Replacement100
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
- Messages
- 104
There are many things that come to mind when one thinks of possible problems that Olimar could face - the main causes for concern are this:
Yellow = New!!
Pluck:
How fast can Olimar pluck Pikmin from the ground?
How open is Olimar left when plucking Pikmin?
Does Olimar have a decent move that can be used without Pikmin, that could open up an opportunity to pluck Pikmin?
Will Olimar start the battle with Pikmin?
How does Terrain affect the Pikmin plucked? How will it affect gameplay? (Commander Blitzkrieg)
Could Pikmin Purging (explanation within) become a large part of Olimar's strategy? (willeson)
Pikmin Survival:
How durable are the Pikmin?
What is the 'average number' of Pikmin?
Could they be destroyed as a high-knockback attack is applied to Olimar?
When can they be destroyed?
How will Olimar's percentage affect the durability of the Pikmin and their use?
Can Pikmin attack without direction?
Pikmin Order:
How much lag will this move suffer?
How sensitive is the move (in terms of your speed in pressing the B button)?
How fast will the Pikmin change their order?
Pikmin Throw:
Will the Pikmin hinder the enemy's movement? (Brasil)
How easily could the Pikmin can be knocked off after they are thrown on the enemy? (Goat12000)
Potential Moves:
What would be some features of Olimar's throws, if the Pikmin carried the enemy off as they do in the games? (Smash Ninja and Meta Sonic64)
These are all reasonable concerns - and I will do my best to answer these from a logical point of view. You would assume that Sakurai and his team know how to reasonably make a move usable, and how the properties of moves affect a character's playability - and so this topic could clear your minds a little.
NOTE: This post contains only speculation, and just what I think it logical. I don't really feel like any arguments, so if you do contend a point, please make sure you contend it nicely, and I would also like some logic back from you. I'm cool with discussion, but no silly arguments.
This post also assumes that Olimar is supposed to have a full rack of Pikmin. To put it in simpler terms, it assumes that Sakurai has designed Olimar to function with a full rack of Pikmin. This is evidenced by Olimar's Up+B - as it is weak when not all Pikmin are available. It is assumed that with a full rack of Pikmin, Olimar's Up+B functions similarly to other character's Up+B moves. Another possibility is that it is hard to maintain 6 Pikmin, but 4 can be managed easily - and thus Olimar's Up+B with 4 Pikmin functions similarly to other character's Up+B moves, but having 6 Pikmin makes the move above average is capability.
1. Pluck
1. How fast can Olimar pluck Pikmin from the ground?
Now, pictures aside (though I will comment that it looks rather fast), one would assume that for Olimar to sustain a maximum amount of Pikmin, or at least, a decent amount, he would be able to pluck the Pikmin faster than they could be disposed of. The Pikmin's speed of disposal depends on their ability to attack without direction, the hindrance applied to the opponent through the Pikmin's attacks, and the Pikmin's personal health meter.
I will explain each factor separately.
The Pikmin's ability to attack without direction is a large part of Olimar's ability to Pluck. For example, if when an opponent gets close to Olimar, and Olimar is using an action that doesn't require the service of a Pikmin, if it attacks, Olimar can continue to use that action. If however, a Pikmin must be thrown, the Olimar's safest bet to ensuring safety is to pluck a Pikmin and throw it, or use an attack that doesn't require a Pikmin, that can easily give him the capacity to pluck some Pikmin. Assuming that Olimar's attacks without Pikmin aren't strong enough to incapacitate the opponent enough, throwing a Pikmin would be the logical option (interrupting the plucking).
Now, if a Pikmin is thrown, or it attacks on its own, the Pikmin's ability to hinder the opponent will be a factor in determining Olimar's position to pluck more. If the Pikmin makes the opponent flinch and recover in less time than Olimar can pluck a Pikmin and ready himself for another attack (or have the Pikmin attack the opponent) then the opponent will be able to approach, assuming that it can deal with the Pikmin at hand.
If the Pikmin at hand is weak enough to be dealt with in one attack, or at least with minimal hindrance, then the Olimar is going to have a tough time both Plucking and maintaining his Pikmin as the enemy approaches - thus limiting his ability to fight substantially.
In order for Olimar's Pluck to be usable, he must be able to limit the opponent's approach while he carried out the plucking. In other words, the speed of his Pluck should reflect his capacity to slow his opponent's approach as he plucks. The plucking may also be effortless - as outlined above when explaining the Pikmin's automatic attack options. If Pikmin have to be thrown to stall the opponent, then a great degree of difficulty may be found when trying to execute the Pluck move.
This is within reason however, the Pluck move must still be interruptible, as players will likely need to kill off some Pikmin before they try to knock out the Olimar commanding them. After all the easiest way to kill the Olimar would be to limit his attack and recovery capabilities. This needs to be done while assuring that he cannot pluck easily, or without sacrifice.
An additional idea that could affect the speed of the pluck move is whether the process gets slower as more Pikmin are plucked - thus making 4 or so easy to obtain, while 6 could be difficult. This will be covered in the question about the 'average number' or Pikmin.
2. How open is Olimar left while plucking?
This was outlined above, as the two questions are very related.
3. Does Olimar have a decent move that can be used without Pikmin, that could open up an opportunity to pluck Pikmin?
As said above, some attack must be launched against the opponent to stop them from interrupting the plucking of Pikmin, and this attack must be launched while plucking, or without Pikmin.
If it is launched while plucking, it could be a Pikmin automatically attack an opponent which would be optimal, or it could be Olimar halting his plucking, executing a move, then continuing, such as a Pikmin Throw - this would be difficult (and unlikely, as Smash aims to be user-friendly, even with strange characters).
However, the plucking could be executed after a pre-emptive strike - such as kicking the opponent of the stage and plucking while he recovers. The only problem is that Olimar is apparently weak without the support of Pikmin. If Olimar had a move that did no damage, but had high knockback, or a stunning effect, the move would be perfect. This however, seems unlikely, as the stunning could be used with a full roster of Pikmin for an easy set-up to a kill-shot, and the knockback attack would seem in contrast to Olimar's theme.
Though, if one is implemented, the next problem is that the move would be foreseen at every second by the opponent - after all, an Olimar seems to desperately need Pikmin, and the main way for him to obtain one is through the use of this move. Of course, Olimar could not use the move, and rack up some damage, but at some point, you assume that this move will be used. If the move is easily avoided or canceled, then the move doesn't do it's job. Thus the move would need to be superior to most other moves and maneuvers making it imbalanced (and if not superior to all moves, some characters could be favoured for moves that could counter this move).
The bottom line is, if Olimar has to interrupt pluck to throw Pikmin, then plucking will be annoying and difficult. If he receives a move to disable the opponent which allows him to pluck Pikmin ,then there will most likely be a lot of imbalance involved in these moves, and most mechanics surrounding these moves. For these reasons, it is optimal for the Pikmin to be able to attack automatically, or at least during the pluck move.
