Think About This for a Moment...

[Xandercosm]

FE has as much character rep as Star Fox, Metroid, and DK combined. It also has as much rep as Pokemon and MORE than Zelda. There is definitely something broken in Sakurai's head. It's ridiculous that after almost 20 years of Smash, legendary series like Star Fox, Metroid, and DK have such a criminally small amount of characters in Smash but FE's character count is skyrocketing.

I really think it's more proof of Sakurai's ridiculous bias to the Japanese audience. Why else would Zelda be represented as pitifully in Smash as it is today? Why else would Star Fox be represented by only two characters (one of which is a clone). Why else would DK still only have two characters when there are so many to choose from in the series? It's so sad to see this type of thing.

I know what you might be thinking right now: "But FE has a lot of rep because it's popular and people love it" (I hate it, by the way). But, answer me this: Do you really think FE is a more beloved and timeless series than The Legend of Zelda, for god's sake?! Than Metroid?! Than DK?! Than Star Fox?! The list goes on.

Anyway, I really just wanted to point this out so you can spend a minute pondering this issue. It's really a disgusting thing that is souring my opinion on Smash more and more as time goes on.

 

[TyDye]

I agree, the second Fire Emblem had more reps than Pokemon and Zelda there was an issue. Considering Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Smash sell Nintendo consoles by themselves. Honorable mentions to Metroid and Animal Crossing.

 

[GreenMonkey]

Can a Mod please lock this thread? Such a topic would only invite hateful comments...

While Fire Emblem may have an abundance of representatives, instead of whining about the imbalance of characters from each franchise, it's always better to be appreciative of the fact that Sakurai and the team of Smash developers even took the time to make the game.

Not to mention the fact that originally there wasn't going to be any DLC, but they decided to cater to the fanbase and bring in some characters that we wanted. We already have seven DLC characters; even though they might not be what some fans were looking for, it's better to be thankful rather than getting upset or angry.

 

[DaDavid]

I'm sure there's a certain amount of Japanese bias (I mean... he's there.) But did you ever think maybe he just had better ideas for those characters?

 

[Xandercosm]

Can a Mod please lock this thread? Such a topic would only invite hateful comments...

While Fire Emblem may have an abundance of representatives, instead of whining about the imbalance of characters from each franchise, it's always better to be appreciative of the fact that Sakurai and the team of Smash developers even took the time to make the game.

Not to mention the fact that originally there wasn't going to be any DLC, but they decided to cater to the fanbase and bring in some characters that we wanted. We already have seven DLC characters; even though they might not be what some fans were looking for, it's better to be thankful rather than getting upset or angry.

Just because a thread might spark debate doesn't mean it needs to be locked.

I'm really just trying to make people think about the way different series have been represented in Smash. I just feel like there is no way FE should be represented more than Zelda and others. I just think it's very strange when you think about the timelessness of the Zelda series.

 

[GreenMonkey]

Just because a thread might spark debate doesn't mean it needs to be locked.

I'm really just trying to make people think about the way different series have been represented in Smash. I just feel like there is no way FE should be represented more than Zelda and others. I just think it's very strange when you think about the timelessness of the Zelda series.

Personally, I don't see a healthy debate coming out of this topic. While it's very possible for the two fanbases to have a very pleasant conversation over their representation in Smash, eventually someone's going to start flaming the other franchise.

Both the LoZ and FE series can be considered "timeless". The first Legend of Zelda game was released in 1986, while the first Fire Emblem game was released in 1990. There isn't a big gap between the two, so I wouldn't say that one is more timeless than the other.

 

[DaDavid]

Personally, I don't see a healthy debate coming out of this topic. While it's very possible for the two fanbases to have a very pleasant conversation over their representation in Smash, eventually someone's going to start flaming the other franchise.

Both the LoZ and FE series can be considered "timeless". The first Legend of Zelda game was released in 1986, while the first Fire Emblem game was released in 1990. There isn't a big gap between the two, so I wouldn't say that one is more timeless than the other.

