Time for a new tier list?

[Thegopher]

What do you guys think? After seeing aMSa take 5th at apex and some other shenanigans take place I think some characters need to be raised and lowered.

 

[AirFair]

Well, since the last one was made in 2013, it's not a bad idea.

 

[Captain Zack]

 

[Altea77]

Roy is waaaayyy too low on that tier list. I know he's bad, but he's not second worst for god's sake. Really though. Below Pichu? Wow. I would put him somewhere around Game and Watch.

 

[AirFair]

Yeah I kind of disagree with a few of Hax's placement choices. I think we should do a community one like 2 years ago.

 

[Mixsul]

Couldn't agree more. If aMSa keeps doing what hes doing, Yoshi is going to fly through the charts.

 

[Kerokuu Kappa]

I agree. We need another tier list.

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

lol this is probably the first tier list i've agreed with

/samusmain

 

[Spak]

I know Hax hates Falcon, but he should be higher than that... Also, I don't think Shiek should be lower than Jiggs. I agree with Pikachu being moved up, though.

 

[anikom15]

Yeah the tier list is out of date; needs update badly.

 

[RoosterHelmet]

The meta's definitely evolved a lot since the current tier list. Yoshi's too low, and Doc is too high, among other things.

 

[dguy6789]

Roy is waaaayyy too low on that tier list. I know he's bad, but he's not second worst for god's sake. Really though. Below Pichu? Wow. I would put him somewhere around Game and Watch.

Roy has the single worst recovery in the entire game. That's the largest contributor to him being near the bottom.

 

[AirFair]

Yeah, Sheik, Falcon, Pikachu, Doc, and Yoshi are out of place lol

 

[Crawfiish]

Samus is so low on the tier list, Doc and Gdorf are a bit too high, Luigi and Yoshi also need to be raised, and I think most people would put Marth above Shiek in our current 20XX metagame.

 

[tauKhan]

Yeah, Sheik, Falcon, Pikachu, Doc, and Yoshi are out of place lol

Yoshi is on the correct place on the hax's list imo. Except he isn't viable when players figure out what to do against him.

 

[gmBottles]

I think that Doctor Mario and Roy are overrated in general. Doc is good, but I think he should be at least a couple places down. Roy should be much lower I think, his range and recovery are just so bad, and we already have Marth. Maybe I'm just salty that I can't play Roy. Regardless, I think Yoshi could be higher as well, but not by much. After seeing Hugs' Samus in GFs, I've been expecting Samus to move up. I think that the bottom tiers should not change, except that Pichu and Kirby should swap places.

 

[AirFair]

Yeah Roy is kind of overrated. Doc I don't know about. Samus is definitely moving up tho

 

[JKJ]

Roy has the single worst recovery in the entire game. That's the largest contributor to him being near the bottom.

I mean, I think that's blatantly untrue. Here's my ranking of the bottom 6 recoveries from worst to best.

26: Ness
-every character can jump out and get hit by the Up-B and it is neutralized. GG. Also it's slow, hard to aim, and bounces off walls.
25: Kirby
-has a lot of jumps, but no aerial mobility, and he can't do anything about any attempts to edgeguard except swallowcide.
24: Falcon
23: Ganondorf
22: DK
21: Roy
-Roy's recovery is pretty difficult to edgeguard given its nuts hitboxes. He can actually go pretty far with side-b, too.

 

[pershona]

Yeah, its really outdated,Pika and Yoshi (a B tier character just doesn't get into the top 6) deserve to be higher. And there are like no Doc players anymore so he should probably go down a few places.

 

[Massive]

I like the way the tiers in the 2013 community list are organized, although I honestly think hax's is more accurate.

The tier list is an aggregate of knowledgeable and or skilled players' opinions about the current meta, despite it being fair, it is still not infallible. I feel like it loses accuracy by oversimplifying the complex relationships created by character match-ups by enforcing an order based solely on votes.

I am a strong supporter the idea that future tier lists should remove the numeric ranking of the characters though. They would still be in whatever tier they're voted into, but giving them a rank from 1-26 is not entirely accurate to the situation of the game.