4. Will Olimar start the battle with Pikmin?
If Olimar starts a battle with Pikmin, and spawns with Pikmin after death, then it allows him to come into the fray at full strength, and be able to avoid being knocked around as he tried to pluck as the battle opens. This obviously affects the traits of plucking, as it may not be used as often as it would if Pikmin aren't spawned with Olimar. Regardless of how many Pikmin Olimar starts with (above zero), this feature could change his play style immensely. For example, he could throw one of his Pikmin at the opponent, and keep one handy in case he needs to interrupt his plucking.
Another thought it that if Olimar doesn't start with a Pikmin after being knocked out, he could be disadvantaged early in the next stock - particularly if his opponent is still on low percentage. If he needs to pluck while invinsible, then the opponent can easily set up their next barrage and time it for when he loses his invulnerability. However, this also depends on the speed of the pluck. If Olimar can pluck 3 Pikmin and cancel before he becomes vulnerable, then there is no issue involved (albeit he does start with the disadvantage of not being able to attack his opponent properly while he is invulnerable).
This is just something we have to wait and see - but I can see a lot of difficulty in plucking clearing if Olimar starts with even one Pikmin when he spawns.
5. How does Terrain affect the Pikmin plucked? How will it affect gameplay?
(Thanks to Commander Blitzkrieg for the question.)
As most would already know, the Terrain affects the Pikmin that Olimar plucks from it. This initially sounds like a small feature, however, when combined with features of the Pikmin, such as the Red Pikmin's immunity to fire, the tables of a battle can appear to be turned with this one feature. For example, if Bowser's standard special (Fire Breath) turns into a large part of his gameplay, a knowledgeable Olimar could choose a stage with a higher chance of receiving the fire-immune Red Pikmin (a commonly cited speculation is Norfair due to the lava) to counter this. If Bowser's Fire Breath appears to defend him against approaching opponents, and Olimar can deny him of this, he could have the upper hand in each battle (especially due to the fact that Olimar seems to have a potentially fantastic approach game with Pikmin Throw - more about that later.).
Another main point is that Regions may render a stage extremely disadvantageous, or advantageous for Olimar to play.
For example, if a large, flat stage such as the Bridge of Eldin spawned mainly Purple Pikmin, and hardly any White Pikmin (thus limiting an Olimar's ranged capabilities) he may be in a losing position for a whole match. The same could be said for a stage where quick KOs are necessary (such as The Summit), spawning mainly Blue Pikmin, who have poor capabilities outside their power when thrown - and have a more defensive roles. However, the opposites could be apparent, making stages great for Olimar players.
Now, we have covered Norfair, which, due to its fiery surroundings, is assumed to increase the chances of Plucking a Red Pikmin, however certain stages may be in fact, multi-regioned (Let us call the areas where Pikmin have altered chances to be plucked, a region.). If this is the case, then Olimar will be much adaptable to whatever circumstances he faces, depending on his knowledge of the stage (it is assumed that a decent Olimar player will know every region.). If his opponent is on high health, then he may be inclined to pluck more Purple Pikmin, if his opponent is faster than him, perhaps more Yellow Pikmin.
Now, we have the basic run-down of how a multi-regioned stage would greatly aid Olimar to adapt to his opponent, and increase his strategic prowess, but will they be included in Brawl? We can't know for sure. However, we can assess reasons as to why or why not it would be included.
One must first assume, that Olimar's strengths can not be based off the type of Pikmin he plucks - he must be neutral, as to eliminate randomness from impacting his character heavily. Thus, with exceptions, Olimar should be strong on any stage (Each Pikmin should aid him to a fair extent, regardless of type), and the regions should only make him stronger, if he can (or chooses) manipulate them. Then we must imagine how being able to alter his chances of receiving a Pikmin can make him stronger (as it cannot make him weaker). In theory, depending on where various regions are placed, benefits will be high or low. For example, a Red Pikmin in Olimar's spawn area will aid him more than a Blue Pikmin, as the extra offense at the start, would be superior to the Blue Pikmin's defence in this situation. Another possible advantageous region would be Purple Pikmin appearing at a higher rate near a ledge. This could put Olimar into a position where he would be too strong.
However, we would also assume that any player fighting an Olimar would notice patterns in the Plucking, and would assume what strategy the Olimar is about to use, putting the opponent at a mental advantage. For example, if Olimar is plucking White Pikmin (they are light, so it is assumed that they fly father when thrown), then the enemy may deduce that the Olimar will try to range them.
We end with a stalemate, Olimar can gain great benefits, but can be predicted. Obviously, depending on the strategy, and various other factors, one may outweigh the other (for example, it may not matter if the opponent can read Olimar, as they don't have a great counter to the strategy he will be imposing.).
A potential solution to this would be a stage that randomly generates it regions. In a standard match, Olimar would likely not find each region, so he may be given hints, for example, if he obtains a Yellow Pikmin, it may shoot out of the ground sparkling, or when it passes a Yellow region, it may jump up and down.
I believe that Multi-Regioned stages may be a large part of Olimar's game play, and strategy, if it is featured in the game - particularly when it comes to a strategy which could be named Pikmin Purging (more about this below).
6. Could Pikmin Purging become a large part of Olimar's strategy?
(Thanks to willeson for the ideas and explanation.)
The basic premise of this strategy is, when given the chance, removing your unwanted Pikmin, and moving to a specific region to attempt to obtain more of a favoured Pikmin.
The idea of various stages being advantageous and disadvantageous to an Olimar featured above are a great example of how this could work. Let's take the example of the Bride of Eldin - and let's assume that one wants White Pikmin, and wants to purge their Purple Pikmin. Let's also assume that the Olimar can receive a nice flow of these White Pikmin.
Once Olimar knocks his opponent out (it is assumed that good moves for Olimar to use to set up this tactic would be ones that cause Star KOs - as the enemy takes longer to respawn) he can throw out whatever Pikmin he doesn't want, and then proceed to pluck mainly White Pikmin. This could be used at any opportunity the opponent gives you.
The member that spawned this section, Willeson, proposed that an Olimar could also customise his army for a general situation, or at least one which gives Olimar the most capacity to use his vast array of moves, for example, keeping a Purple Pikmin at the front for Smash attacks, with a few Blue Pikmin for recovery, when the situation arises (for they are the most likely to withstand damage). The rest could be Red, Yellow, or White, depending on what is needed.
