Smash 3DS this game 's major set back, BLAST ZONES (good & bad)

[Azizibesmashing]

Before Reading this. Understand a few things, thank you
1) [sorry for my caps, its how i talk when I'm excited]
*edit* unfortunately I'm editing it because you are taking it to literal.
*edit* I have jumped off the edge plenty of times to fight my battles.
plenty of amazing edge guarding and great timing. there is still a huge chance that your opponent will survive. this is my reason for the post.
2) Also keep in mind it makes it more frustrating with the 3DS controllers, so just feel me for a second
3) the roster is great
the new techniques are really dope. and i keen really dope.
slides, pivots, cancels & more.
stages, modes all that is amazing.
THE GAME IS EXTREMELY FUN
(EVEN WITH ITS FEW FLAWS SPEND ALL YOUR MONEY ON THIS GAME)

but the muliplayer is a tad bit Jagged.

Now lets begin

THE MAJORITY OF PLAYERS CAN EASILY SURVIVE UNTIL %200 ( *edit* living longer is good but living longer just because is not a good thing) ......let me say that again.. i just hit you with a SMASH ATTACK and a B move and my opponent still will survive, even off stage. smh the only kills I've seen under %100 have been with ike , bowser, bowser jr, charizard, & king dede or some fluke recovery crap because my opponent doesn't know how.

Many of the matches are dragged out online.
i spend a whole minute hitting my opponent off the edge in the same spot over and over again an he helplessly lives. Even chasing them off the stage to use you amazing smash kills does not guarantee a kill. it gets frustrating. i just hit you with a neutral A (off and below the stage)) with sheik and your at %180 WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU NOT DEAD YET.

- honestly this could meen great things , it def takes skill to kill someone. this i do feels great. But sometimes when you know your opponent should be dead. they carelessly survive wether they are skilled or not skilled.

[Yea it took a while to kill someone in brawl but NOT LIKE THIS. its honestly a different.
i was hoping for faster matches (the actually fighting is fast, i keen length). but nintendo is already aware of this because they give you 2 stocks on glory mode. but something tells me there are crazy things in the game we will find out when it launches in america where we see our best matches]

but seriously the game is really great it really is great.

when you get the game you might or might not agree (maybe lol). THE BLAST ZONES are OUTRAGES AND CLUNKY. its not the end of the world but everything about this game is amazing.. they did everything right but went a different direction here.

I will get use to this but for now its just tedious. its not like I'm loosing a lot, i have a 75 percent win ratio out of 260 battles.I've spent 10 hours online since i got it. so its not like I'm complaining because I'm loosing. I'm coming from a fighting game lovers persecutive not just a smash bros lover

 

[BindingBlade]

It's not really that bad, tbh I could survive the same percentages in Brawl.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

uhhhm....its not really a big deal to me.... xD Chillax man.

 

[Renji64]

The damage control is real. But it sucks landing these heavy ko moves just for people to come right back and not die if the blastzones were normal matches would go so much faster.

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

Jeez dude. With how much you're shaking your head, I'm surprised it hasn't fallen right off.

I think this Smash needs players to learn their kill moves and utilize them to their full extent.

 

[DraginHikari]

More CAPS please... joking aside...

Honestly from what I've seen it's not that major, just will have to address certain factors moving forward really.

 

[DakotaBonez]

the roster is great
the new techniques are really dope.
stages, modes all that is amazing.
THE GAME IS EXTREMELY FUN ( DO NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE SPEND ALL YOUR MONEY ON THIS GAME)
but the muliplayer is so JAGGED smh.

I feel like the large blast zones make it so you have to commit to a KO. You gotta jump off of the ledge and spike your opponent if ya wanna finish em off. But yes, new players will take forever in a match, probably why the online is 2 stock matches.

 

[Deleted member]

Take advantage of meteor smashes, can kill 100%-150% sooner than you're saying

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

Seriously it really isn't a problem. From what I've been seeing people have learned to deal with the large blast zones by doing some of the following.

