Blobface
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2015
- Messages
- 1,283
- NNID
- everyone1 (Bob)
- 3DS FC
- 3454-0482-6740
This could go in the AT thread, but I felt it was complicated and significant enough to warrant it's own thread.
Are you guys ready to see Ganondorf's secret weapon?
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INTRO
Most Ganondorf mains are familiar with the Tipman spike, the reverse hit of his U-air. It hits people at Semi-Spike angle that makes it amazing for edgeguarding. But it has some very interesting properties in Smash 4. If it hits a grounded opponent, it will never send them off the ground. They'll just slide. Normally this is unimportant, but if people slide off platforms, they won't be able to do anything till the hit the ground, and they can't tech. This means that you can slide people off platforms for guaranteed combos. I'll call this, the Tip N Slide; TNS for short.
SETUPS
The setup is mind-blowingly complex.
Your opponent needs to be on a platform.
That's... it.
Now obviously it's not that easy. People can always shield, dodge, or attack, but that's all you hypothetically need for this to work. You could just throw it out or even go for a hard read, but the two easiest ways however, are punishes and attacking someone out of a getup.
PUNISHES
This is fairly straightforward. If your opponent does something punishable on a platform, you punish it with a Tipman and start a combo. The most likely things you'll be punishing are Recovery Move landing lags and certain types of D-airs, but if they do anything that's punishable while on a platform, feel free to punish it with Tipman. Landing a Tipman punish is fairly similar to a standard getup, so for combos, refer to that section.
GETUP PUNISHES
The easiest way to force someone to getup is to knock them onto a platform in such a way that their only option is to tech. This can be done at a variety of % with almost any of Ganondorf's attacks, including D-throw, Dash Attack, D-tilt, and D-air. Getup options are pretty limited on a platform, so it's very easy to read and even react to what getup they choose and tipman accordingly.
Note: usual caveats about rage, weight, friction etc. apply to percent ranges. They aren't absolute, but they provide a good framework.
UPDATE: After Aerudo-ing someone onto a platform, you can get a TNS off a left/right roll read with either SH U-air or Drop DJ U-air for low %s and high %s respectively. If they do a normal getup you can land any of Ganon's smashes guaranteed, and if they getup attack you're stuck with Grab/F-tilt/D-tilt.
Rolls: Low %, Roughly 0-50%
Rolls: Higher %, 50%+
Normal Getup, Getup attack, and punishes
These are much less consistent but definitely the most rewarding. At lower %'s (less than 30 or 40%), you want to send people to the closer side of the platform to ensure they fall off. At higher %'s, you want to send people to the farther side of the platform to maximize hitstun. As shown, you can combo almost anything off of these provided you don't misjudge, in which case they'll either A) not slide off at all or B) Slide off too far for you to follow up. It's not a mistake you'll be punished for, but it will mess up your combo.
OTHER INFO
Floaty characters
Floaty characters take longer to fall to the ground, allowing you to land more diverse followups. There is one catch though. Extreme floaties, like Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Rosalina (because Sakurai is a heartless monster) can actually break out of this, albeit just barely. They gain control just before they hit the ground.
"DI"
Jab Locks
If you dump someone on a platform and they miss a tech, you can Tipman them to jab lock them on the platform for a free followup, including a TNS. Make sure you're sending them towards the far side of the platform they land on, because if you slide someone off a platform while they're laying on the ground, they can act out of it.
TIPMAN TIPS: TYPES OF U-AIR
Basics
These are fairly straightforward. If you're below a platform and think you can TNS someone, you use either Fullhop U-air (shorter characters) or DJ U-air (taller characters). If you're on a platform and you think you can get one, you can try a SH U-air, but note that it will whiff on some shorter characters. SH U-air will be your go-to Aerudo followup for low% TNSing
Runoff Tipman
Here, you run off the platform and DJ U-air. It works well against short and tall characters, though it obviously works better on tall characters. The really nice thing about this method is that you can Aerudo immediately if you think they might shield, which sets up for a TNS all over again. It does have its weaknesses though, since it only really covers about half the platform well and requires you to be right next to the edge to do it.
Drop Tipman
To Drop Tipman, you drop through the platform and immediately DJ. This is the hardest one to do and also one of the best. Due to DJ coming out instantly out of a platform drop it bypasses Ganon's slow jumpsquat while giving you plenty of height to space and time your tipman. As shown you can even use it to send people behind you for high % TNSing, making it your go-to Aerudo followup at high %s.
WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE PUT TOGETHER?
