The Pit Community General Guide - U-Smash Discussion

[LancerStaff]

This "empty hitbox" phenomena is actually decimal damage if I understand correctly.

 

[Saimunn93]

This "empty hitbox" phenomena is actually decimal damage if I understand correctly.

That actually makes sense I suppose, since those ticks are only a marginal 1% if they ensue. The fact that it merely inflicts decimal damage (on those pseudo-empty hits) supports my argument though.

 

[CHOMPY]

The General Pit Guide
Moveset Discussion
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-= D-Air =-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Discuss Pit's D-Air and its place in competitive play.

Things to discuss:

1) Rate the move from 1 to 5 in terms of overall usefulness.
2) Discuss any combos that utilize this move (these can be MU specific).
3) Discuss when is the appropriate time to use the move.
4) Share any tips or tricks you know regarding the move.​

 

[ChaoticRoy]

Although I might interpret it incorrectly in the sense that you're merely stating that the move combos after an F-throw (for instance), instead of that you use it that way over the by myself mentioned combos, you seemed quite unequivocal about that you'd actually use it that way (please correct me if you meant otherwise XD)

Pretty much this. I was just answering the part about "Combos that use Fair" but I also should have added that they are not optimal combos aside for D-throw -> Fair on the ledge because it sets the "Fence of Pain" in some stages or it can be used to frame trap people into Nair or Dair (And even this can be argued since B-throw also combos into Dash Attack at low percents, so it kinda is MU dependent). In any case, My bad~

 

[ReRaze]

Definite 5/5 from me. One of my favourite moves on pit. I get around 60% of my kills from it. It has very little lag time compared to other meteor smashes so pit can spam it without risk of a sd offstage not to mention how deep pit can go for the kill. Most other characters have trouble making it back if they tried for a meteor smash anywhere below stage level but not pit. It has amazing range hitting around a 190 below pit and is really good for spacing. It also does a solid 10% per hit. Dair can string into itself sweetspot or not. Non-sweetspot can also string into other aerials (Nairo recently pulled off a multiple dair string in an invitational tournament).Meteor smashing with dair can string and occasionally combo into another meteor smash or footstool because of how little lag dair has. Meteor smashing someone into the ground at high percents can be comboed into an usmash for a guaranteed kill setup. My favourite way to use dair is near the ledge. After you knock them off you can hover (because of pits multipe jumps) above or near the ledge and dair your opponent as they recover. If they air dodge you can frame trap them into another move.

 

[ShadowSlashX]

This move is useful wherever it hits, and with how much range it has I use it very frequently. The sweetspot is of course useful for meteors even though it's a rather weak one. Doing two in a row, however, is possible because of how little ending lag it has in comparison to other meteors(like Marth >_>). The sides of the hitbox will pop the opponent up at angle that allows follow ups with more Dair or any other aerial. The landing lag isn't as low as Fair, but if the side hits, then it's no problem(hitting with the sweetspot on a grounded opponent at low percentages will result in very little hitstun and an easy punish for them). I use it a lot when trying to land by doing a rising Dair just before landing. A very versatile move, fast, good range, and guaranteed 10% damage make it a 5/5. Also that topic about Pit follow ups using Dair strings /combos is great for showing off what it can do.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'll give it a 4/5. It's Pit's only aerial with any significant startup, and rightfully so. Deals 10%, has virtually no endlag whatsoever (to the point where you can rise while spamming it), meteors with a sweetspot, otherwise deals high upward KB, and even combos into itself or other aerials after a ground bounce.

However, you can't really just throw it out like his other aerials like I said, and contributes to Pit's relative inability to escape juggles. It can't combo at all from a meteor hit on a grounded opponent unless it ground bounces, which only happens at higher %s. And combos not involving ground bounces are only at the lowest %s, if at all.

Basically, you can only use the move when you're at the advantage. But it's very good when you are.

 

[CHOMPY]

The thing I like about Pits dair is that if the characters are right next to each other, Pit can use a rising dair OoS, whether they are facing the opposite of each other or not. If it hits, then you can actually follow it up with a bair to a possible dash grab. Recently, I have been testing out the dair and it can actually catch players off guard as they're falling. Dair is one of those moves where players tend to forget it has a spike, as a bonus. I admit, I forget that it can spike. The trickiest part is figuring out how to land the spike on characters. One of the coolest things I found about dair is you can perform a dthrow to x2 dair on fast fallers, like Mac, Fox, Falcon, etc. Remember how Metaknight can air camp players with Dair? Well, you can do the same thing with Pit, only it has more range and comes out slower. Try not to use it as your about to land, since it has so much ending lag.

