• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Official Kirby Match-up Discussion Thread - Fox & Falco added Feb 11th

t!MmY

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
5,146
Location
Oregon
NNID
t1mmy_smash
I realized that I've probably answered every single match-up for Kirby in various posts, PMs, and emails. So I'm going to be compiling all those words of wisdom into one thread - this one - and make it available for everyone to find quickly and easily. (Edit: I'm also quoting other players as I come across their info, I'm sure they don't mind).

The ordering of the characters will be alphabetical.
(This guide is currently in the works, please be patient while it is finished)

After I dig up all the info and put it in here I'll rewrite it to make it more guide-ish.


Bowser
A match-up of epic proportions, such as this, is best read about here:
Kirby vs. Bowser
Videos to Watch
Hylian vs Kal
Lucien vs Warp $tar Warrior
Epic Matches still to come?


Doctor Mario
If you don't DI his D-throw perfectly everytime, he can easily get F-airs on you at practically any percent (which means grab=dead). And even with proper DI, he can choose not to go for F-airs and get free B-airs, D-airs, or U-airs at any percent; taking damage with Kirby is never good since he's so light. Just try to outspace him with your attacks and be a better player overall.

Good attacks to spam against Doc are B-air, F-tilt, D-tilt, and... that's about all Kirby has against Doc, and they're far from good at starting combos or outprioritizing him to begin with. If you can get a U-tilt on Doc, that's always great because he seems to dislike getting juggled into B-air, especially multiple B-airs, but watch his hitstun. If you're good at Final Cutter, you can cut through a pill he throws at you and then come down and send a projectile back all in one attack - don't do this too often though because of the lag with Final Cutter afterward.

Grabs are almost useless against Doc, so just go for a quick B-throw to get him closer to the stage, or off of it. If you D-throw, he can hit you before you can do anything and F-throw is much easier to break out of than B-throw. U-throw is good for 10% damage and usually nothing else. You can try Copying his pills and spamming them, but he has a Sheet...

Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Donkey Kong
DK's game revolves around grab combos and landing strong attacks like Giant Punch. It's very important to remember that Kirby cannot crouch under Donkey Kong's grab, even though it looks like he should be able to. This match up would be much easier if Kirby could avoid grabs in this way since crouching is a major part of Kirby's defense. If you're crouching, make sure to d-tilt if DK comes within range to keep grabs away but avoid d-tilting should he go for an aerial approach since you cannot afford to lag yourself in that situation.

Don't be afraid to go a little more offensive since DK's large size makes him easier to hit and combo. Just make sure that if you move in for an attack that you do not miss since even a single hit from DK can be bad news. You may have to play a game heavy with feints and draws because DK can play keep away from Kirby better than Kirby can with DK, and if you try to camp it will just give him the opportunity to charge his Giant Punch. Stay close to DK, but don't leave yourself vulnerable.

Edge Guarding the Kong can be a little problematic since DK is heavy allowing him to survive a number of hits from Kirby. Additionally, he will usually be sent upward allowing him to recover much more easily. When he recovers from above, you have to be very precise in getting another hit on him to send him back off the stage because he can go for the stage or back to the ledge fairly easily and once he's back on he's hard to get back off again. If you can manage to force him to recover low, go for the Edge Hog. Yes, you can opt to D-air him, which is almost always a guaranteed KO due to DK's poor vertical recovery, but with Kirby's slow aerial mobility and the start-up lag of the d-air, it's often hard to get it through DK's Up Special before he makes it back to the ledge. Grabbing the ledge for invincibility and landing a b-air or u-air will usually yield good results.

Stages to Avoid - Dreamland, Final Destination
Stages to Use - Yoshi's Story (don't get hit)
Videos to Watch - t!mmy vs. Mexcian


Captain Falcon
This is actually one of Kirby's better matchups of the high tiers... bad sadly it's still very much in Falcon's favor. First, some general tips. I see that you can improve your fast-fall choices. Right after hitting your opponent, wait for the hitstun to finish and then fast fall into an L-cancel. Even if you think a fast-fall won't save much more than a few frames, those are a few frames that you may need in order to combo or avoid getting hit.

Specifically against Captain Falcon, you should take the initiative more often because Kirby can actually outprioritize Falcon in a number of instances. Test our your aerials against his approaches and see what works and what doesn't. In the video, note how you play defensively in the beginning and get punished. After that you go a little more on the offense and start taking stock off Falcon.

Your goal in this game is to get Falcon off the side and then take advantage of his poor recovery. Use ledge-hog to b-air when he's out far. When he's close, just edge-guard with F-tilt if he's going down for the ledge or B-air if he's trying to come in high... d-tilt and d-smash work well when he leaves himself open. When you get him off far, go for the edge hog and force him to go for the stage. When he lands, he has a long window of lag that you can take advantage of to knock him back off the stage with a B-air - don't think you have to act TOO fast, he's laggy upon landing so make sure he knows you're not getting off that ledge.
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Falco
Falco is a major Kirby counter. He has a readily spammable projectile, killer priority, more speed, non-meteor spike, ridiculous combos, and did I mention that spike?! But, yes, there is a way to fight this Top Tier.

Good moves to depend on in this match include B-air, D-tilt, F-tilt. B-air can lead to U-tilt at low percentages or knock Falco off the stage at higher percents. Getting a U-tilt on Falco is always a great thing as you'll be able to lead into another hit all the way up to high percents on this fast faller. U-tilt, U-air, or F-smash is especially handy on Falco. D-tilt is best used while playing a defensive crouch game to build up damage while staying low to the ground. F-tilt is good for a quick forward attack that can get Falco off the stage faster.

Falco tends to be more predictable than his counterpart Fox. This is because some of his moves are just so good that Falco players will generally use those moves over other moves in specific situations. Learn what attacks are coming in each situation and move in for a counter attack or better positioning.

