GMaster171
Smash Ace
Ness Super Thread
Purpose
This thread is made to aid newer players in some of the uses of Ness’ moveset. Many moves have special uses that some might not be aware of. These descriptions are the best uses as concluded by the Ness back room :D. They are still fairly opinion based, and they aren’t meant to be taken as an absolute guideline.
Ness as a character
pros: Strong combo game, strong grab game, good mobility, characters scales very well with user's skill
cons: poor range on most moves, poor stage control/presence, poor recovery against most, suffers against projectiles.
Some stats about Ness
He is the 15th heaviest character in the game, meaning he will not fall over from shine
He has the 7th slowest walking speed, and is tied with Toon Link for 16th fastest run speed
He is tied with Pikachu and Sonic for 13th highest full hop, and tied with Sonic for 15th highest short hop
He is tied with 7 other characters (Falcon and others) for the 12th fastest aerial mobility
He has the 21st fastest air speed, the 23rd fastest falling speed, and the 27th fastest fast fall speed
His jump squat is 4 frames long
He has the 3rd shortest standing grab range and the 9th shortest pivot grab range
He has the 9th longest wavedash
Terms to Know
DJC
This is an acronym for Double Jump Cancel. Ness’ double jump is unique in that you can cancel the upwards momentum gain by doing an aerial during the jump. Depending on when you do the aerial, it has different effects. Doing an aerial at the start of the double jump causes Ness to drop from where he is, and do the aerial, meaning you can cancel a full hop into a DJ, then cancel that into, say, fair, to quickly get back to the ground with a hit box in front of you. Doing an aerial later in the double jump causes him to retain the momentum he already has, but gain no more, making him go in an arc from where you cancelled the double jump. As a technique, it allows Ness to do very quick, very low aerials on command and to control his aerial movement more than most other characters. Combining this with the fact Ness’ double jump can give him a large amount of horizontal momentum by holding forwards or backwards when starting the jump, it also opens quick horizontal movement in addition to the quick aerials. DJC is a very vital technique for Ness, as it allows him to overcome some of his lacking points, such as his low range, by being quick and being able to control where and when he hits. There are two main methods of doing this, and they both have a specific use. One method is doing Y/X->tap jump->c-stick aerial/nair. This allows you to do the lowest aerials possible (low enough to land before dair comes out, less than 5 frames), also meaning the fastest aerials possible. Unfortunately this method nets very little horizontal movement, and therefore little horizontal range. The second method sort of remedies this however, by hitting a jump button twice while holding right/left, then doing an aerial, you get a quick, low aerial with the added bonus of getting the horizontal momentum from the DJ. This covers a lot more ground than the first method, but is noticeably slower. Incorporating both into your play is a very important of getting good with Ness, as it opens up an insane number of options to keep Ness low to the ground and still spacing with his aerials.Rising Double Jump
The Rising double jump refers to Ness’ ability to choose whither to cancel his DJ or not, depending on if you hold the button or not. Holding the button causes Ness to continue his double jump while he does the aerial, coining the term rising aerials. It’s something that adds more movement options in some situations, and in general boosts Ness’ ability to blend and mix up his movement and approaches.B-Reversal
A more general technique in PM. By hitting the opposite direction you are facing during the startup of b-moves, you will turn to that direction, and your momentum will shift completely, to the opposite direction. This is fairly confusing in writing so an example would be: Ness does a running SH PK fire to the right, during the startup of PKF he hits left, which causes Ness to turn around, to begin moving left with equal momentum he was moving right with, and continue the move. For Ness, he gets use of B-reversal with Magnet and PKfire, both of which he can manipulate his momentum with to make hitting an opponent easier or being safe.
Basic moves
Jab
Quick gtfo, fairly safe. Jab 1 and jab 2 are too slow to jab cancel into anything. Jab 3 has low knock back, but is decent at getting people off of you in a pinch.
F-Tilt
Similar to Luigi’s, quick mid-range poke, and good for catching missed sweet spots when other options won’t come out in time. Not safe on shield/at low%
D-tilt
Very quick short range poke, makes mis-spaced aerials on shield safe in some situations. Can be spammed for quick damage at low %s and cancels quick overall. Pops up into combo/kill at higher %s
U-Tilt
Short range juggler/combo starter. Head is invulnerable during hit box frames. Note that it doesn't hit behind Ness. Situational anti-air
Dash Attack
Slow combo starter with decent. First hit has no knockback, 2nd hit has outwards knockback, and 3rd hit sends opponents up into combos. Weak first and 2nd hits mean that CC or CC->shield beats the move easily. Not a good move overall, but it's decent as a mix up.