Add to that the fact that both have continued to release well to excellently received games at about the same pace as each other and they're much more comparable then it might initially seem. Not to mention that while Zelda has it's core cast, FE is driven by a different character every single game (with some exceptions) so when the "who to add from this franchise" question comes up, there's always an easier answer than with Zelda.

By the way I think it's perfectly reasonable that a conversation like this could turn bad but I don't think it's a good reason to assume it will.

 

[GreenMonkey]

By the way I think it's perfectly reasonable that a conversation like this could turn bad but I don't think it's a good reason to assume it will.

True, true. I suppose I was being too paranoid over the possibility of an argument erupting, but it seems everyone here is mature enough to carry a nice, non-toxic debate.

Not to mention that while Zelda has it's core cast, FE is driven by a different character every single game (with some exceptions) so when the "who to add from this franchise" question comes up, there's always an easier answer than with Zelda.

I think the different characters really contributes to why so many FE characters (Kamui/Corrin, in particular) have been added to Smash. Having the protagonist from a new game in Smash really promotes and advertises the game; in fact, I found Awakening and the Fire Emblem series through Robin!

 

[Kaiserkami]

I'mma hop in and say something. FE is a niche franchise. Only recently has it started to become a household name, but its still not everyone's cup of tea when they find out that smash doesn't represent the FE cast well at all (IE: Marth in smash is cool while in FE he's more "team work is awesome!" Ike also never says "you'll get no sympathy from me." or things in that context in Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance)
Now Sakurai pretty much saved FE, you can argue that but the franchise was very small in japan, and when he put in Marth and Roy in Melee, sales increased, and when Marth and Roy were released internationally demand for this illusive "Fire Emblem" game came out, and whoo boy it got its foot in the door.
Sakurai's choices for putting in and leaving out characters is strange, and if he really did have bias, we would see Kirby and Kid Icarus out cast every franchise in smash. Some characters in his mind he thinks can work and some can't. shoot I think it was him and Iwata that sat around tossing ideas with each other seeing which characters can be in melee and which can't.
For the Zelda franchise, you honestly only have Link Zelda Shiek and Ganon. Hyrule Warriors showed that yes other characters can fight, but that's an entirely different game with an entirely different setting, but that doesn't mean their original character from their home games can work in smash.

Last thing I'll say about this, why are you worried about one franchise having more characters that can be used in smash? Is it hurting you that badly as a fan that you're seeing more of these characters for a franchise you don't care about get in? I don't like the kid icarus series as much as others but having more reps isn't bad, that means those people that like those characters can be happy to play as them. I despise Greninja when he came in, and I hated seeing Charizard again, but am I sitll ********? No, I got over it seeing that people like those pokemon. Some of my friends were excited to see Corrin in smash, while I was the only one screaming like a maniac when Cloud was released. Its all about tolerance for others likes.

(And if Sakurai had bias for the Japanese Market you would be seeing 15 monsters from the Monster Hunter series with a hunter in smash.

 

[Xandercosm]

I care about a series' representation in Smash because, like Kaiserkami said, Smash can sell a series. Without Smash, FE would be nothing. I feel like Sakurai thinks he has an obligation to put a lot of FE characters in the game just because people liked them in Melee. I'm just pointing out that since Smash has a huge reflection (or should have) on the popularity of a series, Zelda, Pokemon, etc should be aptly represented.

At the moment, I honestly don't feel like Zelda is represented well in Smash. I don't think DK is either. Or Metroid. Or Star Fox. The list goes on. I just can't say I feel like representation is put in the right places in Smash. Since Smash is such an important celebration of Nintendo's history, they should "celebrate" each series proportionally to its popularity. FE is niche no matter what way you look at it. It does not deserve more rep then Zelda. Period.

This is one of my biggest issues with Smash 4 for a reason. It matters to me what series get representation because it matters to everyone.

 

[FieryRebirth]

FE is indeed for a niche audience, especially with the direction they're taking it now. Sakurai has mentioned before that he plays FE before development/work time and wanted Awakening characters in.

