The ultimate community collaboration/competition: Team PC vs PS

[Riddle]

i like jirachi, dnite, keldeo, and heatran

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'm willing to bet DD Gyra would be really good in the current meta. It can take out the common TTar/Keldeo/Landorus core with just 1 turn of setup. Doesn't give a **** about being revenge killed by Scizor Breloom or Mamoswine. And we could pair it with something that doesn't give af about Rotom or Ferrothorn... Maybe something like Politoed/Gyra/Breloom?

 

[Circa]

Sub+Para Jirachi

Oh, the memories...

 

[Riddle]

Other pokemon that could potentially be cool to build around: Kyurem-B, Conkeldurr, Reuniclus, Volcarona

 

[IceArrow]

The best way to start the team building process is to have a Stealth Rock user. I recommend Terrakion or Garchomp.

 

[The Real Gamer]

You don't start building a team around a Stealth Rock user.

We need to decide on an archetype first.

I still say we go for a sand team focused around Ttar/Landorus.

 

[IceArrow]

Sand teams are ridiculously common and lose to Rain teams.

 

[Circa]

You don't start building a team around a Stealth Rock user.

Actually you could, but not directly. It would more or less just be deciding on the rest of your team based on the lead you choose, with that lead just so happening to carry Stealth Rock.

I don't know how much the lead metagame matters in this gen though. I miss the lead metagame...

I like Sub+3 Attack Heatran. I also like the idea of trying to make Kyurem-B really work; preferably CB set. Who the **** doesn't like to destroy worlds?

EDIT: I am also against using a sand team directly, although I'd be astounded if we managed to make a team that didn't have Ttar or Landorus, if not both.

EDIT2: Although I'd also like to clarify that my mind can't be changed on this sort of thing, either.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I dislike sand because it actively discourages using pokemon that rely on leftovers to increase their longevity UNLESS THEY'RE STEEL/ROCK/GROUND TYPE. Setup sweepers like SubCM Latias, offensive threats like Gengar, walls like Jellicent, etc. Those pokemon become so much better when they have a gradual source of recovery and the team uses rain to clear out sand.

also, I just don't like sand. it probably would be easier to make a sand team though than a rain team, since it has fewer hard counters.

 

[mood4food77]

volcarona teams are fun if done right and it can be used on sun and rain teams, that be a fun team to work with

 

[The Real Gamer]

Sand teams are ridiculously common and lose to Rain teams.

They are common because they work. And they stand up to Rain teams just as well as any other builds if you have the right support.

Actually you could, but not directly. It would more or less just be deciding on the rest of your team based on the lead you choose, with that lead just so happening to carry Stealth Rock.

I don't know how much the lead metagame matters in this gen though. I miss the lead metagame...

True "leads" like Azelf, Infernape, and Metagross aren't very common in Gen 5 thanks to team preview. Majority of the time people will lead with their weather starter/hazard setter/U-Turn or Volt Switcher and switch out.

Anyone wanna try Hyper Offense?

 

[UltiMario]

Sand or Weatherless are two team types I recommend.

Only issue with Weatherless it's hard to build something not weak to sun.

Sand doesn't really have any team issues but whatever

Volc and Kyurem-B would be okay but it means we'd really want a spinner (maybe not so much for Kyu but...) and there's not a great selection of those out there. Volc actually doesn't particularly need a weather, it works fine in all 4. It just means you need a weather on your team so you can control which one you're in.

 

[IceArrow]

Starmie is most likely the best spinner for a hyper offensive team.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Hyper offense depends a lot on the player playing it and coverage combinations rather than what exactly is on the team.

looking at the ideas everybody's posted, I say building a team around something that benefits from Kyurem-B smashing things into dust would be nice. Mixed set with Ice Beam/Earth Power/HP Fire/Outrage would be a great lure/wallbreaker that would clear out things that block our sweeper of choice.

I think Heatran is also a good thing because a lot of teams rely on outspeeding it rather than always switching into it to beat it, meaning Substitute would let it easily get hits in. It forces a lot of switches as well, which is a bonus.