Note: Minus that one tech opportunity, this is all guaranteed, even the U-smash, though if they DI the D-air, you'll have to use U-air.
Ganondorf already loves platforms, so start murdering your opponents with wholesome summer fun today! This is a very open-ended tech, so I highly encourage you to play around with it yourself and see what you can do.
Buy a Wham-o Slip N Slide Hydroplane Double With 2 Slide Boogies for only 32.60 USD
Are you guys ready to see Ganondorf's secret weapon?
Most Ganondorf mains are familiar with the Tipman spike, the reverse hit of his U-air. It hits people at Semi-Spike angle that makes it amazing for edgeguarding. But it has some very interesting properties in Smash 4. If it hits a grounded opponent, it will never send them off the ground. They'll just slide. Normally this is unimportant, but if people slide off platforms, they won't be able to do anything till the hit the ground, and they can't tech. This means that you can slide people off platforms for guaranteed combos. I'll call this, the Tip N Slide; TNS for short.
SETUPS
The setup is mind-blowingly complex.
Your opponent needs to be on a platform.
That's... it.
Now obviously it's not that easy. People can always shield, dodge, or attack, but that's all you hypothetically need for this to work. You could just throw it out or even go for a hard read, but the two easiest ways however, are punishes and attacking someone out of a getup.
PUNISHES
This is fairly straightforward. If your opponent does something punishable on a platform, you punish it with a Tipman and start a combo. The most likely things you'll be punishing are Recovery Move landing lags and certain types of D-airs, but if they do anything that's punishable while on a platform, feel free to punish it with Tipman. Landing a Tipman punish is fairly similar to a standard getup, so for combos, refer to that section.
GETUP PUNISHES
The easiest way to force someone to getup is to knock them onto a platform in such a way that their only option is to tech. This can be done at a variety of % with almost any of Ganondorf's attacks, including D-throw, Dash Attack, D-tilt, and D-air. Getup options are pretty limited on a platform, so it's very easy to read and even react to what getup they choose and tipman accordingly.
Note: usual caveats about rage, weight, friction etc. apply to percent ranges. They aren't absolute, but they provide a good framework.
UPDATE: After Aerudo-ing someone onto a platform, you can get a TNS off a left/right roll read with either SH U-air or Drop DJ U-air for low %s and high %s respectively. If they do a normal getup you can land any of Ganon's smashes guaranteed, and if they getup attack you're stuck with Grab/F-tilt/D-tilt.
Rolls: Low %, Roughly 0-50%
Getup roll towards the ledge
If you land on the platform after the TNS, you can run off the platform to land another Tipman to jab-lock, but you need to be extremely quick about it. If you don't land on the platform (as shown in the video above), your options are fairly limited, as the only thing you can really do is land another aerial, a N-air or a B-air. It will put them offstage however, where Ganondorf's excellent edguarding can come into play.
Getup roll towards the center
(I was still learning the spacing at the time this was recorded, so I do flub one attempt)
Here your options are open regardless of whether you land on the platform or not. As shown in the video, you can U-air jab lock to land any attack you want on the forced getup. You can also land a N-air into a grab, or a B-air for raw damage.
Here your options are open regardless of whether you land on the platform or not. As shown in the video, you can U-air jab lock to land any attack you want on the forced getup. You can also land a N-air into a grab, or a B-air for raw damage.
Getup roll towards the ledge
Higher %'s are interesting for this tech. At this point, you want to send them the opposite direction you did at low %'s. It'll send them all the way across the platform, putting them in hitstun for a thoroughly innapropriate amount of time. You can land plenty of things out of this, but stuff like SH D-air, SH F-air, and Dash attack are easiest and require the least precision.
Getup roll towards the center
A kill setup! Same principle applies. Hit them the opposite direction then land whatever you want.
OTHER INFO
Floaty characters
It is possible for people to move left and right while falling to the ground, but it's not an issue for the most part. The only characters that can really influence where they go are characters that fall slow, have high airspeed, and small, round frames. AKA, characters that can "DI" Flame Choke, like Mario and Wario. Most characters can barely move half a character length.
TIPMAN TIPS: TYPES OF U-AIR
Basics
WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE PUT TOGETHER?
Ganondorf already loves platforms, so start murdering your opponents with wholesome summer fun today! This is a very open-ended tech, so I highly encourage you to play around with it yourself and see what you can do.
Buy a Wham-o Slip N Slide Hydroplane Double With 2 Slide Boogies for only 32.60 USD
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