Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

He’s been parroting all game.

but its weird right because he and kary are both gunning for each other in their respective lists, its the only difference in their top 3 scum picks is they just have each other as scum

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Could you give an example?

no not really, but I can assure you just saying it was a joke was not what I was expecting

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I liked that he gave a reads list, and I agreed with parts of it, like the Wam read and killing Synchro immediately. I feel like the points he made against you are completely reasonable as well?

When I say his points against you seem fine, I'm not saying I agree with them or I think he has a good point;
just I can believe that Pythag thinks that and the points he was making didn't ping me as scummy.

how is saying "FF not reading the rules with a fine tooth comb is out of character for you" and "I don't understand your position on gorf" making a "good point?"

these are statements of his own subjective feelings, they are not points being made

also the "bruh" comes from answering my question with a half statement half question which is wishy washy af

where did I say he was making a good point?

the question mark is not wishy-washy whatsoever. I'm saying that I don't see what was scummy about the points he made against you. If you want to tell me what the problem with them is, then go ahead, but to me they are just weak points and I can see town Pythag believing them, they don't seem fake or designed to undermine you at all. Do you think that Pythag is mafia and for his first move he is trying to sink you of all people? Because personally I think its more likely he just genuinely had some confusion or doubts about you.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

#HBC | Kary I actually completely misread that sentence, I thought you said "When I say his points against you seem fine, I'm not saying I agree with them, I think he has a good point;" obviously you were saying the completely opposite upon reread my b

you point about scum!Pythag making that his first shot being unlikely is well taken

what do you think about Wam's bottom three mirroring yours

 

[Synchronicity]

no not really, but I can assure you just saying it was a joke was not what I was expecting

So there's no answer that you can think of that would have satisfied you?

In #35 what was the reason you would have gone back to mala if Chaco did provide a satisfactory answer?

 

[giraffelasergun]

Vote Count 1.6

BoomFrog (2); Kary, Chaco
Fontisian (2): Wam, Dark Horse
Chaco (2): LaserGuy, FrozenFlame
Kary (2): Sabrar, Synchronicity
FrozenFlame (2): Malakandra, BoomFrog
Wam (1): Fontisian

Not Voting (2): Pythag, Somitomi

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to reach majority.
Day Ends at 5 PM CST on Friday the 11th! Live Countdown to EOD1

 

[Pythag]

the bolded is absolutely bananas to me. Making it harder for other people to read your slot doesn't strike me as pro-town. I feel like being cryptic and vague and not very forthcoming is like textbook 'muddying the waters'.
So what do you mean by 'legitimate town defenses even if improbable' and is there a game you are thinking of in particular?

I figured I'd be alone in this. the big synchro post I appreciated because it seemed to have a lot of thought in it.
It also let me sit and think, whereas other posts it becomes easy to skim. That's what I thought about it.
Plus I don't know if Besvii is muddying waters because there are not specific waters to muddy currently.

I'll ask you honestly :
Did you actually read their post and say 'wow I have no idea how to interpret this?'

For the amount of posts they have, and it being D1, I suppose I give a pass to a lot of things that one certainly shouldn't later in the game. ¯\(ツ)/¯


I've only seen Scum!Xivii and Scum!Bessie exactly one time, I believe it was in sumting mafia in it he breadcrumbed a role, had specific ways that everything he was doing was town, IFF these other circumstances are true. The probability was low, but still potentially 'town' I'm sorry I can't recall the game. Bessie was kinda writing a tonne of stuff that was never quite on the same page as what everyone else was talking about. These being my only experiences, that's what I was pondering. I don't see that attitude yet.

bruh

I think Pythag is not a great communicator as either alignment and so yes reading literally he is somewhat contradicting himself in putting you as "scummy but not scummy", but I don't consider him garbling his words to be scummy.

When I say his points against you seem fine, I'm not saying I agree with them or I think he has a good point;
just I can believe that Pythag thinks that and the points he was making didn't ping me as scummy.

Let me just say, that I find this hilarious, and also thank you for bearing with me.
I promise if I'm ever in a skype game or something, I'm a WAY better communicator IRL than in a forum.

Pythag could you explain the "concision is protown" line. Not what it means, but why it was something you remembered. Was it something that was debated about?

It wasn't debated about, I think kary quoted it in one of the first games I was in in a loooong time (maybe that summer bash maifa?), and, like Shakespeare saying 'brevity is the soul of wit', or saying 'if you can't explain it, you don't understand it." There's something about that truism that just kinda sticks in my brain.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

So there's no answer that you can think of that would have satisfied you?

In #35 what was the reason you would have gone back to mala if Chaco did provide a satisfactory answer?

you're missing the point by demanding an example. there could be tons of explanations for why Chaco decided to highlight his vote as an "equality" vote. I wanted him to genuinely explain what he was thinking. his answer was that he wasn't and it was a joke, and his diction in doing so did not convey genuineness. its 100% a gut/tone read. me asking that question was focused on eliciting a response that I could gauge for fabrication, there wasn't a particular explanation that I had sorted as more convincing vs. less convincing. its all about the diction

if chaco "passed" I would have gone back to mala because I liked having high octane wagons early, it was the whole reason I RVS voted mala in the first place

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

wam is blatantly sheeping a horrible case. Alas, our truce cannot last.

