Things I had in mind for Brawl+.

[GHNeko]

1. Brawl+ JC Grabs. The idea behind this is that we bring back JC grabs, but rather than having Melee JC Grabs, we nerf the tech and make it where its not the best option. How? The idea is this. When you do a JC Grab, if you miss, you suffer more post-hitbox lag than a standing grab, but less than a dash grab. The idea behind this is so that you can be punished for abusing JC grabs and missing. I wanted to ask PK if it was possible with CAM and some extra coding. The idea seems plausable though.
2. Dashing backwards out of a crouch. I've brought this up a decent amount of times before in #WBR. Currently, you can dash fowards out of a crouch, which is fine and dandy in all, but you cant crouch backwards out of a dash. Why? I dont know. Why should this matter? It helps characters with stutter step tactics and it allows characters to space smashes better and allows for improved turn around tactics. You can also use crouching backwards out of a dash to help punished whiffed approaches (ala classic WD uses)
3. Removing that single frame during a jump that allows you to do nothing. Not even buffer. Currently, when you jump there is a frame in which you can register no inputs, not even for buffering. That is dumb imo, and unless it stops some sort of retardedly too good tactic, it shouldnt exist.We're getting a code for this, and that's final. K? Just because we can't do it with our current codes doesn't mean we should drop it. -leaf
4. Techjumping. I wall of texted a few months ago about the ability to techjump of the ground. What I had in mind was that when you held up or the jump button when you tech, you tech into a jump with 70% of the jumping animation is invincible, and you'd be able to aerial out of it at the end of the animation. Something like this, I believe, would add copious amounts of depth to tech chasing and the defensive game in general, as because of that 30% of vulnerability and inability to act, it wouldnt always be a smart choice, but one none the less.
5. Fixing Crawling so that you get the same momentum/distance when Crawling right when facing left. Currently, there is a sort of AT that characters who can crawl, can do. Where you dash to the right, DC, then immediately Crawl Back and let go of the stick. What this does is it causes the character to slide back in a neutral position ala WD. The issue with that is that its only effective when done facing the right. If you face the left, the distance this tech does is cut down to nearly a 1/4, effectively removing all of its potency and making is that it's better for you to face the right at all times. Currently, the characters that are using it or trying to figure out how ot use it are Shiek and Luigi, though Pikachu can probably utilize this as well.
6. Fix walljumping. Period. As it stands, stages other than custom stages have points on the side of their walls near bounderies (bottom and top) where a character cannot wall jump. This point also exist right below the ledge of a stage (ie Warioware or YI). This effectively hinders the wall jumping mechanic and causes people to KO because they input the walljump command, but on a spot of a stage that doesnt allow it. That should realy be fixed.

1 and 4 are the choices with the least amount of possibility of happening, but hey. I think they'd be positive additions. :V

Thoughts?

EDIT: Added a 5th thing I had in mind.

EDIT: added 6th as it was a past concern that was forgotten.

 

[goodoldganon]

1-3 all sound great to me and I support them. 4 needs some serious work to be something to consider.

 

[GHNeko]

I wanted to survey. the general populace of smashers to see how something like Tech jumping would be received.

 

[Deleted member]

the JC grab should be possible with some work, dunno if we can edit the frame speeds of it though.

 

[JCaesar]

How are your JC grabs any different from the DC grabs which are already possible, other than being laggier and probably tough to code?

I actually like the idea of techjumping from the ground (in theory at least), but it may be too extreme of a change to be well-received by the mainstream B+ players, the high-level ones in particular.

The other things seem fine but they may be tough to code and they shouldn't be a high priority.

 

[GHNeko]

How are your JC grabs any different from the DC grabs which are already possible, other than being laggier and probably tough to code?

JC+ grabs can be done during an initial dash and a standard dash. DC grabs cannot be done during an init dash.

JC+ grabs, when whiffed are more punishable than DC Grabs.

You need to be smarter with JC+ grabs than DC grabs since you are vulnerable longer if you miss, but DC Grabs require better spacing and timing.

This is just off the top of my head.

