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The Most Underdeveloped Characters

Yogi Backair

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
54
So guys, what characters do you think have the most room to still grow? Take for example how much can be done with Yoshi in competent hands, then imagine that for someone else. Could a Ness go that far with all his jankiness? Mewtwo? Personally I think that Peach's meta game is underlooked, and with her already being a rather unpopular character I'm not sure how long it will take for her to come into her own. What are your opinions on chars and the strategies you think could be used to do it?
 

necroTaxonomist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
127
Location
Georgia
I think Ness has some good traits, and maybe somebody could do some cool stuff with him.
I feel like, unfortunately, a lot of low-tier characters aren't very developed because although they have good traits, they have one particularly huge flaw that makes them unviable (like how Ness has a ridiculously gimpable recovery).
But you know that baseball bat sweetspot is pretty badass.
 

Twunt

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
25
Location
Richmond, VA
I always thought the potential for the Ice Climbers has really been overlooked, leaving them a bit underdeveloped. I feel in time someone savvy enough could really showcase how overpowering controlling two characters can be. Wobbling is just scratching the surface... using the two to cover each other's times of vulnerability, setting up combos, baiting with Nana, exploiting the unique hitstun/shieldstun mechanics. I feel the potential is certainly there. It really could be a 2v1 if played right (despite the 2 being mediocre characters individually at best).

I'd love to see a TAS demo of what their potential could be. :)
 

valakmtnsmash4

Smash Ace
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yathshiv
MOOTOO :mewtwomelee:

That's all you need to know. he is so underdeveloped it's not even funny. He has some big flaws, but his wave dash is in the top 5 and it can be used effectivley
 

Plunder

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None. Everyone's pretty much figured out.

4 years ago the only ones I thought were undeveloped were G&W, Pikachu, and Yoshi. G&W still might have some stuff left to discover, but his flaws and strengths are pretty much common knowledge and he's used optimally.
 
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pagedMov

Smash Apprentice
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Jan 21, 2015
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168
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Atlanta, Georgia
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pagedMov
imo the word 'underdeveloped' doesn't really describe any melee character. The game has been out for 14 years, if there was some ground breaking strategy or tech that only a low tier could do, it would have been discovered by now.
 

Yogi Backair

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
54
None. Everyone's pretty much figured out.

4 years ago the only ones I thought were undeveloped were G&W, Pikachu, and Yoshi. G&W still might have some stuff left to discover, but his flaws and strengths are pretty much common knowledge and he's used optimally.
That's just utterly false I'm afraid, for example Amsa has done a lot of metags me development for Yoshi, and to say that every character is played with full optimization of all tech skill and potential is a bit far fetched. Even with the top 8 there are plenty of things that people are doing to optimize play at the highest level, I'd say until people are TASish in their ability then no one has fully developed a character.
 

EarthCrash

Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
152
Location
Miami, Florida.
Personally I think that Peach's meta game is underlooked, and with her already being a rather unpopular character I'm not sure how long it will take for her to come into her own. What are your opinions on chars and the strategies you think could be used to do it?
Peach is still seen as a very viable character, regardless of Armada's decision to duel main fox.
 

o0silentshadow0o

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
55
Location
California, San Rafael
In my opinion there are plenty of underdeveloped characters with more potential, some being Peach for her Turnip game fully tapped, and Sheik for her many under used moves.

Though the one which I think is the most underdeveloped with serious potential is Samus. She has all the tools to become a S tier character, varying from an insane Crouch Cancel (allowing good punishes), very heavy weight ( survives much longer), extreme floatyness (making getting combos on her very difficult, survives horizontal attacks much longer, and most importantly kills many grab throw set ups such as Fox's up throw Up-Air), amazing recovery (so good it's better then many smash 4 recoveries xD), a good wave dash, crazy good tilts (which hit hard and plenty of range), viable smash attacks (more specific her down smash, which is faster then most tilts, and hits very, very hard, while suffering close to no ending lad), extremely versatile aerials (With the single hit aerials allowing for plenty of range. knock back and a continuous hit-box; with the multi hit aerials seeming to be unbeatable, while extending combos). Up-B (has 2 frames of invincibility, making Up-B out of shield safe, while killing many approach options), Down-B (as well very versatile, it is used for recovering, eliminating approach options, edge guarding, and gimps), Neutral-B (AKA charge shot is a good 25% dealing, hard hitting kill move that is fairly fast), Side-B (her missiles -again another versatile move- has many uses, some being edge-guarding, approaching, and suppressing approach options), a wall jump (a rare feature for floatys that extends her capabilities), and don't even get me started on her leash.