-Edge Guarding better. This will be a huge factor on how long players live. Most of the cast have amazing recoveries already but can be gimped out of them like Villager or spiked back down like against DK, Bowser, Mega Man.
-Properly figuring out which moves on their characters have the best KO potential. Characters like Little Mac, Bowser, Shulk, and Ike already have easy with this but I've seen other characters land pretty powerful blows. Practice is all these people need.

These two things alone will help with the large blast zones. Honestly there isn't a need to write the game off just because of this. Just my opinion.

 

[TryHardOliver]

Whoa. You shake your head a lot.

 

[Jexulus]

It's called a change in mechanics. Everyone's going to learn how to kill efficiently eventually. For now, though, just continue to learn.

Not trying to sound like a jerk, but I tend to act proportionally to how someone is talking.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Just start landing tipper Fsmashes with Marth or combo Dthrow -> Uair with Sheik and all of your problems will suddenly be gone.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

I'm willing to keep this thread open if you change the original post to better invoke discussion on the large blast zones instead of just making a really long rant that doesn't warrant its own thread.

Anyway, I feel like the large blast zones make it so you have to commit to a KO. You gotta jump off of the ledge and spike your opponent if ya wanna finish em off. But yes, new players will take forever in a match, probably why the online is 2 stock matches.

hey i changed it is that good?
yea i agree with you it def it is, but it still feels a little broken to me

More CAPS please... joking aside...

Honestly from what I've seen it's not that major, just will have to address certain factors moving forward really.

Just start landing tipper Fsmashes with Marth or combo Dthrow -> Uair with Sheik and all of your problems will suddenly be gone.

UP AIR WITH SHIEK.....%120 smh

It's called a change in mechanics. Everyone's going to learn how to kill efficiently eventually. For now, though, just continue to learn.

Not trying to sound like a jerk, but I tend to act proportionally to how someone is talking.

naw i feel you, i have a great percentage rate and I'm winning so I'm not complaining because I'm loosing.
its just like WTH man die already i just jumped off the stage and neutral aired you and you just recover like i didn't do the coolest crap ever to get that

 

[Khao]

Dude.

Offstage combat.

50% kills are a thing. Especially if you have a better recovery than your opponent.

 

[Azizibesmashing]

"I say this out of respect to everyone really"

if you do not own a japanese LL and are not playing
smash bros 4, you cannot relate fully just yet. I'm only warning you
smash 4 is its own game. watching and playing something are extremely different.
when you all get hands- on time with the game you will probably feel the same way for a while..

i love the game and will continue to master my skill,
but i enjoy getting back to the character screen quick wether i win or die

this is me sharing my only negative about this game

the only negative. game is awesome

sometimes you smash skills off stage that make you wanna shout when you get a kill are not as rewarding

Dude.

Offstage combat.

50% kills are a thing. Especially if you have a better recovery than your opponent.

most of my kills are off stage. its just not as effective as it has been in the past.
thats all I'm saying. super possible and for sure there. but its annoying

 

[SmashBro99]

imo watching melee and seeing who can gimp/edgehog first winning was boring as ****.

Time to actually learn how to kill.

This is perfect.

And from what I've seen (been watching a bunch of streams, and I have the demo atm) characters do have KO moves at ~100%.

 

[hichez50]

Why are characters living to 200% bad? It is pretty arbitrary. People are still brain washed by how things worked in brawl and melee. The pacing of a game isn't affected by the percents. They could make people live until 500%, but if the average attack did more damage it is just a psychological affect.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Offstage play is encouraged.

 

[Curious Villager]

I've played the demo and from that I've played I can see what you mean. But really all it did was encourage me to chase after my opponents and making sure they can't make it back at the stage and if not, I'll just plant a tree and hit them with that. (Which feels very satisfying to pull off like that imo. And yeah, I've decided to main Villager.)

