Things they should "nerf" and "unnerf" in SSB4

[TheWhiteBowser]

Let's discuss everything that is wrong with the tier list for ssbb. And I mean everything. How the characters and their skills and movesets can be so grossly imbalanced at times and how they can be improved in the next game. I want this thread to discuss the thing Smash 4 needs to have to make it better than both brawl and melee. What things need to be nerfed in brawl characters and what things need to be brought back up to the melee style. I'll start off a few examples so we can get started discussing.

Why does Ganondorf run like a fatman jogging? His Dash in Melee was much more appealing, it was much faster and he was a much more flexible character.

Bring back Jigglypuff''s Rest! It was the coolest and best revenge killer and game changer ever.

Snake's priority can be really OP at times seriously those hitbox sizes are way out of whack

Meta Knight has stupid speed compared to the rest of the roster of characters on ssbb. Don't lie he does.

Olimar's grab is needs to have more lag time. His grab is the only reason why he is a viable character!

BRING BACK THE KNEE OF JUSTICE! Captain Falcon demands it!

Take out chaingrabs. Seriously those things didn't exist in Melee and there is a good reason why.
EDIT: Sorry my bad chaingrabs did exist in Melee. So maybe this part shouldn't be discussed as yeah some people are right chaingrabs can easily be avoided with DI. But only certain characters can escape a chaingrab and that is where it becomes unbalanced. And granted in Brawl the value of the grab and throw became so much more important to gamepley than in Melee. As yeah chaingrabbing did become so much easier in brawl and it became much more inescapable too. But let's not talk about chaingrabs too much in this thread as that is not my intention. How can chaingrabs at least become more fair in the next game?

These things only scratch the surface of what we can discuss on this thread. Brawl's tier list is very unbalanced compared to Melee's this has been stated numerous times. Games like Project M actually took the time and effort to make everything balanced in ssbb and made it so much better. So how did Project M do that? Well we can discuss that in this thread too.

So let's start discussing then. I will modify this first post with more things to nerf and unnerf as the days go on but these are mainly just the things that I came up with off the top of my head. So let's hear all the opinions now shall we?

 

[mimgrim]

Do high tier characters really need to be nerfed though? The main chracter in Brawl people have a problem with is MK but even then does he really deserve a nerf? At themost tha\ey just need to nerf the Nado and possibly Shuttle Loop. Instead why not jsut buff the lower tier characters so they are more viable? I'd much rather see a buff to character like Ganondorf, Bowser, Link, Zelda, ect... then a nerf to characters like Olimar, Diddy Kong, Snake, Marth, Falco, ect... And yet CGs to need to be gotten rid of completly. >_>

 

[TheWhiteBowser]

Do high tier characters really need to be nerfed though? The main chracter in Brawl people have a problem with is MK but even then does he really deserve a nerf? At themost tha\ey just need to nerf the Nado and possibly Shuttle Loop. Instead why not jsut buff the lower tier characters so they are more viable? I'd much rather see a buff to character like Ganondorf, Bowser, Link, Zelda, ect... then a nerf to characters like Olimar, Diddy Kong, Snake, Marth, Falco, ect... And yet CGs to need to be gotten rid of completly. >_>

Good points. high tier characters do have specific traits and specific moves that do cement them as unbalanced when compared to other characters so it is fair to state that smash needs to improve this dynamic. And everyone has heard of the people that spam the Mach Tornado online and how the shuttle loop can kill and really unfair percentages and strikes almost as fast as Marth's dolphin blade. So your right a nerf on high tier characters isn't as needed as a buff on low tier characters. So maybe we can discuss what things low tier characters possess in their moveset that need to be enhanced or as this thread is calling it "unnerfed". And I agree with you CG's can get out because they do make the tier list the most unbalanced and are one of the easiest ways to define an unfair match-up especially when there are character like my man Bowser that can't escape a Falco chaingrab.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Uh, I think Sm4sh will be a lot better even if the changes we want don't fly. There are multiple people working on balance now, and it sounds like it is to be a lot less stratified. I'd like to think the balance collaboration works a lot like the hierarchy found at DARPA. The former development cycle for balance was

1. Sakurai and his team create character and moveset
2. Players of varying skill take turns playing as every character combination thus far on a flat stage
3. Sakurai analyzes results, makes adjustments
4. Repeat

Off the top of my head, I think they should let more characters carry momentum in the air, such as Captain Falcon. It's hard to keep up the offensive when you slow down immediately and dramatically after a jump.

