The most efficent way to train

[brwnhawaiin]

I just recently got a gamecube and melee, and really want to be good at it so i can play my friends at MSU. They have been playing for a couple years, but none of them wavedash, or do any of the advanced techniques. I was wondering if u guys had any advice on the best way to learn how to play smash, seeing as i im going into the game knowing about all of the advanced techniques. I practiced wavedashing for a day, and i can do it, just not in the heat of combat. Should i just start playing against computers, and just get good at the basic gameplay, and then go back and try to master thigns like wavedash,teching, and shffling. or should i try to master all the complicated techniques first, then start just learning the basic feel of the game.

 

[Overswarm]

Make sure you learn all the advanced techniques as you train.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8419325533634566278&q=advanced+combat+techniques

After that, it's just about learning how to string together attacks, and how to create combos out of grabs. You learn all that, all the technical stuff, from playing level 1 CPUs.

Then you're just going to have to play against people to learn to incorporate advanced techniques fully.

 

[Samael_78]

for endurance, i play all-star on hard because very hard is just about surviving. but for regular training, i just do training mode and try to to find weaknesses in certain characters (like ganon's shield doesnt cover the lower part of his legs) and monitor the actual physics of different attacks and movements

 

[CWolf20]

Don't worry about advanced techniques until you at least have a grasp of what the game is about. Be ready and able to do many of the basic techniques on command, then begin to work on shffl'ing. The far and away most important "advanced" technique you should know is L-cancelling, though. That alone makes your game much much better. Wavedashing is good, but unnecessary, short hop and fast fall are highly recommended, even if you're not using a character that needs to short hop much.

 

[brwnhawaiin]

Don't worry about advanced techniques until you at least have a grasp of what the game is about. Be ready and able to do many of the basic techniques on command, then begin to work on shffl'ing. The far and away most important "advanced" technique you should know is L-cancelling, though. That alone makes your game much much better. Wavedashing is good, but unnecessary, short hop and fast fall are highly recommended, even if you're not using a character that needs to short hop much.

yea, L cancel is what ive been practicing the most while i play computers. just practicing taping the l button all the time. im still not used to it, ill catch myself not pressing it, but soon it will be habit. even if i dont get the timing right, i still try it on everything. and teching also. and before and after every smash training i do, i practice wavedash for a good 15 min. i went from getting so mad that i cant do it, to being able to do it, just not in battle.

 

[Scar]

for endurance, i play all-star on hard because very hard is just about surviving. but for regular training, i just do training mode and try to to find weaknesses in certain characters (like ganon's shield doesnt cover the lower part of his legs) and monitor the actual physics of different attacks and movements

In 1p and training mode, the C-Stick controls the camera, but in Melee mode it does smash attacks when standing, and aerials when... you're in the air.

Using the C-Stick instead of the A button in the air makes a huge difference, so just be aware that 1p mode has certain restrictions on it that you won't find in Melee.

 

[brwnhawaiin]

Make sure you learn all the advanced techniques as you train.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8419325533634566278&q=advanced+combat+techniques

After that, it's just about learning how to string together attacks, and how to create combos out of grabs. You learn all that, all the technical stuff, from playing level 1 CPUs.

Then you're just going to have to play against people to learn to incorporate advanced techniques fully.

that is a great video! thanks alot.

 

[brwnhawaiin]

In 1p and training mode, the C-Stick controls the camera, but in Melee mode it does smash attacks when standing, and aerials when... you're in the air.

Using the C-Stick instead of the A button in the air makes a huge difference, so just be aware that 1p mode has certain restrictions on it that you won't find in Melee.

exactly, i do most of my "training" on vs mode against lvl 1 comp. not in the actual training mode, because of the lack of c-stick.

 

[shadenexus18]

I would go on All Star mode, challenge 3 computers at a time on lvl 9, or go on Cruel Melee. That's all the training you'll ever need.

 

[brwnhawaiin]

I would go on All Star mode, challenge 3 computers at a time on lvl 9, or go on Cruel Melee. That's all the training you'll ever need.

do u have to unlock all star mode and cruel melee, cuz i cant find them anywhere.

 

[Junpappy]

I would go on All Star mode, challenge 3 computers at a time on lvl 9, or go on Cruel Melee. That's all the training you'll ever need.

That's the worst way to train.....ever.

Practice against other players or against lv 1 computers.