U-Smash
Excellent anti air. Charging hit box makes it immune to impatient CCers. Charging hit box can also sit over ledges to reset recoveries/stuff moves. Arm is invincible during swing, meaning it can beat quite a few moves outright. Hit box lasts a deceptively long time; until the yoyo has completely disappeared. Very strong tool against floaties or characters with poor aerial movement, or in general those who can’t get around a well placed smash. Kills at high %s. Quick enough to juggle fast fallers fairly well.
D-Smash
Multi-hitting charging hit box beats impatient CCers and hangs over ledges to reset recoveries or stuff moves. Swing puts Yoyo further back than it appears, giving deceptive range. Low trajectory, strong hit and very long hit box favors edge guards. Hit box lasts a deceptively long time; until the yoyo has completely disappeared Other uses include mix ups with aerial approaches. Not safe on shield due to KB direction.
F-Smash
Boasts the 2nd highest range and strongest power available to Ness. Very strong hit box and very high damage, in exchange for a slow start up. Uses tipper system, further away hit boxes do more damage/knockback (notified by the ping sound at max range). Hits below the ledge when angled down, and hits very high when angled up. Outer hit boxes are fairly safe on shield due to pushback/stun, although a few characters can still manage to catch Ness during the end lag.
Uair
2nd slowest aerial. Ness’ vertical juggler at low-mid %s (leading into itself or other aerials),having a large swinging hit box, low base knock back and fairly high knock back growth. Killer at high %s. guaranteed follow-ups out of d-throw on most characters.
Bair
Slowest aerial (impossible to instant unlike others), but highest damage. Low enough base knockback to combo near 0%, but high enough knockback growth to be used as a staple kill move. Has sex kick properties; weak hit combos much later than strong hit (even into itself). Hits very low to the ground when done out of a DJC, meaning it’s the easiest aerial to shield poke with. Due to this, the increased hit lag from the electrical hit box and Ness low body while doing the move and landing, it is fairly safe on shield, provided you dash away if in front, to avoid them grabbing you.
Fair
3rd fastest aerial, most damaging when all hits connect; Ness’ universal aerial tool. Having the highest range of Ness’ aerials combined with large amounts of stun makes this move an incredible overall tool, leading to grounded options such as grab/tilts easily. As a air to air tool, it leads into other aerials provided you follow the opponent’s DI/knockback. Good follow up out of d-throw at low %s, often leading to another grab.
Nair
Ness’ quickest aerial. A very strong anti-pressure tool, being his quickest option out of shield (other than grab) and out of hit stun. Possesses sex kick properties, meaning it has a strong starting hit box, good for kills or reversals, and a weaker lingering hit box, good for tricking opponents and getting low % gimps. The strong hit of nair continues comboing at %s where bair/uair have too much knockback. Very safe overall, due to its quick and lingering hit box, combined with Ness’ movement.
Dair
Ness' 2nd fastest aerial, 2nd most damaging. Lightning quick out of DJC/shield, immune to CC due to meteor hit box and lingers for a decent amount of time. It doesn't knock down until mid %s on most characters, so follow ups upon hitting grounded opponents are possible. At mid %s it pops them up into juggles, or into another dair for a tech chase situation. At killing %s this pops them up into a rising uair/bair for kills. It is a mid strength meteor, and is effective against characters with poor vertical recovery, or when hit low/far off stage
Grabs and Throws
Ness' grab
Ness has below average grab range, but above average grab speed; his grabs end quick than most others do. Even with this trait however, it is advisable to combo into grabs whenever possible. With practice the lack of range becomes less of a problem, but will always remain a factor. Ness' overall grab game is very powerful, so getting grabs often will be an aim, as most of Ness' low % combos emphasize. A unique feature of Ness is that his dash grab rivals most other’s standing grabs in terms of speed. So when grabbing without time to perfectly space, a dash grab will do better with only a slightly longer punish window. Unfortunately, Ness’ throws are neither similar enough nor quick enough to be used as DI mix ups with each other, meaning your opponent will always have adequate time to DI.
F-Throw
Highest damage of Ness’ throws along with very high base knockback but very low knockback growth. Good for moving opponents around or getting them offstage at low %s for an early gimp.
B-Throw
Highest damage. Opposite of f-throw, this throw has almost no base knockback, but very high knockback growth, becoming a staple kill move when throws no longer combo into uair.