 

[AJawesome07]

I am a strong supporter the idea that future tier lists should remove the numeric ranking of the characters though.

I completely agree. I've never considered myself "anti-tier", but I've always thought that the ordered list system was broken, and gives off dangerous signals about the metagame. If the new tier list grouped the characters in terms of general viability, and general viability only, I think it would encourage more character diversity.

 

[RoosterHelmet]

I like the way the tiers in the 2013 community list are organized, although I honestly think hax's is more accurate.

The tier list is an aggregate of knowledgeable and or skilled players' opinions about the current meta, despite it being fair, it is still not infallible. I feel like it loses accuracy by oversimplifying the complex relationships created by character match-ups by enforcing an order based solely on votes.

I am a strong supporter the idea that future tier lists should remove the numeric ranking of the characters though. They would still be in whatever tier they're voted into, but giving them a rank from 1-26 is not entirely accurate to the situation of the game.

Agreed. It kind of encourages the "Fox Only No Items Final Destination stereotype, and I pretty much consider characters in a given tier to be on almost equal footing with one another, anyways.

 

[Ringedge]

I think this same topic gets brought up every month or so, along with adding more stages. A new tier list would be nice though, it's been a while and the meta has changed a good bit.

 

[Altea77]

Roy has the single worst recovery in the entire game. That's the largest contributor to him being near the bottom.

His recovery is not the worst in the entire game. It's bad, but definitely not the worst. Plus side b is also an option. And believe me, I know the reasons why he's bad. But second to worst is just innaccurate. There is absolutely no way Pichu and a couple others are above him.

I think that Doctor Mario and Roy are overrated in general. Doc is good, but I think he should be at least a couple places down. Roy should be much lower I think, his range and recovery are just so bad, and we already have Marth. Maybe I'm just salty that I can't play Roy. Regardless, I think Yoshi could be higher as well, but not by much. After seeing Hugs' Samus in GFs, I've been expecting Samus to move up. I think that the bottom tiers should not change, except that Pichu and Kirby should swap places.

Having Marth in the game has nothing to do with Roy's placement. Roy isn't really overrated at all. He's like 20th in the official tier list and second to worst on the one above. His official spot around 20 is the most accurate. While his recovery is bad, it's not the worst and while he has no air game, he is fast on the ground and has a great counter, great smash attacks, and a powerful flare blade (which his d tilt can lead right into) all with amazing kill power and quick speeds. That alone makes him higher than most of the bottom bottom tiers like Pichu, Kirby, Bowser, Ness, and Mewtwo.

 

[AirFair]

Maybe we should use a Point system instead so we don't have numerical ranks?

 

[The Prince L]

Peach 4th ? Sheik 6th ? SAMUS 8TH ?

Except that I think the tier list is correct. But for Falcon, I don't really think he's 10th, that's debatable.

 

[dan smith]

i'll be the nth person to say, yeah, there should be a new tier list. amsa alone makes the current list looks a bit silly. lots of other people have raised the several other common complaints. hax list isn't terrible but i wouldn't say i flat-out agree with it.

revising stage legality also sounds like a good idea but unfortunately i think the options are pretty limited. the only pracitcal way to change or expand the list would be to allow counterpick stages to be dependent on character selection I.E. X-stage is pickable but not if either player is playing Y-character.

(i do miss mute city though)

 

[Ringedge]

Peach 4th ? Sheik 6th ? SAMUS 8TH ?

Except that I think the tier list is correct. But for Falcon, I don't really think he's 10th, that's debatable.

Peach and Sheik really should switch places, but what's wrong with Samus being 8th? Samus players have been getting better and better placings in the last year or so like Plup getting 9th at a bunch of events and 5th at Paragon, Duck getting 3rd at Fight Pitt V, The Come Up, and Sweet Prologue, and HugS getting decent placings too, including getting second at Sweet Prologue.