For instance, when far from his opponent, expect Falco to fire off some lasers in your direction. To counter this attack, simply crouch under his incoming lasers - but watch out, Falco can vary the height of his lasers depending on his timing, so a Falco player who knows what he's doing will be able to hit even a small target like a crouching Kirby. Just keep your eye on where the lasers are going and close the distance by sliding forward. Should a laser come that's low enough to hit you, shield it - preferably a Power Shield - and continue forward.

When the distance is closer, Falco will either move away (maybe with a Short Hop Laser to cover his retreat) or stand his ground. Often times Falco players will opt to attack often becoming the aggressor because - let's face it - Kirby just isn't very intimidating. Falco's attack of choice is often a N-air or the spamtastic D-air. The N-air has more forward reach and speed, but the d-air has great priority below it and is great at starting up combos - you'll either be stunned on the ground (lower percents), launched into the air from the ground (mid to high percents, or spiked (while airborne). Good counters to this move is to have good spacing (sliding or rolling away or behind Falco) or to use a very precise counter-attack. An example of a counter-attack would be to u-tilt with precise timing and distancing (usually done when Falco Full-Jumps his overhead aerial). Power Shielding Falco's approach is a viable option, allowing you to attack immediately after your defense.

Expect some sort of quick attack after Falco lands from his aerial. Favored attacks are jabs, tilts, grabs, and the infamous shine. Falco's shine will usually out-prioritize anything you might want to do to him after his aerial. If you used your regular Shield, you may want to continue holding it in anticipation of Falco taking advantage of his quick combo speed, or you can opt to hold the C-stick to Dodge out of Shield and avoid any follow-ups Falco will deliver.

Copying Falco's laser is a very good strategy. Make sure you know how to take advantage of Falco Hat by knowing the uses for Short Hop Laser (SHL), Short Hop Double Laser (SHDL), and the amazing Full Jump Triple Laser (FJTL). Using the FJTL is generally what you'll do with the Falco Hat as it will outnumber the amount of lasers Falco can send at you by sending two high and one low. Since the landing lag is so short, you'll be able to cover the area above Falco to dissuade his aerial approaches, as well as the third laser going along closer to the ground to get an additional land-based laser coverage. You'll be able to crouch, shield, or otherwise evade any lasers Falco tries to send back to you in return and even Falco's shine doesn't seem to help much against Kirby Laser Spam. Make sure to use lasers in a smart fashion, don't just rely on spammage to win this match for you. Use them to disrtupt Falco's approach, retaliate his camping, or to create an opening to move in for a f-tilt, d-smash, grab, or aerial.

Make sure to get Falco over the edge. The best way to take out Falco is simply hit him during his recovery and then go for an Edge Hog right away. Use B-air, F-tilt, and B-throw to move him off the stage as soon as possible.

Stages to Avoid - Final Destination (laser-friendly stages)
Stages to Use - Fountain of Dreams (stages with ground transformation)
Videos to Watch -


Fox
This is one of Kirby's hardest match-ups when playing against a good opponent. Many of the things mentioned with Falco can be applied to this match-up with the differences coming mostly from Fox's movement, Shine, and use of lasers.

Fox can either play offensive or defensive against Kirby. Defensively, laser spammage can rack up damage from long distance and force Kirby to approach. Offensively Fox can use his speed to keep Kirby under pressure ridiculously well.

The only thing you can really do against a defensive or 'campy' Fox is to approach (and try to avoid lasers as best you can while doing so). Once close, Fox can move into offensive mode as he sees fit, or he can go for hit-and-run strategies and move back to defensive mode. Because of this you have to make sure to catch him with something - preferably before he can hit you with something - or, at the very least, make sure you're not letting him hit you with anything more threatening than a laser.

Against an offensive Fox you just won't be able to keep up with his speed. The best you can do is compensate by reading your opponent and making sure you're the one landing the hits instead of taking them. Be very wary of Fox's grab. His u-throw can combo into u-air which will rack up the damage or just outright KO you off the top. This is very abusable and spammable for Fox players to use, so make sure to always keep an eye out for it.

F-air seems to work well against Fox in many situations. Full Jumping it will let you cover a lot of area with its multi-hits and long duration. Short Hopping it can catch Fox while he's grounded or just going airborne. The triple kick can oft catch Fox with all three hits, but it's the third one that's especially important as it can send Fox a good distance away. If you only manage to hit with the first one or two kicks, make sure to Fast Fall and L-cancel because many times you'll be able to take your opponent by surprise with a follow-up f-tilt or grab.

B-air is always good to rely on. It can combo into U-tilt at low percents, or send Fox flying at mid to high percents. Using full-jumps, multi-jumps, and short hops to mix up your B-air positioning can always keep Fox off balance.

D-air is generally harder to hit with because of its start-up animation, but it's always nice if and when you do land it on Fox. Move in for a grab or some other follow-up since most of the time Fox won't be sent very far from this move.

When you grab, go for a D-throw at low percents to tech chase (or catch Fox with a u-tilt if he doesn't tech). At higher percents, just throw Fox toward the ledge, usually Back-throw since it's faster. If you're feeling lucky, you can go for a U-throw and try to catch Fox with something afterwards should he DI poorly (U-air at low percents), works well at super-low percents since it's a guarenteed 10% for the u-throw plus it cannot be broken out of.

If you manage to get a U-tilt on Fox, it's a perfect setup for U-air or B-air from low to high percents, but if Fox is at too high of percent you won't be able to reach him before he can get out of HitStun. Because of this, make sure not to rely too much on u-tilt at high percents and just go for something that will send Fox horizontal instead (f-tilt).

