A_Reverie
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2015
- Messages
- 175
CURRENT PUNISHING DISCUSSION: DREAMLAND
Introduction
Hello, fellow Marth mains. It's 2016, and I think it's time for us to start aggregating as much information as we can regarding Marth's mind boggling and complex punish game. All in one thread. I'll be posting some information I've gathered from the lab myself, but I'll need the help of every contributor here to make this worthwhile. Hopefully this will drum up a much needed boost of participation in the Marth boards!
If you'd like to contribute, get in the lab, analyze Marth sets, or simply do theorycrafting below. Anything confirmed to work will be either added to the main post or simply quoted with a link to your post if you prefer. I'll be posting a guide of my own to get the thread started. Anyone interested in helping format the thread can contact me through private message.
The Mission
As a long-time Marth player, I've noticed that a big difference between our character and others is how vastly different our punish game works. Every sword swing is a large sweep with many different angles and a tipper mechanic that offers a widely varied combo game. Hardly anything is "guaranteed" with Marth, in a sense that there's very few things that will work the same way nearly every time compared to things like Fox's U-Throw -> U-air.
This results in Marth players being constantly aware of all the ways they can angle their follow-ups. I want to get as much as I can down on paper as possible. In my opinion, Marth's punish game has the potential to outclass the entire cast. Yes, even Fox and Falco. This may be strange, but one could argue that it's at least a good idea to push our punish game to its limits in the pursuit of being the best.
Despite Marth's placing on the newest tier list (3rd) I can't help but feel as if Marth is underrepresented at the uppermost level of Melee. This year, we should be hoping to change that by pushing our game as far as we ever have. As we come out of 2015, the best year of Melee yet, we enter another year with tons of resources at our fingertips. Let's get to work!
Resources
Guide to Punishing Missed Techs by @xXadevs2000Xx
F-throw Tech Chasing Spacies on Reaction
Guide by Reverie
Discussion Thread
I thought of this sort of on the spot, but I feel our presence on Dreamland needs to be addressed. Dreamland is, no matter how much work we put in, our worst stage and rightfully so, but I think Marth can still do better than he has here in the past. Here are some goals I'd like to emphasize:
- The current consensus is that Marth has trouble punishing on Dreamland due to its platforms. While this may be true when compared to other stages, I think there's enough improvement to be made here to make a big difference on Marth's average performance for the stage. Let's look for ways to utilize the platforms for punish setups.
- Dreamland's size doesn't reduce Marth's ability to edgeguard, but the platform height loses Marth a reliable kill for when certain foes recover there (
, to name a few.) Currently it's standard practice to react and swat them back off stage with something like F-air, but is there something else we can come up with that we can use as a mix up or punish them harder? - Lower angles. A lot of Marth's ability to kill on Dreamland suffers from the stage being so big while a lot of Marth's good killing moves are diagonal or vertical. Finding some ways to send foes flying more sideways would be really helpful, particularly in the floaty matchups. I know this is sort of a weird one, but I do believe there are some ways to apply this. One idea that comes to mind is U-tilt sourspot sometimes sending at an awkward angle (Sakurai angle on aerial opponents can send lower than they may expect, especially if they're DIing away.)
Introduction
Hello, fellow Marth mains. It's 2016, and I think it's time for us to start aggregating as much information as we can regarding Marth's mind boggling and complex punish game. All in one thread. I'll be posting some information I've gathered from the lab myself, but I'll need the help of every contributor here to make this worthwhile. Hopefully this will drum up a much needed boost of participation in the Marth boards!
If you'd like to contribute, get in the lab, analyze Marth sets, or simply do theorycrafting below. Anything confirmed to work will be either added to the main post or simply quoted with a link to your post if you prefer. I'll be posting a guide of my own to get the thread started. Anyone interested in helping format the thread can contact me through private message.
The Mission
As a long-time Marth player, I've noticed that a big difference between our character and others is how vastly different our punish game works. Every sword swing is a large sweep with many different angles and a tipper mechanic that offers a widely varied combo game. Hardly anything is "guaranteed" with Marth, in a sense that there's very few things that will work the same way nearly every time compared to things like Fox's U-Throw -> U-air.
This results in Marth players being constantly aware of all the ways they can angle their follow-ups. I want to get as much as I can down on paper as possible. In my opinion, Marth's punish game has the potential to outclass the entire cast. Yes, even Fox and Falco. This may be strange, but one could argue that it's at least a good idea to push our punish game to its limits in the pursuit of being the best.
Despite Marth's placing on the newest tier list (3rd) I can't help but feel as if Marth is underrepresented at the uppermost level of Melee. This year, we should be hoping to change that by pushing our game as far as we ever have. As we come out of 2015, the best year of Melee yet, we enter another year with tons of resources at our fingertips. Let's get to work!
Resources
Guide to Punishing Missed Techs by @xXadevs2000Xx
F-throw Tech Chasing Spacies on Reaction
Guide by Reverie
Discussion Thread
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