Thoughts on this tier list?

[hidensheik11]

What do you think of this new tier list?

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

What do you think of this new tier list?

I'd say Marf above Sheik.

 

[Spak]

I'd say Marf above Sheik.

I've never heard of Marf before. Is he a new character? Is Nintendo announcing Melee DLC at E3? It's been 14 years since Melee's release. 4-1=3. One and a half lives confirmed.

But in all seriousness, I think that Yoshi should move to the lowest spot on A tier, Roy should be above Zelda (and possibly DK?), Bowser should be last, Marth should be above Shiek, and G&W should be right behind Roy. Other than that, good list.

 

[Cursetyl]

I've never heard of Marf before. Is he a new character? Is Nintendo announcing Melee DLC at E3? It's been 14 years since Melee's release. 4-1=3. One and a half lives confirmed.

But in all seriousness, I think that Yoshi should move to the lowest spot on A tier, Roy should be above Zelda (and possibly DK?), Bowser should be last, Marth should be above Shiek, and G&W should be right behind Roy. Other than that, good list.

I agree with this except that I would argue that Game and Watch should be right above Roy.

 

[Y-L]

http://smashboards.com/threads/2013-community-tier-list.336113/

 

[hidensheik11]

http://smashboards.com/threads/2013-community-tier-list.336113/

this one is different

 

[TehGuitarLord]

I would say this is pretty accurate. Two things tho. 1. Switch Marth and Sheik. 2. Since Doc and Mario are essentially clones, i don't understand what constitutes Mario being not only so far apart, but also in a different tier. At least put him kn A tier imo.

 

[Y-L]

this one is different

Yeah but that's where tier list discussion belongs because as you can imagine there's been tons of threads like this. Also really annoying how 99% of the people that will post in this thread will feel entitled to state the tier list even though they havent even been to tournaments at all it's just funny.

 

[BranFlakes217]

I wanna see Falcon pushed up a bit, he should at least be higher than IC

 

[Danny of AD 1]

i'd say ranking is accurate but categories are not the b tier should consist of tier ranks 14 to 23 and the s tier be divided into tiers p (perfect) and s mario link donkey kong young link yoshi zelda roy mewtwo mr game and watch and ness have mediocre but not abysmal matchups (kirby being the worst) but no seriously luigi is pretty bad 22nd at best mario through ness except yoshi being at least 21st peach being a tier pikachu being b tier yoshi at 23rd and kirby 26th and bowser 25th pichu is 24th i just call it as i see it or we could make the bottom 21 the f tier

 

[tttt]

This is my tier list I made a couple of weeks back.
S tier = capability of winning nationals/majors
A tier = capability of getting good placings, but probably not winning majors
F tier = nahhhhhhh

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

i'd say ranking is accurate but categories are not the b tier should consist of tier ranks 14 to 23 and the s tier be divided into tiers p (perfect) and s mario link donkey kong young link yoshi zelda roy mewtwo mr game and watch and ness have mediocre but not abysmal matchups (kirby being the worst) but no seriously luigi is pretty bad 22nd at best mario through ness except yoshi being at least 21st peach being a tier pikachu being b tier yoshi at 23rd and kirby 26th and bowser 25th pichu is 24th i just call it as i see it or we could make the bottom 21 the f tier

Peach being a tier Pikachu? lol? By the way, the tier list you just named is abysmal, might as well have a casual make it.

 

[AirFair]

Marth is not above Sheik. At least right now.
Move Yoshi up. Maybe Roy.

 

[tttt]

Marth is not above Sheik. At least right now.
Move Yoshi up. Maybe Roy.

Gosh I just hate Roy so much though.

 

[TehGuitarLord]

Marth is not above Sheik. At least right now.
Move Yoshi up. Maybe Roy.