When Kirby is knocked off the ledge you have to be very, very smart with your recovery. If you go high, Fox can generally jump up and hit you again and even if not, he'll be on the ground ready to strike and Kirby has little in retaliation due to priority and speed. When recovering low, Fox will generally jump out and shine spike, or edge hog and go for shines and b-airs. Utilize your multi-jumps very well and be patient. Better to use those jumps for something close to the stage than to get hit away and not be able to make it back with a few saved jumps. When recovering, choose to either go high or low - you can't do both and Fox can take you out either way, but know your opponent and choose the best way.

If you go high, make sure to watch what Fox is doing. He'll generally go for B-air to knock you away again - and if he does you'll generally lose a stock because you won't have your jumps for recovery anymore. Just use your Jumps to stall in the air until you see a safer time to return to the ground. Use fast falling to get down quickly, and to mind games your opponent by varying your falling speed by alternating jumps, fast falls, and regular falls. If all else fails and you're out of jumps, you can always use Stone to make a brute force attempt to touch the ground, thereby regaining all your jumps so that you can retry your recovery options again should you be hit afterward. Air Dodging is generally a poor choice since Fox can launch multiple attacks before you can even make it back down to the ground - but it's not out of the question, especially if Air Dodging down can get you to touch the ground and get your jumps back.

When coming in low, watch what Fox is doing closely. In general he's going to try to go for shine spikes or b-airs. Either one is pretty devastating at this point. The best advice is to learn how to deal with each because a lot of this is based on timing and reflexes. There are a variety of ways in dealing with these edge guarding techniques, but I will go over a few of the more common ways.

To avoid shine spikes, you can drop down low and try to hug the wall as you come up. Right when you know Fox is going to a Shine, use your Final Cutter for vertical recovery and then try to Wall Tech so that if you get shine spiked, you won't be send downward and you can immediately use another Final Cutter (hitting Fox in the process would be handy). You can also try to time a U-air to hit Fox right before he can move in for the shine. This is difficult because Fox moves quickly, hits quickly, and Kirby's U-air only has three frames of hitboxes. If you can pull it off, though, it's has amazing results.

Another way to deal with shine spikes is to not drop low upon your recovery. This works especially well when you've been knocked off the stage at fairly low percents so that you're close to the stage with plenty of jumps to start. Start your recovery about even with the height of the stage. As you jump forward, send out a f-air and kick at Fox. Your horizontal position should make it hard for him to jump out and shine spike you as well as make it difficult for him to jump from the ledge and b-air you. This recovery technique is all about distancing and reading your opponent. The reason you want to have multiple jumps to start is so that you can fully capitalize on the f-air by pulling back away from the stage and then jumping toward it again with another F-air. You can use this as an intimidation method as you cautiously make your way back to the stage a little at a time until you see an opening to grab the ledge. If Fox gets aggressive, he can jump right into the F-air and, since he's moving toward you, he'll likely be caught in all three kicks and the third one will send him back into the stage, against the wall, and hopefully downward to his doom - or at least far enough away to let you grab the edge and go for some good, old-fashioned Kirby edge guarding.

Stages to Avoid - Final Destination
Stages to Use - Battlefield, Pokemon Stadium
Videos to Watch -


Ganondorf
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Ice Climber
The first thing I know is their sliding gives them excellent mobility, but only on flat surfaces - so if you can counterpick a bumpy or awkward stage it can help. Good counterpick stages include Onett, Pokefloats, Rainbow Cruise, and Planet Zebes (Brinstar Depths works well too, but it's banned in tournaments).

A good tactic is to eliminate the CPU climber first - it's easy for him/her to get separated from the primiary Ice Climber at which point it is vulnerable and easy to combo (remember all your lvl 1 CPU practice ^_^). Try to move in when the ICs are vulnerable (missed grab or smash), hitting with a Short-Hopped aerial can net you the strike you need to separate them (see how handy it is?) . I usually don't go for Kirbycides against the ICs if only because there's a chance of grabbing Nana instead - if you've swallowed one of them, spit him out quickly and you can usually hit the other one with him. Lol.

The key really is getting them off the edge. IC's recovery can be easy to intercept both in the air and on the ground when you know what to look for.

Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Jigglypuff
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Kirby
Uh... >_>
Videos to Watch - CopyCat vs Kirbstir


Link
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Luigi
Luigi plain counters Kirby in almost every way. Any attack he does can get through any of your attacks to the point where even if you time *and* distance your attacks well, you'll still most likely trade strikes. This is especially true against aggressive Luigi players who just throw out moves as much as they can.

Learn to look for openings between attacks. They're there. It will be hard, but you can learn how Luigi moves and attacks and start to get your hits in better. He's hard to combo for other characters, so Luigi is practically impossible to combo with Kirby; remember this! If you can get a combo in, go for it, but remember that if you get hit, chances are you're going to be knocked into the air just high enough for Luigi to hit you with whatever he wants... at his leisure.

From a thread:
Now, about Luigi... try spamming b-airs against him. Lots. This isn't because it's necessarily a 'cheap' tactic, more like it's pretty much Kirby's only tactic. So to make every b-air count. Go for perfect timing, accuracy, distancing, and mindgames. You really gotta have it all for this matchup! If you can read Luigi's approach and movements, this matchup shouldn't be as hard as those top tier opponents... not that it'll ever be in Kirby's favor, or even nearly a fair fight. ;)

If you ever get a u-tilt on Luigi at low to moderate-low percent, get that b-air/u-air on him! That really is the only reliable combo you'll ever hope to go for in this fight. Ha ha.

If and when you get Luigi off the stage, you gotta put that puppy down. Hit him with anything to keep him away. B-airs are, of course, a good choice, but if you can hit him with a d-air or u-air, so much the better. Nab him with a Swallowcide if you have to - just make sure he doesn't come back.

Some additional advice:
If you're not spamming b-air, spam some f-tilts or d-tilts. Use u-throw or b-throw, not d-throw.

Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Mario
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Marth
The same things I said about Sheik can be applied to Marth. But you gotta watch out for his grab setups. If he grabs you, he can F-throw and re-grab at low percents or F-throw into a F-smash if you don't DI away from him. He can easily counter your DI by throwing you backward, at which point you have to DI behind him or get tippered. In other words, you have to be psychic. Lol.

You have to be very, very good at keeping just out of his distance and then moving in for an attack and predicting his next move. If you can predict his F-smash, for instance, you can shield, slide out of your shield and get an attack of your own in. Beware of D-throw on Marth. Most of the time it is safe at lower percents because people don't know how bad Kirby is. But people who are observant, or have Kirby practice, know that Marth gets out of hitstun after the D-throw fast enough to do something (like reverse Dolphin Slash). Go for D-throw if they don't know how to react to it, or U-throw at very low percents in hopes that they DI it wrong, or just B-throw to get them off the stage.

From YouTube:
It's really hard to approach Marth because of the range and power of his sword. Unfortunately Kirby really doesn't have anything to compete with this. If you try Final Cutters from a distance Marth has plenty of time to jump and move in for an attack of his own. You just have to learn to read your opponent so that you can move in quickly and safely and try to get as much damage as you can which, unfortunately, will usually just be a single hit.

Another YouTube Comment:
Marths love spamming F-smash against Kirby. You cannot be too aggressive against them because of this, you have to learn to defend against a F-smash or a grab at a moment's notice. You can shield F-smash, but you have to dodge or duck the grab. Practice sliding out of your shield after Marth f-smashes you so that you can move in for a tilt or grab right away.

Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Mewtwo
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Mr. Game & Watch
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Ness
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Peach
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -

(Picture Coming Soon)
Pikachu
There's not much to say about this match since you did pretty well. I like to spam B-airs and F-tilts against Pika and then use B-airs to hit him when he tries to recover. Watch out for his u-smash, and if you're grabbed, DI behind him and jump (because he's going to try to U-smash you of course).
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -



Pichu
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Roy
Kirby Vs. Roy is a little different in that alot of things that don't work against Marth will work against Roy. Roy has a bit of an advantage over you, but its far from enough to make the fight un-winable.

I'll do this like I always do, stage pics first. Stage's with far walls work best Kirby and work well against Roy. Roy's recovery is one of, if not THE worst so all you really have to worry about is getting him off the stage and he'll more than likely be dead. As such, my level for this match up is Dream Land 64. You don't have to worry much about Roy's range when compared to Marth as Roy HAS to be close to fight, which relieves alot of the pressure from Kirby as far as approaching goes. As such, FD isn't really a BAD choice in this match up, but as far as stages go, DL 64 is your best bet.

As far as stage banning goes, Im gonna say Yoshi Story. Roy CAN get low % kills on YS and his recovery can actually keep him alive on that stage >_> Im also gonna say FoD as a ban, as the platforms combined with Roy's fast fall makes him dangerous. Not alot really to say about stages for this match up. Roy's another one those character that has alot of trouble everywhere(you know, low tier) like Kirby, so outside of FoD Roy has no huge advantages and outside of YS Kirby has no huge disadvantages.

As for the actual fight, Im going to first talk about Roy. Roy DOES have some advantages over Kirby, like the fact that he DOES have more range, he is faster and his grab range is alot farther than Kirby's. One of Roy's main approaches here will be Fair->Dtilt. The Fair will come out fast and stun you and the Dtilt will pop you up to which he can either grab you or Fsmash you. Another big approach is with the DED(Double Edged Dance)forward->DED up which is something else that pop you up for a grab or an Fsmash. Also watch out for Roy's DD as its usually bait for a DED. If you see Roy DDing either wait it out or(and this is the ONLY time you'll hear me say this) you MAY want to go for a Final Cutter. Roy's grab game isn't as good as Marth's, but it is still usable for him. He will probably use Fthrow or Bthrow at low damages and try and use your hit stun to follow up with an Fsmash. Beware of Roy's Fsmash, as sweet spotted it can cause some serious problems. Roy isn't huge on edge guarding, but his Dtilt can knock you out of FC and keep you from the ledge, so you want to try and avoid ever getting hit too far from the ledge.

Kirby has some actual advantages in this fight, which is a rarity, so enjoy it. First off is your recovery distance which is waaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than his. Also, unlike against Marth, you CAN CC alot in this match up as Roy's sweet spot is so close to his body. You should be weary of Dtilt, but you should be able to CC it for a while. Also, your Bair out prioritizes his aerials, which means the Fence of Pain will work well here. Roy is also a semi-fast faller which means he can be combo'd out of Utilt(REAPER COMBO FTW :kirby:) and he can be Dthrow->tech chased. However Roy is NOT a heavy weight, despite what alot of n00bs tend to believe. He's actually very light and as such can be taken off of the stage alot easier than Marth. Combined with his horrible recovery range and you can get some easy kill's against him.

There's not alot to this match up, its not horribly broken or anything, its actually pretty even as long as you keep your cool. Just make sure to keep yourself spaced correctly and try to avoid Roy's sweet spot and you should be able to win this one.
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Samus
To take on Samus you have to know Kirby's attack very, very well. If you don't have the timing and distancing down to the tee, you will have a hard time ever getting a hit on her. She's hard to combo, don't think about stringing attacks on her, but focus on not getting hit and getting any hit in on her as you can. Go for Kirbycides, D-air spikes, and Pac-Man kills as much as you can. Pac-Man kills are when you jump out after her and "gobble up" her bombs as she recovers. Make sure to make "wakka-wakka" noises, ha ha ha. Keep an eye out on what gets past her crouch cancel, and how to avoid her crouch cancel counter at all costs. You don't want to get hit. Approach her cautiously if she's holding back, especially if she's spamming missiles. She can hide behind a wall of missiles and then smash, dash attack, grab, or aerial as you approach. Duck under her missiles or knock them out of the air with F-tilts (aerials can destroy them too if you have good timing). Copying her Charge Beam is a good idea, especially when the Samus is good at avoiding Swallowcides.

