The Official Lucas Thread (Special Moves Included) *Mother 3 Spoilers*

[BZZL]

My take on Lucas' Bair:

It looks to me that Lucas actually does a backflip kick (think mario/luigi/falcon/etc's Uair). The screenshots seem to show the very end of his rotation. It would be very interesting, as that would make the most powerful part of the kick is when he brings the foot down at the end. Kind of like Ness' Dair except it could hit on all sides as it "charges" up?

On the other hand, a horizontal meteor smash would be crazy o.O

edit:
I'm kind of sad to see PK Fire's loss of a diagonal path. I actually found using a full-jump pk fire could catch some reckless opponents. Maybe if Ness returns this will be like Mario's fireballs versus Luigi's, where Ness'sgo diagonal and Lucas's fly straight?

 

[demoncaterpie]

Ya, I've played it, and I'm like 3/4ths the way through it. I still like EarthBound more (the only SNES game I like more is ALTTP, and that game is a God send game). Still, Super Mario RPG, Final Fantasy IV, V, and VI, and Chrono Trigger are all also legendary RPGs on the SNES. I highly recommend ALL OF THEM to ANYON who hasn't played them, definitely.



Famitsu; ya, the Japanese get more exclusive pics in their most popular gaming magazine. More proof that Sakurai is baised towards his own country, and doesn't give a fat rats' a** about the rest of the world. Ya, that was a refrence to the fact Australia will be lucky to get Brawl in 2009, and Europe by this time next year. Biased b***ards, give us a Western-only character, or something, to even out the playing field. In fact, give us three. Make one of them Geno while you're at it Sakurai....I'm WAITING!

Um, the main character of Geist for Brawl?

Doesn't exactly have a nice ring to it

 

[Voyager]

I also still think that the forward "smash/tilt" shown on the pictochat stage is a dash attack. If that's Lucas fsmash...it looks pretty boring compared to Ness' signature smash. Where's the weapon swing? I know Lucas has some blunt objects in his arsenal. I doubt it'd be a tilt cause of the dust it kicks up.

Maybe his physical attacks are so different from Ness' because Ness is coming back...

Not likely, but t would be nice.

And its pretty abvious how the bair works. You can see the path of it in the hexagons. Its a ba ckwards flip, thus in the end of the animation, its a meteor.

 

[T-major]

I'm worried now... the lack of PK LOVE in Lucas' normal specials, makes me think it might be a final smash...

I WANT DRAGO!!!! D:<

 

[SK8orDIE]

Show me some PK Love!

 

[prettymanfairy]

I'm worried now... the lack of PK LOVE in Lucas' normal specials, makes me think it might be a final smash...

I WANT DRAGO!!!! D:<

Or it could be absent all together. PK Rockin never made an appearance in 64 or Melee.

 

[MegatronPwnsYou]

Or it could be absent all together. PK Rockin never made an appearance in 64 or Melee.

Thats probably because there were no final smashes in those games.

 

[SK8orDIE]

what if Lucas's unnamed standing move, currently being called a taunt, was in fact a taunt that also healed him? that would be awesome. something along the lines of Soul Calibur/Tekken's Yoshimitsu, where healing also puts you in a prone position.

There's a couple ways this could work. One possibility would be small percentage healing per taunt. I could also see a button-mashing or "charged" approach where healing occurs in a burst after holding or maintaining the taunt pose for a certain amount of time.

Just a thought.

 

[MegatronPwnsYou]

what if Lucas's unnamed standing move, currently being called a taunt, was in fact a taunt that also healed him? that would be awesome.

Nice idea, I totally agree.

 

[T-major]

Thats probably because there were no final smashes in those games.

yeah... if PK LOVE is his Final smash, Drago had BETTER be an AT... D:<

what if Lucas's unnamed standing move, currently being called a taunt, was in fact a taunt that also healed him? that would be awesome.

would be cool, but only if it's 1% of damage recovery. would be cheap otherwise...

 

[MegatronPwnsYou]

yeah... if PK LOVE is his Final smash, Drago had BETTER be an AT... D:<
.

Or, Mecha-Drago, and the opponents that get hit become Hinawa.

 

[T-major]

Or, Mecha-Drago, and the opponents that get hit become Hinawa.

NAH! D:< me wants mah lovable, cuddly, normal Drago! Mecha-Drago would be a cool boos though.

 

[Bigbattle22]

Well I think Lucas's FS should be PK Starfall, I seen what it can do and it would make a great FS move.

 

[T-major]

Well I think Lucas's FS should be PK Starfall, I seen what it can do and it would make a great FS move.

does he even learn that move in MOTHER3?