It's hard to pick the first pokemon to base the team around. I think Landorus would be the best though. Any setup would be a good option, though I actually think Bulk Up or Calm Mind would be better than SD+RP.

 

[Riddle]

I don't really like basing teams around individual set-up sweepers. Those teams typically end up really dependent on team match up and have too narrow a focus. I think we should just pick something like Kyurem-B as the focus, and add sweeper(s) from there rather than vice-versa. This gives a broad direction, but nothing too limiting and allows for a more natural team-building process.

Incidentally, I think that either Subtran or any Kyurem-B set would work the best of the pokemon mentioned.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Kyurem would make a better centerpiece. Heatran is more of a support poke mostly used to counteract sun trams.

 

[UltiMario]

Kyu-B teams are fine.

Somehow the 700 BST monster is the 2nd most underrated thing in the metagame, so I'm cool with it.

 

[Riddle]

I think you may not be giving Heatran enough credit, TRG. SDef Heatran fills that role maybe, but Heatran is more than just that set, and the Substitute set that was mentioned specifically certainly isn't a supporter.

Kyurem-B seems to be agreed upon, though. Now we just need to determine the set.

 

[IceArrow]

Ya, I agree with Kurem-B but a spinner helps it a lot.

 

[Riddle]

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Teravolt / Mild
4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage

The specially-based mixed attacker (ripped straight from the Smogon analysis) seems like the ideal set for this. Hidden Power: Fire is an option over Earth Power or Draco Meteor, and Outrage is usable over Dragon Claw, but the listed moves are the ones that I'd prefer.

EDIT: Changed Dragon Claw to Outrage due to popular demand.

 

[mood4food77]

i like it, brute force is usually easier to work with (outside of a sub set but those are boring), what else should we pair without it outside of the obligatory heatran

 

[kirbyraeg]

I'd rather have Outrage over Dragon Claw, solely because of the nature of the set. Even though Scizor and Ferrothorn are both so common, HP Fire would only help if the weather was kept neutral, and we're still planning to run Heatran, making it less necessary and letting Draco Meteor get strong hits on things.

We need something to cover both Fighting and Rock, since Heatran helps with Dragon a little bit... It's hard to cover those weaknesses, but a good way to perhaps do it would be to have something like Gliscor, Jirachi, Latias, or even something like Slowbro.

 

[mood4food77]

well, even though claydol sucks, he covers all the options we need (resisting fighting and rock while rapid spinning), just an option to throw out there (even though we probably won't use him)

ummm, latias or slowbro would probably be our best bets

 

[UltiMario]

Outrage > DClaw

HP Fire isn't worth it unless it's the only Fire move we end up having on the team, and if that's the case we need to scrap the team and rebuild it.

 

[mood4food77]

well, i think we already decided to have heatran on the team so HP fire would definitely not be the only fire attack on the team

 

[UltiMario]

Nobody really decided on Heatran yet, m4f

We still need to be 100% on the Kyu-B set

 

[IceArrow]

I've never seen the need for Earth Power. Fusion Bolt is so much better for killing Skarmory and to have an Ice and Electric attack. Also I disagree with Heatran.

 

[UltiMario]

The point of Earth Power is that it's specially based Mixed, so EP/Ice Beam will do more than Fusion Bolt because EV investment.

Ice Beam 2HKOs Skarm anyways, so anything related to Skam is irrelevant.

 

[IceArrow]

If you are using Draco Meteor and Outrage it s relevant.

 

[Riddle]

You need Earth Power to hit steels, Jirachi and Heatran in particular. Kyurem would just be walled by too much if we got rid of EP.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I think you may not be giving Heatran enough credit, TRG. SDef Heatran fills that role maybe, but Heatran is more than just that set, and the Substitute set that was mentioned specifically certainly isn't a supporter.


Kyurem-B seems to be agreed upon, though. Now we just need to determine the set.

Heatran's a fantastic Pokemon... He just isn't nearly as effective offensively as he was in Gen 4 thanks to the prevalence of Drizzle teams. In my opinion his support sets are much more superior. I love how his weather trapper set in particular single-handedly demolishes Drizzle teams.