Why not? Honestly, we're seeing way more Marths in the meta, and more successful Marths than successful Sheiks. Think about it. Notable Marth mains: M2K, PPMD, PewPewU, The Moon, Ken, Arc, I.B., etc, and the fact that people are starting to switch to him or use him as a secondary (Fiction/Shroomed). Notable Sheik Mains: M2K, Shroomed, Ice (not really anymore), KirbyKaze.... and I guess that's it. If you think about it too, all of the Sheik users I mentioned except for KK kinda dual main, while only the first two Marths I mentioned dual main. That's just how I see it.

Also, why do you believe Roy should be higher? Just curious.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The funny thing is that I see this list and see no difference to really any other tier list. There are small changes such as say Fox/Falco above each other. Then, down to say peach/jiggs/marth/sheik area. Down to say is kirby or pichu worse. After all these years there is not really any list that will be drastically different. Most are like +2 to -2 position swaps and that goes back and forth all the time.

 

[Ezmar]

This is my tier list I made a couple of weeks back.
S tier = capability of winning nationals/majors
A tier = capability of getting good placings, but probably not winning majors
F tier = nahhhhhhh

Your A tier "probably not winning majors" seems very biased by current players. As a character, I believe a lot of characters have the tools to win a major, particularly ICs and Falcon, from your list. Sure, there aren't players that are likely to take a major anytime soon, but you'll notice that the S tier are just the characters the "Gods" use, and they're the only players to win majors for years. But a tier list should be about characters, rather than players. Obviously players and results inform and demonstrate potential, but be careful when saying what a character is not capable of.

 

[EddyBearr]

Top (S / A+): Wins most nationals, defines the meta.
High (A): Part of meta, can win nationals with effort
Borderline (A-): Part of meta, can win nationals if lucky with brackets, but significant shortcomings
Viable (B): Small part of meta, can win regionals, but unlikely to top 8 at nationals.
Niche (C): Very small part of meta, has competitive uses under specific circumstances (matchups, players), but generally bad.
Low (D): Not really part of the meta, bad characters.. but they're not awful and could definitely win locals easily.
Bottom (F): Not a part of meta, bad characters. There's no excuse for losing to these characters.

 

[CptJPuff]

Rank S and A can be mixed around no matter what tbh. They're pretty much all equal.
I think Rank B will greatly depend on one's personal experience in locals.
Rank E I think everyone generally agrees on.
With Rank F, I can assure you everyone agrees on.

 

[Spak]

I don't think that Ness should be above Roy. Also, the ranking of "impossible to lose to these if you're playing seriously" isn't quite accurate, since there are people who have played those characters seriously and did well against or won against respected players (Gimpyfish and DJN's Bowser, NEO and Sethlon's Roy, and Phish_It and Green Ranger's DK just to name a few).

 

[Massive]

The order doesn't matter, as long as they're in the right bucket.

 

[Spak]

The order doesn't matter, as long as they're in the right bucket.

But Ness and Roy were in different buckets. There are a number of other placements I had problems with order-wise, but that (and Mario being a tier above Doc) are the main bucket-problems.

 

[AirFair]

I don't know if Marth should be above Sheik. It's just that Sheik beats Marth really easily, but then again, that's one matchup only.

 

[EddyBearr]

I don't know if Marth should be above Sheik. It's just that Sheik beats Marth really easily, but then again, that's one matchup only.

Nah, matchup's almost even. Marth has this really big sword that isn't even connected to him.

 

[AirFair]

Well I've been aware of that lol. I guess it's just lower levels.

 

[Massive]

But Ness and Roy were in different buckets. There are a number of other placements I had problems with order-wise, but that (and Mario being a tier above Doc) are the main bucket-problems.

I never said I agreed with the list the OP posted. I think the entire idea of a tier list in this meta is stupid to begin with.

A "viable" and "not viable" list is probably the only thing that will be even remotely valid, and that list should only be populated with characters that regularly get into the top 8 in decently sized tournaments. Beyond that, matchup information is more useful than tier placement.

