The need to main o second a spacie to be successful in pm?

[ep1c_marf]

So i was thinking and just wanted to get everyone's input on this. How important do you guys think it is to main or second a space animal (fox,falco,wolf) to place high in major tournaments?

 

[Y-L]

Not needed at all. There are so many viable characters in PM that a spacie is not necessary.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

So i was thinking and just wanted to get everyone's input on this. How important do you guys think it is to main or second a space animal (fox,falco,wolf) to place high in major tournaments?

Ask Armada.

 

[batistabus]

I misread the title, but I already made this so I guess I'll just post it.

 

[Celestis]

I misread the title, but I already made this so I guess I'll just post it.

... Oh lawl..

 

[Terotrous]

There are a couple characters who have some really awful matchups for which a second character might be useful, but a lot of the cast can fight at least acceptably well against anyone. You definitely don't have to play a space animal if you don't want to, but you probably will have to know how to fight against them.

 

[Lorenzo The Comic]

Space animals are boring. Nair, Bair, Shine, short-hop Blaster all come to mind.

 

[Soft Serve]

Secondary/maining a spacie is not worth it in pm. Compared to melee, the learning curve for spacies is even stricter: Not only will you be learned a really technical character, you will also be getting punished obscenely hard for every mistake by everyone in the cast. Being a Low/mid level spacie main in PM is utter hell, because for the most part people's capitalization on punishes are really bad, except for on spacies.

I also think that the time spend trying to learn a new character would better be put towards learning the bad MU's that your character has.

 

[ep1c_marf]

who would be a good secondary for marth then?

 

[Praxis]

Secondary/maining a spacie is not worth it in pm. Compared to melee, the learning curve for spacies is even stricter: Not only will you be learned a really technical character, you will also be getting punished obscenely hard for every mistake by everyone in the cast. Being a Low/mid level spacie main in PM is utter hell, because for the most part people's capitalization on punishes are really bad, except for on spacies.

I also think that the time spend trying to learn a new character would better be put towards learning the bad MU's that your character has.

I feel like the best use of spacies is to turn off your brain and beat lower skilled players by pure finger inputs so you don't have to expend mental energy in early rounds.

I've been thinking of picking a secondary for something like that because I have burnout/mental fatigue issues. Spacies let you spam fast paced bread and butter stuff that eats lower level players alive.

Maybe I'm better off with Marth or Sheik though.

 

[Lorenzo The Comic]

I don't have a significant secondary in Melee yet. Pikachu is my main, I'm thinking either Luigi, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff or Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[Brim]

Ask Armada.

Stupid question... Does he even come here? LIKE EVER?

 

[Sol0ke]

This isn't Brawl where you have to have an MK to stand a chance of even winning

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Stupid question... Does he even come here? LIKE EVER?

a) Yes

b) Not the point

 

[1FD]

main fox and second falco then play wolf for fun
ITS THE ONLY WAY
WHY DOES THIS THREAD EXIST AND WHY AM I POSTING HERE SOMEONE DELETE LIFE MOD FIX PLZ

 

[Vigilante]

Roy is the best spacie. >.>

 

[DeFish]

I feel like the best use of spacies is to turn off your brain and beat lower skilled players by pure finger inputs so you don't have to expend mental energy in early rounds.

I've been thinking of picking a secondary for something like that because I have burnout/mental fatigue issues. Spacies let you spam fast paced bread and butter stuff that eats lower level players alive.

I actually like using G&W for this. His combos against people that don't DI/tech properly are very easy and very brutal.

 

[Jarbinks9/11]

Spacies are extremely overrated in this game. Not only are they, mechanically and mentally more challenging than any other character in the game (tech skill and a proper balance between pressure and patience are far harder than anything any other character has to offer), but by the nature of their concepts to make as little mistakes as possible makes unfamiliar matchups more difficult and non lenient, especially when compared to other characters. Mario is extremely intuitive and has the bulk to last you long enough in early rounds to adapt to new playstyles. If you do feel the need to pick a spacie as a secondary, which isnt too important in pm, try wold since he is by far the most intuitive and user friendly.

 

[Praxis]

I actually like using G&W for this. His combos against people that don't DI/tech properly are very easy and very brutal.

Any basic guides or suggestions?

 

[Phaiyte]

Literally almost every actual successful figure in this game doesn't use any of them because they realize that they aren't quite as hype as everyone claims. Armada's Pit, Pro's Snake, Sethlon's Roy, like 4-5 Link players, KDJ and Zhime on Zelda, Ken and many others on Marth, M2K goes for a lot of Mario and Mewtwo, whatever. A lot of them ever even hover the selection icons over those characters.