FoS wam

#Team Chaco

this post got a lot of likes, and chaco just reiterated the sheeping point, genuinely surprised there aren't more votes there

 

[Synchronicity]

you're missing the point by demanding an example. there could be tons of explanations for why Chaco decided to highlight his vote as an "equality" vote. I wanted him to genuinely explain what he was thinking. his answer was that he wasn't and it was a joke, and his diction in doing so did not convey genuineness. its 100% a gut/tone read. me asking that question was focused on eliciting a response that I could gauge for fabrication, there wasn't a particular explanation that I had sorted as more convincing vs. less convincing. its all about the diction

if chaco "passed" I would have gone back to mala because I liked having high octane wagons early, it was the whole reason I RVS voted mala in the first place

You're misrepresenting him though. His reasons for voting Boom wasn't to tie the wagon, it was because he wanted to pressure Boom more than Mala. The equality statement was just acknowledging the fact that it was tying it up. That doesn't mean it was his reason for voting.

Cause it’s more pertinent for me to sort Boom quicker. I have a good grasp of BoomFrog, sans ambiguous play at end of Kary’s game, and feel that’s a quick route to a town clear for me/or scum catch from higher pressure entrance. Mala will be easier to read under pressure basically, two wagons diverge and gotta pick one.

ok so if you wanted to pressure Boom early to read him better why label your vote as an "equality" vote? how are the wagons being even in votes relevant to your stated goal here?

Its not. Simply marking that it was a tied vote now. But in spirit of being on one wagon, I chose Boom for the above reasons. You’re looking to much at the part that I named when it served no purpose other than a marker that the votes were once again equal.

So based on this, how is Chaco's reasoning for why he voted Boom any less valid than your reason for why you wanted to vote Mala?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

You're misrepresenting him though. His reasons for voting Boom wasn't to tie the wagon, it was because he wanted to pressure Boom more than Mala. The equality statement was just acknowledging the fact that it was tying it up. That doesn't mean it was his reason for voting.

So based on this, how is Chaco's reasoning for why he voted Boom any less valid than your reason for why you wanted to vote Mala?

I'm definitely not misrepresenting him, but very possibly inadvertently misinterpreting his motives/thought process. I've never attacked chaco for the vote itself, but what I perceived as an attempt to manipulate the optics of the vote. thats where the sense of grime comes from. and then his responses to it didn't help shake the gut read at all. I never attacked the "validity" of the vote, obviously we're 30 some pages in, how "valid" can any vote really be? I've never gone after chaco for pumping up an RVS wagon, like you said I was right there with him doing it, I literally only thought that his deliberate decision to mention his vote equaled out the wagons was suss

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

**** it I'm probably wrong on this fine

Unvote: Chaco
Vote: Wam

 

[Pythag]

why did you put me in your "scummy" category when you overtly state that you don't think my "out of character" act is necessarily scummy? shouldn't I be in null by your own stated logic here?

I don't really get what's going on here. I said the rules seemed out of character, and then listed what I was voting you for :

FF - I'm not saying it's scummy that you didn't read the rules, but that does seem very out of character for you. I didn't seem to understand your position on gorf. That seemed very odd to me.

could I have worded it better, yes I could. in fact I did when you said:

what's there to not understand about my position on gorf? I'm legitimately confused here, I have the simplest stance ever, he pinged even more defensive to me than the gorf baseline, so I'm down to pressure wagon him

Well, I didn't understand the people finding gorf defensive.
So that'd be why I didn't 'understand' your position, it's not that it was incomprehensible, I just didn't get pushing for that reason. I guess I didn't see it as a shift, but evidently I didn't make that clear.

 

[Synchronicity]

ninja'd and this actually made me lol

might go back to mala depending on what chaco says

Frozen, what concerns me is the bolded here. Why the focus on optics for an RVS wagon?

I asked you above why you made this statement due to the possibility of it pertaining to the mala post you had just quoted (i.e. signaling that the post was scummy so you would switch back to him), but that seems to not be the case.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Frozen, what concerns me is the bolded here. Why the focus on optics for an RVS wagon?

bro I literally said the same exact thing to chaco lmao

why the focus on equality optics for RVS wagons?

Unvote: Malakandra
Vote: Chaco

that was my entire point, commenting on it balancing out the wagons felt like an optics manipulation move and I was thinking "why the **** does chaco care if his vote evens out RVS wagons, let alone care enough to literally write it as the caption to his vote?" it just seemed so necessary for an RVS stage vote, hence why I felt it was a forced optics related manuever

I asked you above why you made this statement due to the possibility of it pertaining to the mala post you had just quoted (i.e. signaling that the post was scummy so you would switch back to him), but that seems to not be the case.

I only quoted the mala post because it actually made me lol, the sentence re: switching back had nothing to do with it

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

seemed so unnecessary*** for an RVS stage vote

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

#HBC | Kary wtf dude liking my posts with a direct question to you but not answering it?

 

[Synchronicity]

bro I literally said the same exact thing to chaco lmao

that was my entire point, commenting on it balancing out the wagons felt like an optics manipulation move and I was thinking "why the **** does chaco care if his vote evens out RVS wagons, let alone care enough to literally write it as the caption to his vote?" it just seemed so necessary for an RVS stage vote, hence why I felt it was a forced optics related manuever

This is my point. I quoted your line verbatim. Why were you focusing on optics for an RVS wagon? In other words, why did you feel it necessary to inform us that you would return to Mala? Why was that a concern?