 

[Spak]

Beyond that, matchup information is more useful than tier placement.

Which is why we need a new MU list. Badly.

 

[EddyBearr]

I know r/ssbm has been working on a matchup chart, but it's community voted. I can't trust a matchup chart created by randoms who are just going to say Pika beats Fox 60-40 "because Axe is so good".

 

[Woohoo982]

Mario should be where Ganon is, move Pichu to last,bump up Kirby to where Roy is, and move Game and Watch to where DK is.
Quick form:
To 14th
To 15th
To 26th
To 21st
To 19th
To 22nd

 

[hidensheik11]

The funny thing is that I see this list and see no difference to really any other tier list. There are small changes such as say Fox/Falco above each other. Then, down to say peach/jiggs/marth/sheik area. Down to say is kirby or pichu worse. After all these years there is not really any list that will be drastically different. Most are like +2 to -2 position swaps and that goes back and forth all the time.

But whats funnier is I didn't even touch the S tiers, and people make small changes because for the most part the current tier list is agreeable. but the A tier can be argued which is where I made most changes. but good luck finding a drastically changed tier list like you were hoping for

 

[kingPiano]

But whats funnier is I didn't even touch the S tiers, and people make small changes because for the most part the current tier list is agreeable. but the A tier can be argued which is where I made most changes. but good luck finding a drastically changed tier list like you were hoping for

That's what I find funny about tier list discussion and their threads. They draw the most conversation but by the end absolutely nothing has changed since the beginning, all opinions have not contributed anything productive at all. In essence it's just 1-3 hours of your life wasted every time talking in circles. Same goes for match-ups, I think people just like expressing their opinions no matter how ill equipped or biased they may be.

As the tier list stands right now it's fine, no changes would even matter even if Kirby miraculously jumped up to top B tier. It would mean absolutely nothing.

And arguing over 1 spot or 2 spots or swapping places within tiers is even more pedantic and useless. Think about that 1-3 hours lost, even at minimum wage that's like $24 you just threw away :/ *whomp whomp* I guess as long as you enjoy the talking in circles part it's all good.

 

[Spak]

That's what I find funny about tier list discussion and their threads. They draw the most conversation but by the end absolutely nothing has changed since the beginning, all opinions have not contributed anything productive at all. In essence it's just 1-3 hours of your life wasted every time talking in circles. Same goes for match-ups, I think people just like expressing their opinions no matter now ill equipped or biased they may be.

As the tier list stands right now it's fine, no changes would even matter even if Kirby miraculously jumped up to top B tier. It would mean absolutely nothing.

And arguing over 1 spot or 2 spots or swapping places within tiers is even more pedantic and useless. Think about that 1-3 hours lost, even at minimum wage that's like $24 you just threw away :/ *whomp whomp* I guess as long as you enjoy the talking in circles part it's all good.

Only another 12 hours of work to pay off that new CoD and a season pass (such a waste of money)!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

But whats funnier is I didn't even touch the S tiers, and people make small changes because for the most part the current tier list is agreeable. but the A tier can be argued which is where I made most changes. but good luck finding a drastically changed tier list like you were hoping for

My opinion on this is not as... negative as KingPiano's, but it sort of sums up my thoughts. I am not saying the discussion is useless. Its enjoyable to debate over things like this.

My attitude was more inline with the idea that I believe tier list discussion will simply be rehashing endlessly now. One person might put say Pichu is the worst or Kirby is the worst. But at this point we simply come to the agreement that both are fairly bad characters overall and place near the bottom. Their exact placement I think will never be known and I am sort of against the idea of going over +1/-1 +2/-2 placements discussions. It would be more interesting on something that proves to be drastic changes. Which in recent times it seems as if only Yoshi is suspect at this point.

I have thought Roy could have a higher drastic increase, but I never looked into it as much beyond examining him stand alone rather than compared to the other characters.