 

[Jarbinks9/11]

Literally almost every actual successful figure in this game doesn't use any of them because they realize that they aren't quite as hype as everyone claims. Armada's Pit, Pro's Snake, Sethlon's Roy, like 4-5 Link players, KDJ and Zhime on Zelda, Ken and many others on Marth, M2K goes for a lot of Mario and Mewtwo, whatever. A lot of them ever even hover the selection icons over those characters.

Thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. They dont play spacies because theyre garbage in pm, not because theyre less hype somehow than a bunch of campy stall characters with op recoveries and no combos. Zelda is the ugliest thing ive ever seen in this game and the people that play her are even uglier. This handicap is the reason why they hate us normal players and try to kill smash bros with their unfun playstyles.

 

[Phaiyte]

Thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. They dont play spacies because theyre garbage in pm, not because theyre less hype somehow than a bunch of campy stall characters with op recoveries and no combos. Zelda is the ugliest thing ive ever seen in this game and the people that play her are even uglier. This handicap is the reason why they hate us normal players and try to kill smash bros with their unfun playstyles.

I never said they were garbage and recoveries are not OP. You just suck at edge guarding like everyone else that makes that complaint.

 

[Jarbinks9/11]

I never said they were garbage and recoveries are not OP. You just suck at edge guarding like everyone else that makes that complaint.

Just because you can beat 12 year old ivysaur players on netplay that cant utilize his strengths correctly doesnt make the character or its recovery any less broken. Plus ive heard strong bad and his church followers dabble on about how fox is soooooo hard to edgegaurd meaning that i dont have to listen to anybody that tries to defend op brawl snorefest recoveries. Every scrub that tells people to lrn2play doesnt have any experience handling this bs and plays characters like sonic and mewtwo which are the prime abusers of these aids gameplay mechanics. Telling people that a character that you use isnt overpowered makes you a hippocrote and a disgusting beast that causes girls' overies to implode upon sight

 

[Strong Badam]

Spacies are extremely overrated in this game. Not only are they, mechanically and mentally more challenging than any other character in the game (tech skill and a proper balance between pressure and patience are far harder than anything any other character has to offer), but by the nature of their concepts to make as little mistakes as possible makes unfamiliar matchups more difficult and non lenient, especially when compared to other characters. Mario is extremely intuitive and has the bulk to last you long enough in early rounds to adapt to new playstyles. If you do feel the need to pick a spacie as a secondary, which isnt too important in pm, try wold since he is by far the most intuitive and user friendly.

so how is 1st and 2nd overrating them when fox & falco are best and second best

usually overrating means that you think they're actually worse than most people think but you'd have to be silly to think they aren't the best.

 

[Jarbinks9/11]

so how is 1st and 2nd overrating them when fox & falco are best and second best

usually overrating means that you think they're actually worse than most people think but you'd have to be silly to think they aren't the best.

I dunno man most of these characters play thenselves. I can set my controller down on my lap to play dk and the analog stick will move on its own to do cargo uthrow > uair combos. A character that lets me upload fanfictions to my tumblr account and knit socks with my feet is infinitely more top tier than one that requires you to practice tech skill 4 hours a day for years in your basement.

 

[CyberZixx]

I dunno man most of these characters play thenselves. I can set my controller down on my lap to play dk and the analog stick will move on its own to do cargo uthrow > uair combos. A character that lets me upload fanfictions to my tumblr account and knit socks with my feet is infinitely more top tier than one that requires you to practice tech skill 4 hours a day for years in your basement.

1. The argument that the characters have "autocombos" and everyone is too easy is just not true and has been talked to death.
2. Tier do not take how hard tech skill is into account for character ranking.
3. DK is harder to do well with than Fox
4. People grossly over rate how much tech skill is needed to play fox.

 

[Jarbinks9/11]

1. The argument that the characters have "autocombos" and everyone is too easy is just not true and has been talked to death.
2. Tier do not take how hard tech skill is into account for character ranking.
3. DK is harder to do well with than Fox
4. People grossly over rate how much tech skill is needed to play fox.

This must be one of strong bads alts because all of your points are heavily biased project brawler jargon that is actually incorrect. If you arent utilizing fox's tech to anything near his peak then youd be better off playing a character that gives you a greater reward for such a filthy tech skill. Not using fox's techniques is just the same as neglecting any other bread and butter tool other characters have. If you arent fast your punishes will go from weak to cardboard and your neutral game, the main thing that keeps fox from sucking, will be no better than any other characters. Winning neutral 70% or so of the time matters little when he only gets marginal rewards and the other 30% he gets punished to the end of the world through numerous ways (chain grabbing combos gimping tech chasing etc etc). Lasers shine gimps and usmash can only take you so far and no legitimate pro should be complaining that they have trouble beating a non spazzy fox.