A few Japanese industries(mainly their anime/manga studios), especially their sex industry rely on their obsessive, 'otaku' fanbases because they are...uh, like ramen: cheaper to manufacture, has what is commonly desired nutritionally, but you're not getting the full package and are going to become a malnourished stick figure. Bad example - either way, why fix what isn't broken in this shallow context? For all we know Sakurai may be an otaku himself.

 

[TyDye]

Can a Mod please lock this thread? Such a topic would only invite hateful comments...

While Fire Emblem may have an abundance of representatives, instead of whining about the imbalance of characters from each franchise, it's always better to be appreciative of the fact that Sakurai and the team of Smash developers even took the time to make the game.

Not to mention the fact that originally there wasn't going to be any DLC, but they decided to cater to the fanbase and bring in some characters that we wanted. We already have seven DLC characters; even though they might not be what some fans were looking for, it's better to be thankful rather than getting upset or angry.

Although I agree with everything you said. Other than the thread needing to be locked. I am always glad to see a new variety of characters added to Smash, it just seems strange that we don't recieve more characters from bigger Nintendo franchises. Nothing against Fire Emblem, I do like many of their characters in Smash. But before Melee, Fire Emblem was pretty much a Japan exclusive and still has a relatively small fan base in comparison to many franchise's represented in Smash.

 

[Xandercosm]

FE is indeed for a niche audience, especially with the direction they're taking it now. Sakurai has mentioned before that he plays FE before development/work time and wanted Awakening characters in.

A few Japanese industries(mainly their anime/manga studios), especially their sex industry rely on their obsessive, 'otaku' fanbases because they are...uh, like ramen: cheaper to manufacture, has what is commonly desired nutritionally, but you're not getting the full package and are going to become a malnourished stick figure. Bad example - either way, why fix what isn't broken in this shallow context? For all we know Sakurai may be an otaku himself.

"Otakus" (that word makes me cringe) are disgusting and are not only niche but not something a company like Nintendo should be catering to. Nintendo is a family friendly company. Not a company in the "sex" industry.

 

[GreenMonkey]

I'm just pointing out that since Smash has a huge reflection (or should have) on the popularity of a series, Zelda, Pokemon, etc should be aptly represented.

Even though LoZ only has 5 reps, it's enough to keep up a thriving fanbase. Even though FE has 6 (iirc) reps, their fanbase is still relatively small compared to bigger franchises like LoZ, Pokemon, and Mario.

These big franchises already have well established fanbases and can be expected to sell games very well. On the other hand, FE is a very small, and like you mentioned, a niche franchise that needs more attention and fans in order to do better on the market.

When Fates was announced to have 2 separate games, similar to Pokemon, people flipped out and accused Nintendo of trying to get more money out of small content. Very little people complained about Pokemon's way of releasing dual versions of games that are more similar to each other than Birthright/Conquest are, because they have a solid fanbase supporting them.

For all we know Sakurai may be an otaku himself.

Please.

 

[DaDavid]

I care about a series' representation in Smash because, like Kaiserkami said, Smash can sell a series. Without Smash, FE would be nothing. I feel like Sakurai thinks he has an obligation to put a lot of FE characters in the game just because people liked them in Melee. I'm just pointing out that since Smash has a huge reflection (or should have) on the popularity of a series, Zelda, Pokemon, etc should be aptly represented.

At the moment, I honestly don't feel like Zelda is represented well in Smash. I don't think DK is either. Or Metroid. Or Star Fox. The list goes on. I just can't say I feel like representation is put in the right places in Smash. Since Smash is such an important celebration of Nintendo's history, they should "celebrate" each series proportionally to its popularity. FE is niche no matter what way you look at it. It does not deserve more rep then Zelda. Period.

This is one of my biggest issues with Smash 4 for a reason. It matters to me what series get representation because it matters to everyone.

At this point I think you need to decide if you mean that popularity or historical popularity should be represented. Because while yes, FE is niche for sure, it has been dropping games of quality (well reviewed with comparable sales) on a more consistent basis then DK, Star Fox, or Metroid since Melee.

