The "Snake does not belong in Brawl" debate

[SolidSonic]

One thing I have been noticing more and more on this board is, people stating how Snake "does not belong in Brawl".

This sentiment is expressed in many different ways:
~~ "Snake does not fit in with the crowd. He does not belong in Brawl. He does not make sense in Brawl. He is to different. He is to realistic. He does not work in Brawl. He was not meant for Brawl. There is no reason for him to be in Brawl." ~~

These statements confuse me. There might not have been an actual debate going on about Snake's worthiness, but there does seem to be two polarities on the subject. So I felt compelled to make this thread, in order to understand the two different camp's perspectives.

I'm of course a representative of the "snake fits in just fine, he is freaking awesome" camp. So I'll be analyzing the rationals of the anti-Snake camp, and the points they have come up with.

Argument 1: Snake is not worthy of being in Brawl, other third party characters should come before him.

By what standard? If we were to look at Snakes fan base and fame world wide, and compare it to one of his competitor's (like Geno, Bomberman, Mega Man, Pack Man, etc), we would find his fan base / degree of fame either crushes said competitor or closely rivals the competitor. It is usually the case that people who downplay Snake in favor of another character, do so just because they are a big fanboy for said character. (e-gasp what a surprise) And of course, personal bias is not a proper measure when looking at a chars degree of worthiness. I shouldn't have to explain how highly acclaimed the MGS series is, and how popular the Snake character is -- so I won't.

Argument 2: Snake does not fit in with the Brawl roster, he is just to different.

Quite frankly, this is a laughable point to make. Yes he is very unique in comparison to the rest of the roster. So what? How on earth can more variety be a bad thing for a game like Brawl? If I'm not mistaken, Brawl is all about epic duels between the most iconic/popular video game characters, regardless of what said characters are like. Just look at the roster, we have a penguin with a hammer, an anime-like swordsmen, a chubby kid with telekinetic abilities, a plumber that shoots fireballs, a pair of Eskimos, and the rest of the circus.

-True, snake himself is more realistic in comparison to this crowd. He is a detailed human model, with no magic-like powers. A modern man, who uses guns and stealth. How do these traits make him unworthy of being in Brawl though? In the games he performs numerous 'bullet dodging' like feats, in an over the top bad arse fashion. That one side of him is unrealistic.

What kind of foolish collectivist mentality drives one to think Snake being different is reason enough to exclude him from Brawl? Even if he does not fit in with the circus that is Smash Bros, you gotta remember he doesn't even fit in his own game world. Snake has like one real friend in his games, Otacon. He is a loner, he has no family, no love interest, no community whom he affiliates himself with. Just a man with his mission and purpose. It is only natural for him to 'not fit in with the Brawl roster', heck he does not even fit in his own game world, this loner persona would naturally carry over to Brawl.


Well I've now lost my train of thought so I'll end the post for now.

Thoughts?

 

[LinkNSnake4Main]

To quote a very smart man on the subject of Ridley (as I believe it applies to this as well.)

Awkwardness is another poor excuse, you have pink puffballs, ****** twins, a fat cyan penguin in a king’s robe, plumbers that shoot fireballs, a yellow electric rat, a princess that practically changes genders, a race-car driver, a blue hedgehog that runs at super fast speed, an angel boy, just to name a few. Ridley would just be another face in Brawl’s freak show crowd.

 

[Kruton]

I agree that Snake is out of place. Way more than Sonic is (if people even consider him out of place unlike me). Snake does seem a little awkward in the Smash universe.

But Sakurai handled the situation perfectly, and I couldn't imagine Snake in this game any other way. His moves are creative and solid (no pun intended) to his character in MGS. It's a little odd that Mario and Yoshi make their cameo in Twin Snakes but whatever. I now can't imagine Brawl without Snake.

 

[Yes!!]

I think what a lot of Anti-Snake people don't understand is that Snake isn't even half as serious as people make him out to be.

If Hideo Kojima knows how to do anything it's poke fun at his own characters. Metal Gear games are all filled with tons of humor and there are way too many goofy Snake moments across the Metal Gear franchise for me to even count.

Most of the time I just link the one trailer for MGS4 in which Snake keeps trying to grab the director's chair... the lighthearted and comical tone of that trailer shows people what I'm talking about. He's not that serious all the time.

 

[Kruton]

You bring a very valid point, Snake does have a quirky, comical side to him. Especially with the ladies. And the wild, raw food.

 

[Nightwonder]

I for one like the idea of Snake joining Brawl because with out him to point out some fun facts like Samus taking her clothes off, Wario being able to fly by farting, and how delicious Yoshi's taste. Snake is still my favorite third party character thus far.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Snake belongs anywhere, since he can just sneak to anywhere. ^_^

 

[RegalBuster]

I'm glad he's in because he's different, though if Kojima didn't ask Sakurai to put Snake in melee he would have had no chance of getting in brawl.

 

[GreenKirby]

The only problem I have with Snake is that Konami would most likely STILL not create many games for Nintendo as much as they would for Sony.