 

[Bigbattle22]

No (I think) but ness didn't know PK Fire or PK Thunder before Smash so maybe it's the same with Lucas.

 

[T-major]

No (I think) but ness didn't know PK Fire or PK Thunder before Smash so maybe it's the same with Lucas.

no thanks. I'd much rather Lucas' Final Smash be something that he actually does in MOTHER3; like Calling Drago, or PK LOVE omega.

 

[vesperview]

Well I think Lucas's FS should be PK Starfall, I seen what it can do and it would make a great FS move.

You mean PK Starstorm right? and I think it's the worst idea for a Lucas's Final Smash I've read.

 

[Bigbattle22]

Yes Starstorm, and it's JMO, it may be PK LOVE we will wait and see.

 

[Coen]

Vesperview!

/////////ATTENTION/////////////

VESPERVIEW:

For some reason, I can not send you a PM. I have a question for you: Could you please update the first post with the general Lucas information (such as the info in the General Discussion thread about him)? I need you to do this because I want to sticky this one, but have as little stickies as possible. And since grim_lizard (creator of the General Lucas Disc.) is banned and doesn't update anymore, I hereby ask you to do that so I can sticky this thread and unsticky the other one.

/////////ATTENTION/////////////

 

[Mr. Sunny Patch]

Lucas looks awesome, epesially his new F-Smash.

 

[vesperview]

/////////ATTENTION/////////////

VESPERVIEW:

For some reason, I can not send you a PM. I have a question for you: Could you please update the first post with the general Lucas information (such as the info in the General Discussion thread about him)? I need you to do this because I want to sticky this one, but have as little stickies as possible. And since grim_lizard (creator of the General Lucas Disc.) is banned and doesn't update anymore, I hereby ask you to do that so I can sticky this thread and unsticky the other one.

/////////ATTENTION/////////////

Oh OK, give me a little time to update it, sorry I have my pm's off But I'll do my own thing, I never liked the info in the initial Lucas thread.

Edit: I just finished updating the thread, I still have to add some stuff but the info on it is pretty thorough as it is, BTW, I made a new separate thread for the Final Smash suggestions I had here, can I call it official?

 

[Coen]

Oh OK, give me a little time to update it, sorry I have my pm's off But I'll do my own thing, I never liked the info in the initial Lucas thread.

Edit: I just finished updating the thread, I still have to add some stuff but the info on it is pretty thorough as it is, BTW, I made a new separate thread for the Final Smash suggestions I had here, can I call it official?

Hehe, I didn't mean to hurry you ^^ I've seen the first post and it looks awesome. I'll sticky this one now. Good job. And you can call it official.

 

[Noshiee]

also, the psychic powered kick shown in the Lucas's special moves update is his up tilt, strong attacks are the official name for the tilts, just wanted to point that out, couse it says up smash in the first page.

 

[-Jumpman-]

His smashes really look like m2's. Let's hope he isn't the mewtwo of brawl.

 

[vesperview]

His smashes really look like m2's. Let's hope he isn't the mewtwo of brawl.

He is the Ness of Brawl, there's absolutely no similarities to Mewtwo.

 

[SK8orDIE]

He is the Ness of Brawl, there's absolutely no similarities to Mewtwo.

No similarities? What are you talking about? I strongly disagree. I know he's basically a modified Ness, but that doesn't mean a Mewtwo comparison can't be made. Here's my two-second list:

Ness/Lucas vs. Mewtwo similarities:
down-Smash: produces a single low hitbox (Lucas & Mewtwo)
multi-hit aerial move (Ness: fair, Mewtwo: nair)
Meteor Smash (all three characters have one)
double-jump cancel
general floatiness
psychic-based attacks
powerful throws


Basically, you're wrong. What's more, while Jumpman's statement was a bit cryptic, I think the part about Lucas being "the Mewtwo of Brawl" was more about his tier placement and being difficult to use than about his specific moveset.

 

[Noshiee]

No similarities? What are you talking about? I strongly disagree. I know he's basically a modified Ness, but that doesn't mean a Mewtwo comparison can't be made. Here's my two-second list:

Ness/Lucas vs. Mewtwo similarities:
down-Smash: productes a single low hitbox (Lucas & Mewtwo)
multi-hit aerial move (Ness: fair, Mewtwo: nair)
Meteor Smash (all three characters have one)
double-jump cancel
general floatiness
psychic-based attacks
powerful throws


Basically, you're wrong. What's more, while Jumpman's statement was a bit cryptic, I think the part about Lucas being "the Mewtwo of Brawl" was more about his tier placement and being difficult to use than about his specific moveset.

well, not only them have meteor smash, so that really isnt a strong similarity, also, Lucas meteor smash is his Bair, something that only he is able to do (as long as we know), we dont know if Lucas floatiness is similar to Ness's, or if his mid-air jump is like Ness's or Mewtwo's, and neither we know if he has powerful throws.