From another email:
Samus is rather slow, which is a boon for Kirby, but she uses long ranged attacks to keep Kirby away. This is problematic because Kirby lacks both speed and range to deal with this character. What you therefore have to do is learn to approach close enough to make Samus think twice about playing the "range game" and move into close combat tactics.

But you shouldn't rush in at this point, because Samus still has the upper hand. Her aerial options far out prioritize Kirby's stubby range plus she still has other tactics she might capitalize on, such as bombs to cut off your approach or simply fleeing. What you have to do is look for an opening and predict her next move. If she's going to jump to a platform to escape from you, jump and show that you're ready to follow. If she's going to drop a bomb and move back for spacing, whip out your Final Cutter and send a slice after her. If she thinks you're moving in for an attack, let her take the bait and wait for her to make the first move and then hit her while she lags.

Copying Samus is very viable, if you can pull it off. Not only will it get you a valuable ranged attack, but one that has the potential to KO her without getting her to %200. Go for B-airs and U-tilts to combo and build up damage. After that, do anything that will get her off the stage, such as F-tilt, D-smash, F-air, and more B-airs.

U-air is also good to hit with since it can net you a KO at sufficient damage, but it's harder to hit with and nearly impossible to combo into at higher percents. D-airs are the best thing to hit a recovering Samus with because even if she Meteor Cancels, chances are she'll still be KO'd because she can't get back to the ledge (if she's close enough to the stage with a jump, she can meteor cancel, air-dodge and grapple, otherwise she can only use Up+B and will most likely be too low to recover). If she's bomb jumping, float out there and touch her bombs to make her drop (the "Pac-Man" strategy).

This is a hard match up however you go about it, so good luck.

Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Sheik
Do whatever you can to NOT get grabbed by Sheik, and duck under as many of her attacks as you can... crouch cancel counter when you get hit by something that you can't get ducked under. Get her off the stage, edge hog, then stand up and hit her as she lags from her Up+B recovery.

From another Email:
She's going to needle spam you. Shiek players just do that, and there's nothing wrong with it because it's a viable strategy and against Kirby it becomes an almost flawless strategy. She's fast enough to play keep-away and out prioritizes pretty much any of your attacks. When you get hit or grabbed, you're going to be set up into a F-air. When she D-throws you, DI behind her so the F-air is harder for her to use, and maybe she'll try to go for a B-air instead and miss the sweetspot.

Good Shieks will just U-Smash you at low percents, get the f-air on you anyway, or hit you with a U-air at mid to high percents for a KO. There's not much Kirby can do about this because he's in hit stun forever.

The only thing you can do is know how to not get hit. If she grabs, duck. If she needles in the air, shield. Rolling away is useful too because her attacks are faster than anything you can come up with to break her follow-ups. U-tilt to B-air or U-air is almost the only thing you can rely on. Copying her Needle Storm can help avoid her camping.
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Yoshi
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Young Link
Generally, good Y. Link players will try to stay back and hit you with at much stuff as they can get away with before trying to go for the KO. This Young Link didn't really do that, so you could move in and get your hits in without much problem. What you have to do to fight against other Y. Links is to learn how to approach while avoiding boomarangs, bombs, and arrows.

Once in close, go for grabs and u-tilts as follow ups to aerials, jabs, and whatever approaches you can get away with. Y. Link is fairly easy to combo, compared to other characters like Samus, so you shouldn't have too much trouble getting him off the stage. Jump out and hit him with anything, particularly B-air, U-air, and D-air. If he gets close to the stage, edge hog to get invincibility frames and then hit him with a B-air (or U-air if chance allows... you can even go for a Swallowcide, but aerials don't have to be SD-Canceled)

Shiek and Marth are going to give Kirby serious trouble. Shiek is fast and mad gay. Marth has a sword that is almost impossible to get through and has too much power behind it to be balanced. Luigi seems to be one of my hardest match-ups, maybe even more so than Marth on the average.
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -


Zelda
Stages to Avoid -
Stages to Use -
Videos to Watch -

(Currently unfinished)
 

t!MmY

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
5,146
Location
Oregon
NNID
t1mmy_smash
What have I got myself into? >_>;

By the way, discussion on proper stages to counterpick would be nice. I really don't have preferences when fighting opponents and just rely on guessing stages they personally aren't comfortable with. (Except FD, sometimes the worst neutral for Kirby).
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
Ok, I'll help.

Kirby Vs Marth

This is, in my honest opinion, Kirby's absolute worst match up. Marth is just too gay of a character for Kirby to take on one on one. He has the advantage of being both floaty, and pretty heavy, meaning its going to be hard to get him off the stage and even harder to get a solid kill on him. Then there's the ******** range and power on his tipper, but even a non-sweet spotted hit can tear through Kirby. And his grab range, OH DEAR GOD, his broken *** grab range >.<(more on that later) To be honest, if the Marth knows what he's doing in this match, he absolutely wont lose.

First things first, stage pics. Or rather, stages that Marth doesn't have a horribly overpowered advantage on so you can't possibly even hope to harm him. Your choices here are Corneria and Jungle Japes. Thats it. And they are only good for you if your better at camping than he is :urg:
Stages to avoid: Yoshi Story, FD, Battlefield, Dreamland 64 and Pokemon Stadium. And those are just the stages that Marth gets an AMAZING advantage on, all the other levels just give him a moderate to above average advantage. FoD is supposed to be a bad stage for Marth, the problem is that in this particular match up, its pretty much worse for Kirby :( So yeah, you haven't even begun the match and your already at a horrible disadvantage.