 

[maxieman]

snake rawks in brawl, It was epic chance that he got in and we should all be thankful for the opportunity to finally have a friggin HUMAN in Brawl (all the other ones are either deformed looking or have some superhuman abilities...or magic....)

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

What kind of foolish collectivist mentality drives one to think Snake being different is reason enough to exclude him from Brawl? Even if he does not fit in with the circus that is Smash Bros, you gotta remember he doesn't even fit in his own game world.

QFT

I've said this before and I'll say it again:

3rd party inclusion adds a fundamental rethinking of how these kinds of games work.

Brawl is a great game. I would want ALL my favourite game characters in a great game, not just some.

So, today we include Snake into a Nintendo exclusive game. What tomorrow? Maybe we could see all our favourites from other systems make their way into Nintendo only games, or vice-versa (although admittedly, Mario belongs on nintendo ONLY), but regardless, it's stuff like this that makes gaming FUN.

We need to stop worrying about marketing and company pride. It's about the GAMES and the CHARACTERS, NEVER about the title/company. Snake has appeared on Nintendo systems in the past. He was **NEVER** a Sony exclusive. He is a KONAMI exclusive. There's a load of Konami games out there for all systems.

And then there's the other part:

Snake fits PERFECTLY in. How can you argue against that? Roy and Marth were pretty realistic looking in Melee, and they were awesome to play with, why not Snake? It's not like he's using guns. He's got that comical undertone just like every other character in Smash.

Moreover, this humerous undertone is ALWAYS present in the MGS games. People who argue that he seems awkward in Brawl have, I think, never played an MGS game.

Master Chief has no place. His character is far too serious and brutal to be added to the game without adding a sense of realism. Have you people SEEN Snake fight in Brawl? I can personaly think of it as a big joke (being a little cynical, I know), but if Chief was in, I'd never be able to see that goofiness in him that makes Brawl's light-hearted fun.

By the way, what made Marvel vs Capcom so fun and unique? I'd bet the fact that you had many characters from totally different universes clashing for once.

In Soccer matches should there be only U.S. teams playing? No, maybe only European?? That would take everything out of Soccer that people love.

So the whole argument is stupid. If you htink Snake has no place, you are wrong and must die, and rethink your mentality. It's just stupid. I have no idea why I posted this huge thing for such a stupid argument.

 

[Blackadder]

I didn't even know there was a "No Snake for Brawl!" thing going on. I'd never heard of it...

I guess the thing that gets me that you mention is that people think he's too realistic for Brawl. He uses guns, kills, looks human, ect.
But Kojima -- God bless -- has riddled the MGS series with tons of subtle jokes and humour and many many instances of lampshade hangings. Plus, he's a quirkly fighter in Brawl. As you said, well, that's what we need!

Snake being in Brawl made me try out the MGS series. I've now passed MGS2, and own MGS3. Planning on getting MGS1 and buying 2 as well! I can say, really... Snake fits in Brawl just fine.

 

[SolidSonic]

I didn't even know there was a "No Snake for Brawl!" thing going on. I'd never heard of it...

Yeah it wasn't a big issue, but I did see a significant number of people saying that he was fluke, someone who doesn't belong in the game. People would say ____ should have been in instead of Snake. Haven't seen any of those comments since I made this thread though, probably since the entire roster was revealed.

So the whole argument is stupid. If you htink Snake has no place, you are wrong and must die, and rethink your mentality. It's just stupid. I have no idea why I posted this huge thing for such a stupid argument.

Hehe exactly. If you ever see someone make an anti-Snake comment, on this forum or elsewhere, direct them here.

 

[Davidius]

no way dude snaek is not good for smash bros. no 1 is that ive nevr herd him which means lots of people havent which is not the same for more deserve characters like geno ridley and cristal who every1 knows. he is too relistic and serious as well. imo they shud have geno cuz i liked his game but mgs is geh.



You don't see many people who have played Metal Gear protesting his participation funnily enough.

 

[ODIN787]

Im with you solidsonic ,it does not mater if snake is different or not cause the more different characters there are the better ,he has a very unique moveset and gameplay so he will be bound to be exiting to use since there is no other character that plays like him,and about the rest of the people that say he does not fit,believe me is just a minority compared to the people that agree that he deserves to be on brawl ,is just like the problem that Punisher had on marvel for being who he is ,hes had his ups and downs but look at him now hes got no super power like the rest of the superheros on marvel but he still kicks ***, get my drift?.

Snake is in smash bros. brawl what Punisher is in Marvel , one of us ,so live with it folks and if you wont accept it just dont use him or dont even buy the game ,is that simple is just a game.

 

[PsychoMidget]

I heard Hideo Kojima is working on Metal Gear Solid Brothers... Brawl... and is letting Mario and Sonic in it

 

[Spigel]

I heard Hideo Kojima is working on Metal Gear Solid Brothers... Brawl... and is letting Mario and Sonic in it

LoL

SSBB without Snake or Sonic, isn't the same game

Geetings

 

[Banjodorf]

snake rawks in brawl, It was epic chance that he got in and we should all be thankful for the opportunity to finally have a friggin HUMAN in Brawl (all the other ones are either deformed looking or have some superhuman abilities...or magic....)

Well, I was going to say Captain Falcon is like Snake, hes human, but then... "Falcon Punch!!!" *Huge fiery falcon blasts out his fist* Thats not normal...

 

[Shack]

y do u care? the lil kids complaining will do nothign. snake is IN Brawl, nothing anyone can do about it. Who is to say he doesnt belong? There are no rules to who can be in it and who cant (besides recieving permission for characters)

 

[Hokkaido]

I think the fact that Snake doesn't fit into Brawl makes it ridiculously funny. I like to play as Snake often, and I just love doing the down throw just for laughs (even though it does great damage).

Nothing like having cartoony characters like Mario, Sonic and Yoshi getting hit by ordinance, suplexes and neck snaps.

It just makes me wonder how ridiculous it would have been if they'd put in actual small firearms or something else... we talk and joke about that thing all the time when I pick him (nobody else likes to play as Snake )

 

[A New Challenger]

I think the Codec conversations make this all work perfectly - Snake himself acknowledges that he doesn't know what the hell is going on in this world, and that works to the advantage of the character and the game in two ways:

One, it shows the humorous, Nintendo-friendly side to the character.
Two, daring to be honest and break the fourth wall to go "You know what, this is kind of odd, isn't it?" lets the players in on the joke and makes us comfortable with it. This isn't Bill Clinton in NBA Jam, this is well thought out and properly executed.

Now if say Snake came in wedged into one of the other worlds, like he was suddenly the new Hylian hero of light, or he was summoned by Palutena or something, people would have right to ***** that he's glaringly out of place.

Instead, the game establishes that in Snake's eyes, he's right where he belongs -- on the mission. Now all of these other jokers; what are they doing here?

I think that it's rather perfect.

 

[OfficeManiac070]

there should be no debate, he may look realistic, but that just gives people who want to use that type of character an option. Also, he comes from one of the biggest series in my opinion that needed representation, and also marth and roy could be considered realistic as well. There should be no debate

 

[cynar]

If people think he doesn't belong in brawl, then they've never played a metal gear game. He's a perfect fit.

 

[SolidSonic]

I think this thread can stop being bumped...

All those who didn't approve of Snake were shunned into silence awhile ago.

 

[RAAR]

One thing I have been noticing more and more on this board is, people stating how Snake "does not belong in Brawl".

....This sentiment is expressed in many different ways:
~~ "Snake does not fit in with the crowd. He does not belong in Brawl. He does not make sense in Brawl. He is to different. He is to realistic. He does not work in Brawl. He was not meant for Brawl. There is no reason for him to be in Brawl." ~~....

Every single one of those arguements is 100% true. Snake absolutly does not belong in brawl....that is exactly what makes him the best choice for brawl. His move set doesn't follow the laws of smash bros Playing him like you'd play falcon or anyone else is useless.. It's like he just jumped in outa no were and said "im read ta kick some Poke-A$$. " He's the "anti brawler" thats why hes awsom.

Also people who don't like to play "kiddy" nintendo games will feel comfortable picking snake as they are familiar with him.

 

[Matu]

Only say that Snake has a lot more preference than other Nintendo characters, like all the characters coming from Fire Emblem... Snake is in Nintendo more time than Marth, for example.

 

[DQP]

well, snake paved the way for sonic being in brawl, because if it weren't for his appearance in the E3 06 vid, then sonic would've had a lesser chance. also, the director for the mgs series literally begged for snake to be in melee, so now was his chance. so, in other words, snake deserves the spot.

EDIT: snakes got back!

 

[00Sn8k]

Snake fit's in just fine. I mean, it's my favorite video game character in my favorite video game franchise =D
Couldn't ask for anything better. He looks great and seems like a viable combatant. I'm glad he's in....

 

[L-ectrico]

He's super tall, from an M Rated game, I had never heard of him b4 Brawl, there are so many better third party characters, hes my least favorite because of this.

 

[SolidSonic]

He's super tall, from an M Rated game, I had never heard of him b4 Brawl, there are so many better third party characters, hes my least favorite because of this.

Do not call yourself a gamer.

He is tall

Point being? I'm not exactly fond of the color pink, but I still like Kirby.

From an M rated game

Seriously, what is your point? Explain why being from an M rated game is inherently a bad thing. Ratings boards should not call the shots for you, unless you are a kid.

I had never heard of him b4 Brawl

Were you born yesterday? Thats your major malfunction. Your opinion does not change the fact that the MGS series including Snake, is a significant icon of the video game industry.

There are so many better third party characters

Name one. There may be a couple that closely rival him, NO character significantly out shines him though.

 

[True Fool]

My argument for Snake being in the game; He's already in. He plays different from anybody on the roster(UNLIKE SONIC). He was a very unpredicted character... ... ...

*SPOILERS* HE'S ALREADY IN THE GAME, MAYBE IF YOU CRY MORE HE'LL BE REMOVED.