I dont think we can expect how Lucas will be until he is shown in a video (doing something >_>) or when the game is release. That he looks like Ness or that he has his same specials doesnt mean he will be like that, and neither we know that he might be like Mewtwo, so, we will have to wait.

 

[vesperview]

Basically, you're wrong. What's more, while Jumpman's statement was a bit cryptic, I think the part about Lucas being "the Mewtwo of Brawl" was more about his tier placement and being difficult to use than about his specific moveset.

No, you're wrong, if the word psychic wasn't related to the Mother games's characters and abilities, this Mewtwo comparison wouldn't exist, so now Lucas is a Luigified Mewtwo? Hahaha! Good one! Please! He is absolutely NOTHING like Mewtwo.

 

[SK8orDIE]

@Noshiee: Read the thread. Vesperview claims that there are no similarities between Lucas and Mewtwo. He then says that Lucas will be the Ness of Brawl (or "Lucas will be similar to Ness"). But I just identified similarities between Lucas & Mewtwo and Ness & Mewtwo, so even if he's not sold by a direct Lucas v Mewtwo comparison, he still must concede that if Ness & Mewtwo are sufficiently similar then Lucas & Mewtwo could be similar.

or for the math folks:

If M->N and N->L, then M->L.

similarity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Similarity

I can understand you're not wanting to hear too much speculation. My problem is when someone makes a speculation and then excludes other speculations as if one was more valid than another.

@Vesperview: Great comeback! I like how you don't even acknowledge the information I used to support my position.

 

[vesperview]

It's still not similar, please, stop making ******** comparisons.

 

[SK8orDIE]

It's still not similar, please, stop making ******** comparisons.

hey, you said Lucas and Mewtwo have zero similarities. They have similar down-smashes and they both use psychic powers. 2 > 0.

FAIL

 

[vesperview]

hey, you said Lucas and Mewtwo have zero similarities. They have similar down-smashes and they both use psychic powers. 2 > 0.

FAIL

Oh yeah cause Mewtwo has a mentally powered flip kick and a back air meteor smash, please, if you're here to compare characters with absolutely no similarities but a simple move that you haven't even seen in motion, please, GTFO!

 

[SK8orDIE]

Oh yeah cause Mewtwo has a mentally powered flip kick and a back air meteor smash, please, if you're here to compare characters with absolutely no similarities but a simple move that you haven't even seen in motion, please, GTFO!

Sorry, son. I made my case, and I invite our fellow smashers to decide for themselves. I'm alarmed that you would try to stomp out the creativity of perspectives such as mine and such as Jumpman's. You don't win an argument by telling people they are wrong; You win one by giving clear supporting information and by addressing your opponent's arguments. I told you that you were wrong as a response to what you told Jumpman. Sucks, doesn't it? I'm equally alarmed that you still have not identified the logical fallacy of your own words. For insight, I ask you to ponder this mathematical expression:

2 > 0

If you cannot grasp what I have tried to explain, I will gladly restructure my original argument for clarity but I'd like to hear from the community first.

 

[vesperview]

Yeah being psychic is SO a similarity, I mean Link and Ike are pretty much the same just because they wield swords[/sarcasm] and again, stop drawing conclusions from moves you haven't seen in motion, ok? Thanks!

 

[SK8orDIE]

Yeah being psychic is SO a similarity, I mean Link and Ike are pretty much the same just because they wield swords[/sarcasm] and again, stop drawing conclusions from moves you haven't seen in motion, ok? Thanks!

I didn't say they were EXACTLY the same and that's not what this is about. I corrected you when you said the characters in question had ZERO similarities. Go back and read your words. You made a statement that is impossible to defend. Man up and admit it.

Oh, and two characters having swords is a similarity. It is not a strong similarity or a unique similarity, but it is a trait that is common to only a handful of characters. This is not a topic for debate. The only thing you can argue is the degree of similarity that makes such a comparison relevant. That's an opinion you may have and I have no problem with that, but you've never actually said that. Your statements have been much less accurate and much more hostile towards discussion.

If you want to debate Lucas's down-smash, that's an easy one. Since the move isn't fully documented yet, all speculations are valid because none can be disproven. In other words, you cannot dismiss my speculation about how the move works. What's more, I can call it's resemblance to Mewtwo's down-smash "reasonable" based on the data we do have. We have an image of Lucas barraging the ground that resembles at least two-thirds of Mewtwo's down-smash animation and we have descriptive text that says "He unleashes a PK barrage on the ground with his down smash." We assume that like his other moves, this description is an adequate summary and adequate representation of the move by the Dojo staff. The two moves have comparable hitbox locations and both characters point downward at their hitboxes. Other members of smashboards have drawn the same conclusion I have about Lucas's down-smash and that alone makes it a valid one.

