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Smash 3DS this game 's major set back, BLAST ZONES (good & bad)

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Scourge The Hedgehog

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On the contrary. A few friends and I have tested it and it helps with positioning tilts, smash attacks, and even specials. It really helps Mega Man out the most from a Demo prospective. Just like how wave dashing was useful for both positioning and mix ups this is a pretty decent substitute. Do it a few times to mix up on the opponent and do a reversal Forward Smash. The alternative is just the Shield Canceling you can do when dashing. These are only a few found movement options for the game within a few days. Just imagine what will be found with the game goes globally. Melee is STILL finding new things. What we see today from Melee today wasn't built in a single night.
 

ToadsterOven

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I like fast pace matches it is hard to get that with people living past 200%
*shrugs* not that hard if you commit to off stage game, meteor smashes, edgeguard attacks that guarantee a KO :)
 
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Your post looks like a blast zone with all those caps. :p

Anyway, I see no problem with them. A good meteor smash or smash attack never fails. It's still just as easy to land kills as before.
 

Untouch

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If you plan it out and land on a ledge right after your enemy, you can push them off and put them into a position where they can be spiked easily.

Smash 4 just has a new meta, it isn't about waiting on the stage and knocking people to the side anymore.
 

Azizibesmashing

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Dude.

Offstage combat.
There are other more well organized threads with better lead posts to give your opinion on this.

The blast zones are big but as many have said there are ways around this and you taking such issue with it is more a testament to how much you probably need to practice, not a flaw in the game.

coming from the man who said in his own stream "these blast zones are terrible this. there so big . i think a lot of people are going to be upset about this .2 stocks would be more suitable"
m2k then said 4 then u argued for a second. bro i support everything u do so stop being the worlds biggest doushe bag. (i know the correct spelling) .. meh
but what do i know bro I'm just me.

No offense but what you just said made it seem like we cannot make our own judgments based on viewing game play and hearing commentary from players. Many of us have played the Demo which is the final build of the game. Yes the blast zones from when I played were stupidly larger than the previous games however I could still kill people around 100-130%. I understand this is your personal opinion and I respect it but we're trying to give you suggestions on how to over come it. Did you see the Clash Tournament Invitation Tournament? The stocks were dropping like crazy really early from characters like Zelda, Ness, Fox, Link, Yoshi, and Little Mac. Of course we disregard Little Mac since he can kill you around 50% (35% if he lands the KO punch).

Zero continuously defeated his opponents with different characters at decent percents as well. Vex did too. All the streams showing off the game proved multiple times that you could KO the opponent quickly if you set up and use the proper attacks.

Again you are allowed your opinion but we are also allowed our input. Otherwise it would not be a discussion thread.

The size of your font hurts my eyes hah.
and @ Scourge The Hedgehog Scourge The Hedgehog my bad .
im not saying know ones opinion counts. but the game actually feels extremely different. so yea
you can say that it needs more skill or another reason . but when you have it in your hands you will completely understand my frustration. it doesn't make it any better the ads controllers are so different
but its extremely tedious. i hit you with a neutral air off stage and a fair and your at %99 and we are well of the stage but his survival is still almost 50/50.. i have had quick kills to trust me. i love smash bros but i love FIGHTING GAMES in general its a passion to me. the game is amazing. I'm not even loosing the battles I'm playing. i just spend way to much time doing fancy techniques that might not have a promising outcome.

marvel vs capcom 1-2 were killer games. but 3 changed so much that the M vs C legacy in my opinion has ended. i don't want that to ever happen to smash

people forget. I'm just someone sharing my thoughts on a thread. its annoying. if you have loved the previous smashes you will think its annoying. it doesn't keen the game is bad

I'm going to edit the op because i think you some of y'all take things to literal.
its not about winning or loosing. I'm contemp with my skill and down to play and train with anyone on this thread..
but its just like the ads console itself... you will not believe its potential until you actually see it with your own eyes
 
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JamietheAuraUser

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I like fast pace matches it is hard to get that with people living past 200%
As was said earlier by many people including myself: If they're easily living past 200%, it's probably because you're spamming your KO moves as if they were damage-rackers, or because they're simply not committing to anything that would let you get a read. Zipzo himself tended to fall into this with Sonic's UAir, since it is such a good combo-ending tool but also one of Sonic's best kill moves. He also tended to go for Back Throw by default even when the foe was not at KO percent.

All of that said, I don't have the game or even the demo yet, so we'll see if I end up having the same problems of using launcher moves too often. I'm definitely gonna watch out for that though, and try to do my usual thing with jab combos and tilts before going for Smashes.
 

