• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Time for a little payback! An advanced guide to PM Falco [Deleted]

Status
Not open for further replies.

leekslap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
581
Location
Trapped in a .gif
3DS FC
2294-4978-8399
leekslap submitted a new guide:

Time for a little payback! An advanced guide to PM Falco - I'm still high tier, guys!


Falco Lombardi! Consistently an amazing character in most ( *cough*Smash 4*cough* ) of his appearances. The second most used character in Melee is scarcely seen in Project M. Why? He's barely changed and just as fun. Have people gotten tired of seeing spacies or what? He still has the tools to deal with just about any matchup, and his tech ceiling makes him entertain you for longer...
Read more about this guide...
 

Comet7

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,027
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow
NNID
Comet7
Pros
- Unrivaled combo ability with many of his combos being guarenteed and near unescapable thanks to his amazing SHFFL and shine amongst other things
- His lasers are an extremely fast and transcendent with no endlag if shorthopped, and it can be used for both approaches and pressuring? Who designed this guy?
- Very impressive pressure overall ( especially if spaced well )
- Dair has practically no startup lag and spikes perfectly with several ways to set it up
- Very versatile
yeah not really needed, since what you're saying is trying to prove this
- Effective kill options such as his RAR bair, down tilt, up air, DACUS, and forward smash
up air and DACUS aren't that great in this game. they're okay but it's not like fox.
- Has big jumps and a deceptively good recovery
no it's actually pretty bad.
- Very good range overall
Cons
- Combo and chain grab food because of his fallspeed
- Very short up b and very gimpable too
this contradicts what you said earlier about falco's "deceptively good recovery".
- VERY technical requiring good tech skill and perfect fundementals to even play at a decent level
- Poor air mobility

ATTRIBUTES
Despite being a fast faller, Falco is light. His traction his high so he has a fairly short but quick wavedash. He does have some lag before he jumps so his wavedash may take some getting used to. He has low air speed if he doesn't have momentum, and his full jumps are high. He's fairly fast on the ground, and his dash dance is short. His attacks are lightning fast with a lot of priority.

FOX VS FALCO

Fox is usually considered to be the better character, but I think that's too quick of an assumption. Fox does have better shield pressure, more powerful and maybe more reliable kill moves, and a longer recovery, but Falco has a much better combo game, a better projectile, more range, and arguably better punishes. If a Fox shines a good player, he'll get a couple more percent and a neutral stance, but if Falco get's a shine, he gets a vicious combo that'll easily get 50% on his opponent or more. Fox's laser just forces his opponent to come to him, but Falco's dictates the tide of battle: easily approaching and camping whenever he wants. Fox's recovery, though longer, is easier to edgeguard because you can cover all his options easier. Falco's recovery practically forces you to commit to covering one option if he has good survival DI. Go offstage, and you run the risk of getting side b meteored. Stay onstage and he'll get a free side b. Try to go for a ledge grab and he can just carefully angle his up b to victory. Fox's side b is slower and his up b is just as gimpable as Fox's. Falco also has many guarenteed combos such as the Mango laser forward tilt, Gatling Combo, pillar, and more! I'm not necessarily saying Falco is a better character, but he's definetly still a force to be reckoned with.
a lot of this isn't necessarily true and gets to the point where you're not giving fox much credit. fox is probably slightly worse than falco in punishments, but it's not too big of a difference, especially if you know how to convert stuff. don't mention fox's lasers since they don't do that much. for the recovery, you're wrong. fox has more options because firefox actually goes somewhere, unlike firebird. you can still cover all his options a lot of the time, but falco should always be dead if the opponent is in an edgeguarding position. mango laser ftilt isn't that big of a deal, same with gatling. list the big things like pillar and lasers instead of a ton of trivial facts if you're going to compare them. i don't even know why this is on here before you actually discuss falco strategy, which should be the top priority of a falco guide.

More coming soon! Don't rate just yet; tell me what you think I should add later. I've learned a lot from making my Ganon guide.
comments in italicized bold

you should add a section about lasers; they're one of the best things about falco.
 

leekslap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
581
Location
Trapped in a .gif
3DS FC
2294-4978-8399
comments in italicized bold

you should add a section about lasers; they're one of the best things about falco.
That was mostly nitpicking, but your reasoning to defend Fox was awful lol! You should use side b for recovery every chance you get, and you will get chances if you use survival DI. Fire bird sucks is what I was saying but it can be OK in certain situations. You really have to squeeze ou as much as you can with Falco's recovery. Walljumps, shine stalls, everything. Iwas listing the well known ones but Falco has tons more. I'm trying to make this guide as informative as possible. It'll make the moveset section tedious at best, but you have to put in effort to succeed at Smashboards. Also you contradicted yourself by saying Fox's lasers suck.
 

