Thought I'd ask the experts what they think...

[LanceGardner]

I'm probably going to get blasted for having missed out a lot of people. Mainly Geno. Anyway, I used to post here, at least I think it was here, everything was pretty different. So when I wrote this article I thought about getting your opinion:

http://whatculture.com/gaming/25-characters-to-consider-for-the-next-super-smash-bros.php

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Why do you think Bomberman has any chance at all?

All his games were cancelled for a reason. His studio is in major trouble and he may never resurface

your percentages are horrible

And yeah, Geno is my number one choice. At least he's been mentioned before. Banjo has 0%, not 5%. He's owned by Microsoft

 

[LanceGardner]

Why do you think Bomberman has any chance at all?

All his games were cancelled for a reason. His studio is in major trouble and he may never resurface

your percentages are horrible

Because he's a major Nintendo icon, would stand out from the over characters and has a game coming out for the VC.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Because he's a major Nintendo icon, would stand out from the over characters and has a game coming out for the VC.

Except he's NOT a Nintendo character. He's 3rd party

 

[LanceGardner]

Except he's NOT a Nintendo character. He's 3rd party

Who had the majority of his successful hits on Nintendo consoles. Goldeneye is a major Nintendo hit, even though it was made by Rare. Bomberman is associated with Nintendo consoles.

Anyway, I agree Banjo is 0%. I just hoped to see him, tbh.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Who had the majority of his successful hits on Nintendo consoles. Goldeneye is a major Nintendo hit, even though it was made by Rare. Bomberman is associated with Nintendo consoles.

Anyway, I agree Banjo is 0%. I just hoped to see him, tbh.

He's also associated with the XBOX, having a HORRIBLE game on it

His company already has a character IN Smash, Snake.

They aren't going to get two.

His game on the 3DS was cancelled.

There is nothing pointing toward Bomberman have a high chance of getting into smash

 

[Opossum]

King K Rool has less of a "chance," apparently, than Bomberman, Rayman, Rosalina, King Boo, and other downright unlikely characters, along with being tied with a plethora of highly unlikely additional Sonic characters? Wut. And seeing Ridley's isn't much better by comparison. Barely ANY of those constituted as "likely."

Here's a comprehensive list of anyone who remotely stands a chance of getting in from that list, based on what the usual thought pattern here is:

King K. Rool
Ridley
Krystal (considered a more controversial choice here)
Waluigi (See Krystal)
Mega Man
Dixie Kong
Toad
Ghirahim (See Krystal and Waluigi)
Mii (See Krystal, Waluigi and Ghirahim)

A whopping nine out of twenty-five.

Over all, the percentages were highly off.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I disagree. Ghirahim doesn't have anything more than any of the other one shot Zelda characters that have come before him.

Midna, ...the guy Ganondorf controls from Twilight Princess, Skull Kid, etc.

I also don't believe Waluigi and Krystal have a chance, though I wouldn't be completely surprised if Waluigi got in.

 

[Opossum]

As I said, those three are debated here. I personally no longer care for any of their inclusions, but there are still a good amount of supporters around here.

 

[fogbadge]

what are you basing theses percentages on?

 

[N3ON]

Wow, there's a lot to say about this "list", I'll try to keep it short.

Firstly, I would really consider replacing like half of the list with characters that you know, actually stand a chance. I'd suggest throwing out all the 3rd party characters you have on there with the exception of Mega Man. If not, at least change their percentages to within the realm of possibility (namely between 0-10%). Also, considering how heavily populated by 3rd parties your list is, it's strange that there isn't one Namco character, a company with at least a semi-decent chance of having a character included.

Next is just the percentages in general. They almost seem to be totally random. Rosalina with 80%? King Boo with 40%? Try to keep it a little more realistic. Hell, the characters with the actual best chances on your list (K. Rool and Ridley) are both under 50%. At least you included them, I suppose. If you have any intention of changing them, I would gladly give you more accurate percentages just for purposes of realism, though you'll never get a general consensus on most percentages anyway.

Lastly, sort of related to what I said at the beginning, there are a lot of characters here that don't stand a chance, and many omissions with much better chances. And no, not Geno. As much as Psycho likes him, his chances aren't any better than a lot of these characters. I pretty much agree with Opossum over which characters you included that actually have decent chances, but I would seriously consider replacing some characters with other much more likely ones such as (but not limited to):
Palutena
Shulk
Isaac
Zoroark
Chrom
Bowser Jr.
Paper Mario
Little Mac
Takamaru
Goroh
and Mewtwo and Roy if you choose to include veterans

would all be much better and more realistic choices than most of your list.

Who had the majority of his successful hits on Nintendo consoles. Goldeneye is a major Nintendo hit, even though it was made by Rare. Bomberman is associated with Nintendo consoles.