Xcano

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If you knock them out far enough, won't they just not be able to get back onto the stage? Or are you saying that the characters are very "heavy" and hard to knock around in the first place?
 

Azizibesmashing

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As was said earlier by many people including myself: If they're easily living past 200%, it's probably because you're spamming your KO moves as if they were damage-rackers, or because they're simply not committing to anything that would let you get a read. Zipzo himself tended to fall into this with Sonic's UAir, since it is such a good combo-ending tool but also one of Sonic's best kill moves. He also tended to go for Back Throw by default even when the foe was not at KO percent.

All of that said, I don't have the game or even the demo yet, so we'll see if I end up having the same problems of using launcher moves too often. I'm definitely gonna watch out for that though, and try to do my usual thing with jab combos and tilts before going for Smashes.

but your opinion is felt brotha:bee:
 

Azizibesmashing

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but your opinion is felt brotha:bee:
If you knock them out far enough, won't they just not be able to get back onto the stage? Or are you saying that the characters are very "heavy" and hard to knock around in the first place?

Dude.

Offstage combat.

50% kills are a thing. Especially if you have a better recovery than your opponent.
as in the characters always go flying , but they tend to float back on stage. and when you jump off stage to show your smash kills theres still a large possibility they can make it back on stage. thats all. but khao, this game is amazing I'm just sharing the frustration .
 
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Xcano

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I'm guessing that this was done to prevent abuse of characters with powerful down/side attacks
 

Saikyoshi

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I really don't think the blast zones are as big as Brawl's. I could be wrong, but I don't think they are.
 

Roxas215

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Everyone who is saying "Just adapt" or "Save your kill moves" don't know what they talking about. This is a REAL problem. I played over 30 matches today on my friend japenese copy.

Countless times i went OFFSTAGE and attacked around the 130-170 percent mark and landed the "supposed" finishing blow AND THEY STILL LIVING. This isn't a case of not knowing how to kill. This isn't a case of not take the risk and going off stage. YOUR DOING ALL OF THIS FOR NO REWARD.

Combine the huge blast zones with the lack of proper edge hogging and u just have matches that last long just for the sake of lasting long rather then lasting long because 2 players are of equal skill. It's VERY frustrating playing against someone you know your better then and just watching them survive based off the mechancis of the game rather then their own skill level.

Some characters do kill early(Bowser,Ike.Zard to name a few) but this is really going to be a problem i think. Hopefully the wii u version is different. I fail to see how no one reported this issue at the e3 invitational if the blast zones were this huge in the wii u dmeo.
 
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Azizibesmashing

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Everyone who is saying "Just adapt" or "Save your kill moves" don't know what they talking about. This is a REAL problem. I played over 30 matches today on my friend japenese copy.

Countless times i went OFFSTAGE and attacked around the 130-170 percent mark and landed the "supposed" finishing blow AND THEY STILL LIVING. This isn't a case of not knowing how to kill. This isn't a case of not take the risk and going off stage. YOUR DOING ALL OF THIS FOR NO REWARD.

Some characters do kill early(Bowser,Ike.Zard to name a few) but this is really going to be a problem i think. Hopefully the wii u version is different. I fail to see how no one reported this issue at the e3 invitational if the blast zones were this huge in the wii u dmeo.

honestly right now i love you.... you played it and you understand. :)
its still fun right? its just a bit tedious

thanks for backing me up man
 

ToadsterOven

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Everyone who is saying "Just adapt" or "Save your kill moves" don't know what they talking about. This is a REAL problem. I played over 30 matches today on my friend japenese copy.

Countless times i went OFFSTAGE and attacked around the 130-170 percent mark and landed the "supposed" finishing blow AND THEY STILL LIVING. This isn't a case of not knowing how to kill. This isn't a case of not take the risk and going off stage. YOUR DOING ALL OF THIS FOR NO REWARD.

Combine the huge blast zones with the lack of proper edge hogging and u just have matches that last long just for the sake of lasting long rather then lasting long because 2 players are of equal skill. It's VERY frustrating playing against someone you know your better then and just watching them survive based of the mechancis of the game rather then their own skill level.

Some characters do kill early(Bowser,Ike.Zard to name a few) but this is really going to be a problem i think. Hopefully the wii u version is different. I fail to see how no one reported this issue at the e3 invitational if the blast zones were this huge in the wii u dmeo.
Did you try meteor smashs?
 

Reila

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Everyone who is saying "Just adapt" or "Save your kill moves" don't know what they talking about. This is a REAL problem. I played over 30 matches today on my friend Japanese copy.
No, it isn't a real problem. You people are nitpicking trying to find problems where there are not.
 