And while Smash should celebrate popular series as much as it can, I STRONGLY disagree that it should do so proportionally to that popularity if the characters therefrom would be as niche as the alternative. Out of the what, 6-10ish Mario reps (depending on how you count them) how many of those would you say are truly popular, iconic characters? Fun additions all I say, but popular and well known to the masses? And I would still argue that any one of those reps is more well known than potential Star Fox (Krystal?) Metroid (Ridley) or Zelda (Tingle? Impa? A one-off villain?) reps.

None of this to take away from the fact that, aside from Melee Roy and Lucina, Sakurai clearly had ideas as to how to make the FE reps unique or if not particularly unique at least fun. That's obviously not to say that the other potential characters couldn't also have been fun, but when neither has any more "right" to be included than the other I can't see just not being happy with what we get. Personally.

 

[Xandercosm]

Even though LoZ only has 5 reps, it's enough to keep up a thriving fanbase. Even though FE has 6 (iirc) reps, their fanbase is still relatively small compared to bigger franchises like LoZ, Pokemon, and Mario.

These big franchises already have well established fanbases and can be expected to sell games very well. On the other hand, FE is a very small, and like you mentioned, a niche franchise that needs more attention and fans in order to do better on the market.

When Fates was announced to have 2 separate games, similar to Pokemon, people flipped out and accused Nintendo of trying to get more money out of small content. Very little people complained about Pokemon's way of releasing dual versions of games that are more similar to each other than Birthright/Conquest are, because they have a solid fanbase supporting them.

Please.

But when you starve fans of LoZ characters and Pokemon characters and Star Fox characters (and more), that's hurting Smash too. LoZ fans don't want to play Smash as much because of the bad rep Loz has in Smash. Smash isn't just a giant advertisement. It's about Nintendo's amazing history and characters. You aren't celebrating that if you are giving a niche series more rep than an established one like Zelda.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Bias or even obsessive behavior exists among developers/directors, otaku or not. Look at Motomu Toriyama. http://i.imgur.com/y8uvo6Q.jpg

"Otakus" (that word makes me cringe) are disgusting and are not only niche but not something a company like Nintendo should be catering to. Nintendo is a family friendly company. Not a company in the "sex" industry

You never know. Nintendo was originally a card company. I say again, the obsessive culture is the lifeblood of certain media over there. Without them, anime/manga would very well be dead. Did this pandering come with sacrifices? Yep, but that is not my point. Nintendo struck gold with the "fanservice-y" new direction in one of their dying franchises and may have, as well as Sakurai, finally acknowledged that "sex does indeed sell", i.e. fan-pandering.

 

[GreenMonkey]

But when you starve fans of LoZ characters and Pokemon characters and Star Fox characters (and more),

While Star Fox may only have 2 reps, LoZ have 5, and Pokemon have 6.

5 and 6 aren't small numbers. A franchise isn't going to starve with that amount of representatives.

 

[Xandercosm]

Bias or even obsessive behavior exists among developers/directors, otaku or not. Look at Motomu Toriyama. http://i.imgur.com/y8uvo6Q.jpg



You never know. I say again, the obsessive culture is the lifeblood of certain media over there. Without them, anime/manga would very well be dead. Did this pandering come with sacrifices? Yep, but that is not my point. Nintendo struck gold with the "fanservice-y" new direction in one of their dying franchises and may have, as well as Sakurai, finally acknowledged that "sex does indeed sell", i.e. fan-pandering.

What dying franchise?

At this point I think you need to decide if you mean that popularity or historical popularity should be represented. Because while yes, FE is niche for sure, it has been dropping games of quality (well reviewed with comparable sales) on a more consistent basis then DK, Star Fox, or Metroid since Melee.