In all Samus is an extremely versatile character, who has tools for virtually everything. Sadly she is shied upon do to her poor roll, and some what slow grab.
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
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11,536
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The back country, GA
How can any of you say peach?? There are plenty of characters that haven't had a player max them out to the same extent that Armada has done so with peach. Peach is very much developed, relatively speaking.
 
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Yogi Backair

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
54
How can any of you say peach?? There are plenty of characters that haven't had a player max them out to the same extent that Armada has done so with peach. Peach is very much developed.
Have you ever seen armada use double jump lands consitantly?
 

Yogi Backair

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
54
ONE tech? Lol. That doesn't negate the fact that Armada has pushed peach incredibly far. Not many characters have an Armada, if you know what I mean.
Have you ever seen armada:
Double jump pivot
Double jump cancel out of shield
Double jump Waveland on/off stage/platforms
Knit for turnips
Pull turnips midair off ledge?
And no, not many characters have an Armada, the point of the thread was to ask which characters have the best chance of being good if they get one.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Have you ever seen armada:
Double jump pivot
Double jump cancel out of shield
Double jump Waveland on/off stage/platforms
Knit for turnips
Pull turnips midair off ledge?
And no, not many characters have an Armada, the point of the thread was to ask which characters have the best chance of being good if they get one.
Title of thread: The MOST underdeveloped characters. This is why I'm surprised at Peach being mentioned, as she is far from the MOST underdeveloped. Should be easy to understand.
 

ᴠanilla

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
23
I wouldn't say he's underdeveloped, but people really sleep on Doc. He can be brutal to fight if you don't know his quirks.

As for an underdeveloped character, I'd say that Game and Watch might have a bit of potential if someone were to really focus their energy on developing him. I bet he'd feel a lot better if he could L-cancel all of his aerials, but there's nothing we can do about that.
 

Yogi Backair

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
54
Title of thread: The MOST underdeveloped characters. This is why I'm surprised at Peach being mentioned, as she is far from the MOST underdeveloped. Should be easy to understand.
Yes it should be, I'm not trying to get people to vote for THE most underdeveloped character, I'm just trying to get people to discuss advanced tech that isn't utilized in the character. Peach certainly has this, as does every othe character I'm sure. If peach isn't played by the best peach in the world with full tech skill utilized, then she isn't fully developed is she?
 

Yogi Backair

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
54
I wouldn't say he's underdeveloped, but people really sleep on Doc. He can be brutal to fight if you don't know his quirks.

As for an underdeveloped character, I'd say that Game and Watch might have a bit of potential if someone were to really focus their energy on developing him. I bet he'd feel a lot better if he could L-cancel all of his aerials, but there's nothing we can do about that.
Yeah I feel game and watch, he can do some funny looking foxtrots if you time them correctly lol
 

Plunder

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If peach is still "that" underdeveloped...... then God help us all and I quit melee.


 

o0silentshadow0o

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
55
Location
California, San Rafael
Oh yes, I forgot to mention Luigi, and Ice-Climbers as an underdeveloped character. Those 2 can be very scary opponents, but their sadly overlooked. Though I don't think Luigi can be a S tier (instead high A tier), I do fully believe Ice-Climbers has the full capability to become a S tier as well. Having Nana/Popo desynced can truly make the battle a 2 Vs. 1. The only issue is that it takes A LOT of tech skill and mental effort. This also links to my thought on why people aren't so good with Ice-Climbers now is because there to predictable, all they want is to wobble; yes it's a good technique, but solely relying on that creates predictability. They need to add diversity to make more use of the tools they have; plus since every one goes for Nana, in a way Ice-Climbers have 2 lives, but that's a different story. lol
 

Racuncai

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
57
Characters like cap, ice climbers, yoshi, luigi, fox, and falco (all of them have unused techs) need a lot more work to be put on them, and the game still have some unused tech to be implemented in the meta (Z powershield, option selects, better usage of auto cancels etc).
 

eviljoeybonkers

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Jul 24, 2015
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I have to say the Mario Bros, especially Luigi.

He may have good tournament representation as of now, but he still has a lot of room to grow.
 

Danny of AD 1

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
129
The underdeveloped are as follows
Captain falcon Dr mario Sam us ganondorf mario young link link donkey kong zelda roy m2 Ness and pichu practically no one mains them anymore and with few people who secondary captain falcon I don't see any of them getting past where they are in fact I honestly think some of the pros who have abandoned these guys might be less skilled now than when they did main them to be honest nothing would be better than if we had more players like qerb and m2k who haven't abandoned these guys
Like I said though with all due respect I am not impressed by hungrybox mango or axe they use marth jigglypuff and peach respectively
I am impressed by qerb who mains mr game and watch amsa who mains yoshi and m2k who like me doesn't have a main
As a guy who never mains the current top 5 in any game i will say that with so many people saying luigi pikachu and ice climbers i will say luigi is slightly overrated pikachu is mildly overrated and the ice climbers are extremely overrated
No one is impressed by jigglypuff peach marth ice climbers fox falco or shiek anymore no one is fooled by the mass abandonment
If a pro wants to be a pro main the characters that are considered horrid not what gets you the best results at tournaments
 

zero sum

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
144
falcon/sheik/puff are the least developed relevant characters imo. i think there's still a lot to be done with every character except maybe peach and even then there's probably still some stuff you seldom, if ever, see armada do. every character can be fleshed out more but other than yoshi i don't think there's any character that would see a significant jump in the tier list. probably one or two places at absolute most for any given character.
 