Several characters need their recovery adjusted, especially Ness and Lucas. Their current recovery makes edge hogging and off stage combat more risky than their field power justifies. Getting caught unable to complete an onstage jump without recovery is instant death. While on the topic of those characters, in competitive play, only an idiot is going to spam non-energy projectiles at them. These characters need an additional reward other than being healed for a successful absorbtion, or at least give it an additionally utility like allowing them to use Magnet while grabbing and render the other character incapable of certain projectiles or a special.

Shining needs to be viable on a greater proportion of characters.

Give some moves more knockback. Sonic's kill options are too narrow.

Peach's ass needs to explode again.

 

[Kapus]

or at least give it an additionally utility like allowing them to use Magnet while grabbing and render the other character incapable of certain projectiles or a special.

They actually did have additional utility in Brawl. Ness' Magnet pushed characters/items away, and Lucas Magnet did electricity-based damage.

Definitely not enough, though.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Do high tier characters really need to be nerfed though? The main chracter in Brawl people have a problem with is MK but even then does he really deserve a nerf? At themost tha\ey just need to nerf the Nado and possibly Shuttle Loop. Instead why not jsut buff the lower tier characters so they are more viable? I'd much rather see a buff to character like Ganondorf, Bowser, Link, Zelda, ect... then a nerf to characters like Olimar, Diddy Kong, Snake, Marth, Falco, ect... And yet CGs to need to be gotten rid of completly. >_>

You can't just buff everybody up to high tier, then certain characters are just going to be a walking powerhouse with some very powerful advantage over others because the way their moveset is built, and in the end a broad tier list will still be compiled. If they try to balance all characters to mid-tier, like to DK and Kirby level for example, then the characters won't counter each other characters as hard, and it'll be easier to try and gather everyone in the middle, instead of trying to gather everyone at the top of the list. Of course there'll always be counters, but the point is to try and not make them too hard, a lot of Brawl's tier list is compiled out from how hard each character is countered by MK, we'll want to minimize such a situation as much as possible.

That's kind of the point of balance, not being too high, but neither being too low, you gotta hit the middle spot.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Meta Knight certainly needs a nerf. If you're reffering to his speed attack and running wise, then he could be slowed down, yes. They could also nerf his attacks in other ways, as many are unpunishable and can easily hit an opponent, even a careful one. His d-smash is rather strong for it's speed as well.

Meta certainly needs a good amount of nerfing. Ganondorf, I don't really care about his running speed or animation as long as he is no longer a Capt. Falcon clone.

I also personally believe Jigglypuff should be buffed up a bit, like her u-special giving opponents a longer sleep effect and improving her air game.

Chain-grabs are only an issue when it comes to infinites like the Ice Climbers. Most others are not infinite depending on the character that was grabbed or a part of the stage allows one to trap their opponent in a chain-grab there. (like Dedede on the Great Fox)

Characters like Marth and Capt. Falcon fall rather quickly after jumping, that needs to be changed. Link makes a little more sense as a fast faller since he is carrying a large amount of gear to help him fight.

I also think Samus's smash attacks need to be buffed, they're barely even decent finishers.(Zero Suit Samus is different case, her d and u smash attacks are setups for other finishers)

I suspect Yoshi is being reworked or has been already, since he was not present at the first trailer of the game. I think he could use a better recovery other than his second jump, and if not, at least let him use his tongue as a grapple recovery.

 

[Mr. OC]

Nerf sonic

Make him the next sandbag

 

[Phan7om]

I could go on a long tangent on all of the things I would do to the characters to make them balanced, and I'm pretty confident they'd work too. But aside from that, did anyone hear that he might be implementing Balance Patches (how things will be decided are unknown) meaning that it should be a lot more balanced, especially after a couple of years.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I could go on a long tangent on all of the things I would do to the characters to make them balanced, and I'm pretty confident they'd work too. But aside from that, did anyone hear that he might be implementing Balance Patches (how things will be decided are unknown) meaning that it should be a lot more balanced, especially after a couple of years.

