The new meta

[KeetZ]

So ever since the nerf I have seen even less Sonics played at the higher level.
Do you think it's because of the nerf or the developing meta? Where do you think he stands in terms of being optimal against the top teir characters?

 

[spiNR]

I always felt that he always struggled against the top tiers. Those match-ups have only gotten harder with the nerfs he's gotten compared to what little everybody around him has gotten hit with.

 

[YELLO]

It is DEFINITELY the nerfs, sonic has a very difficult time killing now, it's quite sad

 

[Gregory2590]

Sonic already had trouble killing top characters before nerfs(yes, even with his formerly god tier bthrow), and it's even worse now. Now, they're resorting to being even more defensive since their already limited options are limited further due to the stronger characters becoming even MORE stupid and Sonic becoming even less viable. This is what happens when you let your community FULLY decide what should be changed.


tl;dr: **** this game, i'm salty, and it's probably gonna get worse

 

[Jasku]

I have no troubles killing with Sonic now ._.
Actually, I barely notice the nerf. The only thing I notice is the BThrow nerf. But just that.

 

[KeetZ]

Sonic already had trouble killing top characters before nerfs(yes, even with his formerly god tier bthrow), and it's even worse now. Now, they're resorting to being even more defensive since their already limited options are limited further due to the stronger characters becoming even MORE stupid and Sonic becoming even less viable. This is what happens when you let your community FULLY decide what should be changed.


tl;dr: **** this game, i'm salty, and it's probably gonna get worse

Whole heartedly agree with this statement.
I'll always play Sonic, but recently I've been playing Diddy again and he may soon become my main.

 

[AJDOH]

I have no troubles killing with Sonic now ._.
Actually, I barely notice the nerf. The only thing I notice is the BThrow nerf. But just that.

That's opinionated. You probably are never in the position against good players who don't let you get the kill moves you want. Since the nerfs, Sonic's kill moves have basically been reduced to Bair and Fsmash. Upsmash, which was once his strongest kill move, doesn't even kill until around 125+ now.
It's, like everyone else says, pretty sad, actually. Sakurai listens to the overall community too much when it comes to nerfs, Sonic and Diddy are always unprotected from the nerfstorm. I can only predict that next patch, bair will do 6% and not kill until 300%

 

[Jasku]

That's opinionated. You probably are never in the position against good players who don't let you get the kill moves you want. Since the nerfs, Sonic's kill moves have basically been reduced to Bair and Fsmash. Upsmash, which was once his strongest kill move, doesn't even kill until around 125+ now.
It's, like everyone else says, pretty sad, actually. Sakurai listens to the overall community too much when it comes to nerfs, Sonic and Diddy are always unprotected from the nerfstorm. I can only predict that next patch, bair will do 6% and not kill until 300%

I actually play against good players. The thing is that it isn't that brutal as you say. Yes, we've been nerfed, but instead of being complaining about it, we should adapt and learn to use our new Sonic. Literally today, I won a tournament with Sonic. I had more troubles than in other tournaments, but it wasn't HARD. Actually, S4nic has a LOT of things that are really broken.

 

[Gregory2590]

Name 5 broken things about Sonic assuming you're talking in terms of OP.

 

[Jasku]

Name 5 broken things about Sonic assuming you're talking in terms of OP.

1. Up air
2. Run speed
3. Side B
4. Down B
5. UP B

 

[Camalange]

We're using the term broken really loosely nowadays, eh?

 

[Crimgan]

Sonic was nowhere near broken prior to his mostly undeserved nerfs. People just complained because apparently its so hard to stop spin dash spam by shielding, throwing a projectile, or grabbing Sonic at the end of spin dash. Sure his back throw was a tad bit strong, but compared to Diddy's ho-hah shenanigans during that patch Sonic was pretty tame. My playstyle with Sonic has and will always be a aggressive playstyle and all these nerfs have greatly hindered my kill options. I agree with Camalange that the term "Broken" is just thrown around towards a character/something that the majority of uneducated people do not understand how to counter and just whine and complain when they lose to it multiple times which then leads to Sakurai listening to them and unjustly nerfing a character while the top tiers go off scott free. This will ruin the metagame if this keeps up and ruin the viability of said characters in said metagame.

 

[Jasku]

I never said S4nic was broken ._.

The thing is you complain about S4nic's nerfs acting like he has been ruined or something, and he's not. He counters the lack of kill options and early kills with his other really broken stuff. And I think that you overreact about S4nic's nerfs.