And while Smash should celebrate popular series as much as it can, I STRONGLY disagree that it should do so proportionally to that popularity if the characters therefrom would be as niche as the alternative. Out of the what, 6-10ish Mario reps (depending on how you count them) how many of those would you say are truly popular, iconic characters? Fun additions all I say, but popular and well known to the masses? And I would still argue that any one of those reps is more well known than potential Star Fox (Krystal?) Metroid (Ridley) or Zelda (Tingle? Impa? A one-off villain?) reps.

None of this to take away from the fact that, aside from Melee Roy and Lucina, Sakurai clearly had ideas as to how to make the FE reps unique or if not particularly unique at least fun. That's obviously not to say that the other potential characters couldn't also have been fun, but when neither has any more "right" to be included then the other I can't see just not being happy with what we get. Personally.

Literally all the Mario characters are household names just because they have appeared in multiple Mario games. Anything that has ever been in a mainstream Mario game is popular. But that's beside the point.

There are MANY characters they could have added from Star Fox, Zelda, Metroid, etc. Ridley, Skull Kid, Wolf, K. Rool and many more. It's not about finding characters to add when it comes to series like those. It's about actually doing the work to add them. Personally, I think fans would have responded much better to Ridley or K. Rool than they did to Corrin.

Give me evidence if you think otherwise.

 

[FieryRebirth]

What dying franchise?

Fire Emblem, according to Nintendo at least. As mentioned: Melee and FE: Awakening saved the series. And also according to Nintendo, the console FEs(The ones Ike is in)were a financial failure. So it's no surprise they would take it into its new direction.

 

[Xandercosm]

Fire Emblem, according to Nintendo at least. As mentioned: Melee and FE: Awakening saved the series. And also according to Nintendo, the console FEs(The ones Ike is in)were a financial failure. So it's no surprise they would take it into its new direction.

But what do you mean by "fanservice-y"? I didn't know about that. I really haven't been paying attention to the direction of Fates. What's "fanservice-y" about it?

 

[GreenMonkey]

Personally, I think fans would have responded much better to Ridley or K. Rool than they did to Corrin.

Fire Emblem: If was relatively recently released in June of last year, and Fates is being released just this Friday.

Corrin would help sell Fates. K. Rool/Ridley...? Not so much with their franchises.

As mentioned: Melee and FE: Awakening saved the series.

Valid point. I agree.

What's "fanservice-y" about it?

Google "Fire Emblem Fates Fanservice". That's all you have to do.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Oh this is definitely Sakurai bias, no question about it. With that said, I'm not very upset by it. Fire Emblem is arguably the fastest growing Nintendo franchise right now. Awakening released in 2012 (NoA region) and sold way more than expected. And now Fates is releasing (it's been out in Japan for a while at this point) and it's releasing two games. Not to mention the Fire Emblem x Shin Megami Tensei coming out later this year. Zelda hasn't had a major console release since 2011, Metroid since 2010, and Star Fox since 2005. Yeah we have Zelda U and Star Fox Zero coming out eventually but there's no way of telling how much people will like those games compared to Fire Emblem. Plus we really haven't seen much from either of the games so it's hard to call them relevant this early on.

I get it, you don't like FE, but that doesn't devalue it as a series. The first FE installment was released in 1990. So I think for some people, it is more beloved than Metroid, DK, Star Fox and/or Zelda. I know that's the case for me. No that doesn't forgive Sakurai for putting 6 characters in Sm4sh, but that's hardly something to be upset about. How dare he give us more characters to play as.

 

[DaDavid]

What dying franchise?



Literally all the Mario characters are household names just because they have appeared in multiple Mario games. Anything that has ever been in a mainstream Mario game is popular. But that's beside the point.

There are MANY characters they could have added from Star Fox, Zelda, Metroid, etc. Ridley, Skull Kid, Wolf, K. Rool and many more. It's not about finding characters to add when it comes to series like those. It's about actually doing the work to add them. Personally, I think fans would have responded much better to Ridley or K. Rool than they did to Corrin.

Give me evidence if you think otherwise.