Ill give you that dk is weak but hes not that bad and since strong bad owns pm its obvious that hes not buffing dk so he can cry about falco and have something to use as an excuse for his terribad results.

Everyone is too easy and has more autocombos. While autocombos as a concept are bs its not a lie to say that pm characters require less precision than someone like marth, and every character ive played feels more sheik than sheik herself with all of the free followups im getting. You cant tell me that ivysaurs nair is not automatic when the move ignores di of the opponent and carries themwherever you take them.

Also just because a character is "worse" than another doesnt excuse them from being easy. Fox requires more practice and consistency, and matchup knowledge because he gets rekt harder than anyone else for mistakes. All this effort is not really worth it when i can accomplish the same thing with ivysaur, never having to worry about missing techs, or failing edgegaurds or recoveries, or flubbing a punish, with a more static neutral game that requires little knowledge of other characters and allows more time and leniency to figure out opponents.

 

[Y-L]

Most people good with melee top tiers just play melee.

 

[Strong Badam]

Please ignore the troll and continue with your lives. Dude's name is "jarjar binks 9/11" like really.

 

[MLGF]

But Melee doesn't have Wolf.
And Wolf is the coolest spaciee.

I mean did you see his alt costume?
It has a pirate eye-patch.

Insta main.

 

[Phaiyte]

words

You're an actual idiot and your response to me literally had hardly anything to do with anything I said. Maybe if you actually took some time to learn the game instead of troll the internet you'd see that it's not hard /at all/ to edgegaurd Fox or any tether character. On top of which, no characters have 100% auto combos unless your DI is complete garbage.

 

[DeFish]

Any basic guides or suggestions?

My first lesson on G&W was to get bodied by Dakpo at Apex and try to remember what happened afterwards.

G&W juggles people insanely well, and it's very easy to use uair and up-b to chain weak hits into nair or fair to set up edgegaurds. Uthrow is usually preferred to start combos, but if you notice people can't tech than dthrow -> dtilt becomes a very strong option. One of the great things about G&W is that the animations for all of his throws look identical, so you have a better chance of catchings someone in a DI trap if you mix it up. I like G&W as a secondary because he doesn't have a huge array of unique tech, and he rewards good juggling and fundamentals pretty nicely.

As a Diddy main, I also appreciate characters with a goofier aesthetic and top-tier taunts to cancel.

 

[Brim]

Roy is the best spacie. >.>

This. Also, I thought spacies were kind of a hated thing in PM...I hear so much smack about 'em.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

This. Also, I thought spacies were kind of a hated thing in PM...I hear so much smack about 'em.

And yet somehow everyone loves Wolf. Fancy that.

 

[Brim]

And yet somehow everyone loves Wolf. Fancy that.

I don't classify Wolf as a spacy - don't quote me on that, I could be wrong, but then again it could be another reason I'm a fan of Wolf. In my opinion a spacy is a character that can't necessarily go in guns-a-blazing which is why I don't consider Wolf a spacy; a space-based character in my opinion needs to not miss a single hit when he goes on the attack or even defensive, or his entire game plan can be ruined. He can definitely go bat-crazy, my main can't do that nearly to any extent of Wolf - since he actually has a few decent approach options. Roy just can't approach easily without tremendous tech-skill, and I'm guessing you saw the Mango Vs Sethlon match. Kudos to Sethlon in that fight though.

 

[DeFish]

I don't classify Wolf as a spacy - don't quote me on that, I could be wrong, but then again it could be another reason I'm a fan of Wolf. In my opinion a spacy is a character that can't necessarily go in guns-a-blazing which is why I don't consider Wolf a spacy; a space-based character in my opinion needs to not miss a single hit when he goes on the attack or even defensive, or his entire game plan can be ruined. He can definitely go bat-crazy, my main can't do that nearly to any extent of Wolf - since he actually has a few decent approach options. Roy just can't approach easily without tremendous tech-skill, and I'm guessing you saw the Mango Vs Sethlon match. Kudos to Sethlon in that fight though.

The term "spacie" is actually derived from the term "Space Animal", meaning a character from the Star Fox franchise.

 

[Brim]

The term "spacie" is actually derived from the term "Space Animal", meaning a character from the Star Fox franchise.

Well . . . That's not what I meant, but yes I guess that applies.

 

[XalchemistX]

Roy is the best spacie. >.>

Samus and olimar is the best spacie...... get it? Because there actually in space?.... Nvm

 

[1FD]

Mario Galaxy means he's from space too

 

[Phan7om]

Kirby is teh bess spacie!

But yeah seriously. I actually agree on the fact that spacies are overrated. They only are the best because people say they are, technically we dont know who is the best yet... basically what overrated means. If more top players played other characters besides the Melee top tiers we would see otherwise.