Comet7

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,027
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow
NNID
Comet7
That was mostly nitpicking, but your reasoning to defend Fox was awful lol! You should use side b for recovery every chance you get, and you will get chances if you use survival DI. Fire bird sucks is what I was saying but it can be OK in certain situations. You really have to squeeze ou as much as you can with Falco's recovery. Walljumps, shine stalls, everything. Iwas listing the well known ones but Falco has tons more. I'm trying to make this guide as informative as possible. It'll make the moveset section tedious at best, but you have to put in effort to succeed at Smashboards. Also you contradicted yourself by saying Fox's lasers suck.
well it's only nitpicking because there isn't much actual falco strategy. for his recovery yeah i already know about shortens, wall jumps, etc (which should be explained later btw, but you can get to thigns on you own time), but it's still not that great and your options can still get covered. dunno how i contradicted myself when i said that fox's lasers suck (actually i didn't say they sucked, just that they're nothing overly important). you also missed the point entirely. i wasn't trying to defend fox. he's his own character. falco's a clone, blah blah blah, but they play entirely differently which is what you should have focused on instead of saying "oh you can do laser ftilt" and stuff like that; talk about how fox is more rush down than falco, and how falco controls options and how he just operates differently. i can say stuff like how falco can't waveshine peach like fox in a fox guide if i wanted to but that's more of a "we already knew that now please get onto real info" kind of thing.
 
Last edited:

TTTTTsd

Gordeau Main Paint Drinker
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
3,999
Location
Canada, where it's really cold
NNID
InverseTangent
Yeah I'm gonna have to say good recovery is not what I'd class Falco under. Not at all, ESPECIALLY not for 3.02 jesus, his recovery was already bad in Melee but it looks like straight up trash compared to some others in 3.02, like, really bad. I'm sure 3.5's recovery nerfs across the board where they needed to be nerfed will make Falco's recovery not better, but a bit less of a glaring flaw, but still...
 

Boomhound

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
121
Location
Cork, Ireland
Good to see you believe in the bird Leekslap- seems a lot of people lost faith in PM Falco but I also think he's still a threat.

I'd suggest mentioning a training regimen for his fundamentals- like you said they're necessary to play him. Stuff like how wave-dashing forward after an initial dash helps him move much quicker (watch how PP's Falco moves) or how it's easier to follow up a shine with an aerial if you jump, shine and then double-jump aerial.

Looking forward to your finished guide dude.
 

nimigoha

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
877
Leekslap please include using Phantasm to edgehog from onstage, it's a PM only tech and so Melee players who cross-play don't use it. But it's way faster than running to the ledge and RARdashing like you have to do with most other characters.
 

Boomhound

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
121
Location
Cork, Ireland
Leekslap please include using Phantasm to edgehog from onstage, it's a PM only tech and so Melee players who cross-play don't use it. But it's way faster than running to the ledge and RARdashing like you have to do with most other characters.
WWHAT!?!?!?
 

nimigoha

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
877
Space yourself 1 Phantasm away from the ledge on stage. Jump and Phantasm within 8 frames, slightly overshooting the stage. There's a large reverse ledgegrab box for a short while at the end of Phantasm as you drop a little bit.

I just learned where on stage to jump from, or I'm just good at gauging the distance. One of.

Bonus points if you do it with a shortened Phantasm.
 

Zujx

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
162
Location
Chicago, IL
You should add a section for melee falco mains transitioning to P:M and what differences they should expect with the new match ups & such.
 
Last edited:

leekslap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
581
Location
Trapped in a .gif
3DS FC
2294-4978-8399
OMG sorry completely forgot about this. And I've recently dropped Falco too. Eh, my Falco knowledge is pretty big, so no problems. I will probably update this daily since it's christmas break. I'm pretty sure I was working one frame data and followups for Falco's moveset but I guess the stupid internet forgot to save it.
 

Hinichii.ez.™

insincere personality
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
4,290
NNID
hinichii
3DS FC
2423-5382-7542
Be more specific plz

And don't tell me you've dropped MK. Me and you and GuruKid are like the people who know stuff about MK. Man that was really awkward wasn't it? Lol
Nah
My icons only mean, that's who I play in PM lol
I was just liking Falco more at the moment, so I put his icon up for a moment
Willfixlater

I was thinking about stuff like shine>sh shine> waveland onto platform
It's pretty awesome pretty melee
Cause I mean
If you hit the shine, ezer follow up
If they sheild, you'll probably end up on that platform. Zhu has the best application of this
 

Boomhound

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
121
Location
Cork, Ireland
Be more specific plz
Laser-grab.
If you do an aerial on shield wave-shine behind opponent and Utilt cos Falco's Utilt covers miles.
Fall through platform laser, double-laser from ledge.
DI mix-up back throw on fast fallers.
(Fraudulent chain-grab)
 
Last edited:

Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
1,753
Location
Bonn, Germany
Needs more AT similar to this (although it is Fox):
WD is useful OoS when you would intuitively roll, after every kind of jumpcancel where you want to stay grounded (waveshine as Fox: Shine -> WD)
Watch some Melee videos first because that is the fundament PM Fox builds on.
As Brawl player, you are probably familiar to RAR, this is the most important thing Fox has gained over the transition from Melee to PM.