 

[Chaco]

Only reason I haven’t voted Wam Is because I haven’t been able to read again yet, and I haven’t gotten to look into the rest of the game. He does parrot a lot yes, but he doesn’t strike me as completely doing it out of scumminess? Anyone familiar with Wam to know if this is typical of him? It’s like a game of follow the leader but he’s the follower and not leading any pursuit, so that’s why it doesn’t strike me as completely scummy. I’m not sold on him being a town follower completely, but that’s kind’ve what it seems like to me overall.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

This is my point. I quoted your line verbatim. Why were you focusing on optics for an RVS wagon? In other words, why did you feel it necessary to inform us that you would return to Mala? Why was that a concern?

oh now I get what you're asking, at the time my thought was essentially chaco will either answer this in a way that alleviates my gut read and I'll go back to HBC pressuring or he wont and I'll keep pressuring the chaco slot to try to get a better read, and I wanted to signal to chaco that there were real stakes to his answer to apply immediate early pressure which would hopefully make it harder for him to fake a genuine response

 

[#HBC | Kary]

what do you think about Wam's bottom three mirroring yours

#HBC | Kary wtf dude liking my posts with a direct question to you but not answering it?

Yeah I'm sorry for making you wait but I'm trying to carefully read and catch up and you're distracting me from that.

Wam had both Chaco and Gorf as scumreads earlier so they're not super surprising. The OMGUS on me is kinda grody, but I feel like the mirroring is just a coincidence. I guess it makes it slightly less likely that Wam is mafia with either of the other two, but I'll worry about that down the line.

 

[Chaco]

Wam:

Meta question are 4 votes at RVS normal on here?

This initially struck me as odd, but due to unfamiliarity with the sites playstyles I was fine with it overall. 0

Ah that makes sense. I prefer scum or Serial killer. Not sure why but I seem to get into the game more. Occasionally struggle to get going day1/2 as town.

Boomfrog. I think the suggestion of a lynch even in jest is weird. "https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many_a_true_word_is_spoken_in_jest"

This post is fine until the last part. It’s almost altruistic when it’s obvious Boom is joking.

Chaco have you seen malek react badly to pressure as scum? And no one has a good boomfrog read.

I agree with FF gorf looks defensive.
unvote

vote gorf

I actually thought the top question was a good question and was glad he asked it because it reinforced the read of Mala. Then we go into following the leader, this time it’s FF. -1

Yeah as someone with a similar meta at one point I have used the same defence as scum several times. My vote is now serious.

I’m going to mark this as null, but I find it extraordinarily odd that he feels the need to clarify that his vote is now serious. 0

Sabrar why is not reading the rule alignment indicative?

Actually a good inquisitive post from Wam. If I look back and see someone else asked it first I will retract the positive point here. +

Am I the only one who finds these weird.

I missed booms view on gorf. Blame late reading comprehension.

Gorf sorry you had to replace. I'm trying to play on my phone mainly as well so I feel your pain! I do have a laptop for complicated bits though!

@font, when your up to speed do your reads match gorfs?

Lasers analysis on chaco is a good oeice of work. So in going to sheep and put chaco as 2nd scummiest after gorf.


I have been kn the end of a few sabrar tunnels. I havent seen a full tunnel yet this game though.

This is where the parrot starts to really roost. I find it extremely odd that he almost commentates his following of players. That’s why it almost feels innocent to me, nonetheless negative for following again . -1

I feel I'm in the wrong time zone for this game!

For Kary, chaco and malak are your boom votes serious?

Curiously enough again we are back to the serious vote question out of the blue. I’m starting to see a trend of where his veteran time frame of play doesn’t equal veteran play. Marking this as null for now. 0

Having never played with chaco dont have a meta guide but the posts today make chaco look like caught guilty scum.

Test
: Chaco

Pythag

Unsubstantiated claim again. -1

Will respond in detail to the queries when I'm home with a laptop. But Chaco I also thought you were claiming a boom town read.

I wouldn’t normally have a problem with someone saying I thought this too, but in my opinion it was fairly clear that I hadn’t produced a read on Boom. Kary misunderstanding is one thing, and anyone else saying that I would be like okay cool, but it’s the trend of following other people’s reads and opinions that is troubling. -1

SO answers below to the questions i have been asked, I'm still getting used to a new forum so if I have missed any let me know.



I answered this earlier but for completeness on the questions. I had somehow missed Booms read of Gorf in there.

On chaco being defensive in response to

https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081741 from Chaco
and https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081763 from Pythag

This post https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081718 and this post https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081722, both pinged me a defensive. The quote below stood out to me as a very weird thing for town Chaco to say.



In response to somitomi https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081788

Gorf/font it is the defensiveness when challenged along with the vote on me that came across as an OMGUS, I'm waiting for the answer from Font to the question I have repeated.

#HBC | Kary https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24082025

Boom is neutral to me see below.

LaserGuy Ordered list below

BoomFrog https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24082252

I don't know..... Phone post so sticky fingers?


Thoughts on a re read pages 4-7.


Boom seems to have backed laser then dropped it later.



Whats your reason then?

Repeating this with a tag fontisian

@font, when your up to speed do your reads match gorfs?



Then why is it still there given how scummy you find my play?

Sabrar when the setup discussion was in a game as a miller surely that is to be expected?

Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

@Synchronicity your #139 is all Xivii, correct? How caught up are you?

smashboards.com

Pythag https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24081834

I have called both!