PSASBR had a bunch of patches for balance. Most of these where catered to the screaming fans who barely knew about the game. It made the game even more unbalanced and made it horrifyingly bad. Careful what you wish for, the competitive community isn't likely to be the ones influencing the balance changes that much.

 

[mimgrim]

You can't just buff everybody up to high tier, then certain characters are just going to be a walking powerhouse with some very powerful advantage over others because the way their moveset is built, and in the end a broad tier list will still be compiled. If they try to balance all characters to mid-tier, like to DK and Kirby level for example, then the characters won't counter each other characters as hard, and it'll be easier to try and gather everyone in the middle, instead of trying to gather everyone at the top of the list. Of course there'll always be counters, but the point is to try and not make them too hard, a lot of Brawl's tier list is compiled out from how hard each character is countered by MK, we'll want to minimize such a situation as much as possible.

That's kind of the point of balance, not being too high, but neither being too low, you gotta hit the middle spot.

I didn't mean a buff for every character to high tier. >_> My point was that nerfs are much less needed then buffs. Most of the characters need buffs more then nerfs if you think about it. You took what I meant to say and took it to more extreme then what I meant. >_>

 

[Erimir]

I didn't mean a buff for every character to high tier. >_> My point was that nerfs are much less needed then buffs. Most of the characters need buffs more then nerfs if you think about it. You took what I meant to say and took it to more extreme then what I meant. >_>

Whether a character is good or bad is entirely relative to other characters anyway. If the game plays somewhere between Melee and Brawl (and Sakurai says it will), characters will be faster and KO at lower percentages... And if these changes apply to Meta Knight, then in one sense he will be "buffed".

But it's pretty meaningless to talk about that as if it has anything to do with what people are talking about when they say characters need buffed or nerfed. I think Meta Knight needs to be nerfed, but that doesn't mean I think he should be exactly like he is in Brawl, but slower and weaker. It only really means that he should be weaker relative to the other characters.


Anyway, one thing they could do to make chain grabs less of a problem that wouldn't require them to make changes just to address specific pairings (i.e. Donkey Kong and King Dedede) is to make grabs perform differently when they're done within a short period of time. Kind of like a stale moves penalty, although one that applies over a shorter period of time.

So, this could be done in a number of ways, or some combination of them.

They could make it more difficult to perform grabs if you do them in quick succession.

They could change the angle or distance of throws when you do them in quick succession.

They could reduce the amount of time you can hold a character when you do it in quick succession (preventing pummel-based chain grabs).

They could make it so that you can escape more easily, DI more, etc. when you've been grabbed/thrown multiple times in quick succession.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I didn't mean a buff for every character to high tier. >_> My point was that nerfs are much less needed then buffs. Most of the characters need buffs more then nerfs if you think about it. You took what I meant to say and took it to more extreme then what I meant. >_>

Well, I wouldn't say I took it to an extreme, I simply misunderstood it, sorry about that.

But yeah, there's more characters in need of buffs than nerfs, that's for sure. However, a good handful of characters do need a nerf too, it's not that far away from the number of buffs that need to be given.

 

[smashbrolink]

UN-nerf Link.
Entirely.
His recovery, his power, his speed, his move lag.
All of it.
UN-NERF IT.
Make him as much of a Hero as I've always wished he was in this series by making him viable against more than just low/mid tiers.

 

[josh bones]

Unnerf is a word?

 

[TheWhiteBowser]

Unnerf is a word?

Actually the proper term I am getting from the community is buff not unnerf so I guess I should change the title. But I can't...

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Bring back Jigglypuff''s Rest! It was the coolest and best revenge killer and game changer ever.

Jiggs still has rest in brawl you dolt.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Specific character changes I'd like to see:


-Buff C. Falcon's knee, and give him a lot less landing lag, particularly on Falcon Kick. He needs to be able to constantly speed around.


