tips for a ness newbie?

[DirtyPete]

recently ( whithin the past two weeks, i think) i picked up ness in project m. previously ive mained as link/toon link and peach with kirby and pikachu as alts, but now im trying out ness and samus.

most of the matches ive played and won as ness have been against level nine cpu (nothing to brag about), but i have played with ness against some humans i regularly smash with, and ive won a few of those too. ( i'd say theyre about the same skill level as me, i think. )

currently, i rely on pkfire, pk cross? (neutral b), yo yo, baseball bat, and dash attack. i like to use baseball bat against a pk-fired enemy, or if im feeling lucky ill try to use the bat to edgeguard. which is fun. i use the baseball alot in general, to the point that i figured out on my own that the baseball bat reflects certain projectiles ( like ivysaurs razorblade boomerang attack). when im closer to the middle ill use the neutral b to edgeguard. id say i hit most of the time that i use it for edgeguard if im in the right mindset, and i can hit with it in other situations as well.

are there any strategies that i should add, or things i should stop doing?

please not that im not great with things like wavedashing, i still havent figured that out. im not even sure if i know how to DI.

alternate and off topic question: im really asking this stuff because im planning on attending a tournament for the first time late this month. i wont really have many chances to play with human players besides my younger brother before the tournament, so im wondering , should i stick with my current mains, or can practicing some stuff with my new characters against cpus be adequate enough? also, any things i should keep in mind? ( ie bad character matchups, bad stage mashups)

thanks for any help and constructive criticism

 

[krazyzyko]

Well the bat is more for of a KO move. You should rely more spacing DJC aerials, magnet dash and PK fire. But that's too advanced for a beginner so try to get the basic skills down first.

Yes, wavedash, waveland, shffl, DJC, L-cancel, DI, JC grab, etc.
You'll get the tech skill down pretty fast since you barely play with ppl. So polish your tech skill to the max.

Then rank up your experience by going to tourneys. Make friends, ask for tips, play ppl better than you. And grow with an equal friend so you can support each other's growth.

Good luck!

 

[Psi Sig]

I think you be wary of people that know the Ness match-up and can get out of pk fire., double jump canceling and raising aerials. I also pk fire in the air has no landing lag.

For recovering practice hitting your pt2s at many different angles on both sides of the stage both on and off screen also Raising f-air on to stage is hecka safe.

also I like going for the grab down throw followed by short hop, magnet, aerial.
Also check Awestin, he's generally regarded as the best Ness.

I would also work on dash dancing

Matchups to watchout for
anyone with long disjointed hitboxes(Swords users Marth, Mewtwo)
Zoners (Link T, Link)
Matchups I hate, Charizard, ROB and Ganon(just the guy I play)

My favorite Match up is DK, not sure why its just fun


On DI
http://smashboards.com/threads/a-gu...-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RP3sbS7Dm0


some good Ness articles
http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-unique-movement-options.350716/
http://smashboards.com/threads/how-are-you-using-magnet.334150/
http://smashboards.com/threads/from...ase-and-guide-complete-with-crotchcam.356412/


I hope this wasn't too much and I hope it helps. Some of the other Ness' will most likely be by to help more, I'm still pretty new to the boards but the Ness community is awesome! Glad to see your thinking about Ness :D

 

[HM04]

I found DJC FFL(fast fall l cancel) Nair to be a pretty quick and useful move, you can use it on someone pkFire or out of shield. It's a little tricky at first but once you get the hang of it it's not too bad.

I haven't picked up too much about stages in the time I've played so far, mainly that Yoshi's Story is a pretty crappy one (Shy guys can gimp up-B, middle platform makes aerial PKF harder to land) and that a map like Warioware will let you kill with backthrow disgustingly early

I would recommend toning down the bat a little bit. I was bat happy for a long time after playing some more skilled players they would abuse my misses so badly so now I only use it if I feel like it's guarenteed or I want to take a guess on their techs. I also found down-tilt -> bat a good move but it varies on what % you can land it for sure on each character so I'm not sure if that's something you can just go and practice solo.

 

[Psi Sig]

I like going to bigger stages, Dreamland, Skyworld, (Distant Planet if its legal) Ness has a fantastic recovery so I feel big stages helps us in a big way. Personally I try to strike to PS2 or Smashville, FD for certian MUs( I like platforms) two of my favorite stages to play on. BUT BEWARE OF THE BALLOON ON SMASHVILLE IT CAN F*** UP YOUR RECOVERY!!!
I also try to ban yoshi island those shyguys like smashville but worse -_-
always practice on stages you will be counterpicked to. I also made it a habit to practice my pk thunder going toward the stage, everyone expects you to go out. (If you do this make sure you know what angles you can and can't do)

also this from the stage discussion thread

IMO Ness' best stage bar none is Skyworld. It is both high and wide which helps with our survivability, plats to assist with pkt2 landings, enough room in the center of the stage to allow ness to combo freely, and the top plat allows for uthrow -> tech chase. Also things like fthrow off the side plats can really put certain characters in ideal edgeguard positions for us.
I also like GHZ for it's high ceiling (imo Ness kills horizontally more often than vertically) and short walls, which allow for things like early nair/bair/bthrow kills and the plat that moves in the middle can give ness options with pkt2.
Hopefully when people wake up and realize Distant Planet is a good singles stage now it will be in more rulesets because I think it's a pretty good stage for us. Really like the plat layout.
I think FD is pretty good for us.
Skyloft can be okay for us I think as long as we're not fighting someone with a projectile heavy game like Link.
I used to really love Yoshi's Melee but I have friends that main Ganon/Marth so I've really shied away from it.
Not sure how I feel about WW. I kinda lose on that stage a lot unless I'm playing MK.