Roxas215

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honestly right now i love you.... you played it and you understand. :)
its still fun right? its just a bit tedious
thanks for backing me up man
It's still fun. Definitely!


Did you try meteor smashs?
Peach doesn't have one lol. Honestly i found out it's really just the sides. Vertical kills still kill at reasonable percent.

This is gonna divide the viability of characters. I think (at the very least early on in the metagame) Characters will good meteor spikes or characters that can kill of the top well will be seen alot more then the others (Poor peach has neither lol)


No, it isn't a real problem. You people are nitpicking trying to find problems where there are not.
Right........ Tons of competitve players left and right are complaning about the blast zones. But it's not a problem..........................
 
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I don't deny the change is jarring but you're about a week late to the party.

I did say at first (and btw your "quote" is utterly inaccurate) that the blast zones were big, and that is a fact. I also did say that 2 stocks felt pretty workable, but so did everyone else playing the game.

At this point it's never my excuse for losing. You learn to overcome it.
 
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ToadsterOven

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It's still fun. Definitely!




Peach doesn't have one lol. Honestly i found out it's really just the sides. Vertical kills still kill at reasonable percent.

This is gonna divide the viability of characters. I think (at the very least early on in the metagame) Characters will good meteor spikes or characters that can kill of the top well will be seen alot more then the others (Poor peach has neither lol)




Right........ Tons of competitve players left and right are complaning about the blast zones. But it's not a problem..........................
I understand it can be a bit of a frustration, but Smash Bros imo has never really encouraged offstage gameplay to the extent that 4 is. Once we get more acquainted with the whole flow of the game, characters living up to 180 to 200% damage should be the least of our issues I pray. If anything, at least this new game is patchable and if enough of us complain to Nintendo about the long blast zones, it can potentially be addressed. :)

Btw, in Project M for those who play it a lot, don't the characters also live for a quite a bit compared to Melee?
 

Azizibesmashing

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I don't deny the charge is jarring but you're about a week late to the party.

I did say at first (and btw your "quote" is utterly inaccurate) that the blast zones were big, and that is a fact. I also did say that 2 stocks felt pretty workable, but so did everyone else playing the game.

At this point it's never my excuse for losing. You learn to overcome it.
no excuses.
I never said i was loosing. if I'm a week late cool.
i just had 2 shows over the weekend in LA and can't read through all the forums.
its just annoying. like you even said

I understand it can be a bit of a frustration, but Smash Bros imo has never really encouraged offstage gameplay to the extent that 4 is. Once we get more acquainted with the whole flow of the game, characters living up to 180 to 200% damage should be the least of our issues I pray. If anything, at least this new game is patchable and if enough of us complain to Nintendo about the long blast zones, it can potentially be addressed. :)

Btw, in Project M for those who play it a lot, don't the characters also live for a quite a bit compared to Melee?
yea its more of a frustrating thing you know, it doesnt meen the game sucks. i love it. but jesus lol
 
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Roxas215

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I understand it can be a bit of a frustration, but Smash Bros imo has never really encouraged offstage gameplay to the extent that 4 is. Once we get more acquainted with the whole flow of the game, characters living up to 180 to 200% damage should be the least of our issues I pray. If anything, at least this new game is patchable and if enough of us complain to Nintendo about the long blast zones, it can potentially be addressed. :)

Btw, in Project M for those who play it a lot, don't the characters also live for a quite a bit compared to Melee?
I play PM daily. 80-120% kills are frequent and will be even more so in the next patch due to the recovery nerf(This is mostly based to quick gimps due to proper edge hogging. This isn't possible in Smash 4. PM main complaint is the brain dead recoveries. Not that people are living too long.)


I do agree that as time goes on we will get better at the off stage game. Still what's mine(and i think many others discussing this topic) complaint is these huge blast zones often makes the risk of going off stage at reasonable kill percent not worth it because they probably going to end up living anyway.
 

Scourge The Hedgehog

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Just take a look at these best of five matches. You'll see these two top notch players killing one another in the range of 100-140% range. The blast zones are a problem yes but you see all the suggestions we made with Edge Guarding, Meteor Spikes, Grab Kills, Charged Smash attacks, and saving your KO moves for later. You'll notice these two aren't constantly throwing out the same moves in order to save them from being stale.

Honestly it'll feel weird at first but once the meta has evolved we'll see quicker matches. I'm not trying to argue but I feel like this thread is stirring up a whole "You guys are wrong because you haven't played" feel.
 

SmashWolf

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Make the blast zones about 10 to 20% smaller, and nobody would mind, everybody would be happy, problem would be solved. I think most could agree on that. Now just for Nintendo to agree....