Overall, I give this move a 5/5

 

[LancerStaff]

Oh yeah, skinny characters are easier to sweetspot if they're in an upright position. Compare a jumping dair on Marth to Bowser for example.

 

[Kibzu~]

For me Dair is a 3/5. Its a great move and all but im rating it with how often do you use it and why. It can be used for a follow up to get too Dairs or more but i prefer going for Uairs/fairs/nairs as they are abit more guaranteed. This move does have a few other applications tho, it can sometimes be used as an neutral approach. The spike is always satisfying and its probably your main of stage battle move as the non spiking it usually leads to stage spikes (Depending where you are ofc you get the point <.>). Lastly you have this option http://youtu.be/sbZgDbkUrrE?t=10m32s which is great for all platform stages eg smashville and BF. Nairo does like his Pit Dairs for follow ups but thats preference there

 

[Saimunn93]

If combos are composed of strings, then 's D-air is woven through virtually any thinkable combo like a scarlet thread.

This move does it all: space, kill, punish, troll, damage, exert pressure and whatnot. It is for this reason that this exceptionally resourceful and versatile move easily redeems a glorious 5 out of 5 rating. I will elaborate why this is one of 's most supreme moves below:

Pros (10%, range, spacing, out of shield, punishing, pressuring, combos, KO, meteor smash)

• First and foremost, this is easily the aerial move that will consolidate the damage dealt much more reliably than the other aerial moves. The final blows of the multi-hitbox aerials (N-/F-/U-air) strike for a 4%, and are complemented by 0,5-1,5% singular hits. To land all the hits consecutively, in addition to the vigorous final blow is not a sinecure by itself, and even if you were to land them, the damage of any one of these aerial moves accumulated would not parallel the 10% hit of D-air. This move, is powerful.
  
• The abovementioned 10% is inflicted when it strikes the opponent with the crescent-shaped blade swipe on either side of the move. The magnitude of this swipe is impeccable, and it seems to comprise a 180 degree crescent beneath pit, where the perpendicular line accords with the horizontal axis. It's similar to a flawlessly executed short hop -> N-air while fast-falling in neutral stance (in terms of range); covering either side of the character while airborne.
• The fact that any successful hit inflicts 10% by definition, and that it covers a vast area with its hitbox, classifies it as a go-to spacing tool. I use this move countlessly, just because it allows me to hover over Omega-stages safely, with any successful hit immediately causing plenty of damage. If used optimally, you can short hop -> D-Air (while rising) without incurring any additional lag upon landing afterwards. Fast falling in conjunction with the use of this move should be abstained from, in general.
  
• Along with this quality, it's a good out of shield option, and perhaps the best along with N-air. The fact that the initial frames aren't extremely rigorous (while the latter frames are) makes it a good move to use it in this way. Especially since..
• People tend to roll a lot (FOR GLORY ROLLZ BRAHZ) at this stage of this meta game development and in a general tendency. This move is incredibly useful in this sense, because hovering over the stage while using D-air perpetually or popping one out of shield will almost always punish a roll, once again because the range of this move is simply outstanding. If the move gets blocked or averted otherwise, it's not that punishable itself. If used in accordance with the short hop prescription (abovementioned), then it should be safe under usual circumstances.
• The currently adduced arguments collectively render this move to be an excellent pressuring tool. It snipes rollers, and it can securely poke the opponent for some serious damage. This move, in my opinion, reverberates with 's F-air in that sense; you can safely use it while retreating, and use it offensively as well, as long as you maintain sufficient distance between you and the adversary. If done so, it's an invaluable asset to the pressuring / spacing game.
• So what if it does strike successfully? Well, land another one . No but really, this move combos into itself a lower percentages.. Heavies dread the 0-10% D-throw into double D-air, isn't that right? The launch trajectory has the ability to allocate the opponent in sometimes very unfavourable positions characteristically, and allows for various follow-ups. As a combo move, this D-air will find its place in countless amalgamations. Also, if you meteor smash the opponent on the stage, it will occasionally allow for some more D-air thrashing if the opponent bounces (usually at higher percentages). Another follow-up in this instance would be D-smash or another powerful move that consumes time to execute, because the bounce royally allows such moves to be performed. Be wary however of meteor smashing on the stage at lower percentages, because this might not induce the bouncing effect and might incur a punish.
  