Ordered List

Town - really struggled to order this section so don't read to much into the order
Somitomi - Enquries seem to be coming from a town mindset, questioning interrogating etc. Somi's play seems to have come on a lot from what I remember.
Malakandra - stayed very calm under early pressure.
LaserGuy - as explained I like the thinking.
Sabrar - Feels like town Sabrar but it's hard to call him town if he gets through Day 1 without voting for me.
Dark Horse - I like the mindset behind the questions just a bit suspicious that they don't have many of their opinions out there.
Pythag - pretty much identical read to Dark horse

Neutral
Boomfrog - I can never read Boom, especially day 1.
Synchronicity (Xivii and Bessie Hydra) - Not enough content to call.
Frozen Flame - not seen enough to make a judgement


Scum
Kary - I don't like putting me and Gorf at the bottom of the reads list without as far as I can see mentioning us before https://smashboards.com/threads/thi...day-the-11th-at-5-pm-cst.507224/post-24082071
Chaco - Explained above
Fontisian (Replacement for Gorf) - Explained responses to pressure Day 1 seemed to be defensive. I also haven't seen anything fron Font to change my mind yet.

Off topic, until I started looking on my computer I didn't realise how good Sync's avatar was!

Besides this post being very hard to understand from formatting, I’m starting to see some parallels here. Subtle misspelled words, wording jumbled, etc. Could be indicative of phone usage or what I think is more likely is that they are struggling to acclimate and understand this game. Therefore the mirroring of reads and following. What is troubling here is the initial following of FF and then saying they don’t have enough to go off of in them. And saying I Like DarkHorses placement does I’m gonna use that one here. Or Kary placed me low and that’s not fair. I see some genuine things trying to shine through here. Nevertheless the negatives outweigh the positives. -1

on the read I did there did seem to be a noticeable content difference between the 2 town games and this game. Dont know if I can be more specific.

This really bothers me because I believe they didn’t even check. You’re not gonna go skim some posts quickly and tell me that it doesn’t line up that fast, so I believe this is just another example of follow the leader. -1

Overall Score: -5

Conclusion: Although they mirror and parrot a lot, at this conjecture I want to believe it comes from genuine lack of understanding. That’s the secondary theme I picked up upon right after the content copying. Now if this doesn’t check out from Sabrar LaserGuy BoomFrog somitomi or any other X player, then I would be inclined to vote here from the reasoning above it is not typical of his play and this parroting is something new and my hypothesis is incorrect that there’s a lack of understanding.

 

[Chaco]

That’s so hard to format on a phone. Excuse where the numbers got chopped off from editing the color. The correct score should be -6 from a post count of 11 quoted.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Did you actually read their post and say 'wow I have no idea how to interpret this?'

I read parts of it and went 'okay thats kinda funny and i can see what they mean'
and other parts and went 'i have no ****ing idea who is the fish in this metaphor'.

I mean, yes, it is fun and different and refreshing in a ways but letting Xivii have fun is not generally pro-town.

synchro what's your opinion on Wam?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Somehow that user doesn't come up when writing a tag but can still be tagged.

Synchronicity see above post please.

 

[Chaco]

HardFrozen BodyFlame:

why the focus on equality optics for RVS wagons?

Unvote: Malakandra
Vote: Chaco

Initially seeing this is a different approach at Frozen to my slot. Generally he tries to pocket or buddy me from TMI, and I don’t think this is the case here. +

is top question legitimately a question re: # town and slum slots in the setup?

only reason I don't think the second question is suss is because it involves a half xivii slot making a claim lmao


the fact that DH asks this followup question and not Kary made me do a double take. when literally thought it was DH who told pythag to pick a wagon and then followed up with the why. interesting confluence in interest between these two slots on pythag's rationale, if one of these slots flips scum this is an interesting connection to look at

I think this is looking to hard at his scenario which moving forward I think we will see a theme of here, which I think further indicates Frozen as town in comparison to previous scum play where TMI was in effect. +

they've had little to no interaction in thread yet, which is unsurprising considering the game has been open for under 24 hours. as far as I can see they have not meaningfully interacted at all such that they'd have any reason to be buddying each other at this point. this is not a slam dunk by any means but I found it to be a very surprising page 1 connection that I wanted people to take note of. Kary pushes pythag to make a move, DH comes in immediately after with the natural followup question which could readily be explained by scum chat coordination to poke at pythag early. not at all saying thats what happened, obviously it could be two townies looking to pressure the same slot and DH just was able to intuit what the point of forcing pythag to choose is was but it just pinged as too much to be purely coincidental

I think it’s just a follow up from D0

missed opportunity for the facial profile with YES as bottom text meme here

what do you think of gorf's deliberate non-answer interpreting the question as which produces his preferred arithmetic result?

Why?

ok so if you wanted to pressure Boom early to read him better why label your vote as an "equality" vote? how are the wagons being even in votes relevant to your stated goal here?


agreed with DH here, this town read seems premature. Mala was pretty cool under pressure in midnight ops correct? pretty sure any competent scum would have the wherewithal to not be rattled by an early RVS wagon 24 hours in to the game

I have mixed feelings about this post. It feels like FF is actively looking for explanations and reasonings but is looking to hard at things that aren’t there so it’s muddying the obvious positive pings with negatives. Lends to the townFF scenario again. +

we were all scum together in midnight ops though you obviously got to play alongside mala WAYYYY longer than I did. My impression of mala was always that of a more chill/laid back style, is your opinion here at all based on what you saw from mala as a mate in midnight ops or is this a deeper meta read?