Now on to the important stuff, the actual match. First off, let me just say this, being the aggressor in this match will only hurt you. You have NO good approaches against Marth and as soon as you enter his happy zone, its lights out for you. Unfortunately, the more basic Kirby strategy of crouch->retaliate, is not going to work in this match up. Marths Dtilt/Fsmash outranges anything you can do from a crouch. You also cant trust the ledge because tipper >>>>>> Kirby ledge games. If you want to actually be able to compete in this match your going to have to play a little differently. I've found that this is much more of a waiting game than alot of match ups. Shield camping is your friend, as is light shielding. But you cant be careless with your shield, just sitting there with it up will get you grabbed. Your going to have to keep moving, make it seem like your approaching/retreating then shield the incoming attacks. Your gonna have to take a few hits, and wait the Marth out untill he makes a mistake. From there, its just a matter of punishing his mistakes as well as the situation will alow and then retreating before the Marth gets free and absolutely destroys you.

I find that it helps to have your back against a wall in this match up as it gives you something to transfer some of your momentum to if you take a hard hit. Its also something that helps you actually combo when you manage to hit Marth. Utilt->Bair works a whole lot better when Marth cant escape from the attacks. The big negative here is Marth's short hopped double Fairs. Against a wall gives you no where to escape if he gets you in a Short hopped double fair frenzy, and it will lead to some serious damage. And while on the note of serious damage, remember that most of marths moves become killers when you hit triple digits. You'll have to start avoiding more than just his Fsmash, you'll also have to look out for Utilt/Dtilt, Uair and even Dsmash(although its rarely used)

So yeah, not alot of help I can give you for this match because Kirby is pretty helpless. But wait, theres more. I haven't touched on Marths grab game yet. The big thing to look out for here is the Fthrow. If you DI it towards Marth he can simply regrab you. And as soon as you DI away from him, he can just Fsmash you. Oh yeah, and it will most likely tipper. Isn't that nice? Fthrow->Tipper. Just perfect:ohwell: So how do you avoid this? Well, the solution is very simple. Just don't get grabbed. How do you do that? Well, you can just crouch under the grab. Whats that? You say I said that crouching isn't good for this match? Well, its not. BUT, if you can see a grab coming, crouching will work, and you can retaliate with a Dsmash. The problem here comes from Marth's broken grab range. If you're in the air, you cant crouch, and his grab range > your aerial range. And if at any point you tech in this match without some crazy momentum to carry you really far from Marth, more likely than not, he's going to be able to grab you out of it.

But what about Kirby's grab game you ask? The thing I spent so much time explaining in my Captain Falcon post? Forget it, doesn't work here. Dthrow tech chase isn't going to work in this match up as Marth's tech goes too far too fast and technically Marth doesn't even need to tech the throw, he can escape the stun before he hits the ground. Your best bets in this match is either Uthrow for damage and a way to escape, or Bthrow and hope you can get a Bair in afterwords. Other than that, not much going on for Kirby's grab game here:cry:

A few other things to remember about this match up. Do like Hylian did, Dtilt > Dsmash as an edge guard as it has greater priority. FC is NOT to be used in this match unless absolutely necessary, and even mean when recovering. If you can air dodge to the ledge, thats what you should be doing, because Marth's Dtilt will **** your FC. The ONLY time you should use FC is if you are absolutely sure you'll sweet spot the ledge or you absolutely CAN'T get to the ledge any other way. Also, don't use stone, but I guess that goes without sayin XD.
and then
Some advice for Falcon

First and foremost, before you even begin to fight with a Falcon you have to have to think about the stage. If you are fighting on FD you're pretty much helpless on stage so you're going to have to play as defensively as possible, staying in your shield as much as possible, abusing shield grabs and camping the ledge. If you're playing on FoD then you can afford to be more aggressive as Falcon has trouble maneuvering on the small stage and the platforms screw up his shffls. If you get the chance to counter pick I suggest either FoD or Kongo Jungle(I can never remember if thats the right one or if its the other one >.<) as confining Falcon severely damages his play style. Another suggestion COULD be Dream Land 64 as the high roof and large death box can keep you alive for a long time while still giving you the chance to gimp Falcon but its still a very large, flat level, giving him a major advantage when it comes to attacking.

Next will be the advantages Falcon has over you(there's quite a few so just sit and listen) First off, as previously stated, on large, flat stages, you're pretty much helpless and Falcon has amazing freedom of movement. He's very, very fast on the ground and that carries to his aerial movement. His SHFFLs can cover a large distance and his attacks hit hard. He CAN chain grab you, and he CAN Dthrow->Knee you, even at higher percents. His tech chase game is good, as he can move around the stage amazingly fast with fox trotting. And, of course, he out ranges you. While his Fair is sort of low range/low priority, his Nair, Uair and Bair all have ALOT of range over you and his Uair and Nair will more than likely out prioritize anything you have. And lets not forget his stomp. Kirby is one of those unfortunate characters who can both be combo'd by the stomp and killed by it. Oh, and he has the Falcon Punch, so your basically screwed XD

Ok, your not really screwed, and to be honest, as far as the high tiers go, Falcon is one of the more winnable match ups. First of, and this is probably the most important thing to remember, you absolutely, positively, MUST have good DI in this match up. The fact that Falcon CAN Dthrow->Knee doesn't mean you have to let him sweet spot you with it. If you remember to C-Stick DI, or more importantly, Duel Stick DI, you can avoid most of his kill combos. Secondly, crouch. No, more. More. MORE! YOU NEED TO CROUCH MORE. Seriously, Kirby's crouch screws with Falcons. You cant be grabbed from a crouch, you cant be sweet spotted by the Knee, and your Dtilt out prioritizes alot of his approaches(not all, but some) Also, a little something interesting about Falcon's Stomp. I've found that if its not timed JUST RIGHT, you can Utilt him out of it. And you know what that means? REAPER COMBO:kirby: Yes, the beautiful Utilt->Utilt combo. It works soooo well on CF and you can combo one Reaper Combo into another Reaper Combo(at low %'s) A few other things to remember during this match up: Full hopped Double Bairs can work very well on a shielding Falcon as you may either shield stab him with the second, or follow up with utilts which will knock him out of his grab. His recovery is AMAZINGLY gimpable, sweet spotted Dsmash will basicly ruin him. And don't be afraid of going after him off of the ledge, as a fast faller with a predictable recovery there's not alot he can do while off of the ledge.