 

[AverageScalp]

Yes, All-Star Mode and Cruel Melee have to be unlocked, but don't play those for the sake of practicing for competing against humans, all those will teach you is how to exploit the computer's weaknesses... which no person would ever do.

To be honest, I used to completely **** computers, but ever since I've gotten into competitive smashing, I still beat them, but I don't do nearly as well. Mindgames just don't work on comps, heh.

 

[kirbstir]

I play against 3 level 9s on a team with team attack off

They're Lvl 9 Luigi's

 

[Leoneri]

@kirbstir You don't think that's good training, do you?

On topic, just practice against level 1 computers and humans, fighting level 9s is bad for you. Getting used to fighting against inhuman reflexes will mess up your timing when it comes to a real match.

Your name...brwnhawaiin, would you happen to live in Hawaii? If so, which island?

 

[DemonicShadows]

Train with level 1 CPUs just to get the basic concepts down. Try Training if all else fails. That way, you can practice wavedashing, standing grabs, waveshining (if you're using Fox or Falco), the SHL or SHDL (again, if you're Fox or Falco). L-cancelling and Shffling could wait until you nail these.

...That's what I did.

 

[brwnhawaiin]

@kirbstir You don't think that's good training, do you?

On topic, just practice against level 1 computers and humans, fighting level 9s is bad for you. Getting used to fighting against inhuman reflexes will mess up your timing when it comes to a real match.

Your name...brwnhawaiin, would you happen to live in Hawaii? If so, which island?

no, im actually from michigan. but lots of ppl think i look hawaiin. and yes, recently ive just started practicing against lv1 comps, getting down combos, l cancel. to me, shfflc is sooo hard.

 

[Superstar]

Actually, it did not take me long to learn SHFFL. Make sure to first know the original techs that make it up to 70%+ consistency [as you SHFFL, you will improve for that 100% consistency]. Then choose Mario, and go to training mode, and practice shffled neutral airs.

Remember to set the time to 1/4, and work your way up.

 

[Doc_Holiday]

Actually, it did not take me long to learn SHFFL. Make sure to first know the original techs that make it up to 70%+ consistency [as you SHFFL, you will improve for that 100% consistency]. Then choose Mario, and go to training mode, and practice shffled neutral airs.

Remember to set the time to 1/4, and work your way up.

Why would you need to set the time to 1/4? That seems like a stupid idea to me.

 

[Petewilcutyou]

this is what you do. beat the game if u havent. and then pratice adv techs vs lvl9 cpus and over time u should get it down.

 

[Aiko]

this is what you do. beat the game if u havent. and then pratice adv techs vs lvl9 cpus and over time u should get it down.

ok i'm getting pretty sick of people saying the best training is level 9 coms I will now state the truth... *ahem*

DO NOT FIGHT LEVEL 9 COMS TO TRAIN!

Anybody that tells you to do so will almost certainly lack any tournament standards. Level 9 coms have inhuman reactions (such as perfect powershielding) and are nothing like a human player. For starters they don't learn and they have major flaws such as walking into smashes, or certain habits. Don't believe me? Play a level 9 ness on Jungle Japes, and at the start, if you don't move, he will kill himself, everytime.

As several people have mentioned before, the best way to train is to go on training mode for techs that don't require c-stick and vs level 1's for SHFFLs and any other technique.


And to anybody else who will suggest level 9's, just save yourself the embarressment and announce you're a n00b. Its much more dignifying than giving crap advice.

 

[Leoneri]

I haven't mastered any techs, at all. But I still have the sense to know that it's bad to go against level 9s. I can't really practice as much as I want, because my game will randomly say disc cannot be read if I do anything besides Training Mode or Melee Mode, and it won't let me play with humans or it'll shut off too. But I just ordered a new copy, so I should be able to play at will soon

*Goes off to Jungle Japes with a level 9 test to see if above post is true.*

 

[Aiko]

tell us when you've done it

 

[Negative Zero]

First off: Forget the advanced techniques. As long as you take your training with a grain of salt, level 9s really aren't so bad. As long as you don't learn to take advantage of their computer stupidities (Kirbies not getting out of stone until it automatically happens, Peach not closing her parasol ever, Ganon always up+Bing if you aren't on the ground, and the fact that all computers instantly grab if you hit a shoulder button near them), and you remember that projectiles don't work, you can learn things.

My point is this; Don't start off with advanced techniques. Start with the basics. If you use Falcon, you should learn how to running short hop knee before you learn how to moonwalk. If you play Ice Climbers, learn how to wavedash into a downsmash before you learn to wobble. Advanced techs are important, but without the basics, you aren't beating anyone.