You're not wrong that most fans of Smash would've preferred K.Rool and Ridley to Corrin. Hell I would've too haha. But I think it's a bit off to say that EVERY Mario rep is a household name just by merit of being in a mainstream Mario game. I can only offer anecdotal evidence of course but I've had just as many people say "Who is Rosalina" and "why is there 8 baby bowsers" as I've had people say "who is Robin" and "why is there a girl Marth."

I know it's not a matter of what characters to add from Star Fox etc, but what I'm asking is are those side, sometimes one-off characters any more significant to Nintendo as a whole and popular to the general audience then primary characters from a franchise that as of late actually makes Nintendo money?

To add to your "Nintendo History" point... you have to understand that for Nintendo (and Nintendo fans really) the present and not so distance future is still a very relevant portion of Nintendo's history. In my opinion the Smash roster does a great job of representing the past present and future of Nintendo characters. It just so happens that currently FE is one of the few character driven franchises that Nintendo has.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Oh come on, really? I'd be going in full-on rant mode AND off-topic. Fine.

Overused Japanese archetypes, cliche plot with many familiar tropes, actual recycling of past installation fan-favorite characters, little inspiration in the storytelling. Corrin, the player avatar, is a mary sue for sakes; an uninteresting one at that. Fates took what made Awakening successful and upped it to 11, especially in Birthright.

Sakurai is a fan of this apparently, and not just the series if that was his reasoning for all the FE reps. Or at least knows that "Fanservice Emblem" is hot now.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Overused Japanese archetypes, cliche plot with many familiar tropes, actual recycling of past installation fan-favorite characters, little inspiration in the storytelling. Corrin is a mary sue for sakes; an uninteresting one at that. Fates took what made Awakening successful and upped it to 11, especially in Birthright.

When you take something out of context and only list the bad things, it's easy to hate on.

Mario games are just boring platformers with the same plotless objective every game. The powerups are hardly innovative and the characters are extremely dull.
Zelda games are just lack-luster adventure games with sub-par graphics at best. The story is extremely one dimensional, the dialogue is poorly written, and the games never really seem to evolve.

I love both series so I don't agree with the above statements but the point is, it's easy to hate on something that you're biased against; anyone can do that. Not everyone can appreciate what they're ignorant of, and I think more people need to work on that.

 

[FieryRebirth]

More like I have out-grown their use of character archetypes and have noticed they are clearly running out of ideas for original, inspired storytelling. Fates wins in the gameplay department that is for sure, but I don't see myself tolerating the characters(especially with that English dub...ugh). Since I speak as mainly a writer/writing critic, my bias is associated with my cynicism in how often good writing is undervalued in RPGs today.

I sure as hell dislike the new direction FE is going, but despite Radiant Dawn and FE7 being my favorites in terms of plot depth, they are not that great either. I apologize for my ranting, but it should be obvious when one acknowledges that there is hardly professional behavior when there is bias, and that bias is more relatable than one thinks.

 

[Xandercosm]

Honestly, I don't particularly see anything wrong with having a FE character or two in the game. It just shouldn't get more rep than established franchises like Zelda and others.

I guess that's really my whole point summed up in two sentences.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Honestly, I don't particularly see anything wrong with having a FE character or two in the game. It just shouldn't get more rep than established franchises like Zelda and others.

I guess that's really my whole point summed up in two sentences.

You're problem is that you don't see Fire Emblem as an established franchise when it is. The first Zelda game was released 2 YEARS earlier than the first Fire Emblem. Your bias doesn't allow for you to see that the Fire Emblem titles are established and loved by many, and it's been that way for years. Yes, Fire Emblem was never as big as Zelda or Metroid in the west (until just recently at least), but from a world-wide standpoint, it's really not that far off.

 

[Xandercosm]

You're problem is that you don't see Fire Emblem as an established franchise when it is. The first Zelda game was released 2 YEARS earlier than the first Fire Emblem. Your bias doesn't allow for you to see that the Fire Emblem titles are established and loved by many, and it's been that way for years. Yes, Fire Emblem was never as big as Zelda or Metroid in the west (until just recently at least), but from a world-wide standpoint, it's really not that far off.

