Throwin' Down: Reliable Follow Ups Off DThrow

[~Radiance~]

How's it going tacticians. ~Radiance~ here with a something i feel many of us were wanting answers to: new Dthrow mechanics. In short, Dthrow is now amazing. It has the checkmate, it has the wind jab, it has the seldom used Utilt. But what many people may still be wondering is when EXACTLY do follow ups work at? well hopefully by perusing this thread you'll be able to get a few answers.

At risk of seeming confusing I am going to state now that this thread covers two things about Dthrow:

If it is safe at 0
When we can get guaranteed follow ups

Keep in mind that rage will always influence the percentage of these combos, but in general it will usually work within the given range.

Safety of Dthrow
​

The following characters will always be able to hit you out of a Dthrow with their fastest aerial if you Dthrow at 0:



The following characters must jump or you can jab them after Dthrow at 0:



The following characters will clank with our jab if we jab after Dthrow at 0:


The following character we can jab out of Dthrow at 0:



All other characters either have an aerial that comes out fast enough that we need to sheild, or lands fast enough to jab/grab/use luma on us /etc.

The reason this is important is because it allows you to feel out your options
If a character must jump, going for a jab is safer because if they choose to attack or air dodge jab will cover those options.
If you are against someone in the "need to shield their aerial" category you now have a toss up between shielding and punishing, and reading their jump.
If you are against someone in the "will hit you" category it is most likely a better idea to Bthrow for raw damage.
And if you manage to get lucky and get a 0 percent Dthrow on Link or Ganon, enjoy the free wind jab.

Character Specific Percents
​

This section will cover what percentages Utilt and sometimes Jab works on all characters with the exception of Rosalina because luma makes it too hard to guarantee damage. (will also add mii brawler if someone plays against one regularly)

I also want to note that in most cases every character can simply air dodge out of the Utilt and jab follow up, but they will almost always be in a bad position due to the landing lag on the dodge, allowing you to follow up.

I also did not include many wind jab follow ups unless they were very guaranteed, as many characters can simply jump out of wind jab once it is initiated.

Dthrow: the Character
Utilt = 30-60%


Roll Face on Controller
Utilt = 40-65%


RNG Princess
Utilt = 20-50%


Leg Day Every Day
Utilt = 40-60%
Jab = 40-60%


WTFrame Data?
Utilt = 40-60%


Rosalina and L R A Start
No data yet, someone can test if they want


Mama Miyamoto
Utilt = 35-70%


10/10 Would Chipotle Again
Utilt = 35-65%


Okay
Utilt = 35-80%


Ohhhh Banana
Utilt = 20-55%


The Graffix Tho
Utilt = 20-55%


Super Duper Ultra Armor
Utilt = 20-55%


Wrong Warp Warrior
Utilt = 20-60
Jab = 0-10% (out of dthrow)


Hardly a Legend
Utilt = 20-55%


Our Favorite Character
Utilt = 35-60%


Combodorf
Utilt = 0-70%
Jab = 0-20%


Mister "I Don't Want To Get Hit By Anything"
Nothing guranteed


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiPPZKUVITk
Utilt = 40-60%


Up B Offensively
Utilt = 20-60%

/
Hiyayaya's
Utilt = 40-65%


Down Taunt
Utilt = 30-60%

/
Waifu and Weeaboo
Utilt = 30-60%


L I F T B O Y Z
Utilt = 30-70%

/
Grimas
Utilt = 10-65%


Yo Dawg
Utilt = 25-45%


Character Sucks
Utilt = 15-30%


Club Penguin
Utilt = 30-75%


Uair Uair Up-B Baby
Utilt = 20-60%


Mishun Comprete
Utilt = 40-60%
Jab = 20-60%


Bread Enthusiast
Utilt = 30-60%
Jab = 20-60%


Dthrow to Anything!
Utilt = 20-60%


Rawk Smayush
Utilt = 25-70%


B Reversal Extraordinaire
Utilt = 30-60%


Not Another Rest Joke
Utilt = 15-30%


Actually Jabable
Utilt = 50-60%
Jab = 20-60%


Beep Bawp
Utilt = 35-70%


Pee Kay Bthrow
Utilt = 15-45%


HYES
Utilt = 15-65%
Jab = 20-60%


Mayor of Murder
Utilt = 35-40%


Spaceman Sam
Utilt = 30-40%


Who Even Uses Male?
Utilt = 15-60%


Feel the Feels I Feel
Utilt = 40-70% Vanilla
40-70% Speed
40-70% Jump
40-70% Buster
70-110% Shield
30-50% Smash


Not Even a Real Doctor
Utilt = 40-65%


Bandai Bribery
Utilt = 30-45%


MegasXLR
Utilt = 25-60%


Insert Fast Joke Here
Utilt = 20-50%


Ubers or GTFO
Utilt = 15-55%


I Did it Mom
Utilt = 30-40%


Boy's Our Roy
Utilt = 40-60%
Jab= 15-55%


Big Ol' Bag of BS
Utilt = 40-65%


​

​

Every percent here was tested with good DI away from Robin and included both:

DI away + fastest aerial
DI Away + jump.

If your opponent doesn't DI properly the Utilt and jabs may work later than specified. Keep in mind these values are with 0 percent rage and are percentages at which both DI away and fastest aerial and DI away and jump will both not get the opponent out of the Utilt/jab.