D-Throw
Ness' best throw overall .Leads into combos at all but extreme %s, or against floaties at high %s. Almost guarantees follow-ups against all DI angles, through uair, magnet and fair. Low % re-grab combos are very possible out of d-throw, meaning Ness has a 'loop' of sorts to build damage (these will be explained in more depth later). Sets up guaranteed tech chasing situations against fast fallers, where re-grabs are very possible, along with other options. Only time to not use d-throw are extreme %s in general (where b-throw outright kills)
U-Throw
Fairly high base knockback but low knockback growth. Good for getting opponents above you, setting up juggles and abusing characters with bad air speeds or poor descending options. Excels against fast fallers, netting re-grabs at low %s, guaranteed follow ups at low to high% and leads to kills at higher %s.
Specials
PK Flash
Chargeable projectile that travels left or right from Ness (depending on how you hold the control stick). Rises slightly before falling slowly, and upon impacting any surface, it will disappear without exploding. It will explode automatically upon becoming level with where it was spawned (to ground level if used on the ground). Damage and Knockback increases with charge, becoming Ness' strongest attack at full charge. Due to the fact it charges slowly, and leaves Ness wide open, it remains a situational move. The best place to use it is to edge guard people coming from above the ledge, or those who can’t sweet spot well (as it hits below the ledge).
PK Thunder 1 (the projectile)
controllable projectile with two hit boxes; a main one in the head, which deals moderate damage and knock back, but destroys the projectile; and a tail hit box, which deals low damage and no knock back, but can hit multiple times. Good for ending a juggle for that little extra damage, and for stealing jumps from recovering characters. Also excels at gimping characters with poor recoveries due to the tail hit box resetting their falling speed after each hit. Being struck while the projectile causes it to fly off in the direction it was left in, hitting anyone in the way, even Ness himself. Striking Ness with his own PK Thunder 1 activates his recovery; PK Thunder 2.
PK Thunder 2 (upon striking yourself with PK Thunder 1)
Very powerful, very long, but completely linear and very predictable recovery. Boasts invincibility during the initial hit box frames (the strongest ones), and lasting hit boxes throughout most of the move. Also boasts very low landing lag, often leaving Ness able to act before the momentum wears off. Can only sweet spot the ledge from above, but can 'ride' walls on some stages to, in effect, sweet spot from below. Draw backs include how linear and predictable is it, and how easy it is to poke Ness out of it, given that the opponent doesn't misjudge the distance. On stage it takes a long time to set up, but it's safe on shield, retains the low land lag and the later hit boxes can even combo into grabs or smashes at mid %s.
PK Fire
Ness' most versatile projectile. Ness shoots a small bolt forward or and a 45 degree angle down when on the ground and in the air respectively. PK Fire can be b-reversed to swing Ness' momentum in the opposite direction, and cancels upon landing with low lag. upon coming in contact with a character, a shield or a non-transcendent hit box, it bursts into a wall of fire. These walls of fire hit rapidly for low damage, but the main attractions are the lock down and follow up power it gives to Ness. While in the fire, Ness has the ability to continue attacking, or grab the opponent, and some attacks will result in no knock back due to the PK fire's hit box overriding the attack's. Limitations include throwing over PK Fire, which may result in the opponent breaking free during the throw. Overall it's one of Ness' best zoning tools and should be utilized frequently.
PSI Magnet
A very versatile tool in Ness' arsenal. Originally intended as a way for Ness to absorb energy projectiles to heal, its uses have expanded greatly. Upon activation, it has a weak hit box covering Ness' entire body, similar to the spacies' shine. After this hit box, the magnet can be jump cancelled, and thus into a DJC aerial, or JC grab/u-smash, depending on where you use it. This weak hit box works in combos until mid-high %s, and is great for extending and getting more damage out of combos. The full use in combos will be explained later on. The down side to the magnet is that upon absorbing a projectile, Ness undergoes lag, during which he cannot do any action (unless he is being repeatedly put into the lag, then he may drop), meaning it will not always be safe to absorb projectiles. On the offensive side, the hit box is rather slow and weak, meaning some characters may strike out of hit stun or CC at low %s.
Combos
Although Ness has trouble getting a good hit on some opponents, his combo game makes up for it by being quick, technical and deadly, often netting 60% or more off of a good hit or a grab at lower %s. In this section I will go over what is generally agreed to be his best tools for combos. This section will be built on as people contribute and explore Ness’ expanding combo game. It doesn’t aim to tell you what you need to use, it just serves as a reference when trying to get good confirms or when squeezing the most out of a given combo.