-Buff Jigglypuff to become an aerial monster like she used to, but not quite to the same extent as Melee. Also buff her Rest up again too, it needs to be very rewarding to hit with, in Brawl people can come right down and kill you again, you're better off never using the attack.


-Nerf MK's Tornado, Shuttle Loop, D-Smash and Nair, but not too much on the two last mentioned.


-Ness needs to be harder to gimp (make his Up-B like Lucas' and give Lucas a new one?) and PK Fire needs to get people caught more easily. Buff Yo-Yo.


-Samus needs to be able to get in the battle and kick some ass, I really don't want them to encourage passive and defensive play with her again, so nerf Zair and buff F-Smash, D-Tilt, and D-Smash's knockback, and make her shots connect better with F-Air and U-Smash. Also buff Super Missile's knockback and the Bombs' utility. She also needs to be a lot less clunky, she's supposed to still be very agile even while in her suit, thankfully it looks like she's heading this way judging from the trailer.

 

[TheWhiteBowser]

Jiggs still has rest in brawl you dolt.

K First of all Jiggs Rest was drastically nerfed in Brawl. In Melee it did close to 50% damage. In Brawl it does 30% damage. In Melee it lead to an instant kill with more knockback than the Warlock Punch. In Brawl the knockback was reduce to a fraction of its normal self. The hitbox detection of Jiggs Rest in Melee was very flexible and could combo characters and lead to a very early kill. The hitbox detection of Jiggs Rest in Brawl is much harder to land and isn't too flexible to combo with at all.
Secondly the insult was uncalled for. Don't come to this thread ever again if you have an attitude like that or I will report you to a mod.
So who's the dolt now?

 

[Reznor]

Make Luigi move speed faster hes way too slow and maybe give him a little bit more range on some attacks
Mario some range and maybe better recovery

 

[mimgrim]

Well, I wouldn't say I took it to an extreme, I simply misunderstood it, sorry about that.

But yeah, there's more characters in need of buffs than nerfs, that's for sure. However, a good handful of characters do need a nerf too, it's not that far away from the number of buffs that need to be given.

Which characters in all honesty need a nerf, aside from possibly Meta Knight. ICs? Why not just fix the whole CG problem instead? Wouldn't that in fact fix the problem that people have with ICs without nerfing them to much? Olimar? He's powerful but he's not broken by far, perhaps make his Smashes a biut less spammable but that's about it for him. Diddy? Despite being strong does he really need a nerf? As his moves don't seem broken at all to me. Aside from possibly Metaknight what characters really need a nerf? Infact it's kinda like what you said about the tier list being revolved around who can counter Metaknight, nerf the character that a tier list is revolve around countering and don't make a new character like that and give the lower tier characters a buff and you would see a dramatic change in the tier list. Which again makes me ask, aside from Metaknight, do characters really need a nerf? You might consider X move on character Y annoying and hard to get around at times but does that mean X move is broken? Because really if you think about all of the higher tier characters, aside from Metaknight, are actualy balanced quite well as many of them that are good on stage have terrible recoveries and are gimped easily. :/

 

[edde]

-pit side-b changed. annoying as ****
-marths counter should be like melee
-bowsers smashes should kill
-NO chaingrabs at all (ICS, d3, falco, etc... )
-make wolfs recovery a bit better and less glitchy on the ledges
-nerf MKs neutral b, down smash and knockbak of the upb
-buff the **** out of ness's yoyo
-make mario/link actually decent
-nerf fox's up smash
-nerf diddy's bananas (ridiculous dash priority, catch rate, small slip section whenb used against him, etc), htbox (somehow its hitbox is larger than marth's sword) but make his upb slightly better... his character size is unrealistic aswel
-make peach and sheik a bit more like they were in melee, not so overpowered though
-zelda's kicks and the knee should be way better
-ton more of crap i cant think of...

 

[Fenrir VII]

Chain-grabs should have a juggle counter system (which I'm hopeful for, since Namco is working on the game).

With each subsequent grab, the knockback should be somewhat higher, to allow the opponents to get away. I don't think anybody would be upset if CG's only worked for the first 3-4 grabs.