This feels like pseudo buddying time Laser. -

bro this comes off insanely defensive and like a "wahhhhhh stop talking to me" type response

This is Gorf though, and I see from the progression as I’m quoting these posts he bounced back and forth on how to perceive Gorf here. So I’m marking this as null. 0

See this comes off weird to me. Why are you saying I'm "overfocusing" on your deliberate decision to comment on the fact that your vote made the wagons even? You made the choice to highlight that, not me. I was curious as to why you felt it was important to mention "equality." Hence why I said it came off like an optics move, a way to add a vote and pass it off under the consensus building guise of "keeping things equal." Felt like a placating move

I don't think it's fair to say that someone asking to you pick between two slots this early in the game is pointless. no one is expecting you to case a slot but there's nothing wrong with pressuring people into taking stances early. doesn't mean you have to stick with your pick forever but it's forcing you to make a move, and scum hate having to make moves they don't have to. no one was expecting you "defend" against anything, just looking for insight into your rationale

this is so unlike your approach as my mate in vanilla mafia that I'm inclined to just gut townread you for now lmao

I see legitimate meta based arguments here and at the same time I see Frozen looking between the lines to much when he doesn’t need to be. +

this was my initial impression to sabrars question, I really had a hard time imagining a fair game where town has to lynch correctly 4 times to win over the scum only needing 3 mislynches assuming perfect play from both sides and no non-scum nightkills

fwiw Gorf is generally a more "heated" player so defensiveness from the slot is def to be expected and generally comes off null for me when reading gorf but him being this defensive so early definitely pings a bit for me, just want to provide some meta on one of the slots in this game that I actually have voluminous experience with

I'm 100% guilty of the bolded, I jumped on the early mala RVS wagon with RVS rationale but I was also being opportunistic in that I saw it as an early opportunity to see what coalition would form on the wagon and what would form on any competing wagon

why? a tied wagon is an extremely boring gamestate unless both wagons are L-1. Tied wagons are one of the most "stable" gamestates in a plurality lynch ruleset. If the two frontrunners are tied, you're actually in a position to no lynch if deadline hits. Imbalanced gamestates are far more interesting, what makes you think tied wagons are?

I’m skimming over this part to highlight the bounce back on too heated to this is Gorf. -1

oh **** maybe you're just outplaying me by tone shifting just like I did from midnight ops to vanilla mafia

Thinking out loud, not sure if this is legitimately a concern or not though it just side commentary. 0

everyones a pipe hittin HBC homie till the HBC comes for you

Unvote: Chaco
Vote: Gorf

And now we’d voting Gorf. Not at all following this progression. If you know Gorf is a reactive player and you claim that, why are we here again. This vote is unnecessary for pressure imo and goes against previous statements and realigns with the first. Obviously having trouble sorting Gorf. Falls in line with FF struggling to form reads here. +

I don't think this tracks at all. All I was pointing out was that Kary pushed pythag to pick between two slots, and then DH asks the predictable followup question of why when I would have instead expected Kary to do it. This is a little bit different than a "third person jumping into a double sided conversation." It's one thing for someone to be posing questions to another slot and then another person jumps in and starts asking their own questions or commenting on the responses given. It's a little more unique of a scenario when one person makes a demand of a slot and then an entirely different slot asks what I would label the natural followup question very quickly after the pressured slot makes the pick that was demanded. I'm just saying in this specific instance it felt possibly coordinated.

I get that you're frustrated that I "tainted" your questioning of gorf but I don't know where this "you just did it yourself and are apparantly proud of it" is coming from. Proud of what? like where are you getting this alleged pride from? I was just impatient and asked for your take on his response before you got around to it yourself

and again I'll reiterate: I didnt not at all say that DH or Kary were suss for the interaction, I was was simply pointing out that it seemed possibly coordinated to me and that people should take note for later if one of the slots flips scum

ok fair but that kind of a game is a bit outside the spectrum of possibilities for the smashboards meta. We've had some really imbalanced games here many, many years ago but at this point the remaining players on smashboards are pretty veteran and we have a review process before anyone hosts a game here. this kind of insane imbalance just isn't realistic for a setup here. now 9v4 as opposed to 10v3 isn't a fringe case argument like your above example but just trying to make the point that Im not surprised that other smashboards vets would be unsure if someone was being serious suggesting a possible 9v4 setup, I had a similar reaction as you can tell by my first question directed at you asking you specifically if you were being serious


guilty as charged, I missed the tiebreaker clause, I just saw it was plurality lynch, resigned myself to accepting that this ****ty ruleset is getting more popular than hard majority lynch and not playing to protest will be futile, and then signed up for the game

Sabrar V FF feels TvT to me. +

the way you've framed it, they're exactly the same. problem is, you're glossing over a key difference. You're using the broad term "follow up" to create a basic equivalence that ignores the fact that ultimately, what I've been commenting on the whole time, is that it was the specific form of the follow up that caught my eye. the way I "followed up" on your question to gorf is not exactly the same way that DH followed up on Kary's demands toward Pythag. I think our disagreement here is essentially semantic though /shrug

I'm not sure I follow how you get from "you responded to my request for you to not but in with a meme picture" to "you are proud of butting in where you weren't wanted." again this is kind of a silly thing to argue about I think but like I get the feeling you think I'm trying to troll you or something which just isn't the case, I was just trying to be lighthearted and essentially say "hey man sorry you were too slow" with a meme of an old commercial I'm sure everyone's seen

unless you believe that mates never coordinate to pressure slots together in early game, illogical isn't the right word here. Is my suggestion that it COULD be mate coordination a weak one based on the available evidence? absolutely. but it's not illogical to just flag what I thought was possible evidence of coordination for people to look back at if one of the involved slots flips scum. you clearly don't think what I pointed out is worth material consideration which is fine and all but I don't really understand why you're coming at me over it other than you just being angry at me for tainting your gorf interation


I mean that sounds like me, but I can't find the game here so this must've been a game we played offsite? It sounds like you're saying I was wrong about those things, can I get a link?