Now I'd like to talk about Kirby's grab game separately as it is VERY important to this match up. Now, despite what Nashun would have you believe Kirby CAN Dthrow tech chase Falcon. And Falcon's Tech isn't terribly fast or long so with proper timing you SHOULD be able to chase him down. I suggest ALWAYS dashing forward as most players will tech away from you, but if he does tech towards you, you can dash dance backwards and you should still be able to get him. Now, a smart player will quickly learn to avoid the tech chase by NOT teching and simply rolling or attacking off of the ground. Now, the unfortunate thing about this is, you dont have the luxury of being able to tilt AND still be able to tech chase if he does tech. This is where you have to be smart. Once again, dash forward and if he doesnt tech, dash dance back and CC and either jab if you have time, or shield his wake up attack. If you see him roll, chase, you should be able to catch him. If your close to the ledge and Falcon has enough damage, I would suggest Dthrow tech chase to Dsmash as it can lead to an easy edge guard kill. If you're having trouble getting a grab out, remember that the stomp is very punishable if he hits your shield, as is a missed grab, although I might suggest a CC'd Dsmash for a missed grab as you can actually grab him out of it if you hit him with the inside of your feet and he pops up. Also, don't forget that you can Utilt->grab and that if you time it properly, you can Utilt him out of a Stomp. Also, it should be noted that Falcon cant do alot to escape if you grab him on a small platform.

As you can see, this match up isn't hopeless, it is in fact very winnable if you know what your doing. An interesting side note, I usually play this match up WITHOUT facing CF. Your Bair and Utilt are your best moves for this match up. Remember, if you really want to win, you'll stack everything in your favor. CP the proper levels, play to the particular level your on, and crouch ALOT.
I'll do Young Link and Falco if you want. Maybe some others as well, it depends on what kind of mood im in after work.

edit: you can either link to the original posts through my quotes and quote them into your guide or you can just be lazy and Copy/Paste them, I dont really care either way.
 

Cereal Rabbit

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
1,536
Location
Davis, CA
I'd love to help but I'm just another scrub who needs to get better.

I like how it's in alphabetical order. Alphabetical order is too good!!!
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
Ok, Im gonna do Y. Link, and like the other match-up posts I did, its gonna be long, so deal with it.

Kirby Vs. Y. Link

Kirby versus Young Link is an interesting match-up in that it has two characters with very few killing options. While both characters have kill moves, they require set up and cant simply be spammed like so many other characters(Im looking at you Marth) Alot in this match is going to revolve around building damage and then forcing you opponent into a situation where you can guarantee a killing hit. Unfortunately, despite Young Link being a low tier character, he's still far better than Kirby, especially when it comes to building damage. He's alot faster and has alot of range over you, meaning he's going to be a bit of an annoying fight.

The first thing I want to mention(as I always do) is your stage picks. Y. Link is all about the projectile spam so your going to want to pick a stage that hinders this as much as possible. A good choice would obviously be Corneria as the fin provides cover from every projectile(including bombs) and will force Y.Link to come down and fight you in close quarters. And while I don't normally recommend it for any Kirby match-up, I might even suggest Green Greens as it has alot of cover as well. FD isn't all bad in this fight as its not terribly hard to avoid alot of Y.Link's spam but he's a quick little bugger and he can easily out run you. As for stages to avoid, FoD is definitely a big one, as Yoshi Story. If you cant get to one of the preferred stages, your going to want to use a stage with a large death box. Young Link's recovery isn't as good as his older counter part, so a large death box will keep you alive alot longer than him.

For the actual match, I want to reiterate that there is going to be alot of spam. I mean a LOT. Like, more than pretty much any other character in the game. Y.Link is all about bombs and the boomerang, and if your opponent knows what their doing, they'll keep you pinned down with one, then start spamming the other+arrows. Kirby is an odd character when it comes to avoiding spam, as you can crouch under the boomerang, simply shield the bomb, but you cant really do much when it comes to arrows. They arch downward which means that you cant crouch them, and they shield stab you once your at about 60% shield. You also cant jab cancel them as they have high priority. Luckily, arrows only really become spammable for Y.Link at close range, so if you can avoid the spam, you can get in close.

The close range battle is alot different for this match-up. Y.Links ground attacks are generally slow. His Ftilt, Dtilt, Fsmash, and Usmash are all easily avoidable. His Dsmash and Utilt do come out relatively quickly, but should still be avoidable. His aerial game however is alot better than yours. His Nair sex kick is fast, high priority and can combo into itself. His Fair is slow, but it has better knock back and range. His Bair is is another high priority, low knock back attack making it good for combos and his Uair ***** you if you end up above him. His Dair is a special case in that its really low priority/range and laggy, but very powerful and easily kills Kirby at around 90%

Ok, thats enough about the Y.Link side of this battle, lets move on to the Kirby side(lol, Kirbycide) If you want to be able to compete in this match, your gonna have to stick to your opponent. Don't let Y.Link put distance between you, he has too much of an advantage at a distance. Y.Link is fairly easy to combo, so use the Reaper Combo and use it hard. Utilt->Uair is your friend in this match up as you always want to try and get your opponent off of the stage. Y.Link has a fairly gimpable recovery if you do your job well, but he also has a fairly awesome recovery if he does his job well. At low damages you can CC Dtilt his Up B but if the Y.Link knows what he's doing, he'll space his Up B to hit you with only the last strong hit and then grab the ledge. Your best bet will be to camp the ledge and use ledge invincibility to get around his Up B attack and Bair or Uair him out of it. Y.Link's tether recovery is gimpable ONLY if he doesn't sweet spot it. Use the ledge to stay right above him, then ledge hop a Dair and force it downward. Its hard for Y.Link to avoid this if he's hanging. However, if the Y.Link knows what he's doing, he'll simply use the hook shot then jump instantly from it to get close enough to use his Up B.