It is likely that some degree of Purging will be available, yet the degree of purging required for the setup above may be impossible, due to the lack of time that Olimar will have to customise his army. Thus, the Olimar may need to what he can with what he has, which would require a lot of skill. This would likely be the key to being a great Olimar player, not only having the technical skill, but the skill to know the Pikmin, and make every one count. I should note again however (for those who didn't read the above section), that Pikmin will likely all aid the Olimar in any situation, being used in any way - so one would not be at a large loss when they have a White Pikmin in their hand to use a smash attack, it's just being able to effectively micromanage them that is the key.
2. Pikmin Survivability
2. How durable are the Pikmin?
Well, no-one knows yet, but it would be logical if the Pikmin are difficult to destroy - or at least, difficult enough, so Olimar actually gets use out of them. As said, chances are, Olimar can pluck Pikmin faster than they can be wiped out. It is also logical to assume that the Pikmin won't be too easy to destroy, as Olimar relies heavily upon them (especially for recovery). If they were easy to kill, then Sakurai would definitely see weakness in the character, and likewise, the Pikmin have probably been tailored to survive for long enough to be used. They must (logically - remember, this is all speculation) be able to survive an onslaught which sends Olimar far enough off the stage to use his Up+B. The Pikmin's survival during this circumstance is covered in a later section below.
There are also elements added to Olimar which imply that the Pikmin will survive for a reasonable amount of time. The most prominent is the Call/Order function. What would be the use of calling the Pikmin if they were likely to die before they got to the stage where they needed to be called back? What would be the use of ordering them if they were likely only being sent on a zerg rush to their dooms? (Call/Order is covered below as well.)
Why would Olimar be able to own more than one if they were to die as fast as Peach's turnip? Why would they bother following him around instead of being thrown immediately, or just attacking by themselves - both of which would likely be more effective.
The fact that the Pikmin have individual traits also enhance the likelihood of them being able to survive for longer. Sure, Peach's turnips had different faces, but the Pikmin have animations, different models (with flowers, leaves and buds) and other properties that Peach's turnips would have dreamed of. One of these is the Pikmin's likelihood of homing in on the opponent to some degree (as the Yellow Pikmin apparently is easier to 'aim' and has a longer attack range). The amount of coding going into the Pikmin implies that they should be a memorable feature of the game.
The main points here are that the Pikmin's survivability is likely going to be decent, primarily due to Olimar's reliance on them, Olimar's moves regarding them, and the amount of effort that was put into coding them.
2. What is the 'average number' of Pikmin?
Everyone expects that since 6 Pikmin is the maximum, that is the most likely number of Pikmin that an Olimar would have at any one time. The truth is, that could be false. For example, due to plucking mechanics described above, it could be easy to pluck 4 Pikmin, but the last two could be quite hard in comparison. For example, in the time it takes for Olimar to ensure that his opponent is off the stage, and then the time it takes for the opponent to ready themselves to attack, Olimar could have only just finished his 5th Pikmin. While this seems like a bad idea, it could actually improve Olimar's moves. If his moves are tailored to use 4 Pikmin, then it means two things. Firstly, that not as much plucking has to be done to set up these moves, quite self explanatory, but secondly, that Olimar's moves are decent with 4 Pikmin, and then would be fantastic with 6. For example, in most cases, Sakurai could have had the team code Olimar's Up+B move to be substantial with a mere 4 Pikmin. With 6, Olimar should be exemplary!
3. Could the Pikmin be destroyed as a high-knockback attack is applied to Olimar?
The situation was outlined above. A character knocks Olimar off the stage, and manages to take out 3 of the Olimar's Pikmin (we are again assuming that Olimar was coded to have 6 Pikmin most of the time). In this situation, Olimar is left with little capacity to recover (with only half of his tether) and not much of a chance.
This situation could happen, and it could stunt Olimar's abilities in total. The real question that is being asked here is, "Could Olimar's Pikmin be knocked out as the result of an attack on Olimar?"
This could make way for some big problems for Olimar, with various moves (particularly swords) being able to KO him at potentially low percentages. This is another wait and see matter, but more sitations are covered in the section below.
4. When can Pikmin be destroyed?
This ties in with the Pikmin's overall durability. For example, it is expected that Pikmin can be destroyed as they follow Olimar, and it is expected that players that are competing against an Olimar would try to reduce his number of Pikmin, stop him from plucking more, and then knock him off while he has low recovery. The issue however, may be with the Pikmin possibly being destroyed during an attack, due to priority issues. This could limit Olimar's attack options, as the attack could not only be nullified, but Pikmin could be lost, thereby reducing the chances of a successful attack even more.
Also, if Pikmin could be eliminated while being ordered, then it could take the point out of ordering at all, depending on the speed of the order, and Olimar's ability to defend himself and his Pikmin during the transition.
5. How will Olimar's percentage affect the durability of the Pikmin and their use?
There are 3 ways that Olimar's percentage could influence the Pikmin's durability.
The first is an increase in durability as Olimar's percentage increases. This is likely what many fans would hope for, but it is definitely the least likely to be seen. This would give Olimar the possibility of fighting back with more ferocity when on higher percentages, when the game is designed to make the high percentages a counter of feebleness. Nonetheless, this trait would definitely be unique, and put Olimar high in the tiers.
Olimar's percentage not affecting the Pikmin at all would be the most likely of these three effects to be seen. This is balanced, and simple.
Olimar's percentage increasing the feebleness of the Pikmin is extremely unlikely, but could be implemented. This is one of the many factors that could ultimately determine Olimar's fate.
Let's look at it this way - as you attack the Pikmin, you erode at both Olimar's offense (Pikmin fueled attacks) and durability (Pikmin fueled Up+B recovery). This is enough to make any benefits he receives from the Pikmin balanced, because without them, he is weak.
Now, let's factor in what would happen if, as Olimar's percentage increased, the durability of his Pikmin decreased. You would be eroding at his offense and defences at a faster rate, and most likely, the above scenario where 3 Pikmin are terminated as an attack is made on Olimar, would become a certainty. It is unique enough that as you attack him, his offenses get weaker, but this tweak would make the character near useless.
Can Pikmin attack without direction?
This is one of the main questions about Olimar, as this feature could make Olimar very interesting to play.
We have already explained the good sides of the Pikmin being able to attack for themselves, guarding you as you carry out whatever task you need, such as plucking and calling, but there is also a bad side.
Depending on the Pikmin's AI, and your control over them, the Pikmin could interrupt your strategies, and suicide, walking into smash attacks, or even just attacking a ready foe.
This issue could be an interesting one. There are advantages to having the Pikmin able to attack without you (as well as a Minion-Master play style) but in other ways, could be devastating to your game.
3. Pikmin Order:
1. How much lag will this move suffer?
When one thinks about it, this move should not suffer lag, in terms of Olimar carrying out the action. This is of course, because if it does, while the move is being executed, the Pikmin and Olimar will be sitting ducks. Personally, I wouldn't worry about any lag involved with this move, as is should be plaining obvious to the Sakurai and his team that Olimar needs to be fast and flexible during his "setting-up moves".