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

"I say this out of respect to everyone"

if you do not own a japanese LL and are not playing
smash bros 4, you cannot relate.
smash 4 is its own game.
its different from watching someone stream it and trying to understand.
when you all get hands- on time with the game you will probably feel the same way for a while..

i love the game and will continue to master my skill,
but i enjoy getting back to the character screen quick wether i win or die

this is me sharing my only negative about this game

the only negative. game is awesome

No offense but what you just said made it seem like we cannot make our own judgments based on viewing game play and hearing commentary from players. Many of us have played the Demo which is the final build of the game. Yes the blast zones from when I played were stupidly larger than the previous games however I could still kill people around 100-130%. I understand this is your personal opinion and I respect it but we're trying to give you suggestions on how to over come it. Did you see the Clash Tournament Invitation Tournament? The stocks were dropping like crazy really early from characters like Zelda, Ness, Fox, Link, Yoshi, and Little Mac. Of course we disregard Little Mac since he can kill you around 50% (35% if he lands the KO punch).

Zero continuously defeated his opponents with different characters at decent percents as well. Vex did too. All the streams showing off the game proved multiple times that you could KO the opponent quickly if you set up and use the proper attacks.

Again you are allowed your opinion but we are also allowed our input. Otherwise it would not be a discussion thread.

Spoiler

The size of your font hurts my eyes hah.

 

[Seraphim.]

Be aggressive offstage or keep your kill moves fresh, I've seen people get kills at around 110% people will adapt soon and we'll see quicker matches.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

Honestly, there are very few people who have talen the risk to jump offstage and edgeguard. A lot of people I've seen in gameplay videos are simply waiting for the opponent to return to the stage to do anything.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

It's all about Stale Move Negation, man. I've seen Sonic's Up Smash KO at 95% with no custom equipment on Battlefield when fresh. Sonic's Up Aerial when fresh can end a combo with a KO off the top at just over 100%. If you manage to keep Sonic's FSmash fresh, it KOs at around 140%. BAir with proper placement KOs 130% or thereabouts when fresh. FAir can KO at 160% when not horribly staled. Heck, landing the Homing Attack at the right angle KOs at 160% when fresh. A fresh NAir KOs at 170%. Sonic's Back Throw when fresh can KO at 140% (though the game will almost invariably neglect to show the red lightning effect, making the KO seemingly come out of nowhere). Down Smash when fresh KOs pretty reliably at 130%. Stale Move Negation seems to be a big thing in regards to knockback especially, thanks in big part to the extended blast zones. So if your opponent is living until 200% easily, it usually means you're spamming your KO moves as if they were bread-and-butter damage dealers.

From what I've seen, there's a bigger problem with Smash 4 than just the extended blast zones in regards to why opponents live so long: To an even greater extent than in Brawl, it's extremely difficult to land a raw kill move and get that KO at anything less than 150%. Sidesteps and rolls almost universally have their intangibility come out on frame 1 from what I've seen, and even moves with a decent amount of commitment to them tend to be interruptable with a roll really early into their endlag, so simply rolling behind the foe and punishing with a Smash Attack doesn't work like it did in Brawl anymore as the opponent will usually just roll away as well. That said, a lot of moves that previously had no kill power at all now gain kill power at high percents, making it more an issue of seeing how early you can get that kill rather than if you can get it at all. As I mentioned above, even some aerials with next to no startup like Sonic's NAir gain kill power below 200% when fresh.

 

[Reila]

Whatever. The blast zones thing is entirely subjective, I don't see it as a bad thing at all.

 

[DougX]

I've yet to play the game so I am not entirely sure how the Blast Zones are... Everyone has said they are larger so I guess it means some more kinds of skill will be needed to get proper kills in this game. Might make for some interesting means to try and get those kills.

 

[pikafire]

This is good to know. So the online play keeps track of your W-L record? What about your kills-deaths stats? I love stats!

 

[Pirate Goomba]

It's better as it is honestly by my own preference. A real beat up until proper combos.

 

[SevenYearItch]

Pretty much the same opinions here. Playing the demo (read: final build) I've been able to KO at about 90% if I work it right. I understand that you really want to be able to just use a Kill move at sub 100% and have it be done, but this actually will force people to find combos instead of just spamming an UpSmash with viable characters.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

No matter how big the blast zones are though, lightweights can still be KO'd at under 100% damage against heavy hitters. Ike is able to KO Rosalina at below 90% damage, so imagine how easy it would be for him to take out Jigglypuff.

 

[SmashBro99]

I just KO'd Villager at 80% with Megaman's bair.