Not counting again for more TvT with adotives0

**** man that stings guess my townplay is like oil to XKCDs water

are your trying to signal that you want to vote for both of us here? or hardclaiming double voter with the capacity to split votes? or typo?

Side commentary. 0

wait you think me skimming the rules is "very out of character" for me? you're remembering the hypervigilant obsessive FF from my highschool days bro

what's there to not understand about my position on gorf? I'm legitimately confused here, I have the simplest stance ever, he pinged even more defensive to me than the gorf baseline, so I'm down to pressure wagon him

Seeing this now I actually agree with what was said. FF did waffle here some and it’s not clear, but I think this is actually indicative of townFF cause he’s trying to figure it out. +1

all good though gorf understandable, playing legit mafia without a computer really is tedious af, sad to see you drop but ill catch you in the next one

boom is just validating my ping from chaco re: the equality comment, how am I not supposed to reward that?

Unvote: Gorf/Fontissian
Vote: Chaco

I dislike the connotation here, probably cause it’s against me. But subtle buddying to Laser again. -

are you telling us to vote sabrar and somi oh wise one?

This is kind’ve funny. 0

if Laserguy went after chaco just to pocket me I'm absolutely ****ing flattered but I somehow doubt thats that case

Buddying. -

ok wait given your last comment on sabrar does this mean we should actually vote boom?

Null from my count. 0

bro I was voting chaco before Laserguy even made the post so ** off with this "opportunistic" nonsense. I was suss of chaco for caring about the "equality" of the wagons. like in what universe does town!chaco give a flying ** about whether his vote evens out wagons? like the fact that he was even thinking about that when he cast his vote and decided to even comment on it in his voting post pinged hard for me, it felt like he was considering the optics of his vote which is frankly a pretty scummy frame of mind. I openly admitted that my switch back to chaco from gorf was due to laserguy's suspicion of chaco validating my own but that was the literal extent of it

this vote is absolute garbage, literally just piggybacking off the nitpicks other slots have made of my simple off the cuff observation and again spewing this "opportunist" rhetoric

Let me put this Kary/DH connection thing to bed. I made the observation in post #37. First page, 37th post. Let that sink in. It was a literal kneejerk reaction that I had to those two slots so quickly keying in on Pythag. It caught my interest, so I commented on it. No where have I ever claimed that I picked up on some guaranteed scum coordination tell or anything, I was just pointing out the simple fact that if one of those two slots flips scum, that early confluence of interest becomes a lot more interesting and shouldn't be forgotten. I was literally just putting a little flag in the sand and saying hey, if one of these slots flips scum this is probably worth another look and I left it at that. I seriously do not understand where people are getting off saying its scummy to flag an interaction like that for the sake of posterity when we have more information and early D1 interactions are easily forgotten/glossed over

Also the last sentence of this post is gross, he literally says "hey FF is def playing different than the last game I was in when I was his mate, BUTTTTT lol he sucked that game so he better have made a change lul he can totally still be scum or whatever lol bird n fish n bird n stuff hahaha amirite?." Like this is an excuse to vote me despite having evidence that contradicts the read, not an actual reason. Grimey af

if mala's post is what pushed you to do this, this may be the worst vote I've ever seen you cast

100% cosigning this, very much how I feel

bro ngl when I read this post it literally felt like a post I would write as scum. Lots of defensive statements phrased as questions, accusations of bad faith when there really isn't clear evidence of it (I did this to osie as scum in completely vanilla when I felt he "caught me for the wrong reasons" as fonti was describing in the abstract this game), saying its "hilarious" that people are sheeping the argument to shame them out of doing so, etc etc.

bolded is pretty gross. "Guys when I'm town, I'm obv town, so don't worry, just give me more time and trust me because it's too early for me to be obvtown yet." This does not AT ALL feel like you in your last two games where frankly you were actually obvtown (hence why I killed you pre lylo in completely vanilla). In fact, in midnight ops and vanilla mafia I feel like you were very hard town out of the gate, which is why I made efforts to pocket you however ineffective they may have been. I also dislike the use of "cronies" here, overly harsh tbh. It's like you're trying to say "everyone pushing me is scum" while at the same time walking it back by saying "well there's just some scum in that coalition"

more off the cuff **** getting blown out of proportion here. Somi was literally my scummate last game so I was joking about how somi could be swapping styles from vanilla mafia to this game just like I did a style swap, or atleast tried to, between midnight ops and vanilla mafia. I was poking fun at myself for being implicitly arrogant enough to think that somi isn't capable of a deliberate style shift to throw people off the scum scent after having just played in a game as scum

see earlier explanation above after the mala quote

pretty sure there isn't any reality where fonti sticks his neck out for me as scum, pretty sure he'd be salivating over the idea of getting me mislynched D1 so he can stunt on me as both alignments after midnight ops, so getting a good town read there

going to try to get a full read list up tonight

This post contains a double standard. Essentially doing what he calls me out for in the same breath further down the post. Thought process: Frozens in a tunnel. -

kary attacking me for the alleged "hedging" on somi is weird af considering he placed me at #3 most townie overall on his readlist so that's throwing me off right now, but until he did that he was generally a town read of mine

pythag is straight null atm, still trying to work out about how I feel about him coming after me for not reading the rules fully and the going "oh alright then I guess I buy your explanation." kind of felt like a way to defuse a situation that backfired