I would say that the optimal lag involved with this move would be virtually none, or least least one that could be canceled via an aerial. If this was the case, then Olimar could jump over his Pikmin, carry out the move, change them into the order in which he'd like them, and carry out a sex kick on his way down. This would protect his Pikmin at least substantially as they change.
In conclusion, I would assume that it is extremely fast to execute and attack out of. If it wasn't, then the re-ordering would likely be a great chance for the opponent to take out of a few Pikmin, and rack up some damage on Olimar, most likely rendering the function of ordering useless.
2. How sensitive is the move (in terms of your speed in pressing the B button)?
Hopefully, extremely - so that players can hit the button enough times to revamp their order, while not leaving themselves open.
3. How fast will the Pikmin change their order?
This is reflected in the last two questions, the short answer is "fast". As said, if Olimar is left open during these actions, he needs to be able to carry them out quickly and efficiently. A nice possbility for re-ordering, however, is if you can speed up the order by walking. For example, if all of the Pikmin were standing in a line, and you were stationary, one would likely move the the end while the others would move one space up. However, if you were moving forwards, that could be sped up. That could allow Olimar to change quicker, and use more strategy as to which Pikmin he could approach with. This could also be important in mind games, as if the opponent can read the order of your line without difficulty, he could react accordingly to what you're going to attack him with next. In theory, if this move is fast, a skilled Olimar could keep his opponent guessing as to what Pikmin he may be attacking with.
4. Pikmin Throw
1. Will the Pikmin hinder the enemy's movement?
(Thanks to Brasil for questions, ideas and speculation.)
The Pikmin's ability to hinder their foe when thrown will be a major factor in Olimar's strength. We already know that they apply an effect that raises the enemy's percentage steady as they cling to them - already a noble feat - but could they make the enemy's move speed slower? If thrown at a recovering foe, as Brasil (this sections' muse) speculated, could they apply different effects? For example, a Blue Pikmin may hit an opponent like one of Peach's stronger turnips, while a Purple Pikmin may Meteor Spike them to their deaths. A Red or Yellow Pikmin may shock/burn them continuously, hindering their capacity to jump and make it back alive.
Let us cover the Pikmin's capabilities when thrown at a grounded opponent first.
We must assume that if a Pikmin has been thrown at the opponent - then it is still considered one of Olimar's roster of 6, and cannot be used in another attack until called, or shaken off (if they can be, more below).
We can safely say that the move is balanced by weighing up the damage that the Pikmin do, and any other additional effects that they cause, with the fact that they cannot be used again until called. When they are called, these effects are nullified, and the Pikmin return to Olimar, now able to be used in other actions.
So we must measure Olimar's potential with 6 Pikmin at his side, and compare it to the damage which these Pikmin do (plus any effects) if thrown at an opponent. For the equation to be roughly equal, Olimar's capacity with 3 Pikmin, must be balanced with the amount of harm done to the opponent when being hindered by 3 Pikmin. Olimar must be hindered as much as the Pikmin are hindering the opponent, you could say - give or take.
So with the constant damage in effect, could the equation still be balanced with Pikmin hindering the opponent's movement? Most likely not, one could conclude, that is unless there is some other variable in the works - such as the amount of time that the Pikmin spend on the opponent. If they were thrown off extremely quickly, then the enemy might have slowed movement or the like.
Assuming that Olimar was designed to have an average number of Pikmin of 6 at any time, with 3 Pikmin on the opponent, and 3 Pikmin in hand, Olimar could still attack the opponent with decent ferocity (especially on a slowed opponent), which the Pikmin still leech the enemy's health. The Pikmin may have other effects, however - but none too severe.
Now, could thrown Pikmin have different effects on a recovering opponent?
It would not be a far cry for Purple Pikmin to Meteor Smash, or even Spike - in fact, one could count on it. But, could the others hinder recovery? It is hard to be sure. The first fact that needs to be pointed out, is that damage/flinching allows an enemy to use their Up+B again - at least in Melee. This could have changed, and the Pikmin could also have special properties that undermine this.
The next point, is that it is assumed that if you throw a Pikmin at a recovering enemy and they fall, the Pikmin would fall with them. This is unless the Pikmin have some ability to return to the stage when called. In this case, one would assume that the Pikmin wouldn't hinder the recovery much at all, only continue to cause damage - however, if there is a sacrifice involved, then they may be more effective.
Again, this is about balance - if all of an Olimar's Pikmin die as he throws them at the recovering opponent, then they would likely greatly increase the chance of a KO. If they return to him, then it would be imbalanced if they had this effect.
2. How easily could the Pikmin can be knocked off after they are thrown on the enemy?
(Thanks to Goat12000 for the question.)
To answer this question, one would assume that the ease at which the Pikmin can be knocked off is proportionate to how much damage they do. If they are able to be knocked off in 2 seconds, then their damage would likely be very high while they are attached to the opponent - otherwise, the move would have no use. If, however, they take 20 seconds to be knocked off, or they only return to Olimar when he calls, then their damage would be much lower. As the Dojo states that they damage the enemy slowly, you would assume that they stay for a while - or at least hinder the enemy enough to make them worthwhile.
5. Potential Moves
What would be some features of Olimar's throws, if the Pikmin carried the enemy off as they do in the games?
(Thanks to Smash Ninja and Meta Sonic64 for the ideas in this section.)
This is an interesting idea, and could lead to some changes in the way Olimar is played - particularly with his ability to Pluck. While I don't believe that they'd be able to suicide with an enemy as they do this, there is some potential in the move yet. For example, as said, Olimar could Pluck more Pikmin from the ground as they carry out the throws - which would be great for Olimar who may find it hard to perform such an action while the enemy hinders him (for more information about Plucking, see above.). As Smash Ninja stated, Olimar could also attack - functioning somewhat like the Ice Climbers may.
We must, however, again look at how this move could potentially be overpowered.
First of all, if the move is long enough to give Olimar a decent chance to Pluck, and possibly order some of his Pikmin, it may be long enough for him to set up a combo that is too overpowered. However, this would easily be countered by ending the throw once Olimar interferes - or possibly, if a full roster of Pikmin are in effect.
Due to the close reference to the games, and the fact that the Dojo states that Olimar needs Pikmin to do some throws, I believe that this throw will definitely be in the game. Balancing it though, it the problem. Hopefully, it will give Olimar some peace, but still be balanced.
--------
Thanks for reading, I hope I cleared up some topics that may have had some people panicking, and promoted some new ideas about this character, in my opinion, Olimar will be fantastic to play, and I can't wait to see how good he is.
NOTE: This post contains only speculation, and just what I think it logical. I don't really feel like any arguments, so if you do contend a point, please make sure you contend it nicely, and I would also like some logic back from you. I'm cool with discussion, but no silly arguments.