It never was and never will be. Wether or not it gains a nominal amount of popularity in the West, it will always be a Japanese niche game. It's as simple as that. Zelda is a franchise universally beloved in all parts of the world. FE will never match with it's popularity and fanbase. People in the West didn't even know FE existed until Melee.

 

[DaDavid]

It never was and never will be. Wether or not it gains a nominal amount of popularity in the West, it will always be a Japanese niche game. It's as simple as that. Zelda is a franchise universally beloved in all parts of the world. FE will never match with it's popularity and fanbase. People in the West didn't even know FE existed until Melee.

And plenty of people who know about LoZ didn't know Zelda was the girl until Smash 64.

Now the conversation has gotten to that "may as well lock it" territory because to say that FE's success as of late is "nominal" is beyond ridiculous. Sales of Awakening are at something like 1.9 mil and Skyward Sword is currently at something like 3 mil. Big difference to be sure, but a non-established, nominally popular series does not sell 2 million units on a handheld.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Yes, Fire Emblem was never as big as Zelda or Metroid in the west (until just recently at least), but from a world-wide standpoint, it's really not that far off.

Indeed. Despite being an old, grumbling, "Muh nostalgia" gamer, I'm not going to hold the series against it for going with a working formula.

It never was and never will be. Wether or not it gains a nominal amount of popularity in the West, it will always be a Japanese niche game. It's as simple as that. Zelda is a franchise universally beloved in all parts of the world. FE will never match with it's popularity and fanbase. People in the West didn't even know FE existed until Melee.

Nope, not really. But it's not like there isn't an "otaku culture" in the West either. Inviting or vulnerable character personalities, jailbait(underage), maids, and scantily-clad, big breasted warrior women are just as desired here, and Western RPGs have proved that.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

More like I have out-grown their use of character archetypes and have noticed they are clearly running out of ideas for original, inspired storytelling. Fates wins in the gameplay department that is for sure, but I don't see myself tolerating the characters(especially with that English dub...ugh). Since I speak as mainly a writer/writing critic, my bias is associated with my cynicism in how often good writing is undervalued in RPGs today.

I sure as hell dislike the new direction FE is going, but despite Radiant Dawn and FE7 being my favorites in terms of plot depth, they are not that great either. I apologize for my ranting, but it should be obvious when one acknowledges that there is hardly professional behavior when there is bias, and that bias is more relatable than one thinks.

That's fair. Even as a pretty hardcore FE fan I can't argue with the fact that the writing isn't the greatest and a lot of the characters fall into archetypes. I guess I'm more okay with cliched storylines and basic archetypes. For me, those are the charms of the FE series. I can see why people are upset with the way the FE is going. I'm not a huge fan of the anime influence along with certain references that are passed around in dialogue, but I think it's better to ignore what you dislike rather than to stand against it, and invest more time in what you do appreciate. But hey, to each his own.

It never was and never will be. Wether or not it gains a nominal amount of popularity in the West, it will always be a Japanese niche game. It's as simple as that. Zelda is a franchise universally beloved in all parts of the world. FE will never match with it's popularity and fanbase. People in the West didn't even know FE existed until Melee.

Again, your bias is getting in the way of reason. Fire Emblem games have been localized since 2003. Wanna know something funny? Awakening sold about 1.9 milion units world wide. 0.52 million units were sold in Japan, 0.41 million were sold in Europe, and 0.84 million were sold in North America (leaving 0.12 million for the rest of the world). Yes, Awakening sold 16.9% more in North America than it did in Japan. Source. (Also since you're so stuck on this idea that Zelda is more beloved than Awakening, Skyward Sword only sold 0.39 million units in Japan...compared to Awakening's 0.52 million in Japan. Keep in mind Skyward Sword is about 2 years older. Source). So what if people didn't know that FE existed until Melee? That was over a decade ago. That was a different time, and a long time ago at that. Drop your bias and accept that you're wrong. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you're right.

 

[Xandercosm]

Skyward Sword sold 2.12 mil in just America. That's more than Awakening worldwide. Get rekt.