 

[Crimgan]

Sorry if I came off I bit salty I'm just tired of the Sonic hate that's been going on. Everywhere I go hes called a broken, cancerous, and no-skill character to play it gets frustrating after a while to see your main bashed while also being nerfed at the same time and people still complain. Sonic does indeed have broken stuff but I just hope people realize those broken things do not warrant Sonic on being the broken character that everybody says he is.

 

[Jasku]

I know that feeling bro. I'm a S4nic main aswell.

 

[Camalange]

It's more-so that I think there's a difference between having strong tools versus an option being "broken".

No one's denying that Sonic is still a strong character.

 

[AJDOH]

I actually play against good players. The thing is that it isn't that brutal as you say. Yes, we've been nerfed, but instead of being complaining about it, we should adapt and learn to use our new Sonic. Literally today, I won a tournament with Sonic. I had more troubles than in other tournaments, but it wasn't HARD. Actually, S4nic has a LOT of things that are really broken.

Like what? Sonic? Broken? You're throwing that word around in the wrong place. If you want to discuss broken characters, try the Rosaluma boards or Yoshiboards.
Also, you're demonstrating the part of our community, or basically that part of every community, [excluding Ness, Yoshi, and Luigi, who are relatively nerf free] who assumes that the ones who complain about the nerfs are the ones who cant adapt. Completely wrong. And you're most definitely waaay too optimistic if you don't care that we're being nerfed for no reason. It's only natural that we should get pur jimmies rustled by random RECURRING injustices. And if that wasn't what you meant, then please explain, because that's how it comes off to me.

TL;DR
2nd Sentence - not the issue and is mostly never the issue.
3rd Sentence - Great, so have I.
Last Sentence - That's bull.

And for anyone ready to question my broken examples
Gentle Star and Luma Dair
The fact Yoshi has a spike that autocancels, is hard to tech, leads into guaranteed followups unless you want to suffer the 50/50, and is relatively lagless even if it doesn't autocancel. Heck relatively lagless applies to all of him.
That's as far as I'm going into it, since it's the Sonic Boards.

 

[Jasku]

Like what? Sonic? Broken? You're throwing that word around in the wrong place. If you want to discuss broken characters, try the Rosaluma boards or Yoshiboards.
Also, you're demonstrating the part of our community, or basically that part of every community, [excluding Ness, Yoshi, and Luigi, who are relatively nerf free] who assumes that the ones who complain about the nerfs are the ones who cant adapt. Completely wrong. And you're most definitely waaay too optimistic if you don't care that we're being nerfed for no reason. It's only natural that we should get pur jimmies rustled by random RECURRING injustices. And if that wasn't what you meant, then please explain, because that's how it comes off to me.

TL;DR
2nd Sentence - not the issue and is mostly never the issue.
3rd Sentence - Great, so have I.
Last Sentence - That's bull.

And for anyone ready to question my broken examples
Gentle Star and Luma Dair
The fact Yoshi has a spike that autocancels, is hard to tech, leads into guaranteed followups unless you want to suffer the 50/50, and is relatively lagless even if it doesn't autocancel. Heck relatively lagless applies to all of him.
That's as far as I'm going into it, since it's the Sonic Boards.

As I said before, I never said S4nic is broken. He has a lot of broken stuff, and he's a REALLY good character, so don't act like he's been ruined because they nerfed 2 things. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain, of course you can, but some of you exceed and overreact saying things like: ''I dropped S4nic because he's impossible to play now'' or ''I'll have to change my main because S4nic can't kill now''. Don't overreact, it's not that bad, that's what I'm trying to say.

 

[AJDOH]

As I said before, I never said S4nic is broken. He has a lot of broken stuff,

What.
Isn't that prerequisite for being a broken character...? But either way he doesn't have anything broken. Judging by the commented list above, you're throwing the word around waaaaay past loosely. Especially Up B and Up air.
And, let's be honest. If anyone has quit Sonic from these nerfs, I wouldn't blame them. You're over here saying to adapt, but what's easy for you may not be the same for other people. Especially when they can pick up another character who's less susceptible to changes.
That's actually the reason Mew2king quit Sonic, as he said in an Interview.

 

[Camalange]

I think there are a lot of extremes here.

I would put Yoshi in the same category as Sonic... In terms of them both being strong, solid, (annoying) characters, but not being particularly broken and having clear drawbacks that hold them back from being the toppest of tiers.

I've said it before, but I have no intention of dropping this character. I'd much sooner drop the game altogether. Anyone jumping off the bandwagon is more than welcome to. The nerfs are an obvious issue that can't be ignored, but to neglect the fact that he's still better than more than half the cast is also an issue.

If you're looking purely to win, there are better and more worthwhile characters to learn than Sonic.

If you like Sonic, have the time, and don't suck, you can get pretty far with this character.