You yourself make some assumptions of your own that several other members have identified as questionable. You list Lucas's "mentally-powered flip kick" as an up-smash, when the Dojo describes the move as a "strong up-attack ". Common nomenclature in the Dojo and elsewhere is to refer to tilt-attacks as "strong attacks" which casts doubt on your assumption. While smash attacks are indeed strong attacks, his down-smash is explicitly described as a down-smash, which tells me that if "mentally-powered flip kick" was a smash attack, the Dojo would've explicitly called it one. I say all that to say this: if you can make assumptions, I can too and that my assumptions have been better crafted.

 

[Noshiee]

actually, the "mentally-powered flip kick" is lucas up tilt, check the dojo, the Smash Attack Update lists tilts as strong attacks, so, calling the kick his up strong attacks means is actually his up tilt.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/basic/basic04.html

vesper, you may wanna change that in the first page, and actually point out what I just said, and probably add the link, 'couse almost everybody thinks that it is his up-smash

 

[SK8orDIE]

actually, the "mentally-powered flip kick" is lucas up tilt, check the dojo, the Smash Attack Update lists tilts as strong attacks, so, calling the kick his up strong attacks means is actually his up tilt.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/basic/basic04.html

That is the nail in the coffin right there. Good job. I couldn't remember where I saw it on the Dojo, so I just referred to strong attacks being tilt attacks as "common nomenclature." Thanks for the link and for the added clarity.

 

[vesperview]

I didn't say they were EXACTLY the same and that's not what this is about. I corrected you when you said the characters in question had ZERO similarities. Go back and read your words. You made a statement that is impossible to defend. Man up and admit it.

Oh, and two characters having swords is a similarity. It is not a strong similarity or a unique similarity, but it is a trait that is common to only a handful of characters. This is not a topic for debate. The only thing you can argue is the degree of similarity that makes such a comparison relevant. That's an opinion you may have and I have no problem with that, but you've never actually said that. Your statements have been much less accurate and much more hostile towards discussion.

If you want to debate Lucas's down-smash, that's an easy one. Since the move isn't fully documented yet, all speculations are valid because none can be disproven. In other words, you cannot dismiss my speculation about how the move works. What's more, I can call it's resemblance to Mewtwo's down-smash "reasonable" based on the data we do have. We have an image of Lucas barraging the ground that resembles at least two-thirds of Mewtwo's down-smash animation and we have descriptive text that says "He unleashes a PK barrage on the ground with his down smash." We assume that like his other moves, this description is an adequate summary and adequate representation of the move by the Dojo staff. The two moves have comparable hitbox locations and both characters point downward at their hitboxes. Other members of smashboards have drawn the same conclusion I have about Lucas's down-smash and that alone makes it a valid one.

You yourself make some assumptions of your own that several other members have identified as questionable. You list Lucas's "mentally-powered flip kick" as an up-smash, when the Dojo describes the move as a "strong up-attack ". Common nomenclature in the Dojo and elsewhere is to refer to tilt-attacks as "strong attacks" which casts doubt on your assumption. While smash attacks are indeed strong attacks, his down-smash is explicitly described as a down-smash, which tells me that if "mentally-powered flip kick" was a smash attack, the Dojo would've explicitly called it one. I say all that to say this: if you can make assumptions, I can too and that my assumptions have been better crafted.

TL;DR

actually, the "mentally-powered flip kick" is lucas up tilt, check the dojo, the Smash Attack Update lists tilts as strong attacks, so, calling the kick his up strong attacks means is actually his up tilt.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/basic/basic04.html

vesper, you may wanna change that in the first page, and actually point out what I just said, and probably add the link, 'couse almost everybody thinks that it is his up-smash

I still think it's a smash attack, because the following attack shown was a Smash attack, again, we'll have to wait and see the moves in motion to clarify any questions.

 

[Noshiee]

TL;DR STFU!



I still think it's a smash attack, because the following attack shown was a Smash attack, again, we'll have to wait and see the moves in motion to clarify any questions.

that the following screenshot shown is a smash attack doesnt mean anything, then, if the bair screenshot didnt specify it was his bair, then would you had though that it was a smash attack?
Sakurai calls tilts "strong attacks", as seen in the update, what else do you need?

 

[vesperview]

Fine, fixed, happy?

I still don't understand why we can't just wait to see Lucas in action before drawing conclusions about his moves.