 

[MargnetMan23]

K First of all Jiggs Rest was drastically nerfed in Brawl. In Melee it did close to 50% damage. In Brawl it does 30% damage. In Melee it lead to an instant kill with more knockback than the Warlock Punch. In Brawl the knockback was reduce to a fraction of its normal self. The hitbox detection of Jiggs Rest in Melee was very flexible and could combo characters and lead to a very early kill. The hitbox detection of Jiggs Rest in Brawl is much harder to land and isn't too flexible to combo with at all.
Secondly the insult was uncalled for. Don't come to this thread ever again if you have an attitude like that or I will report you to a mod.
So who's the dolt now?

Melee rest was a little OP but Brawl rest was too nerfed. Wouldn't it be cool if rest like healed jigglypuff a little bit LIKE IT ACTUALLY DOES IN POKEMON? XD (I'd be cool with a slightly buffed brawl rest if I could heal like 5-10% of it XP)

 

[Lemonwater]

I really liked Brawl Ganon (or rather, Brawl+ Ganon). His attacks feel and sound heavier and seem more brutal to me. I just hope he returns as a playable character and his moves are improved in power to compensate for his sluggishness.

 

[Mr. OC]

nerf the homerun bat that item is so OP gawd sakurai what the ****

also make one f-tilt from captain falcon an instant KO, that move needs a major buff

and make samus' charge shot stun you forever

also remove all of olimar's hitboxes he doesn't deserve any, he's grounded and gets no TV for a week

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I think the term for "Unerf" is "Buff" not "Unerf".

I guess "Unerf" would be if the character WAS good before but was "Nerfed" in Brawl.

Either way, Ganondorf totally needs to be nerfed and Meta Knight needs a major buff

 

[TumblrFamous]

I think the term for "Unerf" is "Buff" not "Unerf".

I guess "Unerf" would be if the character WAS good before but was "Nerfed" in Brawl.

Either way, Ganondorf totally needs to be nerfed and Meta Knight needs a major buff

I don't think that's a good idea...

 

[[Corn]]

Increase Ganon's speed and jump height
Decrease the size of Snake's Physical Hitboxes
Decrease Speed and Priority of nearly everything Meta has
Get rid of Ness/Lucas + whoevers grab release weakness

Keep chain grabs, they existed in every game and nearly every character had one on another. Just dont make them infinite without extreme prerequisites.

 

[Renji64]

Get rid of the fludd make mario good kinda how P:M mario is. Make Jigglypuff's rest awesome. Just make all characters awesome and variable choices. P:M is doing that right so far.

 

[grizby2]

