Thoughts on 3.5 Falcon

[Kazuyahimegami]

Okay, so 3.5 has been out for a about a day and no 3.5 falcon thread, sooo here we go!

 

[Kazuyahimegami]

I hope you all are enjoying the unparalleled manliness of 3.5 C-Fal and his VERY snazzy new purple and classic falcon outfits as much as I am ^_^ Amidst all the hype for the floating lord of darkness, I still required a fair amount of wrist straps from my "Break in case of SSBPM Update - Hype Survival Kit" for falcon's new running animations and other speculative falcon hype the entire time . What's are you guys' thoughts on his most recent revision? Personally, I think the PMBR did such a great job balancing everyone(even though they nerfed my main and most of my secondaries, but hey) and the game just feels...smoother? May just have been sleep deprivation coupled with hype lenses obscuring my judgement a bit though, but everyone (Esp. Falcon) just feels better xD Also, I have been waiting so very long for Falcon's aerial falcon kick to be ledge cancel-able like Ganon's was in 2.5/2.6 or so, Idk if Ganon could still do it in 3.0, but that's besides the point! Checking if his aerial falcon kick can be ledge canceled has pretty much always been the 2nd thing I test out as soon as I get my hands on the newest PM build, the 1st always being a test if he can shoot across the stage with a stooopid ass DACUS like Ganon could(and still can...sorta :/). Falcon, it appears to me at least, doesn't go any sort of note-worthy distance with the new universal 2-frame DACUS window, but I still hold faith in my heart that 1. Some unorthodox 20XX falcon DACUS that can insta-taunt cancel out of his Side and Up Taunts to be discovered, and 2. A Moonwalk Canceled>Reverse-Dash-Attack>Ledge-Canceled>Pivot Falcon Punch that can make him shoot to the top right/left corner of the screen due to some physics glitch or another(Think of the practical uses! ) to be a thing as well...It's probably possible in turbo mode since the way momentum carries is like the silliest thing I've ever seen in my life....but I digress haha. I don't know if I'm just the only one that is hyped about the new improved 3.5 falcon or what, or maybe it's just the engine optimization and new animations (and alt. costumes <333) that makes him "feel" better, but regardless, I highly anticipate hearing your thoughts/first impressions ppl! :3

 

[kRuMP]

Playing around with him this morning, I really like him. The only thing that seems off to me is that I can't hax-dash and wave-dashing to stage grab requires a bit more distance than it used to. I dunno if it's an engine optimization thing or what but I lost a tournament stock yesterday because of it :/

Or maybe I'm just really bad.

But overall I think he got a pretty nice treatment with 3.5

 

[asd_]

he got nerfed

i really don't know why either

he feels a bit better cause everyone feels a bit better, although its not quite melee physics yet


64 suit is the sex tho

 

[robosteven]

NEW DASH ANIMATION <3

All in all though, he feels the same.

I figure we should keep close tabs on Ganon now though.

he got nerfed

what

 

[robosteven]

double post

 

[asd_]

NEW DASH ANIMATION <3

All in all though, he feels the same.

I figure we should keep close tabs on Ganon now though.



what

Specials
-Forward Special (Raptor Boost)
--Players must now hold back after grounded side-b offstage to drift back and grab the ledge.
--Aerial version BKB decreased from 60 to 50.
--Aerial version bounce only occurs when the hit connects with the opponent.
-Up Special (Falcon Dive)
--Now uses set character momentum instead of set knock back per character.
-Down Special (Falcon Kick)
--Wall Jump/bounce hitlag decreased from 60 to 40.
--Ground to Air ending animation is now smoother and goes into special landing 15 frames instead of hard landing.
--Changed knock back/damage progression:
---Frames 15-17: 15 damage, 60 BKB, 70 KBG, angle 45
---Frames 18-25: 12 damage, 60 BKB, 60 KBG, angle 60
---Frames 26-33: 9 damage, 60 BKB, 50 KBG, angle 75

falcon kick got nerfed pretty significantly, raptor boost a bit too

sure its slight, but falcon is definitely lower-ish tier in pm and i don't see the reason why they did that

the ONLY reason falcon was high tier in melee was because the majority of the cast didn't have such insane toolsets, only shiek and the spacies really did..now many, many more do

 

[robosteven]

I said the same thing in a Jiggs thread, but whatever.

Everyone got nerfed. 3.02 Falcon could handle the Melee high-tiers pretty much the same as he could in Melee, possible better. In regards to those matchups, it's probably going to be the same.

Against other matchups though, I don't think a nerf to Falcon Kick and a slight nerf to Raptor Boost is going to significantly change anything for him.

All of those insane toolsets you're talking about have been toned the **** down for 3.5. All of them.

 

[asd_]

I said the same thing in a Jiggs thread, but whatever.

Everyone got nerfed. 3.02 Falcon could handle the Melee high-tiers pretty much the same as he could in Melee, possible better. In regards to those matchups, it's probably going to be the same.