Yellow = New!!
Pluck:
How fast can Olimar pluck Pikmin from the ground?
How open is Olimar left when plucking Pikmin?
Does Olimar have a decent move that can be used without Pikmin, that could open up an opportunity to pluck Pikmin?
Will Olimar start the battle with Pikmin?
How does Terrain affect the Pikmin plucked? How will it affect gameplay? (Commander Blitzkrieg)
Could Pikmin Purging (explanation within) become a large part of Olimar's strategy? (willeson)
Pikmin Survival:
How durable are the Pikmin?
What is the 'average number' of Pikmin?
Could they be destroyed as a high-knockback attack is applied to Olimar?
When can they be destroyed?
How will Olimar's percentage affect the durability of the Pikmin and their use?
Can Pikmin attack without direction?
Pikmin Order:
How much lag will this move suffer?
How sensitive is the move (in terms of your speed in pressing the B button)?
How fast will the Pikmin change their order?
Pikmin Throw:
Will the Pikmin hinder the enemy's movement? (Brasil)
How easily could the Pikmin can be knocked off after they are thrown on the enemy? (Goat12000)
Potential Moves:
What would be some features of Olimar's throws, if the Pikmin carried the enemy off as they do in the games? (Smash Ninja and Meta Sonic64)
These are all reasonable concerns - and I will do my best to answer these from a logical point of view. You would assume that Sakurai and his team know how to reasonably make a move usable, and how the properties of moves affect a character's playability - and so this topic could clear your minds a little.
NOTE: This post contains only speculation, and just what I think it logical. I don't really feel like any arguments, so if you do contend a point, please make sure you contend it nicely, and I would also like some logic back from you. I'm cool with discussion, but no silly arguments.
This post also assumes that Olimar is supposed to have a full rack of Pikmin. To put it in simpler terms, it assumes that Sakurai has designed Olimar to function with a full rack of Pikmin. This is evidenced by Olimar's Up+B - as it is weak when not all Pikmin are available. It is assumed that with a full rack of Pikmin, Olimar's Up+B functions similarly to other character's Up+B moves. Another possibility is that it is hard to maintain 6 Pikmin, but 4 can be managed easily - and thus Olimar's Up+B with 4 Pikmin functions similarly to other character's Up+B moves, but having 6 Pikmin makes the move above average is capability.
1. Pluck
1. How fast can Olimar pluck Pikmin from the ground?
Now, pictures aside (though I will comment that it looks rather fast), one would assume that for Olimar to sustain a maximum amount of Pikmin, or at least, a decent amount, he would be able to pluck the Pikmin faster than they could be disposed of. The Pikmin's speed of disposal depends on their ability to attack without direction, the hindrance applied to the opponent through the Pikmin's attacks, and the Pikmin's personal health meter.
I will explain each factor separately.
The Pikmin's ability to attack without direction is a large part of Olimar's ability to Pluck. For example, if when an opponent gets close to Olimar, and Olimar is using an action that doesn't require the service of a Pikmin, if it attacks, Olimar can continue to use that action. If however, a Pikmin must be thrown, the Olimar's safest bet to ensuring safety is to pluck a Pikmin and throw it, or use an attack that doesn't require a Pikmin, that can easily give him the capacity to pluck some Pikmin. Assuming that Olimar's attacks without Pikmin aren't strong enough to incapacitate the opponent enough, throwing a Pikmin would be the logical option (interrupting the plucking).
Now, if a Pikmin is thrown, or it attacks on its own, the Pikmin's ability to hinder the opponent will be a factor in determining Olimar's position to pluck more. If the Pikmin makes the opponent flinch and recover in less time than Olimar can pluck a Pikmin and ready himself for another attack (or have the Pikmin attack the opponent) then the opponent will be able to approach, assuming that it can deal with the Pikmin at hand.
If the Pikmin at hand is weak enough to be dealt with in one attack, or at least with minimal hindrance, then the Olimar is going to have a tough time both Plucking and maintaining his Pikmin as the enemy approaches - thus limiting his ability to fight substantially.
In order for Olimar's Pluck to be usable, he must be able to limit the opponent's approach while he carried out the plucking. In other words, the speed of his Pluck should reflect his capacity to slow his opponent's approach as he plucks. The plucking may also be effortless - as outlined above when explaining the Pikmin's automatic attack options. If Pikmin have to be thrown to stall the opponent, then a great degree of difficulty may be found when trying to execute the Pluck move.
This is within reason however, the Pluck move must still be interruptible, as players will likely need to kill off some Pikmin before they try to knock out the Olimar commanding them. After all the easiest way to kill the Olimar would be to limit his attack and recovery capabilities. This needs to be done while assuring that he cannot pluck easily, or without sacrifice.
An additional idea that could affect the speed of the pluck move is whether the process gets slower as more Pikmin are plucked - thus making 4 or so easy to obtain, while 6 could be difficult. This will be covered in the question about the 'average number' or Pikmin.
2. How open is Olimar left while plucking?
This was outlined above, as the two questions are very related.
3. Does Olimar have a decent move that can be used without Pikmin, that could open up an opportunity to pluck Pikmin?
As said above, some attack must be launched against the opponent to stop them from interrupting the plucking of Pikmin, and this attack must be launched while plucking, or without Pikmin.
If it is launched while plucking, it could be a Pikmin automatically attack an opponent which would be optimal, or it could be Olimar halting his plucking, executing a move, then continuing, such as a Pikmin Throw - this would be difficult (and unlikely, as Smash aims to be user-friendly, even with strange characters).
However, the plucking could be executed after a pre-emptive strike - such as kicking the opponent of the stage and plucking while he recovers. The only problem is that Olimar is apparently weak without the support of Pikmin. If Olimar had a move that did no damage, but had high knockback, or a stunning effect, the move would be perfect. This however, seems unlikely, as the stunning could be used with a full roster of Pikmin for an easy set-up to a kill-shot, and the knockback attack would seem in contrast to Olimar's theme.
Though, if one is implemented, the next problem is that the move would be foreseen at every second by the opponent - after all, an Olimar seems to desperately need Pikmin, and the main way for him to obtain one is through the use of this move. Of course, Olimar could not use the move, and rack up some damage, but at some point, you assume that this move will be used. If the move is easily avoided or canceled, then the move doesn't do it's job. Thus the move would need to be superior to most other moves and maneuvers making it imbalanced (and if not superior to all moves, some characters could be favoured for moves that could counter this move).
The bottom line is, if Olimar has to interrupt pluck to throw Pikmin, then plucking will be annoying and difficult. If he receives a move to disable the opponent which allows him to pluck Pikmin ,then there will most likely be a lot of imbalance involved in these moves, and most mechanics surrounding these moves. For these reasons, it is optimal for the Pikmin to be able to attack automatically, or at least during the pluck move.