Again, the opponent can air dodge but will most likely put you in an advantageous position in which you can continue the jab into the wind component, or you will have finished your Utilt and can punish with another move.

Final Notes
​

I would like to thank @Arc Skypaw for helping me test all of these. It was a long process and would not have been possible without your help

I would also like to invite anyone who notices something that is incorrect or left out to tell me so we can update it to be accurate. I know we don't have many guarantees in this game as opposed to brawl, but I would like to document as much of our "guaranteed" follow ups as possible.

Good? Bad? Want more info besides just Jab and Utilt? Give me input and Ill make adjustments. With that, happy scale tipping!

~Radiance~

​

 

[Zareidriel]

This is some pretty useful stuff. I didn't know utilt was so reliable as a pressure tool as such a wide margin of percents, forcing them to get hit by it or air dodge and get follow'd up on. Can anyone recommend any followups after dthrow besides jab, utilt, and Supair?

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

I thought we had a thread for the Dthrow follow-ups already? This shows a little more and it is very well tested. If a mod could combine the two that would be good. Good job on this Jeans.

 

[~Radiance~]

This is some pretty useful stuff. I didn't know utilt was so reliable as a pressure tool as such a wide margin of percents, forcing them to get hit by it or air dodge and get follow'd up on. Can anyone recommend any followups after dthrow besides jab, utilt, and Supair?

Ive seen a lot of robins such as Raz and others go for dj/fh Fair and it seems reliable at higher percents. I personally like to go for nair often as it comes out fast enough that if you read their DI you can just dthrow, fh/dj nair and DI towards them and it will hit, plus its a very safe option in general and can lead to strings.

Utilt i feel was very underutilized in general, but now that we have new dthrow its actually really good, and as you said safe on an airdodge whiff which is nice.

I did not test any percents for Nair, SFair, or SUair unfortunately because too many variables get involved at that point making it hard to figure out what will connect and what won't since they have so many options. What I would be willing to do however is find out what percents we can NO LONGER connect with a SUair kill if having that knowledge would be beneficial to everyone.

but yea to answer your initial question and not stray too far from the point, try out sh/fh nair, i personally really like it since it can lead into more combos.

 

[Deoxippus]

I would really like to know when Dthrow upair is guaranteed. It seems like I get air dodged frequently when I think it is guaranteed.

It could also be an input error. What is the ideal input for the upair? SH or FH? How quickly do you need to start the Upair? If I try to get the Upair to come out more quickly, I get jump canceled up smash instead. Is there a precise timing that makes it guaranteed at times it would not be for a sloppier input?

How does rage effect the follow up being guaranteed (roughly)? I know you can get it to kill earlier, but does it make it combo/stop comboing earlier?

 

[Karmaic Avidity]

I just came by to say thanks for the data, and also I fell out of my chair reading the character specific names LOL.

Pee Kay Bthrow and Rosalina and L R A Start are my favorites. Bless you.

 

[theyellowflash26]

I would really like to know when Dthrow upair is guaranteed. It seems like I get air dodged frequently when I think it is guaranteed.

It could also be an input error. What is the ideal input for the upair? SH or FH? How quickly do you need to start the Upair? If I try to get the Upair to come out more quickly, I get jump canceled up smash instead. Is there a precise timing that makes it guaranteed at times it would not be for a sloppier input?

How does rage effect the follow up being guaranteed (roughly)? I know you can get it to kill earlier, but does it make it combo/stop comboing earlier?

How do you have your controls setup? For me I have jump set to L. So when I do it, I do d throw and then I press jump and then up and c stick. You want to do the jump a little before you flick the c stick, but not by much otherwise you'll get up smash. Rage does affect the combo and makes it not work correctly when Robin has quite a bit of it. A way to practice it, is set a cpu ZSS (I say ZSS bc she's the only one who's percent I can remember off the top of my head) to 89% and practice it on her. 89 is when it true combos for her and kills. Do it until you can do it consistently.

 

[~Radiance~]

sorry for the ultra delay on this but heres my two cents:

first of all thanks Karmaic Avidity for liking the names and info, i tried to make them as humorus as possible haha

second, for dthrow Uair it really depends on how much hitstun they are in at the time. at too low a percent they will just be able to air dodge out. it usually is between 90-130 that you can get the combo. i like to dthrow and then just double jump and hold up as i double jump and then press A to levin UAir.

 

[Kadc]

to add to this shiek starts at 96% for dthrow-uair but i won't lie we if someone had all the dthrow to uair be nice
=(

 

[FieryRebirth]

That reminds me, I noticed my AI Robin was able to jump out of d-throw and away from Jab as well. It's surprising too when you remember how difficult it is for Robin to avoid combos.

 

[Yoite]

'Checkmate' percentages on every character including Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta. These may not be 100% accurate, but I have tested them all myself so take all of it with a grain of salt. Includes some rage data. Only way I could share it was via dropbox, click the link and download it as there's a page 2 with the rage data.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b610pltvl1kesyw/Checkmate min- max ko%s.xlsx?dl=0

Use this data wisely to tip the scales when the opponent least expects it!

 

[LeifEriksson]

This is really useful, now I actually have a reason to grab as Robin!

 

[Zareidriel]

Thanks a ton Yoite, great research! I had the min KO %'s from somewhere else (another Robin around here methinks) but having the max as well is very helpful.