WispBae
Tsundere Princess
So over the past couple weeks I've been toying around with Duck Hunt (big surprise) but hadn't really checked up on the boards in a while. When I came back, I found many threads dismissing the gunmen as "eh". I found this a bit odd considering I was constantly using them in play (though I was neglecting can, thanks to everyone's tips for can techniques!).
So I thought I'd help by offering my thoughts on them a bit more in depth, rather than a general overview.
Need to Know Information
The biggest advantage to having a gunman out I've found is the delayed hit (some faster than others, but always delayed). Where as Clay and Can both are immediately active as hitboxes, Gunmen have a delay that can be used for setting up tons of opportunities. Like the move Future Sight in the Pokemon games, it's not about getting the hit eventually, but using the delay to your advantage.
While all the gunmen have delayed attacks, there are two important extremes to take note of: Sad Bro (dual pistols) and Thomas (coat) (names taken from this video until official names are decided on: Source). Thomas shoots the fastest, almost immediately (but not the shortest range, Mad Bro takes that, along with the strongest shot), while Sad Bro has the longest delay, but the longest range (around 6 or 7 tenths of FD). The timing of the other 3 gunmen are all between those two, and much more predictable (just with varying damage, damage elements and knockback angles). Sad Bro and Thomas are like less rare versions of Peach's stitchface or beamsword, where because of their extreme timing variances, are great for mixing up or for much bigger set ups.
Gunmen will also act as a shield for projectiles that do not have piercing qualities (Beam Shot, Turnips, Fireballs, etc). However, due to their hitstun lag (being hit before, during, or after the shot or hit by anything, they take about 5% to knockdown), it is not recommended as a guaranteed way to stop projectiles spam. Smarter players will attack gunmen after they shoot, making sure it is a long few seconds before you can set up another.
Gunmen do float slowly down while in mid-air, though they all float different distances. The faster they shoot, the lower the distance. I wouldn't recommend it for edgeguarding, due to the randomness of them, but it is possible. If they are recovering mid-way (as opposed to high or low), then throwing out a gunmen before going off stage is a good way to pressure people.
Set-Ups
Gunmen > Grab > Pummel > Downthrow/Foward Throw > Fair/Dash Attack
This is probably one of the safest ways to approach someone on the ground, since it covers many options. If they shield, grab. They attack, they will be shot. Whiffed attacks just mean as soon as they are popped-up by gunmen, and immediate Fair.
Gunmen > Clay Pigeon
Excellent spacing tool. Soft tossed clay pigeons will catch them once popped up, then you can detonate the clay. Be sure to not clay pigeon first instead, gunmen can shoot it out of the air.
Can > Gunmen
An odd way to approach someone with plenty of projectiles leading the way, as well as a very campy way to have two layers of protection. Kick a new can in front of you however far you like, then put a gunman behind it. Their shots are transcendent to the can, meaning they will hit the can (reduces the shots left on can) as well as shoot past the can to the enemy. If gunman shoots the can early, it will float a decent distance forward slowly. If there are shots already on the can, gunman will make the can go forward only a bit, but very quickly. (Note, Sheriff will shoot over the can, not making it bounce)
Can >< Gunmen > Clay pigeon (by @
DunnoBro
)
It doesn't matter if gunmen or can goes first too much, though generally can is better unless you need projectile blocking immediately as it lets you threaten for longer. Just keep shooting the can barely off the ground, above where gunmen is going to shoot. This locks out a lot of ground and single jump air options. If the can survives, let it drop to the ground and short hop a clay pigeon over it (preferably reverse SH to put more distance between you guys as the can is likely near exploding and you're going to need to reset the stage traps) This again locks out ground and aerial options.
Getting The Most Out of Gunmen/Playstyles
Anti-Camping Tool
While all projectiles can keep a person from camping, the benefit of gunman is his shield like properties. Most campers are either waiting for a move, or spamming weak projectiles. He can take a few weak projectiles and still fire, while you set up a can and send it over head. Since he is acting as a shield as well, it will prevent a camper from using their weak projectiles to turn the can around while you get it above them.
Two for Flinching
For those who have the bad habit of instantly air dodging, spot dodging, or rolling. Most of these players will spam an evasive move or a counter as soon as any attack happens. This is where the delay comes in handy, since the attack is not immediate, making it tricky to counter. This can give you the time to run in with a grab or set-up a counter move. With counter-happy people, I'll run at them, then throw out gunmen, wait for the counter to happen and punish the long end lag.
Juggle Insurance
Keeping opponents in your control is very important for Duck Hunt, considering clay pigeon has long lag, and getting juggled makes it hard for DH to get down. Once you have control of the ground (let's say you used a dash attack and it connected), tossing out gunmen as they fall helps you control space the can can't cover and keeps pressure on opponents. If they land, they are popped back up for more juggles. If they land and shield in time, free grab (gotta be fast). If they jump, this gives you more time to set-up a can (if needed), or continue the string. Using Fair when they jump is great because of it's disjointed hitbox, or you can land the much needed U-Air for a star KO.
Anti-Pressure (by @
DunnoBro
)
On the stage, they're good for dealing with dubious option characters like sheik or greninja who can either rush you down or pick at you with projectiles. Helps remove some of their options for a bit to give you time to set-up for the right approach.
Off-stage (by@powerhouse)
Not really too great but worth mentioning. When you're recovering, often you need to put out a hitbox to protect you during your harmless upb. The can is usually ideal for this but sometimes it's stuck on the stage, gunmen can make a good makeshift in this case. Just release him while you're high-ish so he'd be stage level after falling, this locks them on the stage long enough to mess with their timing hopefully.
Hopefully this will encourage the other pups out there to use their bandito friends more often, they are very versatile and come out much faster than DH's other projectiles. Cheers!