Nice to see we've agreed on Kyurem B though. I'm liking the set you posted. Looks like an excellent wall breaker. We should pair this guy with a sweeper that can go to town once Kyurem takes down a threat or two... Preferably something that can set up on Scizor's Bullet Punch since we'll be seeing a lot of those fired at Kyurem. Maybe something like Keldeo?

i like it, brute force is usually easier to work with (outside of a sub set but those are boring), what else should we pair without it outside of the obligatory heatran

I'm assuming you're taking part in the project now? If yes just say so and I'll add you to the list.

If you are using Draco Meteor and Outrage it s relevant.

Steels dude... steels

 

[Circa]

I agree with Keldeo, but I think we'll want something else too.

Maybe Gengar...but probably not. I'm just biased. I'll have to look at more stuff.

EDIT: I should probably note that my thought process behind Gengar as an alternative is more about playing the same person multiple times. Knowing our Kyurem-B doesn't carry HP Fire gives Scizor much less reason to resort to Bullet Punch on its revenge kill.

 

[The Real Gamer]

How about a Drizzle team centered around Kyurem and Keldeo?

Politoed/Kyurem/Keldeo/3 fillers

Poli for rain support and to combat opposing weather, Kyurem gets a pseudo-resistance to Fire attacks, and everyone knows Keldeo is a top threat in the rain.

Something like... Politoed/Kyurem/Keldeo/Scizor/Celebi/Jirachi

I know I'm jumping from point A to Z here but that's just how my mind works when I teambuild... Just throwing ideas out there.

 

[IceArrow]

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Teravolt / Mild
252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt

This is the best set to use in my opinion since you guys all like Earth Power. I agree with Keldeo but I don't really like Rain since every team has a counter to it.

 

[Riddle]

That set doesn't hit hard enough on the special side to justify Ice Beam and Earth Power. I doubt Earth Power does more than like 40% to Jirachi with those EVs. Speaking of the EVs, change the nature to Lonely and move some Attack EVs to Special Attack if you really want to use that set.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I say with stick with the set Riddle posted.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I don't think building a full rain team is the right path for kyu-b. Fusion Bolt and Earth Power are redundant when the EVs are split, as they have the same targets (most Steel-types).

This is the set I think we should use:

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
4 Atk/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Mild / Teravolt

Ice Beam
Outrage
Draco Meteor
Earth Power

DM+Outrage is the perfect one-two and will take out any non-steel it outspeeds that switches in to it. Ice Beam is reliable, and Earth Power is there for Jirachi/Heatran.

We should focus our teammate choices based on its weaknesses. It still gets countered by faster Dragons, which there are a lot of, so I think having teammates that focus on paralyzing key pokemon on the other team would help out immensely. It also has trouble with Steels that are neutral to Earth Power and/or have good special bulk if they aren't caught on the switch with the right move (Scizor/Ferrothorn), meaning we could either consider a trapping pokemon or something that can use them as easy switches. Landorus-T can give hazard support, scout, and sponge physical hits that would threaten Kyurem-B, and Jirachi can sponge most special hits while also providing paralysis and Wish support.

those are just ideas, we could really go about thinking about partners any number of ways. we could make it into a full rain team (don't really like it but we probably could make it work), a full sand team, hell we could even run HP Fire and earth power and stick it on a sun team so it can clear out niche walls to sun teams like Heatran and annihilate other weather-setters with its Outrage.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'll give a +1 to Landorus-T.

Probably the best pivot Pokemon in the OU metagame atm. The combination of Intimidate + U-Turn would give Kyu-B a lot of opportunities to safely come in and smash something.

 

[UltiMario]

I prefer +spe on my kyu-b sets

On phone so not gunna post more than that right now.

 

[kirbyraeg]

normally I'd agree with +Spe but I thought most haxorus/hydreigon/etc. all ran +Spe natures, meaning they'd beat it regardless. If that's not true, then +Spe is better to also guarantee getting the jump on lucario and rotom-w as well as modest hydreigon and adamant haxorus.