• And yes, it kills. And not just with the meteor smash, but also with its ordinary launch trajectory. I will have to examine this move more thoroughly to acquire more data on the ordinary knockback kills on various characters, but in my experience I feel like it harnesses a potent fatal strike.
• Lastly, and indubitably not the least worthy of mentioning, the integrated meteor smash effect. If the opponent is struck at the 90 degree angle (perpendicularly below ), the opponent will be launched downwards drastically. And yeah, this is practically a spike at higher percentages, and allows for footstool follow-up shenanigans for optimal trollage.

Cons (lag):

• So the only downside of this move is the ending frame lag, especially when landing with it. Therefore, I would recommend to avoid using it when anticipating a collision with the stage or platform.

 

[CHOMPY]

By the way, here are a list of characters that you can spike them with Dair during their Up + B animation.

Horiztontal Recovery

DK
Bowser
Luigi (Side B)
Fox (Side B)
Falco (Side B)

Vertical

Diddy
Olimar/Alph
Wii Fit Trainer
Pit
Dark Pit
ROB (He can't airdodge during his Up B)
Duck Hunt Dog
Pac-Man
Bowser Jr.
Rosalina + Luma
Villager

Impossible to spike
Ike
Marth
Lucina

 

[LancerStaff]

You sure? Could of sworn I spiked Villager out of his Uspecial a few times.

Hm, I'll ask the Villager boards quick.

 

[Nu~]

Pac-Man bounces back up on his trampoline when he gets spiked. Just something to note.

 

[ReRaze]

Pac-Man bounces back up on his trampoline when he gets spiked. Just something to note.

Instead of spiking Pac-Man you can do this.

~Absolute disrespect

 

[Nu~]

Not if I use my side B. Try to gimp me, and get a face full of retro super armor Pac-Man

 

[Saimunn93]

Updated previous post [BOUNCE] ;D

 

[CHOMPY]

@ ReRaze : Poor Pac-Man... Just hope that he doesn't use up any of his jumps before performing his Up B.

 

[Kibzu~]

Chomps, wanna play a set soon? <.> i want some more pit dittos with people even tho nairos not enough lolol

 

[CHOMPY]

@ Kibzu~ : I'm down for it! How about we play at 7 pm CST. My Wii U ID is Chompy621.

Onto the topic. I also have found another use for dair. If your right next to someone, you can perform a SHDair out of shield as a possible mindgame cross up . Bwa ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

 

[Kibzu~]

@ Kibzu~ : I'm down for it! How about we play at 7 pm CST. My Wii U ID is Chompy621.

Onto the topic. I also have found another use for dair. If your right next to someone, you can perform a SHDair out of shield as a possible mindgame cross up . Bwa ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

Check ur inbox in a sec, i will Link u my skype as that would be easier. UK Time zone = sleep ( school tommoz <.> ) if your skype is public if not i will catch u on here one day x3

 

[CHOMPY]

The General Pit Guide

Moveset Discussion
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-= B-Air =-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Discuss Pit's B-Air and its place in competitive play.

Things to discuss:

1) Rate the move from 1 to 5 in terms of overall usefulness.
2) Discuss any combos that utilize this move (these can be MU specific).
3) Discuss when is the appropriate time to use the move.
4) Share any tips or tricks you know regarding the move.​

 

[Saimunn93]

Well well well.. Is that not one impetuous choice; contemplating B-air over the far more superior U-air / N-air huh?! How dare you!! But nevertheless, I'll shed my light over this (trivial) move below.

I award B-air with a 2/5 because of the following:

Pros (damage, KO):

• If I'm not mistaken, this move can deal the highest amount of damage while airborne (12-13% or so), which makes a hit worth the while.
• Can KO off-stage at a fairly early percentage, which is naturally a nice asset to 's finishing game. Also allows for a run-off-the-stage-immediate-B-air-stage-spike-gimp, which is, frankly, a positive element.

Cons (lag, tight hitbox, short hitbox duration, no lingering hitbox anymore, inferior aerial):

• So.. Our beloved Brawl-B-air was mutated abominably into this B-air kind of move.. It has actually got initiation frames now (contrarily to the Brawl-B-air), which makes it a fairly tricky move to land. Also incurs additional lag upon landing if you use it nigh on above the floor.
• The hitbox cannot really emulate the one of Brawl either; it has a sheerly horizontal hitbox that extends from the base of the blades outwards to the very tip. Brawl-B-air comprised a much vaster area vertically, while this move requires meticulous accuracy to strike with successfully.
• The hitbox is concise, meaning that it's only out while you eject the blades (like the characteristic pulsing sting of a wasp's barb) which also means that..
• There is no lingering hitbox like there was on the Brawl-B-air. This additional feature of the move back in the days made it a viable poking move off-stage, should you have missed the initial hitbox to KO. Now, it might incur a punish if you fail to land it initially.
• And lastly, every other aerial has serves the intent of B-air in a much more superior way; F-air / N-air / D-air / U-air space better, F-air kills / gimps, U-air kills, D-air deals approximately as much damage while being safer, D-air meteor smashes, D-air / F-air can stage spike, etc.