I hate Dracs. Too big, plat's always interfere.
I hate FoD. Plats always **** up my djcs and Ness has bad mu's with char's that excel on that stage.
I hate Yoshi's Brawl. Huge plat is annoying and the slant in the middle kinda ****s with our pkf game.
I hate Lylat because it's pretty hard to recover on that stage and I don't see how the slant/plat layout helps us.

 

[Kokomaniac]

One of the things to keep in mind while you're playing people in tourney (especially for the first time) is that to succeed, you don't necessarily have to be technically superior or more skilled, you gotta be smart. Seriously, thinking between matches on what to do, adaptability, and being able to download your opponent are some of the strongest tourney traits you could ever develop. I've lost to players MUCH worse than me in terms of tech skill and capabilities simply because they knew the matchup and they figured out what to do and I didn't. And they deserve full credit for beating my dumb ass lol.

Since everyone threw their two cents about all this other stuff, I thought I'd give you my own little bit of tourney knowledge

 

[Psi Sig]

Yea I did terrible my first tournament, but I went there knowing that only having 2 goals don't get 4 stocked and have fun :D
and if your feeling nervous play a couple of friendlies and talk to some new people (I don't do well around new people so this helped me the most), that really help me shake off the nerves.

 

[Gregg Snow]

Since they completely removed the YYG it's kind of weird to transfer from Melee to PM, in my opinion, so I'm having a rough patch adjusting as well.
Practice combos on computer then get with a buddy at your skill level, the higher the tier in comparison to yours the better.

I practice with a friend who mains Mario and since playing him I've gotten dramatically better at sweet spotting the ledge, since Mario's cape will throw Ness off the ledge.
DDC is also your best friend as well.

My tips are playing around with DDC, combos, and eventually application of wavedashing since Ness needs all the speed he can get.

 

[Psi Sig]

Since they completely removed the YYG it's kind of weird to transfer from Melee to PM, in my opinion, so I'm having a rough patch adjusting as well.

You can pull off the YYG consonantly in match, kudos to you good sir, I still suck at it.
Since you play melee Ness you may want to check this out, I've been playing it for a couple days. its mad fun:
http://smashboards.com/threads/melee-sd-remix-a-new-revision-in-the-works.324620/

 

[Alakaslam]

pK frost, my good man.

He fights using antipodes, is why I also am joining you in the ranks of ness ppl

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Okay, a couple of things:

1. SSBM Advanced How to Play
This video starts from the ground up for Melee Advanced Techniques. If you're unfamiliar with things like DI, L-Cancelling, and Wavedashing, I suggest taking the half-hour to check out this video. I used it waaaaaaaay back in '06 when I was just getting into competitive Smash.

2. Bryonato's Thread
Most of this assumes you're at least passingly familiar with the concepts explained in the video above, but there's some really good stuff here. Props to Bryon for the work he put in.

3. Random Things That New Ness Players Commonly Do Wrong:
-Limit your use of Grounded PK Fire. Aerial PK Fire is generally much safer. Grounded PK Fire should generally be limited to tech chase situations.
-Your second jump is one of the most valuable tools Ness has. Don't throw it away on a poor decision, especially offstage.
-PK Thunder is a very versatile move. Familiarize yourself with it, not only as a recovery move, but also as a mix up/harassment tool.
-This game is very match up dependent. Don't get discouraged if you get beaten badly in an unfamiliar MU.
-Have fun with it. Ness has some extremely frustrating problems, and if you let them get to you, it'll really hurt your learning potential.

Good luck, buddy. Hope that helped a bit.

 

[Mattatari]

Can't go wrong with PK Fire.

Just nail some tech stuff such as wavedashing and DJC and you'll be fine.

Just play smart, and also try to time when/where your opponent will strike.

 

[ShadowShlong]

I think you be wary of people that know the Ness match-up and can get out of pk fire., double jump canceling and raising aerials. I also pk fire in the air has no landing lag.

For recovering practice hitting your pt2s at many different angles on both sides of the stage both on and off screen also Raising f-air on to stage is hecka safe.

also I like going for the grab down throw followed by short hop, magnet, aerial.
Also check Awestin, he's generally regarded as the best Ness.

I would also work on dash dancing

Matchups to watchout for
anyone with long disjointed hitboxes(Swords users Marth, Mewtwo)
Zoners (Link T, Link)
Matchups I hate, Charizard, ROB and Ganon(just the guy I play)

My favorite Match up is DK, not sure why its just fun


On DI
http://smashboards.com/threads/a-gu...-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RP3sbS7Dm0


some good Ness articles
http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-unique-movement-options.350716/
http://smashboards.com/threads/how-are-you-using-magnet.334150/
http://smashboards.com/threads/from...ase-and-guide-complete-with-crotchcam.356412/


I hope this wasn't too much and I hope it helps. Some of the other Ness' will most likely be by to help more, I'm still pretty new to the boards but the Ness community is awesome! Glad to see your thinking about Ness :D

I was reading this and thinking "wow this sounds like my friend Mike and I." -looks at location- Oh. lmao well lookout son, i got a ness now too

 

[Psi Sig]

I was reading this and thinking "wow this sounds like my friend Mike and I." -looks at location- Oh. lmao well lookout son, i got a ness now too

dangit time to get back to work