Yogi Backair

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
54
The underdeveloped are as follows
Captain falcon Dr mario Sam us ganondorf mario young link link donkey kong zelda roy m2 Ness and pichu practically no one mains them anymore and with few people who secondary captain falcon I don't see any of them getting past where they are in fact I honestly think some of the pros who have abandoned these guys might be less skilled now than when they did main them to be honest nothing would be better than if we had more players like qerb and m2k who haven't abandoned these guys
Like I said though with all due respect I am not impressed by hungrybox mango or axe they use marth jigglypuff and peach respectively
I am impressed by qerb who mains mr game and watch amsa who mains yoshi and m2k who like me doesn't have a main
As a guy who never mains the current top 5 in any game i will say that with so many people saying luigi pikachu and ice climbers i will say luigi is slightly overrated pikachu is mildly overrated and the ice climbers are extremely overrated
No one is impressed by jigglypuff peach marth ice climbers fox falco or shiek anymore no one is fooled by the mass abandonment
If a pro wants to be a pro main the characters that are considered horrid not what gets you the best results at tournaments
Ok, well I think the way that you worded this is assuming that all of us are hipsters, when in fact a lot of us ARE impressed by extremely good players playing well with good characters, there isn't anything wrong with anyone's choice of main "not maining the top 5" doesn't really, by virtue of itself, make you're way of doing it any better, if anything it just makes it easier to give out Johns when you lose. You should also read through your post before you post it, considering you said that you respect m2k for not having a main, but he has 3 mains: marth, fox and sheik. 3 characters you also said you have no respect for....hmm....
 

Yogi Backair

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
54
falcon/sheik/puff are the least developed relevant characters imo. i think there's still a lot to be done with every character except maybe peach and even then there's probably still some stuff you seldom, if ever, see armada do. every character can be fleshed out more but other than yoshi i don't think there's any character that would see a significant jump in the tier list. probably one or two places at absolute most for any given character.
People keep saying peach lol peach has tons of room to grow!
 

Plunder

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M2k clearly uses low tiers to troll players he doesn't respect (or that he believes he has a severe skill deficit over).

This is like saying someone respects ******* when they hire them to dance around in clown outfits at their kids birthday party.

M2K has no delusions that he could ever main a lower tier and expect to win a national or even get close to top placings.
 
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Danny of AD 1

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
129
Plunder I used to do the same thing on call of duty but to be honest there's nothing wrong with m2k and his trolling videos
At least he uses lower tiers after all
Maybe that's what we need in melee more people being screwed with by bottom tiers I mean I placed mk and ice climbers in my bottom tier in brawl I main mr gnw in 3ds and gnw is considered bottom 4 in sm4sh
But I honestly think people like hungrybox armada and axe sold themselves out m2k doesn't seem like that
Overall people think brawl is bad because it's casual but melee could be the next black ops 2
 

Mc.Rad

Smash Lord
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Nov 15, 2014
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Rock Hill, SC
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Plunder I used to do the same thing on call of duty but to be honest there's nothing wrong with m2k and his trolling videos
At least he uses lower tiers after all
Maybe that's what we need in melee more people being screwed with by bottom tiers I mean I placed mk and ice climbers in my bottom tier in brawl I main mr gnw in 3ds and gnw is considered bottom 4 in sm4sh
But I honestly think people like hungrybox armada and axe sold themselves out m2k doesn't seem like that
Overall people think brawl is bad because it's casual but melee could be the next black ops 2
Well people hated Brawl because, it was really ****ty. People hate Smash 4 though because it's more casual than Melee (and i've even seen some crazy people try to defend Smash 64 even though really it only has nostalgia going for it.)
But, low tiers may be able to develop more. I mean look at Jigglypuff. He/She/They/It/Xhe/Unspecified Gender went from E tier to S tier.
 

redcometchar

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 19, 2015
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378
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Side 3
I would say g&w and zelda because they are unfinished characters
Also ganon becaue he is a pretty thoughtless falcon clone, could have been alot more creatively designed if the team had more time
 
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Character growth really depends upon the player. For that matter I believe every characters beyond Fox and Falco are underdeveloped.
 
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