That changes nothing. He's still a third-party character from a company already represented whose series is currently in a downward spiral resulting in very little demand. His chances are like <5% (and that's being generous), not 70%.

Also, what does Goldeneye have to do with anything? Do you see people regularly suggesting James Bond join Smash?

 

[Opossum]

Here's some help.

These are some better picks in my opinion, though there are some notes.

Notes:

Only ONE out of Black Shadow and Goroh if an F-Zero rep is chosen.
Likely only ONE of the four Mario characters.
Little Mac is not really retro. Takamaru is by far the most likely retro. Pick one of Muddy/Mach Rider for a surprise retro (fitting for the now multi-system Smash) if you choose in addition to Takamaru.
Obviously not everyone here will make it.



Generally, minus Mach Rider and Muddy for surprise retros, these are what many here find to be decent newcomer choices, although many still have things against them.

 

[LanceGardner]

Well, I'm taking on board your feedback, although I wish some of it was more positive. Of course, you're always going to be the harshest audience.

Firstly, I'm including Geno. Missing him out was an oversight, and will be corrected as soon as the editor gets my email. Apart from that, and regarding the %s, I'm afraid it's difficult for me to edit them at this stage. However, I will say that it's highly subjective and I doubt that anyone could come up with a list like this which 'everyone' would be in agreement with. I had a stab, and hopefully I included at least the most likely characters as people here think of them, even if some of those that personally seem likely to me are controversial. In my defence, it's a whole lot easier to criticise something like this than to make it. Thanks for taking the time to look at it and please continue letting me know what you think.

 

[N3ON]

@Opossum
I see Muddy has made yet another appearance in a character pool among other choices much more likely than him.

Overall though, that pool seems about right, though I'd keep Krystal and Ghirahim on there, not because I think they're especially likely, but sadly because they were far from the most unlikely on the list, and because I'd probably put them in the top 25 anyway.

 

[LanceGardner]

Damnit. I agree Baby Bowser is possible. I'll see if I can edit at a later stage, so continue to put your feedback in here. The choices which I see a lot of people agreeing are likely, I will do my best to edit them into the article in a couple of months, after some kind of agreement has been reached.

 

[Opossum]

Just trying to raise awareness Neon. I know he's not the most likely, just a possible surprise.

 

[N3ON]

Well, I'm taking on board your feedback, although I wish some of it was more positive. Of course, you're always going to be the harshest audience.

We're harsh because we care.

Firstly, I'm including Geno. Missing him out was an oversight, and will be corrected as soon as the editor gets my email. Apart from that, and regarding the %s, I'm afraid it's difficult for me to edit them at this stage. However, I will say that it's highly subjective and I doubt that anyone could come up with a list like this which 'everyone' would be in agreement with. I had a stab, and hopefully I included at least the most likely characters as people here think of them, even if some of those that personally seem likely to me are controversial. In my defence, it's a whole lot easier to criticise something like this than to make it. Thanks for taking the time to look at it and please continue letting me know what you think.

Fair enough, though does this mean the characters on the list will remain there and more will just be added at a later time, or will some end up getting replaced? Otherwise it could start turning into one of those lists with like fifty characters on it...

Damnit. I agree Baby Bowser is possible. I'll see if I can edit at a later stage, so continue to put your feedback in here. The choices which I see a lot of people agreeing are likely, I will do my best to edit them into the article in a couple of months, after some kind of agreement has been reached.

Good to hear, though make sure you don't call him Baby Bowser or that'll just cause more problems, as Baby Bowser and Bowser Jr. are quite different, even if aesthetically similar.

Just trying to raise awareness Neon. I know he's not the most likely, just a possible surprise.

I know, I was just joking. It wouldn't be an Opossum list without Muddy on it.

 

[LanceGardner]

Fair enough, though does this mean the characters on the list will remain there and more will just be added at a later time, or will some end up getting replaced? Otherwise it could start turning into one of those lists with like fifty characters on it...

Depending on the quantity of feasible suggestions I see here, I'll do one or the other. If there's about 5 big names I haven't included I'll probably just edit the existing article, for example combining the Gruntilda and Banjo-Kazooie entries, and the Robotnik and Tails/Amy/Knuckles/Shadow entries, so as to free up space and keep the overall total under 30. If there's a huge number of names I've forgotten that seem likely, I might take the total tally up to 50, separate the Tails/Amy/Knuckles/Shadow entries, and try to create what might be seen as 'the definitive list.'

 

[LanceGardner]

Updated. Fixed some of the %s too. What do you think now?

 

[fogbadge]

Updated. Fixed some of the %s too. What do you think now?

id say your being unrealistic about the chances of there being another sonic character

 

[LanceGardner]

Fair enough. Anyone else? :D

 

[Opossum]

I still say to just cut the Banjo Kazooie characters entirely, considering they literally can't get in, as they're owned by Microsoft. It's not a 5% chance, it's a 0%.