Dair
Dair earns its place as one of Ness’ best combo tools due to its frame 5 meteor hit box. It’s a very quick move out of DJC, and its properties allow it to be useful at almost all %s. At lower %s, it will not put a grounded opponent into hit stun, but rather leave them reeling from the hit for about a second, leaving them wide open for a follow up, the best of which is grab. One thing to be cautious of is if you hit an airborne character with dair at low %s, they still won’t go into hit stun and they will get the reeling animation, but they will be able to act immediately after landing, meaning they can shield or use a quick move to punish Ness. Hitting opponents at mid to high %s does cause hit stun, meaning follow ups will be slightly different. Hitting grounded opponents when dair starts to knock down will only give a small window for a follow up, as they will land quickly and be able to tech. As % grows however, dair leads into usmash and utilt, and then into any aerial as you get into kill %s (you might have to use rising aerials to get them at the higher %s, don’t worry too much of them swinging or air dodging out of hit stun, dair on a grounded opponent has years of that). Hitting aerial opponents sends them directly into the ground, or to the bottom border (remember dair is a meteor so they have the ability to meteor cancel), leading to some tech chase situations on stage, which are easier if they miss a tech expecting you to do another aerial than dair, or gimping situations on characters with mediocre vertical recoveries (Falco, DK, Bowser). Overall dair is a very good combo starter, and should be a staple move where safe, to keep the opponent wary of quick combos/kills.
Fair
Fair also needs to be mentioned when it comes to combos; it is an amazing combo starter due to its range and multi hit properties. The move itself hits 5 times, 4 times with nearly no knockback but very nice stun, and a final hit with low knockback, enough to combo/gimp but not to kill. Hitting the opponent with any part of the move at low %s then landing nets a grab easily on most of the cast, and this of course leads to damaging combos. As %s get higher, the final hit can begin to knock down, meaning you will need to land before the 5th hit to still get grabs, which can easily be done with DJC. Outside of grab setups, fair can combo other aerial opponents fairly well (out of something like d-throw) by following their DI and using your rising DJ to get the second aerial (nair or dair works best). Fair works so well because it is both his strong spacing tool, as well as a good combo starter, meaning a large part of Ness’ game is based around this move.
Uair
Uair needs a small mention as a very quick low % damage racking move. Out of some setups (d-throw bad DI, utilt or straight out uair), uair can easily combo into itself using either DJC or shffl. This combo goes on for 5 or 6 uairs and a good way to end it is with a rising uair into bair or dair as a combo finisher. Outside of this, uair stands as a combo finisher, having high knockback growth and a vertical trajectory, meaning it kills from anywhere on the stage at high %s.
Magnet
Magnet is a more technical combo tool, and is almost exclusively something to add into an already developed combo to add a little more damage and style. Magnet has a fairly quick start hit box when it starts, and this hit box has lot knockback, knockback growth and a decent amount of stun. In addition to this, magnet can be jump cancelled at any point after the first hit box, which enables Ness to do his own kind of pillaring. One example of this is the combo d-throw->fair->grab; where we can add a SH magnet before the fair and still do the exact same combo, just with the added damage from the magnet. This works until late-mid %s, where magnet actually has a fair amount of knockback, but due to its angle also makes DJ follow ups a bit harder. Of course using magnet like this adds another level of technical requirement, but if you are capable of doing it, it adds a bit more damage in a game where every bit counts.
D-throw
D-throw is by far Ness’ best combo starter and reason why getting grabs with Ness is one of the focuses of his combos and even his move set. The throw itself is slow (like all his throws, meaning there’s no use in trying DI mix ups), but has a very combo friendly angle, with decent base knockback and low knockback growth, meaning you can get follow ups on any DI even into high %s on most of the cast (other than the floatier characters such as Peach/Puff). Another reason why the throw is so good is the fact the combos Ness can do out of it a low %s actually lead into another grab, which means he has a throw loop to quickly and effectively rack up damage, and even get yourself in a good position if you get them near ledges. I could write an entire section on the follow ups of this throw, but that has already been done so I will link (and shout out of course) The_NZA’s post in the combo discussion. It goes over some of the better options on all kinds of DI, and is a very good thing to read to get the basis of d-throw combos.
Edit: I am open to any and all suggestions. What to improve, what to add, and where to go from here. If you are curious about something Ness related, someone else most likely is as well. Ask here and I'll write up a section that will hopefully answer any questions
edit: Oct 11th. Added section on "terms to know"