lets see here..
im gonna use color~

Mario - his FLUDD needs some type of buff, maybe it could actually do damage while not stunning them (like foxes laser) while still pushing people back.
luigi - hes fine
peach - the hitboxes peach's Down smash never feel right. its like they wanted to make a move with a lot of hits, yet only like...half of them land. whats up with that?
Bowser - he looks pretty good in sm4sh so far. maybe give his D-air some more damage since it leaves him so punishable, or make the hitboxes come out much faster, so it doesn't take so long to recover out of that move.
Donkey kong - make it so that his DK punch doesn't put him in the helpless state after using it in the air.
Diddy Kong - hes fine
Yoshi - give him a tether recovery, he should have had one since melee.
Wario - his down smash has SO MUCH punishment time. he also lacks KO' power.
Link - For those who say him being heavy makes sense, they're DEAD WRONG. look at Snake, hes the 3rd heaviest character and hes faster than a Texan running home for a BBQ. he needs to be a tad swifter.
Zelda/Sheik - sheik needs her F-air from melee again. Zelda's recovery could be less "stiff". Zelda's D-tilt is BROKEN, ever try using it over and over on someone? so yeah.. fix that.
GanonDorf - !WARNING! NEW MOVESET APPROACHING
Toonlink - he's alright, I wouldn't buff him. hes more luigified than people actually think, but if they could luigify him more, that'd be great.
Samus - shes kinda floaty, not just because of brawl, just on a normal basis. I think she might fight a bit better if she wasn't so predictable air-wise, and she can some some Ko power.
Zero suit Samus - smaller short hop, more damage on F-smash, a bit more range on D-Smash.
Pit - his moveset is decent, and it looks like hes getting a slight makeover in sm4sh.
Ice Climbers - chaingrabs need to go. their recovery is kinda awkward, id love it if they got something else really. it'd be nice if ice moves froze people longer and didn't send them UP, i'd apply that to all ice moves actually.
R.O.B. - side-special could use less start-up time so reflecting things is easier, and should suck people in a bit, otherwise it leaves him open. F-smash could use a tad more range.
Kirby - hes pretty decent in my book. shooting people out of his mouth should cause people to keep moving back instead of popping up into the air after they aren't a star anymore.
Meta Knight - more start-up time on D-smash, less knock back on D-dair, more knock back for down-B, less damage on tornado, less knock back on UP-B, slower pummel.
King Dedede - remove chaingrab, remove stun when head hits ceiling with UP-b, less start-up time on N-air, more start-up time on B-air, Down-B should hit both front and back (back for less damage).
Olimar - has a decent moveset. UP-B tether recoveries shouldn't be negated by someone already being on the ledgeI apply this to everyone one with an UP-B tether recovery.)
Fox - pretty good already, but could use some KO power, more horizontal movement during helpless state.
Falco - hes good to go, needs to be luigified just an itty bitty bit more, could use more horizontal movement during helpless state.
Wolf - he's ready, But he can use more Horizontal movement during helpless state (seeing a pattern here? lol)
Captain Falcon - falcon punch should push him forward more, raptor boost should NOT put him in helpless state when going off a ledge, and shouldn't leave him open when he lands the attack (that's ridiculous! I mean come on!).
Pikachu - Down smash is kinda TOO good, more startup time on that. needs melee B-air and U-air again.
JigglyPuff - it is my personal belief that if you land her down special, that you should NOT start sleeping (the player is rewarded for accuracy and timing). D-tilt needs more power, U-smash needs more range, D-smash needs less start-up time, breaking her shield should KILL her, Sing should only have 1 or 2 chances to put someone to sleep because 3 just put jigglypuff in a horrible open state on ground and accidently using it when trying to recover usually means death.
Pokémon Trainer - squirtle is okay, ivysaur has way too much punishment time on most of his moves and his tether recovery is in the same league as olimar's, D-smash needs more knockback and a bit more damage. Charizard's b-air could use a littler more knock back, rock smash does too much damage, he should fall faster but jump higher. FATIGUE NEEDS TO GO.
Lucario - his Counter is awkward in the air and slow upon start-up and activation, and it is also easily shielded. extreme speed needs less start-up time (and should hurt people). Side-B needs more knock back and needs to be able to grab people in the air.
Marth - he's fine.
Ike - his F-smash does a little too much knockback. N-air takes too long to get out of since it lasts too long (and usually kills you if you're trying to recover). moves like his neutral B give me a headache, they need to make some changed to it, because unless you have Brain cancer or something, there's no way you're going to get hit by OR LAND the fully charged attack.
Ness - I really don't feel like I have to say anything about ness (since most of you probably know I run my mouth off in the SSB4 threads), BUT, most of his problems come from PK thunder, PK flash, and his yo-yo being weak. he needs his F-smash and F-air from melee back as well.grab release is also an isuue
Lucas - just like ness, grab release needs to go, and his recovery needs to be buffed in some way. aside from that, he's having happier days than ness.
Mr. Game & Watch - id love it if you could influence the direction of his projectiles while using Chef. D-smash has a bit too much knock back, but its not much of a problem.
Snake - he's way to fast for a heavy character in general really. remove stun-locking F-tilt properties, F-smash start-up time and ending time needs adjustments
Sonic - hes in serious need of some KO power. he could also use a different side special. A-combo could be stronger.


that's all I can think of at the moment.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

K First of all Jiggs Rest was drastically nerfed in Brawl. In Melee it did close to 50% damage. In Brawl it does 30% damage. In Melee it lead to an instant kill with more knockback than the Warlock Punch. In Brawl the knockback was reduce to a fraction of its normal self. The hitbox detection of Jiggs Rest in Melee was very flexible and could combo characters and lead to a very early kill. The hitbox detection of Jiggs Rest in Brawl is much harder to land and isn't too flexible to combo with at all.
Secondly the insult was uncalled for. Don't come to this thread ever again if you have an attitude like that or I will report you to a mod.
So who's the dolt now?