Against other matchups though, I don't think a nerf to Falcon Kick and a slight nerf to Raptor Boost is going to significantly change anything for him.

All of those insane toolsets you're talking about have been toned the **** down for 3.5. All of them.

gannon got pretty ****ing buffed, roy for some reason got pretty buffed, didn't really look at much else but i'm sure other characters got buffed here and there

its ironic because both of those characters were probably on the better half of the specturm (and for sure are now)

it's true it's nothing big, but just the fact that a character that could use some reworked ground moves and is overall very weak got nerfed is very silly in my eyes

 

[robosteven]

gannon got pretty ****ing buffed, roy for some reason got pretty buffed, didn't really look at much else but i'm sure other characters got buffed here and there

Ganon got less buffed than you think, and Roy's only big change was his dair spike.

Most characters across the board got general tweaks as opposed to straight buffs, and most of the changes make the characters harder to win with.

In comparison, Falcon basically got no changes.

 

[pkblaze]

Roy's biggest changes were clanking side B(buff) and upair having 9 frames l-cancel lag instead of 7(Nerf). His dair being a spike will come into play less often than those 2.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Ganon's float is big for him but he was legitimately bottom tier so at best it pushes him up to low/mid, he wasn't insanely buffed at all. Projectile reflector is unwieldly but effective when used proper (not the best).

Falcon is basically the same, barring some really slight nerfs that are not going to affect his fundamentals a whole ton. He's still Falcon, just likely better overall due to the cast wide changes.

 

[Anonistry]

Yeah, actually going through his new tools, reflect is... wanting atm, hover is awesome but the required lag on acting out of it means that it is more of an edge tool than an all around mobility option (although it still is going to see use as a way to open up approach.) He has a slightly quicker nair. I think I read that his utilt effectively isn't as guaranteed to stomp from the first hit? It does -feel- like something could happen inbetween now.

On the whole, Dorf is looking good because he lost pretty much nothing, gained a couple of tools, a slightly better nair, and his recovery is now much more inline since recovery is otherwise smarting across the board. Its not like his aerial wizkick can be spammed like pre-final patch Black Adam bootstomp from Injustice (if you don't know, that thing was safe on block and could be backdashed right after which is universally invincible in that game and his was godlike at the time, so he could pressure for days.) He still has t-rex arms. His risk is still high much of the time, and I would argue most of his tougher matchups that didn't involve camping are going to be his... tougher matchups, barring any of them getting severely hurt. The Dorfs are just happy because of the whole patch's balance list, what we DID get (including fantastic new alt outfit), and what we DIDN'T lose (pretty much anything.) He actually is not likely going to become based PM god tier. Not yet anyways...

 

[DMG]

The buff to Falcon's grabs, where you can now grab crouching low characters, is the best thing since sliced bread. That alone has me happy to play him

 

[Crawfiish]

Ganon got less buffed than you think, and Roy's only big change was his dair spike.

Most characters across the board got general tweaks as opposed to straight buffs, and most of the changes make the characters harder to win with.

In comparison, Falcon basically got no changes.

Falcon's big change is that he wasn't changed. Against a nerfed cast, he was indirectly buffed

 

[DMG]

His big change was also grabbing low chars. That changes neutral for him quite a bit against very annoying characters

 

[Deleted member]

I'm planning on playing 3.5 this Wednesday at OZ or tomorrow at a friend's. Can't wait to try out 3.5 Falcon to see how he is, it's going to be pretty ****ing sick.

 

[King of Hoboz]

Guys, that Dash buff is too good. His Dash Dance is sooo dynamic and threatening looking now. I love it <3

 

[BananaBolts]

The OP mentioned it but no one else has said anything about this: Falcon can now ledge-cancel his Falcon Kick. It's so good!

Grabbing lower characters is great.

His new dash is awesome too.

I love you, Falcon.

 

[ThreeSided]

Everyone is talking positives, so let's talk negatives for a second.

Raptor boost will no long pop you up unless the hit actually connects with something. This actually means we get edgeguarded a bit easier, since there would occasionally be times where, while going for the ledge with raptor boost, the opponent would grab the ledge right as we were in range of them for the attack. As a result, the attack would come out, and although they'd be invincible and not get hit, we'd get bumped over them onto the stage. Now, we just plummet to our deaths.

Falcon kick seems worse. It no longer hits them forward. It hits them up instead, weakly. This move is good for punishing and could actually kill before 3.5. It now does not. In addition, when falcon kicking from the stage to off the stage, gravity takes hold sooner and it's slightly less survivable, as we end up lower than we did previously. Both of those changes to falcon kick means that I can no longer do one of my favorite fun games (falcon kick off stage > double jump Uair/Knee). =(

Overall, I think the passive buffs outweigh these nerfs, but some of them (particularly falcon kick) so make me sad.