4. Will Olimar start the battle with Pikmin?
If Olimar starts a battle with Pikmin, and spawns with Pikmin after death, then it allows him to come into the fray at full strength, and be able to avoid being knocked around as he tried to pluck as the battle opens. This obviously affects the traits of plucking, as it may not be used as often as it would if Pikmin aren't spawned with Olimar. Regardless of how many Pikmin Olimar starts with (above zero), this feature could change his play style immensely. For example, he could throw one of his Pikmin at the opponent, and keep one handy in case he needs to interrupt his plucking.
Another thought it that if Olimar doesn't start with a Pikmin after being knocked out, he could be disadvantaged early in the next stock - particularly if his opponent is still on low percentage. If he needs to pluck while invinsible, then the opponent can easily set up their next barrage and time it for when he loses his invulnerability. However, this also depends on the speed of the pluck. If Olimar can pluck 3 Pikmin and cancel before he becomes vulnerable, then there is no issue involved (albeit he does start with the disadvantage of not being able to attack his opponent properly while he is invulnerable).
This is just something we have to wait and see - but I can see a lot of difficulty in plucking clearing if Olimar starts with even one Pikmin when he spawns.
5. How does Terrain affect the Pikmin plucked? How will it affect gameplay?
(Thanks to Commander Blitzkrieg for the question.)
As most would already know, the Terrain affects the Pikmin that Olimar plucks from it. This initially sounds like a small feature, however, when combined with features of the Pikmin, such as the Red Pikmin's immunity to fire, the tables of a battle can appear to be turned with this one feature. For example, if Bowser's standard special (Fire Breath) turns into a large part of his gameplay, a knowledgeable Olimar could choose a stage with a higher chance of receiving the fire-immune Red Pikmin (a commonly cited speculation is Norfair due to the lava) to counter this. If Bowser's Fire Breath appears to defend him against approaching opponents, and Olimar can deny him of this, he could have the upper hand in each battle (especially due to the fact that Olimar seems to have a potentially fantastic approach game with Pikmin Throw - more about that later.).
Another main point is that Regions may render a stage extremely disadvantageous, or advantageous for Olimar to play.
For example, if a large, flat stage such as the Bridge of Eldin spawned mainly Purple Pikmin, and hardly any White Pikmin (thus limiting an Olimar's ranged capabilities) he may be in a losing position for a whole match. The same could be said for a stage where quick KOs are necessary (such as The Summit), spawning mainly Blue Pikmin, who have poor capabilities outside their power when thrown - and have a more defensive roles. However, the opposites could be apparent, making stages great for Olimar players.
Now, we have covered Norfair, which, due to its fiery surroundings, is assumed to increase the chances of Plucking a Red Pikmin, however certain stages may be in fact, multi-regioned (Let us call the areas where Pikmin have altered chances to be plucked, a region.). If this is the case, then Olimar will be much adaptable to whatever circumstances he faces, depending on his knowledge of the stage (it is assumed that a decent Olimar player will know every region.). If his opponent is on high health, then he may be inclined to pluck more Purple Pikmin, if his opponent is faster than him, perhaps more Yellow Pikmin.
Now, we have the basic run-down of how a multi-regioned stage would greatly aid Olimar to adapt to his opponent, and increase his strategic prowess, but will they be included in Brawl? We can't know for sure. However, we can assess reasons as to why or why not it would be included.
One must first assume, that Olimar's strengths can not be based off the type of Pikmin he plucks - he must be neutral, as to eliminate randomness from impacting his character heavily. Thus, with exceptions, Olimar should be strong on any stage (Each Pikmin should aid him to a fair extent, regardless of type), and the regions should only make him stronger, if he can (or chooses) manipulate them. Then we must imagine how being able to alter his chances of receiving a Pikmin can make him stronger (as it cannot make him weaker). In theory, depending on where various regions are placed, benefits will be high or low. For example, a Red Pikmin in Olimar's spawn area will aid him more than a Blue Pikmin, as the extra offense at the start, would be superior to the Blue Pikmin's defence in this situation. Another possible advantageous region would be Purple Pikmin appearing at a higher rate near a ledge. This could put Olimar into a position where he would be too strong.
However, we would also assume that any player fighting an Olimar would notice patterns in the Plucking, and would assume what strategy the Olimar is about to use, putting the opponent at a mental advantage. For example, if Olimar is plucking White Pikmin (they are light, so it is assumed that they fly father when thrown), then the enemy may deduce that the Olimar will try to range them.
We end with a stalemate, Olimar can gain great benefits, but can be predicted. Obviously, depending on the strategy, and various other factors, one may outweigh the other (for example, it may not matter if the opponent can read Olimar, as they don't have a great counter to the strategy he will be imposing.).
A potential solution to this would be a stage that randomly generates it regions. In a standard match, Olimar would likely not find each region, so he may be given hints, for example, if he obtains a Yellow Pikmin, it may shoot out of the ground sparkling, or when it passes a Yellow region, it may jump up and down.
I believe that Multi-Regioned stages may be a large part of Olimar's game play, and strategy, if it is featured in the game - particularly when it comes to a strategy which could be named Pikmin Purging (more about this below).
6. Could Pikmin Purging become a large part of Olimar's strategy?
(Thanks to willeson for the ideas and explanation.)
The basic premise of this strategy is, when given the chance, removing your unwanted Pikmin, and moving to a specific region to attempt to obtain more of a favoured Pikmin.
The idea of various stages being advantageous and disadvantageous to an Olimar featured above are a great example of how this could work. Let's take the example of the Bride of Eldin - and let's assume that one wants White Pikmin, and wants to purge their Purple Pikmin. Let's also assume that the Olimar can receive a nice flow of these White Pikmin.
Once Olimar knocks his opponent out (it is assumed that good moves for Olimar to use to set up this tactic would be ones that cause Star KOs - as the enemy takes longer to respawn) he can throw out whatever Pikmin he doesn't want, and then proceed to pluck mainly White Pikmin. This could be used at any opportunity the opponent gives you.
The member that spawned this section, Willeson, proposed that an Olimar could also customise his army for a general situation, or at least one which gives Olimar the most capacity to use his vast array of moves, for example, keeping a Purple Pikmin at the front for Smash attacks, with a few Blue Pikmin for recovery, when the situation arises (for they are the most likely to withstand damage). The rest could be Red, Yellow, or White, depending on what is needed.
It is likely that some degree of Purging will be available, yet the degree of purging required for the setup above may be impossible, due to the lack of time that Olimar will have to customise his army. Thus, the Olimar may need to what he can with what he has, which would require a lot of skill. This would likely be the key to being a great Olimar player, not only having the technical skill, but the skill to know the Pikmin, and make every one count. I should note again however (for those who didn't read the above section), that Pikmin will likely all aid the Olimar in any situation, being used in any way - so one would not be at a large loss when they have a White Pikmin in their hand to use a smash attack, it's just being able to effectively micromanage them that is the key.