Posting reads. +

bolded I have a really hard time believing is genuine ngl

do you really think scum!Laser decides to capitalize on some latent pro-yeet-chaco sentiment with a meta case? if he's scum, why become the spearhead on a chaco ML when he could just have easily laid back a bit and waited to see if I'd make a bigger push?

there's always a need to rev up the chainsaw when it comes to defending myself

I don't get where you're coming from on my votes being setups for "easy outs." I voted chaco originally because the equality thing was the first big ping in the thread, I then switched to gorf because I legit thought he was being scummier with his defensiveness, and then switched back to chaco because gorf replaced out and laserguy validated my original chaco call. there was no setting up of anything, circumstances changed and thus so did my calculus for where my vote should be based on my present ability to read the field. How exactly was my vote for chaco "setting up for a back off?"

obviously it could have come from nay combination of alignments, but if we get more info and learn that one of those alignments is scum, I think it's an important crumb to give a second look. Putting a flag in the sand for an early interaction that caught my eye in no way shape or form sets up either slot of a lynch. It sets up the slots for perhaps some extra scrutiny down the line at tops, and that even assumes that people even give a **** about my opinion down the line if one of them in fact does flip scum

I'm really not sure how boom's post where he voted for me and pythag in the same post, and this now very clear vote on me with the intent of giving the wagon on me steam, are related at all, and even if they are related, how it makes my condescension of his latest vote "fake"

What’s bothering me most is all this connection to Laser. Do you think Laser would do this directly conflicts with his previous statement of if Laser is doing this to pocket me. Connection to Laser definitely noted. -

#HBC | Kary why did you like the above pythag post I just quoted where he votes me, yet you have me as a strong town read?

Not relevant to my count. 0

@Chaco is this a blatant pocket attempt at us by scum!gorf?

This was really random. Not really following why he’d be back at Gorf, unless trying to sort Fonti. 0

how is saying "FF not reading the rules with a fine tooth comb is out of character for you" and "I don't understand your position on gorf" making a "good point?"

these are statements of his own subjective feelings, they are not points being made

also the "bruh" comes from answering my question with a half statement half question which is wishy washy af

Again I feel like this is invoking a defense he chastised me for. -1

one that felt like a genuine explanation, and tbqh what he's provided doesn't feel that way at all which is why I'm so stuck on it

Townie Tunnel? +1

no not really, but I can assure you just saying it was a joke was not what I was expecting

But what were you expecting here? This is why I think you’re over reading stuff that doesn’t need to be. Lends to townFF struggling for reads. Marking as null though. 0

this post got a lot of likes, and chaco just reiterated the sheeping point, genuinely surprised there aren't more votes there

Solid point here, but as I’ve outlined I have my own hypothesis of Wam’s slot. Town points here nonetheless.+

I'm definitely not misrepresenting him, but very possibly inadvertently misinterpreting his motives/thought process. I've never attacked chaco for the vote itself, but what I perceived as an attempt to manipulate the optics of the vote. thats where the sense of grime comes from. and then his responses to it didn't help shake the gut read at all. I never attacked the "validity" of the vote, obviously we're 30 some pages in, how "valid" can any vote really be? I've never gone after chaco for pumping up an RVS wagon, like you said I was right there with him doing it, I literally only thought that his deliberate decision to mention his vote equaled out the wagons was suss

Frozens regaining service from his tunnel venture. +

**** it I'm probably wrong on this fine

Unvote: Chaco
Vote: Wam

Officially out of the tunnel. 0

bro I literally said the same exact thing to chaco lmao
that was my entire point, commenting on it balancing out the wagons felt like an optics manipulation move and I was thinking "why the **** does chaco care if his vote evens out RVS wagons, let alone care enough to literally write it as the caption to his vote?" it just seemed so necessary for an RVS stage vote, hence why I felt it was a forced optics related manuever

I only quoted the mala post because it actually made me lol, the sentence re: switching back had nothing to do with it

0

oh now I get what you're asking, at the time my thought was essentially chaco will either answer this in a way that alleviates my gut read and I'll go back to HBC pressuring or he wont and I'll keep pressuring the chaco slot to try to get a better read, and I wanted to signal to chaco that there were real stakes to his answer to apply immediate early pressure which would hopefully make it harder for him to fake a genuine response

And here is the culmination of all of the above, Frozen was tunneling me because previously he tried to buddy me into submission. (Successfully) That now he’s afraid I’m going to do it to him for vengeance

Overall Town Score: +6

Conclusion: Frozen is town trying to struggle to figure out how to play town again. TMI was his leading factor the last two games and now he having to formulate reads on his own again. His wariness of my slot is my biggest town ping for me, and the biggest negative I see is the buddying towards Laser and Laser alone.

 

[Chaco]

I may or may not get to Laser tonight. That took 40 minutes and formatting was still ****ed.

 

[Malakandra]

is your point system a measure of how good someone is or how towny/scummy someone is?

 

[Chaco]

is your point system a measure of how good someone is or how towny/scummy someone is?