All you gotta do is learn your character's kill moves, they aren't all KO moves

 

[ndayday]

You're right that people CAN live forever but you need to find ways around it basically. It's not uncommon for me to live to 170, 180, or 200% on the rarer occasions where the person just can't land a KO move. and that's what it comes down to imo, learning moves right now. because sure a fair might hit me off the stage from the center of FD but it's not going to kill be until 200.

most characters can kill pretty reliably at around the 130 to 140 mark, even before that if you have hard hitting moves.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Also, something else; Lack of a movement technique, and the speed being STILL lower then melee.
There was nothing wrong with melee's speed

 

[Syrek]

The damage control is real. But it sucks landing these heavy ko moves just for people to come right back and not die if the blastzones were normal matches would go so much faster.

Just because people don't mind or think the blast zone's or consider it that big of a deal for being so large, doesn't mean they are damage controlling. After playing the demo extensively, which I know pales in comparison to trying other stages in the full game, I can say it's really not as bad as people are saying it is. Feels kinda similar to Brawl's blast zone IMO. The funny thing is, I've seen many characters K.O. below 100% in various streams of the full game so obviously it's not as bad as people are saying it is. Again, that's just my opinion but I really do think people are blowing this out of proportion.

 

[ToadsterOven]

Considering the fact that offstage gameplay leads to lots of hype in competitive smash as is, 4's reworked blast zones can only be a blessing in disguise as due to most everyone having a good recovery in this installment, going offstage for your KO's will be a bit less risky than in past games though one must still have a quick on the fly game plan for what they intend to do after they hopefully put their opponent down one stock all the same.

tl;dr Why wouldn't you go offstage for your kills this time compared to past smash games. As already said, the biggest hype worthy moments in competitive smash are the intense offstage battles and 4 encouraging it can only be a great thing in the long run for 4's competitive scene.

 

[Reila]

Also, something else; Lack of a movement technique, and the speed being STILL lower then melee.
There was nothing wrong with melee's speed

Speak for yourself. Melee's speed is the sole reason I could never get into that game. Smash 4's speed is literally perfect.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

Also, something else; Lack of a movement technique, and the speed being STILL lower then melee.
There was nothing wrong with melee's speed

There have been a few techniques popping up. Pivoting leads into this weird dash dance kind of movement which someone named Moondashing. You basically dash then pivot, rinse, lather, and repeat. You should look it up in the Competitive 3DS forums.

 

[Syrek]

Speak for yourself. Melee's speed is the sole reason I could never get into that game. Smash 4's speed is literally perfect.

Same here. Even though I played the crap out of Melee back in the day, I cannot for the life of me get into it now due to it's speed, physics and the fact that most character's feel like bricks for some reason. Melee is a great game but Smash 4 really excels at finding that perfect balance of speed in my humble opinion.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

There are other more well organized threads with better lead posts to give your opinion on this.

The blast zones are big but as many have said there are ways around this and you taking such issue with it is more a testament to how much you probably need to practice, not a flaw in the game.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Same here. Even though I played the crap out of Melee back in the day, I cannot for the life of me get into it now due to it's speed, physics and the fact that most character's feel like bricks for some reason. Melee is a great game but Smash 4 really excels at finding that perfect balance of speed in my humble opinion.

The speed is not necessarily a "Balance". I could play melee just fine. It just makes it harder to master the game. Which adds to how interesting the matches are

There have been a few techniques popping up. Pivoting leads into this weird dash dance kind of movement which someone named Moondashing. You basically dash then pivot, rinse, lather, and repeat. You should look it up in the Competitive 3DS forums.

I have heard of it. Doesn't really help you manuever around the stage, tho

 

[Renji64]

Just because people don't mind or think the blast zone's or consider it that big of a deal for being so large, doesn't mean they are damage controlling. After playing the demo extensively, which I know pales in comparison to trying other stages in the full game, I can say it's really not as bad as people are saying it is. Feels kinda similar to Brawl's blast zone IMO. The funny thing is, I've seen many characters K.O. below 100% in various streams of the full game so obviously it's not as bad as people are saying it is. Again, that's just my opinion but I really do think people are blowing this out of proportion.

I like fast pace matches it is hard to get that with people living past 200%