 

[ShadowSlashX]

I'll give it a 3/5... I like all of Pit's aerials, but unfortunately this is probably his worst. I loved his Brawl Bair with how it stayed out and the sweetspot/sourspot each had their uses, but this Bair is just completely different, and not necessarily in a good way.

Pros:

-Quick single hit for 8/12%
-Strongest horizontal knockback of the aerials.
-Can be auto cancelled from a SHFF if the FF is delayed slightly(until he pulls back his arms).
-Good poke and good for spacing.
-Probably the best move for stage spikes due to the relative ease of doing them by just running off and using Bair.
-Great to use immediately after stealing the ledge from someone for a cool KO.
-It'll kill the earliest off stage which is needed for Pit/Dark Pit.

Cons:

-The reason why I give it a lower score than all the other aerials is because I feel it's outclassed in mostly every way(besides raw kill power) as mentioned in the above post.
-The startup throws me off occasionally, and just seems to make it harder to hit with.
-Active frames are very small on a hitbox which is the smallest of all the aerials which means it requires much more timing and skill to use effectively(not necessarily bad, but it's not really good either).
-The sourspot has an awkward launch angle and I really haven't found any uses for it...

Neutral:

-It's similar to Fair in the way it makes Pit move by making the hitbox more horizontal and it sorta lunges out then comes back.

Uses: I started out this game with Brawl habits, which included using the Bair for many things, and using RAR for a KO, so I did that with this Bair. It may not be nearly as strong as it was, but it's still good for early KOs offstage. Onstage, I occasionally do RAR Bair > Ftilt/Dtilt which works as a good mixup at lower percentages. If auto cancelled it can make someone drop their shield and then get hit by the tilt when it hits shield. Good for a punish on someone that tries to punish your landing(I've gotten too many KOs with this). It can be used right before landing, but only if you're sure it will connect, as it can be punished easily if it doesn't. And lastly, it is my favorite move for styling along with Dair meteor smash. I always yell out "Back Slash!" When I get the KO(mostly a habit from Brawl that carried over).

 

[Roll-Spamming-Peasant]

Chomps, wanna play a set soon? <.> i want some more pit dittos with people even tho nairos not enough lolol

Is there any reason Nairo prefers Dark Pit over Pit? At least I've only seen him use Pit once. Thought about making a thread asking this question, but since you've actually talked to him, maybe you know.

 

[ReRaze]

Is there any reason Nairo prefers Dark Pit over Pit? At least I've only seen him use Pit once. Thought about making a thread asking this question, but since you've actually talked to him, maybe you know.

One of the commentators said something about this, it goes like this; one of Nairo's friend, rival, whatever (Nakat, Keitaro, idk) disses Dark Pit or something cuz he's a clone or some other reason. Nairo picks Dark Pit up to annoy him but ends up sticking with him. Also another commentator said that once, Nairo was just losing to Nakat with all his other characters so he decided to try Dark Pit, and he completely brought it back so he decided to main him

 

[Kibzu~]

Correction : Nairo plays dark pit because he enjoys his character. playstyle and personality wise. But he plays D.p over pit as he prefers the uperdash arm although he can play both fine.

 

[Roll-Spamming-Peasant]

Correction : Nairo plays dark pit because he enjoys his character. playstyle and personality wise. But he plays D.p over pit as he prefers the uperdash arm although he can play both fine.

Neat, thank you! I was wkndering myself because i've been trial running them both of FG and i seem to play better with DP...even though they shouldn't have any real frame difference to make them actually FEEL different...am i being too redundant?

 

[Chez G.]

Yes, Pit's B-air had been slightly nerfed from Brawl. It seems to have greater knockback to compensate for it, but it's just not the same being unable to gimp opponents. At least there's F-air and D-air.