Reversing situations, if YOU are recovering, YOUR going to have to play smart to avoid Y.Links edge guards. Now, Y.Link is an odd character in that he doesn't really have a good aerial he can preform from the ledge to kill you. His best kill moves, Nair/Dair, have far too much lag to be usable. Because of that, Y.Links edge guard is centered around moves he can use ON the stage rather than off of it. The most obvious would be Dtilt or Dsmash and there's two very good ways to avoid those. If your close enough to the ledge, the best way to avoid those would just be to Air Dodge up either on to the stage or on to the ledge. If the Y.Link uses Dtilt, the stage is your best bet as its laggy but if he uses Dsmash your going to want to aim for the ledge as the attack has a second part(behind him) and lasts long enough to hit you if you land on the stage. Now, theres a second situation that will most likely come up, and thats where your far too low to be able to Air Dodge through the attack. When this situation comes up, your obviously stuck with the Final Cutter. Now, obviously, your best option here would simply be to sweet spot the ledge, but thats by no means easy. If you know that your not going to sweet spot the ledge, you should always attempt to tech the attack. Now, I know that that seems hard, but its really not. Just press L/R when you start moving up in the animation. The attack is quick enough and the tech window is large enough that you should be able to hit it relatively easily.

Next is the grab game, which, for maybe the first time ever, YOU have the advantage in. Y.Link's grab is slow to come out and even slower to end if it misses, so you wont see alot of grabbing on your opponents side. If he does get a grab your not gonna see much more than a Dthrow from him as it his only combo throw. You can wiggle out of the hit stun at low damages and get in an attack before he can get to you(I suggest DIing to the side and Bairing him) However, be careful at high damages as your hit stun will make you vulnerable to a Dthrow->Dair combo. Your grab on the other hand. comes out quickly and your throw game is actually pretty good in this match up. The hit stun from your Dthrow IS escapable at around 40%(maybe lower) but most opponents will actually go for the tech anyways >.> If thats the case, Y.Link is a very tech chase-able character and as such, you should use it to your advantage. Bthrow is good near the ledge, especially if you can get a Bair in as well. I'd avoid using the Uthrow as it just puts distance between you and Y.Link which is something you want to avoid.

Finally, some things to remember. Bair spam works well in this match-up, use it as much as possible. Stone can also play an interesting role as you can use it as a mindgame(as stated originally by Hylian) you can turn to stone, and then right as Y.Link attempts to grab you can release the stone and dodge the grab. From there you can punish with a smash, Fsmash if your near the ledge, Toe Dsmash if your near the ledge and he's at high damage, Usmash if he's no where near the ledge >_>

P.S. This was NOT typed on my wii.
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
Sorry for the double post, but since I doubt you'll actually READ everything I just wrote >_>

I usually talk about stages in my long *** posts but if you want to go more in depth then we should do it AFTER we finish all of the match ups. We can either add them in later or edit them into your second post.
 

t!MmY

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
5,146
Location
Oregon
NNID
t1mmy_smash
Fox and Falco have been added to the lists with some good info. I woke up at 5:00 am just to have time to do this. x_x

(No, I didn't notice you wrote that Pink Reaper... or I didn't notice you didn't write that since I still haven't had time to read what you wrote). x_x x_x x_x
 

psykoplympton

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
607
Location
MA
vs falco i like ti try and b-throw when im close to the edge. it sets up perfectly for eay edgeguards on falcos predictable recovery. b-air and n-air are nice high priority moves to chase falco with off the ledge. if you can predict where hes going its cake. just my 2 cents.
 

Tomato Kirby

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
582
vs falco i like ti try and b-throw when im close to the edge. it sets up perfectly for eay edgeguards on falcos predictable recovery. b-air and n-air are nice high priority moves to chase falco with off the ledge. if you can predict where hes going its cake. just my 2 cents.
Why does N-air become a nice high-priority move?


I like the guide, t!MmY and Pink Reaper. The guide is another reminder of why Kirby is low-tier.
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
Falco's phantasm has ******** bad priority. The nair doesn't have amazing priority or anything like that but it has relatively high priority and is enough to knock Falco out of his Phantasm. The knock back is weak but that is actually a good thing as it doesn't hit him up and forces as Fire Bird which is easy to gimp:kirby:
 

psykoplympton

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
607
Location
MA
Falco's phantasm has ******** bad priority. The nair doesn't have amazing priority or anything like that but it has relatively high priority and is enough to knock Falco out of his Phantasm. The knock back is weak but that is actually a good thing as it doesn't hit him up and forces as Fire Bird which is easy to gimp:kirby:
yeah ill intercept phantasm with nair the follow with bair or fair to gimp while he is firefoxing.
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
Hoy t!mmy, I just read your guide on Fox and I feel there's something that needs to be added. Once you hit triple digit %'s(If you can last that long >_>) Fox's Utilt becomes your worst enemy. Just like your Utilt it can out-prioritize alot of your aerials and it has more than enough knock back to send Kirby off the top.

The same needs to be said about Falco's Dtilt. It's not a heavily used kill move for most Falco players but it works very well on Kirby in the triple digits.
 
Top Bottom