2. Pikmin Survivability
2. How durable are the Pikmin?
Well, no-one knows yet, but it would be logical if the Pikmin are difficult to destroy - or at least, difficult enough, so Olimar actually gets use out of them. As said, chances are, Olimar can pluck Pikmin faster than they can be wiped out. It is also logical to assume that the Pikmin won't be too easy to destroy, as Olimar relies heavily upon them (especially for recovery). If they were easy to kill, then Sakurai would definitely see weakness in the character, and likewise, the Pikmin have probably been tailored to survive for long enough to be used. They must (logically - remember, this is all speculation) be able to survive an onslaught which sends Olimar far enough off the stage to use his Up+B. The Pikmin's survival during this circumstance is covered in a later section below.
There are also elements added to Olimar which imply that the Pikmin will survive for a reasonable amount of time. The most prominent is the Call/Order function. What would be the use of calling the Pikmin if they were likely to die before they got to the stage where they needed to be called back? What would be the use of ordering them if they were likely only being sent on a zerg rush to their dooms? (Call/Order is covered below as well.)
Why would Olimar be able to own more than one if they were to die as fast as Peach's turnip? Why would they bother following him around instead of being thrown immediately, or just attacking by themselves - both of which would likely be more effective.
The fact that the Pikmin have individual traits also enhance the likelihood of them being able to survive for longer. Sure, Peach's turnips had different faces, but the Pikmin have animations, different models (with flowers, leaves and buds) and other properties that Peach's turnips would have dreamed of. One of these is the Pikmin's likelihood of homing in on the opponent to some degree (as the Yellow Pikmin apparently is easier to 'aim' and has a longer attack range). The amount of coding going into the Pikmin implies that they should be a memorable feature of the game.
The main points here are that the Pikmin's survivability is likely going to be decent, primarily due to Olimar's reliance on them, Olimar's moves regarding them, and the amount of effort that was put into coding them.
2. What is the 'average number' of Pikmin?
Everyone expects that since 6 Pikmin is the maximum, that is the most likely number of Pikmin that an Olimar would have at any one time. The truth is, that could be false. For example, due to plucking mechanics described above, it could be easy to pluck 4 Pikmin, but the last two could be quite hard in comparison. For example, in the time it takes for Olimar to ensure that his opponent is off the stage, and then the time it takes for the opponent to ready themselves to attack, Olimar could have only just finished his 5th Pikmin. While this seems like a bad idea, it could actually improve Olimar's moves. If his moves are tailored to use 4 Pikmin, then it means two things. Firstly, that not as much plucking has to be done to set up these moves, quite self explanatory, but secondly, that Olimar's moves are decent with 4 Pikmin, and then would be fantastic with 6. For example, in most cases, Sakurai could have had the team code Olimar's Up+B move to be substantial with a mere 4 Pikmin. With 6, Olimar should be exemplary!
3. Could the Pikmin be destroyed as a high-knockback attack is applied to Olimar?
The situation was outlined above. A character knocks Olimar off the stage, and manages to take out 3 of the Olimar's Pikmin (we are again assuming that Olimar was coded to have 6 Pikmin most of the time). In this situation, Olimar is left with little capacity to recover (with only half of his tether) and not much of a chance.
This situation could happen, and it could stunt Olimar's abilities in total. The real question that is being asked here is, "Could Olimar's Pikmin be knocked out as the result of an attack on Olimar?"
This could make way for some big problems for Olimar, with various moves (particularly swords) being able to KO him at potentially low percentages. This is another wait and see matter, but more sitations are covered in the section below.
4. When can Pikmin be destroyed?
This ties in with the Pikmin's overall durability. For example, it is expected that Pikmin can be destroyed as they follow Olimar, and it is expected that players that are competing against an Olimar would try to reduce his number of Pikmin, stop him from plucking more, and then knock him off while he has low recovery. The issue however, may be with the Pikmin possibly being destroyed during an attack, due to priority issues. This could limit Olimar's attack options, as the attack could not only be nullified, but Pikmin could be lost, thereby reducing the chances of a successful attack even more.
Also, if Pikmin could be eliminated while being ordered, then it could take the point out of ordering at all, depending on the speed of the order, and Olimar's ability to defend himself and his Pikmin during the transition.
5. How will Olimar's percentage affect the durability of the Pikmin and their use?
There are 3 ways that Olimar's percentage could influence the Pikmin's durability.
The first is an increase in durability as Olimar's percentage increases. This is likely what many fans would hope for, but it is definitely the least likely to be seen. This would give Olimar the possibility of fighting back with more ferocity when on higher percentages, when the game is designed to make the high percentages a counter of feebleness. Nonetheless, this trait would definitely be unique, and put Olimar high in the tiers.
Olimar's percentage not affecting the Pikmin at all would be the most likely of these three effects to be seen. This is balanced, and simple.
Olimar's percentage increasing the feebleness of the Pikmin is extremely unlikely, but could be implemented. This is one of the many factors that could ultimately determine Olimar's fate.
Let's look at it this way - as you attack the Pikmin, you erode at both Olimar's offense (Pikmin fueled attacks) and durability (Pikmin fueled Up+B recovery). This is enough to make any benefits he receives from the Pikmin balanced, because without them, he is weak.
Now, let's factor in what would happen if, as Olimar's percentage increased, the durability of his Pikmin decreased. You would be eroding at his offense and defences at a faster rate, and most likely, the above scenario where 3 Pikmin are terminated as an attack is made on Olimar, would become a certainty. It is unique enough that as you attack him, his offenses get weaker, but this tweak would make the character near useless.
Can Pikmin attack without direction?
This is one of the main questions about Olimar, as this feature could make Olimar very interesting to play.
We have already explained the good sides of the Pikmin being able to attack for themselves, guarding you as you carry out whatever task you need, such as plucking and calling, but there is also a bad side.
Depending on the Pikmin's AI, and your control over them, the Pikmin could interrupt your strategies, and suicide, walking into smash attacks, or even just attacking a ready foe.
This issue could be an interesting one. There are advantages to having the Pikmin able to attack without you (as well as a Minion-Master play style) but in other ways, could be devastating to your game.
3. Pikmin Order:
1. How much lag will this move suffer?
When one thinks about it, this move should not suffer lag, in terms of Olimar carrying out the action. This is of course, because if it does, while the move is being executed, the Pikmin and Olimar will be sitting ducks. Personally, I wouldn't worry about any lag involved with this move, as is should be plaining obvious to the Sakurai and his team that Olimar needs to be fast and flexible during his "setting-up moves".