 

[Zethoro]

5/5. I don't play Pit much, but when I face Pit this move is one of the things I have to keep an eye out for the most. Rising Dairs are really safe and definitely sting, and it's also one of the fastest Meteor Smashes in the game. Definitely one of Pit's best moves.

 

[CHOMPY]

The General Pit Guide

Moveset Discussion
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-= U-Smash =-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Discuss Pit's U-Smash and its place in competitive play.

Things to discuss:

1) Rate the move from 1 to 5 in terms of overall usefulness.
2) Discuss any combos that utilize this move (these can be MU specific).
3) Discuss when is the appropriate time to use the move.
4) Share any tips or tricks you know regarding the move.​

 

[Sora66]

Im going to give this move a 4. The move kills around 120-130 which is good, but sometimes the move whiffs and can get punished for that. I normally use this move when doing dthrow combos like dthrow to umash. Since Fsmash is your main kill move, opponents wont be seeing this move coming. I also like using this move when the opponent is right on top of me because it gives them a nice surprise xD

 

[lob]

2 or 3 probably
this move is really whiffable and only really lands on opponents directly above you, but it pit's lowest % kill move
you can get similar results by sweetspotting ftilt or landing the second hit on fsmash, so pit has better options than usmash imo. that said if youre not on fd this move will probably get you a lot of kills if you manage to stay underneath people.

 

[ReRaze]

I'd give it 3, the horizontal reach isnt that good, in fact it whiffs to the sides almost every time especially at the back. It's a decent kill move and the vertical reach is really good, because pit jumps while using this attack (which also means it has lag when he has to land :/ ). An interesting thing to note is that when pit is jumping while using this move it can cause some of the opponents moves to whiff for example greninja's down and forward smash will both fail to hit pit while he is using the Up smash

 

[Strider_123]

"this move is really whiffable and only really lands on opponents directly above you"
couldnt have said it any better. but that being said i give it a 3.5 because when it does hit, it kills. at least for me.

 

[ShadowSlashX]

4/5 for me. The vertical KO potential is there, it lasts for a decent amount of time with the active hitbox, but at the same time is very fast. The popping into the air makes a lot of moves whiff from the opponent which has saved me more than a couple times. It's good for mind games occasionally where I use an empty jump to bait airdodges and go for USmash when they are close to landing. Also can combo after a Dair meteor smashes and causes a bounce where USmash can connect(and if they popped up enough to get the hit, it usually KOs). A JC/Running USmash is good to use To catch landings or to follow a DThrow. Hitting people on ledges is also nice. The only issues I have with it is the horizontal range, which is deceptive sometimes, and the endlag.

 

[ReRaze]

By the way, here are a list of characters that you can spike them with Dair during their Up + B animation.

Horiztontal Recovery

DK
Bowser
Luigi (Side B)
Fox (Side B)
Falco (Side B)

Vertical

Diddy
Olimar/Alph
Wii Fit Trainer
Pit
Dark Pit
ROB (He can't airdodge during his Up B)
Duck Hunt Dog
Pac-Man
Bowser Jr.
Rosalina + Luma
Villager

Impossible to spike
Ike
Marth
Lucina

I wouldn't say impossible for marth and Lucina, just very difficult. if you have god Palutena-like reaction time, you can trade blows with them and hopefully spike. You can see it here at 2:14 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n9_FDimb2hk

 

[busken]

First and Foremost, I would like to give a big thanks to @ CHOMPY for making this thread as a way to increase the knowledge and communication of Pit's arsenal in the community.

Pit's arsenal is the reason why I picked him up. He fits my play style very well and has all the tools to do it efficiently. Up Smash is one of those tools.

I rate Pit's Up Smash a 4 out of 5. It can combo from down throw at early percents and can effectively catch landings via J.C.. Combine this with the extensive range, and the ability to punish air dodges, you can argue it's the best anti-air in the game. In my opinion, the most appropriate time to use this move is to catch landings, as jab, forward tilt, and forward smash are his best grounded spacing options. Cons of this move is that it can't be spaced since the active hitbox is above you, as a result, if you whiff it you can easily get punished. Also, it is pretty lacking in the damage department so you don't want to spam this move, as a miss can get you punished, and using it too much can make it even weaker. I think Jump Canceling is what makes this move so viable so you should definitely abuse that technique shown in @ Conda aka COBBS tricks and tips guide.

 

[Conda]

. I think Jump Canceling is what makes this move so viable so you should definitely abuse that technique shown in @ Conda aka COBBS tricks and tips guide.

Thanks for the mention. Link is here for those who want to know what he's referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS0fvvI1RBs