 

[JCaesar]

So why don't we just allow DC during the initial dash animation? I don't think it would be overpowered (in fact, anything that reduces the effectiveness of shielding is a good thing imo), and making JC+ grabs would be unnecessary.

Or is the whole point of this just because you're used to doing it in Melee and you don't wanna have to adjust your reflexes to hit down instead of up?

 

[Deleted member]

I like DC over JC. if you mess up a DC you end up crouching, if you mess up a JC you jump.

 

[GHNeko]

So why don't we just allow DC during the initial dash animation? I don't think it would be overpowered (in fact, anything that reduces the effectiveness of shielding is a good thing imo), and making JC+ grabs would be unnecessary.

Or is the whole point of this just because you're used to doing it in Melee and you don't wanna have to adjust your reflexes to hit down instead of up?

Dude. I prefer DC over JC, but people wanted JC in, but when you compare the Melee JC to normal DC, MJC > DC and all other forms of grabs.

Hell, I was fighting for Initial DC when we first got DC but it was shot down by people. So I was like, "okay. Let's try to see if I can do something." and that's when I came up with the idea for a JC+ that can make the JC people happy, add some real tech skill, and allow me to ****ing grab out of an initial dash.

But really, I'd take Init DC over JC+ ANYDAY, because I can at least Dash > DC > Pivot fsmash immediately out of a dash. V:

I like DC over JC. if you mess up a DC you end up crouching, if you mess up a JC you jump.

Well, that can be both good or bad based on who you are and who you use. :V

 

[JCaesar]

Tell the Melee 2.0 wishers to go suck a nut. There's nothing wrong with DC grabs (especially if we allow DC for initial dash animations) and there's absolutely no reason to create a new mechanic just to appeal to people's Melee reflexes.

Can we in the WBR at least all agree that Init DC grabs make more sense in B+ than this new JC+ thing?

 

[Deleted member]

sounds about right. we don't need to copy melee, we have brawl+!

 

[CT Chia]

I personally never thought we should add JC grabs. Brawl already has its own revision of the grab game with Pivot Grabs. People should use to learn to use them more instead of trying to make a new type of grab.

 

[GHNeko]

Tell the Melee 2.0 wishers to go suck a nut. There's nothing wrong with DC grabs (especially if we allow DC for initial dash animations) and there's absolutely no reason to create a new mechanic just to appeal to people's Melee reflexes.

Can we in the WBR at least all agree that Init DC grabs make more sense in B+ than this new JC+ thing?

I'd support Init DC tactics. :V

sounds about right. we don't need to copy melee, we have brawl+!

Brawl+ original and exclusive ATs please.

I personally never thought we should add JC grabs. Brawl already has its own revision of the grab game with Pivot Grabs. People should use to learn to use them more instead of trying to make a new type of grab.

...what? What's wrong with having a handful of grab options? Pivot grabs grab behind you, not infront of you (unless you do a retreating pivot grab...which is still moving back anyways.)

Having a plethora of grab options that have trade offs and aren't arbitrary add depth to the grab game, which is what I wanted to do to B+.

Add depth and tech skill.

 

[CT Chia]

yea if your standing right, dashing left then immediately pivot grabbing right should have more range iirc than if u just grabbed while standing in the first place if im not mistaken.

the thing is just that its not really needed. theres plenty of other things we could be working on to make the game better.

for instance, finding a true way to make the game less campy. now THAT will make it a competitive game lol.

i would also like to try and think of an original tactic that could add depth, not just adding one that was in melee

 

[kupo15]

A cool idea might be to make the shield half as big or 3/4ths and adjust the shield loss and damage so that it is equal to the original. What this will do is force the use of moving your shield so that if you want to block say pits dtilt, you actually have to angle it down

 

[GHNeko]

Added something else to OP. :V

 

[JCaesar]

1000x yes for suggestion #5. I really hope it's fixable. These are the kind of ATs that B+ needs, and this one is currently broken.

 

[GHNeko]

Broken in the sense that it doesnt work. Rofl.

 

[goodoldganon]

Broken in the sense that it doesnt work. Rofl.

Thanks pal...I think that was the point of his post...

 

[JCaesar]

Um ... yeah ...

 

[GHNeko]

Right. Added a 6th idea. :V