Also, living beyond 200% is EXTREMELY rare, and a total exaggeration.
 

Azizibesmashing

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Just take a look at these best of five matches. You'll see these two top notch players killing one another in the range of 100-140% range. The blast zones are a problem yes but you see all the suggestions we made with Edge Guarding, Meteor Spikes, Grab Kills, Charged Smash attacks, and saving your KO moves for later. You'll notice these two aren't constantly throwing out the same moves in order to save them from being stale.

Honestly it'll feel weird at first but once the meta has evolved we'll see quicker matches. I'm not trying to argue but I feel like this thread is stirring up a whole "You guys are wrong because you haven't played" feel.

yea i don't want it to be like that, i just want people to be aware, i edited the OP because of your insight. thanks

@ SmashWolf SmashWolf thats right on the money. couldn't have said it even better
 

Illuvial

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I do think its harder to kill than in any other game, and edge guarding has been severely nerfed and its a lot easier to get back on stage now. With that said, I also think that DI isn't as effective this time around, so I feel like this game is just catering to a more inexperienced crowd than even Brawl, just in a different way than Brawl tried to. Its really good, its amazing in fact, but its definitely got some glaring issues that I REALLY don't like
 

Azizibesmashing

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its like this - if you do not learn how to edge guard on an incredible level.
your skills on stage will not matter as much.
thats cool but i love having more options
 

Scourge The Hedgehog

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@ Azizibesmashing Azizibesmashing No worries. I just wanted to let you know once the game comes out globally we'll all learn better ways to get those early kills. Keep at it man!
 

Roxas215

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its like this - if you do not learn how to edge guard on an incredible level.
your skills on stage will not matter as much.
thats cool but i love having more options
That's exactly how i feel. These blast zones bascially don't reward you for your on stage presence. It's NEVER been like that in any other smash game. Even brawl.
 

Azizibesmashing

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@ Azizibesmashing Azizibesmashing No worries. I just wanted to let you know once the game comes out globally we'll all learn better ways to get those early kills. Keep at it man!
thanks bro, when u get smash find me and we will spar!

That's exactly how i feel. These blast zones bascially don't reward you for your on stage presence. It's NEVER been like that in any other smash game. Even brawl.
exactly my dude.
 

Acryte

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Accept that it is more likely that SOME characters will have KO and gimp potential, and the others will likely become invalid for competitive use. I'm not emotionally invested, and surely it's too soon to judge, as maybe some new universal mechanics will surface that we don't know about and change the game.... but all the people who say 'we just gotta get better' and 'it won't be like this for long' need to accept the nature and playstyle of the game. So far, every indication is that edgeguarding options are ineffective for most characters. Some have the tools, most do not. Press to evolve this fresh new meta and keep your hopes for the future, but be fully willing to either accept and play or reject and abandon this game provided what we see is what we get. Just like before Brawl came out and so many people were like "We don't know this is going to be the final product guys, it's still the demo and it could change" were the same types of individuals saying the exact same thing about the smash 4 demo. The funny part is that when you say those words, you are effectively saying you're partial to gameplay that isn't represented by the product you've been exposed to, and that you're hoping it changes before release. After release, these same individuals typically conform at all costs trying to sell themselves to love a game for various reasons.

You shouldn't have to sell yourself on the game, either you like it or you don't. I see plenty of people who like Brawl, just maybe not competitively, and plenty of others who do like Brawl competitively. Who gives a ****? These stupid denial comments that pray that the game will suddenly evolve and be different from what it currently is just make me sad. They're all *******. Get with the program, and be ready and willing to accept it provided it turns out to be exactly what it looks like. That being said, a lot of people like playing it regardless of if it turns out to be competitive. I'll probably scrap around in it too just to beat down on my casual homies.
 
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Whiteface

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I can feel what you're saying but it doesn't seem as detrimental to the game as a whole. I more or less agree with the general consensus here. That being said. Watching these early tourneys has been a -hoot- seeing the commentators shout "OH Snap! Awesome K.oh... He survived?"
 

Clicky

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I love the blast zones. Are they large? Definitely. But like many have pointed out, it feels like a lot of characters have great recovery, so that means recovering and chasing are both more viable, which, in my opinion, makes for really interesting play with strategies begging to be developed.

More than anything else I'm surprised you're seeing 200% regularly. 99% of the time that I see anyone's percent over 200% it was preceded by the words "sudden death."
 

Methacrylate

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Make the blast zones about 10 to 20% smaller, and nobody would mind, everybody would be happy, problem would be solved. I think most could agree on that. Now just for Nintendo to agree....
There are really two ways to fix this issue (if it is an issue): make the blast zones smaller or increase the knockback of all moves equally. In my limited experience with the game, the blast zones feel similar to Brawl while the knockback feels somewhat stunted. In the end, it is probably a combination of factors and not entirely the blast zones if at all.
 