 

[EddyBearr]

A tier list coming out right now would be highly reactionary, with people strongly over-rating Pikachu and Yoshi and under-rating Doc and Mario. Similarly, it'd be a poor time right now because it looks like a major shift in the meta is in the works right now and we have no idea how this will pan out. There also appears to be whispers of banning PS which might have significant metagame implications.

I would agree to a new tier list after EVO, as I think EVO will be a proving grounds for all the whispers happening atm.

 

[jonnobigz]

I have always been one to talk crap about Doc, but I really have to eat my words. Anybody in norcal knows of smoke2pesos, who is an incredible Doc main. I've also practiced with Bob$ a couple times (he's way out of practice but still amazing) and Doc DOES have a lot he can do. Surprising movement options and very solid spacing and combos.

I still think he's too high, but he shouldn't drop more than 1 or 2 spots imo. We just don't see enough good Docs lately, so we forget how good he can be played.

 

[Spak]

Roy has the single worst recovery in the entire game. That's the largest contributor to him being near the bottom.

Actually, reverse Up-B with Roy is one of the best rest punishes in the game. It's a OHKO against Jiggs on a lot of the neutral stages.

 

[anikom15]

Is Yoshi actually good though?

 

[gmBottles]

Is Yoshi actually good though?

Nah, but he absolutely has potential to be a serious threat.

 

[Vorde]

I think there should be a new tier list, mainly where luigi, yoshi, and samus are listed as viable characters.

 

[Snowbird]

I like the one that m2k posted last year quite a bit

"My Tier list for melee singles: 1) Falco 2) Fox/Puff 4) Sheik 5) Marth 6) ICs/Peach 8) C.Falcon 9) Doc 10) Samus/Pikachu 12) Luigi? 13) Mario 14) Ganon 15) Yoshi

everyone else is kind of garbage imo

not sure if I'm EXACTLY right but that is at least VERY close to what I think at least."

 

[Quillion]

How about we just destroy the tier list and agree that Melee doesn't need tiers because the game is too flexible to have them.

For all we know, someone else could reveal the potential of a character straight outta nowhere.

(We can keep tiers for Brawl and Smash 4, though)

 

[Altea77]

How about we just destroy the tier list and agree that Melee doesn't need tiers because the game is too flexible to have them.

For all we know, someone else could reveal the potential of a character straight outta nowhere.

(We can keep tiers for Brawl and Smash 4, though)

Even Pichu? We need at least a list that seperates the viable from the unviable. Some characters just don't have any high tournament potential at all. It's been over 10 years, and the more time that goes on, the less and less likely it is that someone reveals a lower tier's potential out of nowhere. Smash 4 actually needs tiers less than Melee.

 

[Quillion]

Even Pichu? We need at least a list that seperates the viable from the unviable. Some characters just don't have any high tournament potential at all. It's been over 10 years, and the more time that goes on, the less and less likely it is that someone reveals a lower tier's potential out of nowhere. Smash 4 actually needs tiers less than Melee.

aMSa with Yoshi completely discredits this statement. It will keep happening, I assure you.

(and at least Pichu was fully intended to be awful).

 

[Sir Bubbles]

DOC'S GOING NOWHERE

I PROMISE

2017 TOP 32 EVO AND APEX LEGGO.

 

[AUS]

Top five should stay the same since I think they have been placed nicely and wont be changing anytime soon (Maybe a move up from Jiggly but not really), but I would like to see a change in the mid-tiers. Luigi (In my personal opinion) deserves to be way higher than Doc, we have seen Luigi's prove time and time again that he is viable and honestly way more viable then the Mario's. Yoshi should definitely be higher, Amsa has proven this, Zelda should be lower, no way she is even close to being viable, would have to agree with M2K's tier list and say she is highly overrated and is the second worst character. I would like to see Doc move down in the tier list and Pikachu take his place (If you disagree just watch some Axe matches). Other than that there is not much else, I could possibly see Cpt. Falcon taking Peachs place but its unlikely. Well thats my two cents on the matter.

Also lets all give Pichu a chance, not as bad as we all think he, not second worst if you ask me.