 

[BananaBolts]

The only thing that seems off to me is that I can't hax-dash and wave-dashing to stage grab requires a bit more distance than it used to. I dunno if it's an engine optimization thing or what but I lost a tournament stock yesterday because of it :/

I noticed the same thing. I can't tell if I need ledgehop further in-stage and then hax dash to regrab the ledge or hold the control stick towards the ledge as I'm wavelanding off of the stage. I'll play around with it more when my schoolwork eases up.
(I hate you, Calculus 2)

 

[kRuMP]

I noticed the same thing. I can't tell if I need ledgehop further in-stage and then hax dash to regrab the ledge or hold the control stick towards the ledge as I'm wavelanding off of the stage. I'll play around with it more when my schoolwork eases up.
(I hate you, Calculus 2)

It's possible that it relates to the whole new ledge invincibility grab limit. Landing on the stage a la haxdash would reset it too easily. Falcon still seems pretty GAAHHHHDDLLIIIKE regardless of his balancing.

 

[BananaBolts]

It's possible that it relates to the whole new ledge invincibility grab limit. Landing on the stage a la haxdash would reset it too easily. Falcon still seems pretty GAAHHHHDDLLIIIKE regardless of his balancing.

My issue is that Falcon slides completely offstage without re-grabbing the ledge.

 

[Kazuyahimegami]

My issue is that Falcon slides completely offstage without re-grabbing the ledge.

Yeah, I've noticed that too (I'm considering the edgeguarding possibilities as we speak lol) and the thing I really like about the ledge thing is you can moonwalk offstage easily for falcon hype instead of grabbing the ledge <3 but yeah...it does feel weird wavedashing back (or haxdashing back, for that matter) to try and grab ledge like in 3.0 and earlier, and having him just fly offstage. I've gotten gimped a few times when it took me by surprise, actually xD ya just gotta do a smaller wavedash I guess

 

[BananaBolts]

ya just gotta do a smaller wavedash I guess

A more precise tech is fine with me. If I can learn all of the ins-and-outs of Falcon, I'll be much better equipped to win.

 

[1ampercent]

The Haxdash is more Melee like in 3.5, you'll slide off the stage without grabbing the ledge if not done properly, whereas in previous versions it's more lenient.

I kinda expected the Falcon Kick nerfs, was a bit too strong but still sad about it, but they added ledge cancel Falcon Kick. I'm definitely going to incorporate that, nothing wrong with more tricks!

Don't mind the nerf to knockback on Aerial Raptor Boost since it spikes anyway, but hitting a projectile and then plummeting to death is really stupid. At least with Ganondorf you'd get hit and have another attempt at recovery. Most annoying nerf imo. PMDT please fix...

Other then that, I'm liking 3.5 Falcon.

 

[Equal]

I didn't think Falcon Kick got completely nerfed according to this;

"-Down Special (Falcon Kick)
--Wall Jump/bounce hitlag decreased from 60 to 40.
--Ground to Air ending animation is now smoother and goes into special landing 15 frames instead of hard landing."

I can't think of many stages with walls besides PS1 transformations but the fact that if you Falcon kick into a wall you're not hanging in the air forever, although 40 frames is still a large enough window for a solid punish by an expecting opponent, which is fair. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Falcon Kicking into the ground and only having 15 frames of landing lag a big buff to Falcon Kick (IIRC, the landing lag before was super long, didn't do it too often)? Combined with being able to ledge cancel, Falcon now actually has a tool that can get him out of the air with minimal landing lag. I think that can make his recovery much much better.

 

[TheFadedWarrior]

Raptor Boost kills you most of the time when you go off the edge. I remember they changed it in Project M so that you tumbled forward and grabbed the edge, but now you don't always grab the edge. That serves very little problem though, because I don't plan on doing Raptor Boost towards edges.

Other than that, little of what I do with him has changed. I still love him. He seems mostly the same, of course with small nerfs and buffs here and there.

 

[victra♥]

PM 3.5 Falcon feels much more like Melee Falcon.

I like him a lot more in this patch.

 

[Nephiros]

3.5 Falcon feels great

DEM LEDGE CANCELLED FALCON KICKS OMYGAWWWWDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

 

[Blazing Ambition]

Ledge cancelled Falcon kicks are sex. A little bummed about the reduced knockback, but it's whatever. The PMBR giveth, and the PMBR taketh away. N64 Palette swap is also quite nice, really digging scarf-less falcon.

...I miss the old running animation, this one looks so weird when he moonwalks..

 

[Deleted member]

Took me a bit to get used to him, but the running animation makes him feel more fluid and I enjoy playing Falcon a lot more now than I did in 3.0.

At first, I was very displeased with him in 3.5, but now I've gotten his new groove together and he feels fabio.

 

[BananaBolts]

I just came from Isai's stream. I would like to share this signature with all of the Falcon mains:

When Isai was asked why he played Falcon in Melee, he said,
"I wanna double double... I want a milkshake... I wanna pick Falcon"

 

[RevengeOfTheStyle]

64 costume!!! God I love it.

 

[Onisser]

I love 3.5 Falcon. I think he feels just like Melee Falcon, but with better recovery.