That being said, that amount of third parties in the list is too da...okay, I'll stop myself before finishing the reference. Seriously, though, it's too high. I'd say drop Bomber Man, the additional Sonic characters, Leon Kennedy, Rayman, Crono, Viewtful Joe, Earthworm Jim, and Geno entirely, leaving only Mega Man.

Here's why. During Brawl's development, Sakurai stated that he doesn't want a ton of third parties. This'll probably still hold true. The bar is also set quite high. Sonic the Hedgehog, the undisputed most-wanted character for Brawl, barely got in on time, despite requests. Mega Man isn't even Sonic-level, but he comes the closest...by far. The support for others is practically non-existent. Honestly, the only non-Mega Man third party character that should really be on there is, as Neon said, a Namco rep. They may lack requests, but Namco-Bandai is helping to make the game, so they at least have a reason.


Even still, barring third parties, the list lacks the more popular characters and instead includes some unpopular, and frankly bad, choices.

Some that stand out like a sore thumb are King Boo, E. Gadd, additional Trainers, Paula and Rosalina. With King Boo, E. Gadd, and Rosalina, there is already too much competition within the Mario series between the likes of the more popular choices (Toad, Waluigi, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario). These choices come up close to never. Paula is from a series that gets little requests to begin with. Even then, she is outshone by Masked Man, Porky, and Kumatora in Japan. The Pokemon slot is a different can of worms, with people with their own opinions on Mewtwo, Lucario, Zoroark, Genesect, etc. These guys don't seem to have the popularity to get in under these conditions.

As said before, even then, the choices of Waluigi, Krystal, Masked Link, and Ghirahim are questionable at best, but still better than the former five.

Over all, try doing some replacements...

 

[LanceGardner]

For example?

 

[Opossum]

Like, drop the ones I mentioned in my previous post and add some characters from the pool I posted on the last page.

 

[kikaru]

I'm definitely no expert but I'll put down my opinions here. This is going off of the fact that the roster won't expand much and that the inclusion of third party characters might be limited.

King K.: Comparatively he has one of the highest chances to be included in the next smash. Strong fanbase, great character, fits in the Smash World.

Krystal: Chances aren't very high she will make it in unless they cut Wolf which I would imagine is a very split decision among fans.

Shadow/Tails/Knuckles/Amy: I do not believe that the Sonic series deserves an additional representative as there are other more important Nintendo series such as Donkey Kong that need it more.

Bomberman: More deserving 3rd party characters take priority over him.

Rosalina: Make her an alternate costume for Peach. Though I like the idea unfortunately Toad and Bowser Jr. are more recurring characters with a stronger fanbase. However, I personally don't want to see another representative for Mario because Zelda and Pokemon would also most likely receive a 5th rep, and if the roster is to hover around 35-40 then we're going to see much less variety in terms of series represented in Smash.

Leon: This is actually a solid choice in my opinion. Smash could use more mature characters and Resident Evil is definitely an extremely popular series. Leon's only problem is that he has to compete with Megaman to get the spot for Capcom. If multiple Capcom characters make it in, (I'm not counting on it) then he'll definitely have a better shot of getting in.

Rayman: Is a very interesting choice. Personally I think characters such as Isaac, Little Mac, and Shulk are more deserving of a spot though.

Crono: Square Enix. Copyrights. That may change though and if it does he has A LOT of competition with characters such as Cloud, Sora, and Geno.

Masked Link: I personally would LOVE to see this guy in Smash and replace the Link clones that has been ever so prominent in the series. Plus it will bring more attention to a Majora's Mask remake on the 3DS.

Dr Robotnik: Same reason as the rest of the Sonic crew.

Paula: I see more popularity for Masked Man than Paula, at least on the forums here. Personally I would insist on cutting Lucas and leaving Ness as the rep for Earthbound. If they brought around a new game with a new main character then that character would replace Lucas.

Waluigi: As cool and popular as he is I would rather see other characters such as Shulk, Megaman, and Isaac due to the limiting roster size. He definitely has a good chance but I personally would like to see other characters than him.

Banjo&Kazooie: Again, I would LOVE to see the inclusion of these guys but they won't be included for the same reason as any Square Enix character. Copyrights.

Gruntilda: Copyrights.

Viewtiful Joe: Same as Leon Kennedy.

Megaman: Strongest choice to represent Capcom.

Pokemon Trainers: Too many characters if they all had different mechanics than Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard. (Not all of them know the same moves for one.) I would like to see Piplup, Bayleef, and Blaziken to represent generations II-IV. (Replace the current Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard) (Victini/Zoroark would represent 5th gen)

Dixie Kong: King K. Rool > Dixie Kong. If for some reason the Donkey Kong series received 4 representatives then she is definitely a possibility.