Fox is a very technical character so here are the things I would try to test your current technical level and improving it (a little bit sorted by difficulty):
short hop; L-cancel; wavedash; short hop laser; wavedash OoS; tomahawk (short hop->fastfall land without any move) into grab; Different up-b angles (get used to sweetspotting from above, high angles to reach platforms etc.); Roll->shine & spot dodge-> shine (you don't want to roll or spot dodge that often but if you do, the shine is your best bet to protect you afterwards); SHFFL aerials (short hop -> fastfall -> aerial ->L-cancel or short hop->aerial->fastfall->L-cancel depending on timing); RAR bair (practice mostly in ledge situations because it is mostly used for edgeguarding); Up-smash OoS (jumpcancel -> up-smash); Up-throw->Up-air combo; Cactus dashing (dashing towards an opponent-> (shield shortly if you think they will attack ->) WDing back -> repeat until you get a grab); RARWD (a wavedash after a rar, the result should be a wavedash in your original direction while now facing the opposing direction, great for getting the ledge); side-b from the ledge (drop drom the ledge ASAP, jump immediately, side-b as soon as you are at stage height and you will have ledge invincibility on the first part of the move); WD onstage (drop drom the ledge ASAP, jump immediately, WD onwards, now you can do a grab/up-smash because if you did it correctly you will still have invincibility); shorten illusion (if you press b while travelling with side-b again, you shorten the illusion, frames 21-26 iirc); nairshines&drillshines (SHFFL nair/dair -> shine -> jumpcancel ->repeat); short hop double laser; Firestall (drop from the ledge ASAP, jump immediately, up-b so you are directly next to the ledge, you will automatically regrab if performed correctly); shine OoS (jump->shine on first airbourne frame); waveshine (WD after shine); waveshine OoS (Shine OoS -> WD); Shinegrab (shine -> jumpcancel ->immediately grab); doubleshine (shine->jumpcancel->shine, then mostly WD or SHFFL aerial); waveshine -> followup (into grab, up-smash etc.); Westballz pressure (like a doubleshine->WD but you do the second shine when slightly in the air so the next jump will not have to go through jumpsquat frames); Shinegrab OOS (Shine OoS->jumpcancel->grab); multiple waveshines; multishining (repeat doubleshines principle multiple times)

Feel free to ask more questions, I will try to answer them as good as I can.
If it should be basic it isn't really needed though. More attention should be paid to the question "What to do when?", not just here, but imho in most guides.

@ leekslap leekslap Thank you for your effort regarding guides etc.
 

leekslap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
581
Location
Trapped in a .gif
3DS FC
2294-4978-8399
Needs more AT similar to this (although it is Fox):


If it should be basic it isn't really needed though. More attention should be paid to the question "What to do when?", not just here, but imho in most guides.

@ leekslap leekslap Thank you for your effort regarding guides etc.
Yeah, I will add all the stuff you guys want me to, but frankly, the moveset section is the hardest to do.

Well, I've always loved teaching and I want to contribute to the community as much as I can. It's also to prove wrong those who just think I'm some stupid scrub from the times I'd go to big threads and screw it up for myself with my bad logic and stuff. Believe me, I have HATERS.
 

TTTTTsd

Gordeau Main Paint Drinker
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
3,999
Location
Canada, where it's really cold
NNID
InverseTangent
Well breh Falco's recovery DID get better in 3.5 by virtue of having Firebird actually go the proper distance instead of WORSE THAN MELEE.

It's still bad tho. But not AS bad. It's admirable that your guide predicted the future though.
 
Last edited:

leekslap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
581
Location
Trapped in a .gif
3DS FC
2294-4978-8399
I'm really sorry guys but I keep losing updates and forgetting Falco things. I don't think I'm the man for this. I'm deleting the guide but before I do, do you guys want me to keep it on pastebin so somebody else can take over? Just give me credit for the into and don't change it. If you want more techniques, make a 20XX section or have it in the moveset section. You can change the Table of Contents though lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom