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The real reason Mewtwo's attacks whiff [Proven False]

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Kamtheman56

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Mewtwo.jpg

So what's the deal?

Alright, so a lot of people are familiar with the fact some of Mewtwo's moves appearing to whiff on opponents right? Well after looking into this the reason his moves appear to whiff on opponents is because of the Z-Axis Depth on Mewtwo since parts of his body are always in the Z-Axis mainly his tail. In this post it will mostly go over the moves that people seem to not understand why they miss along with his tilt attacks this will not cover Smash Attack, Special Moves, Nair, Dair. and throws
As shown in this picture you can see that Mewtwo's tail is in the background as this is the case with a majority of his animations.

Aerial Moves
Bair: Bair appears to miss because of the fact his tail is not in the playing field an instead in the background so for this move Mewtwo takes its tail and begins sweeping it into the playing field from the background however it doesn't go fully into the playing field which is what causes it to appear to whiff when it shouldn't. Notice in this picture how the tail and the trail left by the attack are not on the same field of play an instead the tail is behind it while this may look like an illusion this picture was taking nearly directly after the attack was input so this is an example of how his tail doesn't fully go into the playing field.

Fair
When Mewtwo uses his forward aerial move the hand an arm he uses for this move are also in the Z-Axis but instead are in the foreground so when using that move Mewtwo brings his arm and hand forward into the playing field in a large sweeping motion thus causing the illusion that the move is whiffing. Again take notice as how in this pictures the trail left by Mewtwo's Forward Aerial attack isn't a straight line but instead it's a diagonal slash showing how he brings his arm into the playing dimension and how he sweeps it in an inward motion similar to his dash attack.

Up Air
For Mewtwo's up air attack it quickly does a quick backflip using it's tail to catch any unfortunate people in it's path however for this move, Mewtwo's entire tail comes into play as Mewtwo twists it's body in order to have the tail completely come into the playing field here. other than that the Z-Axis shouldn't affect this move too much.

Tilt Attacks
Forward Tilt
Mewtwo's forward tilt involves it flinging its' tail forward with it sweeping into the playing field with very similarly to down tilt or Forward Air where the move comes in from the side and then shortly going into the foreground before returning to neutral position This move does not have Z-Axis issues.


Down Tilt
Down Tilt thankfully does not have this issue due to how it functions, as it involves Mewtwo sweeping it's tail along the ground coming from the background into the playing field before going into the foreground and then having his tail return to neutral position all in a quick succession
as shown in this picture you can see the trail of how Mewtwo brought its' tail from the background into the foreground in a quick sweeping motion thus resulting in no issues with Z-Axis

Up Tilt
With Mewtwo doing a complete 180 degree flip this move has slight Z-Axis issues due to the move only hitting on the tip and slightly below it which is why this move can reliably miss opponents and not hit them. As show here the trail indicates where the move travels while this move doesn't have too many Z-Axis issues it's certainly not reliable with all of it's issues.

GRAB
Now the one everyone would like to hear why Mewtwo's grab misses well let me explain. The reason his grab appears to miss is because Mewtwo swings his arm from the background into the playing field however it doesn't match when the purple energy that signifies where Mewtwo grabs, actually comes out before his hand reaches a point in where it can psychically grab people due to his arm and hand being in the background Z-Axis and not fully reaching the playing field when he goes to grab thus resulting in it looking like he failed to grab someone when in reality he couldn't grab them because of how his grab works and the Z-Axis Depth he has on him. However please keep in mind Mewtwo can only grab people as soon as his hand reaches the purple energy which indicates that he's able to grab someone. Note in this picture right here it shows the initial grab animation of Mewtwo
Notice how his arm is not fully in the playing field nor is the purple energy present. Now look at this where Mewtwo's arm touches the purple energy this is when he can grab people However do understand that you must time it correctly and that it is not a lingering grab.

Now with all of that finished I hope this can inform some people about the worlds strongest Pokémon.


An as always if you feel I am incorrect be sure to correct me. Yes I did say "playing field" a lot I know.
 
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Lavani

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The hitboxes on Mewtwo's fair aren't tied to his model, and are placed directly in front of him in the playing field with no Z-axis displacement. If it whiffs ever, it isn't because of Z-axis shenanigans on Mewtwo's end.

If blind spots in attacks are ever the result of the Z-axis, it can be easily confirmed/debunked by testing on a stage that compresses fighters to 2D models (such as Duck Hunt) and seeing if the blind spots are fixed there.
 

Kamtheman56

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While that may be the case with perhaps Forward air I'd at least like to clarify Z-Axis Depth does exist on Two Dimensional Stages while this does sound incredibly "No way that's impossible" it's evident with Mewtwo's hurtbox primarily his tail and how while it can be hit in some places that normally wouldn't be able to be hit it's still mostly intangible in it's tail region due to being out of the playing field/layer. However the Z-Axis is very not prominent since of course it's two dimensional and "flat".
 
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Lavani

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His tail is still partly intangible because half his tail is always intangible, dimensions have nothing to do with it. As someone who put a lot of time into Greninja, a character with real Z-axis issues on his fsmash, I completely swear by flat stages for preventing those game-costing whiffs. All those attacks that whiff because they go in front of/behind opponents get patched up in an instant when every fighter is paper-flat:




Anyway, I'm not arguing that Mewtwo doesn't have Z-axis problems (I never actually considered it before now), I just wanted to clarify a few things. I think it would help your point though to use pictures of the attacks actually missing because of the Z-axis, Mewtwo attacking the air by himself doesn't really provide a frame of reference or prove anything.
 

meleebrawler

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After some preliminary analysis I don't think the Z-axis has any real impact on Mewtwo's moves. The only moves that would be liable to be affected by this, ftilt and dtilt, aren't because the hitbox covers the whole tail, unlike DK's ftilt up there which only covers the hand.
 

pikazz

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I have never whiffed the FAir (not by my fault at least) so I dont really know why the hate is on it?

the only attack of the moves listed that I can whiff with is the BAir, when the opponent are too low under the tail, like in a SH
 

Kamtheman56

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I personally don't miss Forward Air either however I decided to go over because of the fact most people complain about it an it involves the Z-Axis Depth Mewtwo has on him.
 
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Metalex

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I think the most problematic of the moves when it comes to whiffing is Utilt (back hit), Bair and to an extent also Uair (close in the front and back of Mewtwo). The others i have never had a problem with except for sometimes with Fair against short grounded opponents.

btw, this thread reminds me of Brownys thread from a while back that talked about how some parts of Mewtwo being in the Z-axis have an effect on his hurtbox.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-misconceptions-about-mewtwos-hurtbox-end-here.416127/
 

Kamtheman56

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Yeah this particular thread does remind me of that thread as well, which in fact is where I had the idea to where Mewtwo's issues with whiffing attacks was to blame on the Z-Axis Depth applied to Mewtwo. However I did conduct the research myself on this and came to this conclusion by myself with some "inspiration" from his thread.
 

Browny

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Yeah sorry, but these aren't right.

I explained bair here
http://smashboards.com/threads/list-of-things-to-buff-mewtwo.407540/page-10#post-20323477

fair is a similar thing. The animation comes out on like, frame 4 but the attack hits on frame 6. In no way is the attack whiffing, but if it did match the trail it would be insane.

Imagine this, this should explain it well.

If Marth used fsmash and the glowing arc of the hitbox trail appeared on frame 1, but the sword swings through it on frames 2-10. Its almost like the animation is a path for the sword to follow. If you are standing in the arc on frame one and you can clearly see it hitting you, but his sword is still swinging down, that doesnt mean the attack has whiffed, it means the attack simply hasnt come out yet.

Mewtwos fair does not whiff, its just that the animation comes out extremely fast and his paw follows it a few frames later.

ftilt and dtilt have no whiffing issues.
 
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