I would say that the optimal lag involved with this move would be virtually none, or least least one that could be canceled via an aerial. If this was the case, then Olimar could jump over his Pikmin, carry out the move, change them into the order in which he'd like them, and carry out a sex kick on his way down. This would protect his Pikmin at least substantially as they change.
In conclusion, I would assume that it is extremely fast to execute and attack out of. If it wasn't, then the re-ordering would likely be a great chance for the opponent to take out of a few Pikmin, and rack up some damage on Olimar, most likely rendering the function of ordering useless.
2. How sensitive is the move (in terms of your speed in pressing the B button)?
Hopefully, extremely - so that players can hit the button enough times to revamp their order, while not leaving themselves open.
3. How fast will the Pikmin change their order?
This is reflected in the last two questions, the short answer is "fast". As said, if Olimar is left open during these actions, he needs to be able to carry them out quickly and efficiently. A nice possbility for re-ordering, however, is if you can speed up the order by walking. For example, if all of the Pikmin were standing in a line, and you were stationary, one would likely move the the end while the others would move one space up. However, if you were moving forwards, that could be sped up. That could allow Olimar to change quicker, and use more strategy as to which Pikmin he could approach with. This could also be important in mind games, as if the opponent can read the order of your line without difficulty, he could react accordingly to what you're going to attack him with next. In theory, if this move is fast, a skilled Olimar could keep his opponent guessing as to what Pikmin he may be attacking with.
4. Pikmin Throw
1. Will the Pikmin hinder the enemy's movement?
(Thanks to Brasil for questions, ideas and speculation.)
The Pikmin's ability to hinder their foe when thrown will be a major factor in Olimar's strength. We already know that they apply an effect that raises the enemy's percentage steady as they cling to them - already a noble feat - but could they make the enemy's move speed slower? If thrown at a recovering foe, as Brasil (this sections' muse) speculated, could they apply different effects? For example, a Blue Pikmin may hit an opponent like one of Peach's stronger turnips, while a Purple Pikmin may Meteor Spike them to their deaths. A Red or Yellow Pikmin may shock/burn them continuously, hindering their capacity to jump and make it back alive.
Let us cover the Pikmin's capabilities when thrown at a grounded opponent first.
We must assume that if a Pikmin has been thrown at the opponent - then it is still considered one of Olimar's roster of 6, and cannot be used in another attack until called, or shaken off (if they can be, more below).
We can safely say that the move is balanced by weighing up the damage that the Pikmin do, and any other additional effects that they cause, with the fact that they cannot be used again until called. When they are called, these effects are nullified, and the Pikmin return to Olimar, now able to be used in other actions.
So we must measure Olimar's potential with 6 Pikmin at his side, and compare it to the damage which these Pikmin do (plus any effects) if thrown at an opponent. For the equation to be roughly equal, Olimar's capacity with 3 Pikmin, must be balanced with the amount of harm done to the opponent when being hindered by 3 Pikmin. Olimar must be hindered as much as the Pikmin are hindering the opponent, you could say - give or take.
So with the constant damage in effect, could the equation still be balanced with Pikmin hindering the opponent's movement? Most likely not, one could conclude, that is unless there is some other variable in the works - such as the amount of time that the Pikmin spend on the opponent. If they were thrown off extremely quickly, then the enemy might have slowed movement or the like.
Assuming that Olimar was designed to have an average number of Pikmin of 6 at any time, with 3 Pikmin on the opponent, and 3 Pikmin in hand, Olimar could still attack the opponent with decent ferocity (especially on a slowed opponent), which the Pikmin still leech the enemy's health. The Pikmin may have other effects, however - but none too severe.
Now, could thrown Pikmin have different effects on a recovering opponent?
It would not be a far cry for Purple Pikmin to Meteor Smash, or even Spike - in fact, one could count on it. But, could the others hinder recovery? It is hard to be sure. The first fact that needs to be pointed out, is that damage/flinching allows an enemy to use their Up+B again - at least in Melee. This could have changed, and the Pikmin could also have special properties that undermine this.
The next point, is that it is assumed that if you throw a Pikmin at a recovering enemy and they fall, the Pikmin would fall with them. This is unless the Pikmin have some ability to return to the stage when called. In this case, one would assume that the Pikmin wouldn't hinder the recovery much at all, only continue to cause damage - however, if there is a sacrifice involved, then they may be more effective.
Again, this is about balance - if all of an Olimar's Pikmin die as he throws them at the recovering opponent, then they would likely greatly increase the chance of a KO. If they return to him, then it would be imbalanced if they had this effect.
2. How easily could the Pikmin can be knocked off after they are thrown on the enemy?
(Thanks to Goat12000 for the question.)
To answer this question, one would assume that the ease at which the Pikmin can be knocked off is proportionate to how much damage they do. If they are able to be knocked off in 2 seconds, then their damage would likely be very high while they are attached to the opponent - otherwise, the move would have no use. If, however, they take 20 seconds to be knocked off, or they only return to Olimar when he calls, then their damage would be much lower. As the Dojo states that they damage the enemy slowly, you would assume that they stay for a while - or at least hinder the enemy enough to make them worthwhile.
5. Potential Moves
What would be some features of Olimar's throws, if the Pikmin carried the enemy off as they do in the games?
(Thanks to Smash Ninja and Meta Sonic64 for the ideas in this section.)
This is an interesting idea, and could lead to some changes in the way Olimar is played - particularly with his ability to Pluck. While I don't believe that they'd be able to suicide with an enemy as they do this, there is some potential in the move yet. For example, as said, Olimar could Pluck more Pikmin from the ground as they carry out the throws - which would be great for Olimar who may find it hard to perform such an action while the enemy hinders him (for more information about Plucking, see above.). As Smash Ninja stated, Olimar could also attack - functioning somewhat like the Ice Climbers may.
We must, however, again look at how this move could potentially be overpowered.
First of all, if the move is long enough to give Olimar a decent chance to Pluck, and possibly order some of his Pikmin, it may be long enough for him to set up a combo that is too overpowered. However, this would easily be countered by ending the throw once Olimar interferes - or possibly, if a full roster of Pikmin are in effect.
Due to the close reference to the games, and the fact that the Dojo states that Olimar needs Pikmin to do some throws, I believe that this throw will definitely be in the game. Balancing it though, it the problem. Hopefully, it will give Olimar some peace, but still be balanced.
--------
Thanks for reading, I hope I cleared up some topics that may have had some people panicking, and promoted some new ideas about this character, in my opinion, Olimar will be fantastic to play, and I can't wait to see how good he is.
NOTE: This post contains only speculation, and just what I think it logical. I don't really feel like any arguments, so if you do contend a point, please make sure you contend it nicely, and I would also like some logic back from you. I'm cool with discussion, but no silly arguments.