 

[DaDavid]

Skyward Sword sold 2.12 mil in just America. That's more than Awakening worldwide. Get rekt.

Oh okay so you're going to ignore the point I was actually making in order to turn this into a sales competition. In that case...

Oh no, ya got me. Man you sure are right. I guess if nothing else I can take solace in the fact that FE has 6 reps in Smash Bros.

 

[GreenMonkey]

... can a Mod please save this thread from getting more out of hand? This went from a perfectly healthy debate to people spouting irrelevant facts and throwing:

Get rekt.

at the end of their sentences.

 

[MarMarTheGreat]

Well buddy maybe you didnt realize that his team wanted to add a FE fates character for promotion sake....

DLC characters are not characters that COULD have been added on release date but were forgotten about...We really are stupid to expect anyone new for Zelda,Metroid or any game series...

DLC characters in a game as huge as smash would mostly be used for crossing over franschises that are huge or promoting smaller lesser known ones like Bayonetta and Fire Emblem

I always had a feeling Bayonetta would make it..Nintendo bought her in after Sega rejected her and probaly want to continue with her franschise..Bayonetta was the BEST choice for the game and its pretty weird none of you expected it to be when Bayonetta was a counter statement on Nintendo being a kids only franschise

Same for FE considering how hardcore that game series is

Yeah unfortunate that there was a HUGE demand for Roy and that Nintendo wanted Sakurai to implement a FE IF character in the game..

Yeah its unfortunate that Cloud and Ruy (both japanese characters) were the most viable crossover options they had instead of Shovel Knight or Steve

Sorry that we couldnt get Wolf but lets be honest..Metroid,LoZ,DK dont have relevant characters too add anyway...

Maybe Ridley sure

There is no bias..That is a figment of your imagination..Sakurai doesnt have the FULL authority to put whoever he likes in or he would be fired for being unproffesional and not looking at the game from a business perspective and fan perspective

Sure call it bull**** that characters get added to promote two games instead of a franschise but Nintendo wants to push Bayonetta and the new Fire Emblem thingy (I call it that because they are trying to pokemonize that series)

We should be glad we even got DLC...

The only thing thats bull**** is cutting characters like Wolf and Lucas..Damnit they should have stayed in the first place..Solid snake is understandable

 

[FieryRebirth]

Well, here is my attempt at reeling this back a bit: is not only a character I actually wanted in the roster and got that wish, but his kit is something I welcome in Smash. Despite being "another sword wielder", Robin is more a projectile-based fighter and him being from the FE franchise probably would have little influence if he wasn't...well, unique in the sense a mechanic is homage to the gameplay from the series. He probably would be a Ness clone if it weren't for this.

's kit does baffle me as I seen her a unique fighter herself, but Sakurai, according to the time-constraints before release, couldn't let that happen.

 

[MarMarTheGreat]

Well, here is my attempt at reeling this back a bit: is not only a character I actually wanted in the roster and got that wish, but his/her kit is something I welcome in Smash. Despite being "another sword wielder", Robin is more a projectile-based fighter and him being from the FE franchise probably would have little influence if he wasn't...well, unique in the sense a mechanic is homage to the gameplay from the series. He probably would be a Ness clone if it weren't for his unique limited item-use mechanic.

's kit does baffle me as I seen her a unique fighter herself, but Sakurai, according to the time-constraints before release, couldn't let that happen.

Why the hell are people still argueing about Lucina,Dark Pit and Doctor Mario's inclusion in the game?

Lucina was never intended to be unique in Smash..She was intended to be a costume like the others I mentioned before hand..

They just added them as a neat gift or sth and they wanted them to be competitivly different from their original characters (which is true)

Its not like Sakurai originally had Lyn in mind but instead put Lucina

 

[FieryRebirth]

Clones are not surprising at this point, nor do they bother me(I have been in a lot of Marth Vs Roy 1v1s in Melee)but is it a crime to simply expect a character to be more than that? That aside, Sakurai's actual reasoning eludes me at the moment.