You didn't say nerfed in your original post.
Don't get sand in your vagina.

 

[TheWhiteBowser]

You didn't say nerfed in your original post.
Don't get sand in your vagina.

KK you can really get out now. No one that is respectable should use terminology like that on another person at all whatsoever. If I see you respond like that using highly inappropriate phrases I will get a mod to bann you from this thread. Please know what your saying and mean what you say.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

KK you can really get out now. No one that is respectable should use terminology like that on another person at all whatsoever. If I see you respond like that using highly inappropriate phrases I will get a mod to bann you from this thread. Please know what your saying and mean what you say.

You can get banned from single THREADS?
Also I did say what I mean, you /are/ a dolt.

 

[moneyfrenzy]

for buff, bowser and DK NEED to be able to at least have some vertical recovery. If they go below the endges at all there doomed

 

[Krynxe]

Calm down people. Arguing over semantics is silly.

Here are my thoughts on puff's rest (from the jigglypuff ssb4 thread):

I believe they're going to remove rest. Most casuals don't understand the move at all, finding it to be useless and stupid, and it's too difficult to balance a move like that. (Melee is an example of when the move is made really good, Brawl is an example of it being made poorly. Frightening vs. near useless.)

Despite that, I believe ssb64 did a great job with rest and I would love to see the move return.

 

[J1NG]

I see a lot of people here talking about "bringing back" Captain Falcon's Knee in some way or another, but I think "bring back Captain Falcon's Knee setups" is a better request.

Also, I think Ganon suffers from being too predictable due to his slow speed. To give him some unpredictability, I think it would be a good idea to allow Ganondorf to charge many more moves than just his smash attacks. I can imagine a chargeable forward tilt, forward air, and a chargeable -reworked- up tilt. I think this would be a great idea because as you charge the moves, I imagine that they would gain power. To me, Ganondorf is all about slow, powerful strikes and this idea fits the theme perfectly. I know some people may disagree and proceed to talk about buffs to his priority and recovery, but this idea I had just fits really well in my mind.

I have a bunch of other ideas that I might post later.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Just make sure that all chain grabs are sought out and destroyed. Glitches/Bugs are fine. Can't wait to see what kind of crazy programming errors we'll stumble upon in SM4SH. I'm hoping someone finds out how to play as a Multi Man.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

This thread is dumb as ****.

You can't look at characters or mechanics in a nut shell, even if they ported every character 1:1 with their hitboxes, damage, and knockback distances/angles intact 100% (which they won't, they're not even using they previous ones for reference) from any Smash game the viability of every character would be flipped all around just because of the universal physics changes. And they're not, characters are being done from near complete scratch and any single move could completely change the flow of a character (see Brawl Bowser's Up-B, or Melee Peach's DSmash, or 64 Falcon's Uair). And even within these characters and technicalities game balance changes completely as people find out new tech over time, even ST the million year old game has made some pretty heavy changes to its tier list this year (see T.Hawk). And to top it all off most people in this thread aren't at a high enough level of play where character effectiveness and matchups won't drastically change as they get better.

tl;dr This thread is dumb as ****.

 

[Reznor]

This thread is dumb as ****.

You can't look at characters or mechanics in a nut shell, even if they ported every character 1:1 with their hitboxes, damage, and knockback distances/angles intact 100% (which they won't, they're not even using they previous ones for reference) from any Smash game the viability of every character would be flipped all around just because of the universal physics changes. And they're not, characters are being done from near complete scratch and any single move could completely change the flow of a character (see Brawl Bowser's Up-B, or Melee Peach's DSmash, or 64 Falcon's Uair). And even within these characters and technicalities game balance changes completely as people find out new tech over time, even ST the million year old game has made some pretty heavy changes to its tier list this year (see T.Hawk). And to top it all off most people in this thread aren't at a high enough level of play where character effectiveness and matchups won't drastically change as they get better.

tl;dr This thread is dumb as ****.

I think the thread is meant to be dumb its just for fun