Professor E. Gadd: Would be an interesting Assist Trophy.

Ridley: Same reason as King K.

Toad: Definitely has a good chance of getting in, especially being playable in more and more games. But for the same reason as Rosalina I would rather not have the Mario series get 5 reps.

Ghirahim: See Toad.

Earthworm Jim: See Bomberman

King Boo: See Toad.

Geno: See Crono.

Mii: Has a chance but I want to ask this: Would a Mii truly fit in the Smash World? Personally I do not see it so my stance is that a Mii is less deserving than Shulk, Little Mac, Megaman, etc. What makes Super Smash a great concept? The fact that it is a crossover of characters from some of the best and most popular games in history. I feel like a Mii would simply take away from that. And if Mii's ever became a competitive character for Smash I feel like there would only be very few sizes/selection to maximize competitive use which actually limits character creation if anything. -Strong personal bias.

Overall most of these characters either have to put up with copyright issues or that they're not deserving enough.

Characters who I would like to see who also have a shot:
King K. Ridley, 5th gen Pokemon (Victini or Zoroark to replace Lucario), Masked Link, Megaman, Isaac, Shulk, and Lloyd Irving (Namco Bandai is helping to develop the game. I believe that Lloyd better represents Namco than Pac-Man for reasons in the Roster Prediction Thread.)

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't agree there are more deserving than Bomberman, but I don't believe he's got any shot. Mega Man and Pac Man sure, but Bomberman is somewhere up there as far as I'm concerned.

Earthworm Jim is NOT Sega

What is with this thing where EVERYONE seems to confuse who owns Earthworm Jim?

 

[kikaru]

I don't agree there are more deserving than Bomberman, but I don't believe he's got any shot. Mega Man and Pac Man sure, but Bomberman is somewhere up there as far as I'm concerned.

Earthworm Jim is NOT Sega

What is with this thing where EVERYONE seems to confuse who owns Earthworm Jim?

Whoops my bad, my only experience with Earthworm Jim was on Sega and I guess I never looked into it much. If that's not the case I'll fix it, thanks.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I played the super nintendo version

Also Earthworm Jim has a small cameo in DKC 2

 

[N3ON]

People don't know who owns Earthworm Jim because his publisher keeps changing. Doesn't really matter though, the only way he'd get into Smash would be if this was the mid-90s instead of 2012.

And yeah, he sort of has a cameo, but it's not like he actually appears, and there's no way it was licensed.

 

[DPSnumber1]

I think little Mac, Takamaru, Saki/Isa, Palutena and Isaac have better chances than many of the characters of the list. If you read some posts here, you may realize that they fit better in a smah game.
I also support krystal, K.K.rool, Dixie, Ridley and Waluigi because they would get good movesets for the next game.
It's dificult to guess which thirth-party character will be in the next game, but I really want pac-man, megaman, bomberman and crono.
Even I believe that characters like mach rider or ballon fighter have better chances if Sakurai uses his imagination to give them good movesets.

 

[D3monicWolv3s]

30% for Paula? I think she's one of the most unlikely out of pretty much the entire remaining earthbound/mother 3 cast.

Masked man and porky have such a bigger shot at being playable than her.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I am 90% sure that there will be no more playable Sonic characters.
65% sure that there will be no more Mario characters
85% sure there will be no new pokemon reps (Well maybe Zoroark) for SSB4

 

[3Bismyname]

shoot im 99.9% sure there wont be new Sonic characters. hell we dont even know if Sonic is going to return

 

[Reyson]

I think you should definitely keep characters like Banjo Kazooie, Sonic additional characters, an oddball like Leon Kennedy in your list because it helps less informed people know about their chances.
Yes, you could just go to the poll in this forum and check which are the highest ranked there but that would make for a boring and predictable article. It's definitely worth checking out some likely candidates but there are many other characters that people would like but are unlikely/impossible for other reasons.

 

[LanceGardner]

I think you should definitely keep characters like Banjo Kazooie, Sonic additional characters, an oddball like Leon Kennedy in your list because it helps less informed people know about their chances.
Yes, you could just go to the poll in this forum and check which are the highest ranked there but that would make for a boring and predictable article. It's definitely worth checking out some likely candidates but there are many other characters that people would like but are unlikely/impossible for other reasons.

Yes, thanks. I'm going to keep looking at this thread and forum, and the major choices I skipped will be added into the article, probably in January.

 

[TheJohnMonster]

Why do you think Bomberman has any chance at all?

All his games were cancelled for a reason. His studio is in major trouble and he may never resurface

your percentages are horrible

And yeah, Geno is my number one choice. At least he's been mentioned before. Banjo has 0%, not 5%. He's owned by Microsoft

I agree with you, its general opinion with people that have some knowledge on these threads that K.Rool, Ridley, and Megaman are more of in the 90% regions.