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pugwishbone17

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Honestly, I think there is just as fault on the fact that damage seems to rack up so much slower. Like from a lot of the matches I've seen 5-6 hits will only bring someone up to like 25%
 

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There are really two ways to fix this issue (if it is an issue): make the blast zones smaller or increase the knockback of all moves equally. In my limited experience with the game, the blast zones feel similar to Brawl while the knockback feels somewhat stunted. In the end, it is probably a combination of factors and not entirely the blast zones if at all.
Were the knockback changed, it would screw with the balance of the game and alot of potential combo. Changing the blast zones, however, would only make players die a little earlier, and make those smashes that SHOULD've killed in the first place actually kill.
 

Chakra-X

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Unless playing against human players is dramatically different than Level 9 CPUs when it comes to recovery, I don't really mind the bigger blast zones. I have been playing the demo for over 8 hours and still find myself KOing at 90-130%, even less if I meteor smash/gimp. From what I understand the effect of DI has been weakened to this kind of counters that? I don't really think it's a big enough change to negatively effect the game.

All the character in the demo have viable aerials for the more tenacious recoveries, and I never felt that my "work" on damage building on the stage was not rewarded properly. Typically when I see that red flash, they are set to be KO'd, or I just go off the stage to attack, which I have always done in previous smash installments because I LOVE meteor smashes.

I think it's just a minority of folks setting Melee, or even Brawl, as a standard to compare to, which make sense. It's way too overzealous to proclaim that the game is now lesser because it takes a little more damage to KO a character. A lot of moves have had their knock back reduced it seems, and coupled with the reduced landing lag and increased speed of the game, damage building is even easier. I personally love the new ledge grabbing mechanic because ledge hog kills were rarely fun to watch/execute. If the blast zones for both games were swapped, people would say they die so much earlier in Smash 4 because of the shrunken blast zones. Smash 4 just needs to have it's own standards.
 
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RascalTheCharizard

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UP AIR WITH SHIEK.....%120 smh
Okay first of all, I've seen Up Air connect below 100% and then kill multiple times already against lots of different characters (in fact, it seems best to use it below 100 because that's the best damage range for comboing into it).

And secondly, 120 really isn't that high, even by Melee's standards. It's once you get past 130 (especially 150) that something's going wrong.
smash 4 is its own game.
We know this.
Watching and playing something are extremely different.
Okay.
this is me sharing my only negative about this game

most of my kills are off stage. its just not as effective as it has been in the past.
thats all I'm saying. super possible and for sure there. but its annoying
That's fine. Nothing wrong with expressing negative opinions. I personally encourage it actually. Can you imagine how boring life would be if it was all just one big circlejerk?

I'm just saying that I've heard the blastzone complaints a lot (I think we should have a thread dedicated to any and all blastzone discussion, honestly) and I think some people inflate how bad it is. I personally think the issue is characters' best KO moves being hard to land, not the blastzones being too big. But that's just me. As you said, I haven't played the game yet (or even the demo, but that will change in a couple of days).
 
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Azizibesmashing

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Okay first of all, I've seen Up Air connect below 100% and then kill multiple times already against lots of different characters (in fact, it seems best to use it below 100 because that's the best damage range for comboing into it).

And secondly, 120 really isn't that high, even by Melee's standards. It's once you get past 130 (especially 150) that something's going wrong.

We know this.

Okay.

That's fine. Nothing wrong with expressing negative opinions. I personally encourage it actually. Can you imagine how boring life would be if it was all just one big circlejerk?

I'm just saying that I've heard the blastzone complaints a lot (I think we should have a thread dedicated to any and all blastzone discussion, honestly) and I think some people inflate how bad it is. I personally think the issue is characters' best KO moves being hard to land, not the blastzones being too big. But that's just me. As you said, I haven't played the game yet (or even the demo, but that will change in a couple of days).


all good, maybe you will feel same way when it in your hands maybe not. its still a great game and I'm stoked for u too get it
 

Freduardo

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
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2,400
I've only played the demo (with friends, multiple codes is great) in non item omega and regular and have seen deaths under 100%

Villager high powered reflect (or even better, double reflect)

Or mario cape some fully charged shots.

Fully Charged Mega Man shot hitting while edge guarding someone.

Bow to prevent recovery jumps while edge guarding.

Spiking.

Numerous items.

Unless the physics magically change between the demo and the release, I find myself in personal disagreement.
 
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