Positives, negatives and nulls reach an overall positive or negative score Indicative of either alignment.. Which shows my thoughts in their slot. Conclusions summarizes what I gather from those points. Like Wam, negative in score but it waiting for feedback regarding his slot before I pursue anything further there.

 

[Malakandra]

He believes everything he's saying.

I don't want to go into a full breakdown at this point in time, but like, the dude just feels town, "did we just becomes best friends" meme aside, lol.

Alright, If I'm still on frozen later I'll ask you about it then.

How exactly was my vote for chaco "setting up for a back off?"

boom Laser is just validating my ping from chaco re: the equality comment, how am I not supposed to reward that?

Unvote: Gorf/Fontissian
Vote: Chaco

Doesn't explain why you shifted off Gorf other than Laser making a case on boom, and the lighthearted comment about reward leave it open easily for if laser backs off for you to dip off as well.

obviously it could have come from nay combination of alignments, but if we get more info and learn that one of those alignments is scum, I think it's an important crumb to give a second look. Putting a flag in the sand for an early interaction that caught my eye in no way shape or form sets up either slot of a lynch. It sets up the slots for perhaps some extra scrutiny down the line at tops, and that even assumes that people even give a **** about my opinion down the line if one of them in fact does flip scum

The bolded is just straight up a contradiction??? If it can obviously come from any combination of alignments, why specifically is it an important crumb to look at just for if one them happens to flip scum. Theres a clear difference from jotting this down in a little notes collection, and dropping it in the thread, you even say yourself that people might not give a ****, so why bring it up. My problem is your making an assumption and forcing a rut in thinking very early on that has no basis to be actually made.

I'm really not sure how boom's post where he voted for me and pythag in the same post, and this now very clear vote on me with the intent of giving the wagon on me steam, are related at all, and even if they are related, how it makes my condescension of his latest vote "fake"

You saw him voting you as well as Pythag, meaning you know he was down to vote either one of you, as you demonstrated you knew by asking about the double vote. Therefore it doesn't track that you would be surprised and ask if it was my case that pushed him to vote, when you obviously knew he was down to vote you.

 

[Malakandra]

fontisian do you have any insight or thoughts into your slots previous readlist?

 

[Malakandra]

**** it I'm probably wrong on this fine

Unvote: Chaco
Vote: Wam

Sigh, this post is good.

I need to figure out the ratio of how many short just town posts balance out the contradictory and dirty looking arguments/posts.

 

[fontisian]

fontisian do you have any insight or thoughts into your slots previous readlist?

Nope.

That's like asking me if I have any thoughts on a random dead person's readlist. I disagree on a bunch of things, likely due to different experiences and random chance. Could he be right and I'm wrong? Sure. Am I going to care at all? Probably not. The dude said he was replacing out partially because of issues following along without a computer, so I don't thing there's any reason for me to subordinate my judgement to his, outside, like, the vote until I figure out where I actually want it to be.

 

[Malakandra]

Nope.

That's like asking me if I have any thoughts on a random dead person's readlist. I disagree on a bunch of things, likely due to different experiences and random chance. Could he be right and I'm wrong? Sure. Am I going to care at all? Probably not. The dude said he was replacing out partially because of issues following along without a computer, so I don't thing there's any reason for me to subordinate my judgement to his, outside, like, the vote until I figure out where I actually want it to be.

fair, I was mainly wondering if he dropped any notes in his PM, I usually do that.

 

[fontisian]

Sigh, this post is good.

I need to figure out the ratio of how many short just town posts balance out the contradictory and dirty looking arguments/posts.

Why the sigh, friend? For the other part, talk it out.

 

[fontisian]

fair, I was mainly wondering if he dropped any notes in his PM, I usually do that.

He sure did not. Tbf, if he had, I still probably wouldn't care. He had no more information that I have, and I don't really have the time to get into his mindset when I already know what he was.

 

[Malakandra]

Why the sigh, friend? For the other part, talk it out.

Its just mildly frustrating to spend all this time and post effort arguing over arguments I still find to not make sense and just be bad, then see like a 10 word post that makes you feel the opposite way.

 

[Malakandra]

not the opposite way about the arguments, the opposite way of the slot alignment

 

[fontisian]

I'm trying to be kind of hands off here, because I don't want to put myself in a position where I'm trying to guide you and end up with you as a blind-spot again.

But.

You're not always going to get everyone's arguments. Just like with Gorf, we have different experiences and think differently, and some seeing things in a different way doesn't mean they're mafia, and, in fact, strong disagreements of opinions often come from town. I have personally found that feeling of "this is just town" or "this is manipulating me" to be more accurate than most logical take-downs. It does not always work, and it fact worked very badly with you.

I recommend hashing the points out for yourself, and comparing the feelings from the arguments and the feelings from the one liners. This has the added benefit of letting other people in on your process.

 

[Malakandra]

Anyway, I like that post because it just kinda feel honest, (I guess I'm seeing what you were talking about Fonti) The progression tracks with their conversation with Synchronicity before then, and instead of feeling the need to drop a big post explaining why they are now changing, they just drop a short post switching out.

However, I think my points about their arguments being illogical and actions seeming fake still hold up, and while the switch does feel honest, if I take a step back from that, the thread patterns were leading away from suspicion on Chaco and a scum FF could see that this one wasn't going anywhere and then switch over to Wam, who from what I've seen is pretty low on most peoples lists (including mine)

Thoughts Chaco fontisian ? or anyone else thats online