If I may, since nobody else has given them any names...
(From left to right) Rifleman, Dual Pistols, Bandito, Sheriff and Thomas (or Coat, I like Thomas better...)
So I thought I'd help by offering my thoughts on them a bit more in depth, rather than a general overview.
Need to Know Information
The biggest advantage to having a gunman out I've found is the delayed hit (some faster than others, but always delayed). Where as Clay and Can both are immediately active as hitboxes, Gunmen have a delay that can be used for setting up tons of opportunities. Like the move Future Sight in the Pokemon games, it's not about getting the hit eventually, but using the delay to your advantage.
While all the gunmen have delayed attacks, there are two important extremes to take note of: Sad Bro (dual pistols) and Thomas (coat) (names taken from this video until official names are decided on: Source). Thomas shoots the fastest, almost immediately (but not the shortest range, Mad Bro takes that, along with the strongest shot), while Sad Bro has the longest delay, but the longest range (around 6 or 7 tenths of FD). The timing of the other 3 gunmen are all between those two, and much more predictable (just with varying damage, damage elements and knockback angles). Sad Bro and Thomas are like less rare versions of Peach's stitchface or beamsword, where because of their extreme timing variances, are great for mixing up or for much bigger set ups.
Gunmen will also act as a shield for projectiles that do not have piercing qualities (Beam Shot, Turnips, Fireballs, etc). However, due to their hitstun lag (being hit before, during, or after the shot or hit by anything, they take about 5% to knockdown), it is not recommended as a guaranteed way to stop projectiles spam. Smarter players will attack gunmen after they shoot, making sure it is a long few seconds before you can set up another.
Gunmen do float slowly down while in mid-air, though they all float different distances. The faster they shoot, the lower the distance. I wouldn't recommend it for edgeguarding, due to the randomness of them, but it is possible. If they are recovering mid-way (as opposed to high or low), then throwing out a gunmen before going off stage is a good way to pressure people.
Set-Ups
Gunmen > Grab > Pummel > Downthrow/Foward Throw > Fair/Dash Attack
This is probably one of the safest ways to approach someone on the ground, since it covers many options. If they shield, grab. They attack, they will be shot. Whiffed attacks just mean as soon as they are popped-up by gunmen, and immediate Fair.
Gunmen > Clay Pigeon
Excellent spacing tool. Soft tossed clay pigeons will catch them once popped up, then you can detonate the clay. Be sure to not clay pigeon first instead, gunmen can shoot it out of the air.
Can > Gunmen
An odd way to approach someone with plenty of projectiles leading the way, as well as a very campy way to have two layers of protection. Kick a new can in front of you however far you like, then put a gunman behind it. Their shots are transcendent to the can, meaning they will hit the can (reduces the shots left on can) as well as shoot past the can to the enemy. If gunman shoots the can early, it will float a decent distance forward slowly. If there are shots already on the can, gunman will make the can go forward only a bit, but very quickly. (Note, Sheriff will shoot over the can, not making it bounce)
Can >< Gunmen > Clay pigeon (by @
DunnoBro
)It doesn't matter if gunmen or can goes first too much, though generally can is better unless you need projectile blocking immediately as it lets you threaten for longer. Just keep shooting the can barely off the ground, above where gunmen is going to shoot. This locks out a lot of ground and single jump air options. If the can survives, let it drop to the ground and short hop a clay pigeon over it (preferably reverse SH to put more distance between you guys as the can is likely near exploding and you're going to need to reset the stage traps) This again locks out ground and aerial options.
Getting The Most Out of Gunmen/Playstyles
Anti-Camping Tool
While all projectiles can keep a person from camping, the benefit of gunman is his shield like properties. Most campers are either waiting for a move, or spamming weak projectiles. He can take a few weak projectiles and still fire, while you set up a can and send it over head. Since he is acting as a shield as well, it will prevent a camper from using their weak projectiles to turn the can around while you get it above them.
Two for Flinching
For those who have the bad habit of instantly air dodging, spot dodging, or rolling. Most of these players will spam an evasive move or a counter as soon as any attack happens. This is where the delay comes in handy, since the attack is not immediate, making it tricky to counter. This can give you the time to run in with a grab or set-up a counter move. With counter-happy people, I'll run at them, then throw out gunmen, wait for the counter to happen and punish the long end lag.
Juggle Insurance
Keeping opponents in your control is very important for Duck Hunt, considering clay pigeon has long lag, and getting juggled makes it hard for DH to get down. Once you have control of the ground (let's say you used a dash attack and it connected), tossing out gunmen as they fall helps you control space the can can't cover and keeps pressure on opponents. If they land, they are popped back up for more juggles. If they land and shield in time, free grab (gotta be fast). If they jump, this gives you more time to set-up a can (if needed), or continue the string. Using Fair when they jump is great because of it's disjointed hitbox, or you can land the much needed U-Air for a star KO.
Anti-Pressure (by @
DunnoBro
)On the stage, they're good for dealing with dubious option characters like sheik or greninja who can either rush you down or pick at you with projectiles. Helps remove some of their options for a bit to give you time to set-up for the right approach.
Off-stage (by@powerhouse)
Not really too great but worth mentioning. When you're recovering, often you need to put out a hitbox to protect you during your harmless upb. The can is usually ideal for this but sometimes it's stuck on the stage, gunmen can make a good makeshift in this case. Just release him while you're high-ish so he'd be stage level after falling, this locks them on the stage long enough to mess with their timing hopefully.
Hopefully this will encourage the other pups out there to use their bandito friends more often, they are very versatile and come out much faster than DH's other projectiles. Cheers!
If I may, since nobody else has given them any names...
(From left to right) Rifleman, Dual Pistols, Bandito, Sheriff and Thomas (or Coat, I like Thomas better...)
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