 

[Negative Zero]

Just remember to work on the basics first. If you play as Falcon, it doesn't matter if you know how to moonwalk into sliding up+B edgehogs - if you can't short hop knee, you aren't going to get much of anywhere.

 

[Banksya]

play against people , how about that. find someone, and play them.

 

[kirbstir]

ok i'm getting pretty sick of people saying the best training is level 9 coms I will now state the truth... *ahem*

DO NOT FIGHT LEVEL 9 COMS TO TRAIN!

Anybody that tells you to do so will almost certainly lack any tournament standards. Level 9 coms have inhuman reactions (such as perfect powershielding) and are nothing like a human player. For starters they don't learn and they have major flaws such as walking into smashes, or certain habits. Don't believe me? Play a level 9 ness on Jungle Japes, and at the start, if you don't move, he will kill himself, everytime.

As several people have mentioned before, the best way to train is to go on training mode for techs that don't require c-stick and vs level 1's for SHFFLs and any other technique.


And to anybody else who will suggest level 9's, just save yourself the embarressment and announce you're a n00b. Its much more dignifying than giving crap advice.

That's why you don't train against lvl 9 nesses. You train against lvl 9 luigis.

 

[Leoneri]

Yes, learn the basics first, but don't train on level 9. You may not think so but you are getting used to fighting them subconsciously. I agree with learning the basics first though. Learn to wavedash and any other basics that are important for your character, like SHL for Falco, and i've heard about desyncing for IC I guess.. I believe you use Shiek, brwnhawaiin? I don't really know much about her, but say you are going to learn to shffl. make sure you have a high consistency with shortfalling first. Then shffing, then shffling. At least, that's my opinion.

 

[petre]

First off: Forget the advanced techniques. As long as you take your training with a grain of salt, level 9s really aren't so bad. As long as you don't learn to take advantage of their computer stupidities (Kirbies not getting out of stone until it automatically happens, Peach not closing her parasol ever, Ganon always up+Bing if you aren't on the ground, and the fact that all computers instantly grab if you hit a shoulder button near them), and you remember that projectiles don't work, you can learn things.

My point is this; Don't start off with advanced techniques. Start with the basics. If you use Falcon, you should learn how to running short hop knee before you learn how to moonwalk. If you play Ice Climbers, learn how to wavedash into a downsmash before you learn to wobble. Advanced techs are important, but without the basics, you aren't beating anyone.

just to let you know, short hopping and wavedashing are both considered advanced techs. and no, you dont want to 'forget' advanced techs for now. if you make them second nature now, they will be that much easier to incorporate into your game when you play real players. things like shuffling and wavedashing especially, because these are technical skills, and dont really need another human to practice with. however, once you have these skills down to the point where you can do them freely (and by then you should have the general melee feel down as well) then you should play against humans and learn WHEN you should use these techs. as youre practicing, mess around with other characters too, so you can see what they are capable of, what their fast and strong moves are, so you can learn what to watch out for. i have a couple nooby friends that sometimes come over to play smash, they are all right skillwise (they dont use advanced techs though...), however only with the one or two characters they use...if they ever pick a different character they have very little knowledge as to what that character's moves are, and how that character is played. (just yesterday, my one friend asked me if he should try using GaW up+b to help recover...simply because he has barely, if ever, used GaW). so dont forget to learn about your opponents as well. you dont want to be killed by an attack you didnt even know existed.

 

[Its me Mario]

ok i'm getting pretty sick of people saying the best training is level 9 coms I will now state the truth... *ahem*

DO NOT FIGHT LEVEL 9 COMS TO TRAIN!

Anybody that tells you to do so will almost certainly lack any tournament standards. Level 9 coms have inhuman reactions (such as perfect powershielding) and are nothing like a human player. For starters they don't learn and they have major flaws such as walking into smashes, or certain habits. Don't believe me? Play a level 9 ness on Jungle Japes, and at the start, if you don't move, he will kill himself, everytime.

As several people have mentioned before, the best way to train is to go on training mode for techs that don't require c-stick and vs level 1's for SHFFLs and any other technique.


And to anybody else who will suggest level 9's, just save yourself the embarressment and announce you're a n00b. Its much more dignifying than giving crap advice.

He is right it is pointless trying to get training for tournys against lvl 9 cpu

 

[brwnhawaiin]

yea, ive been training against lv1 comps for combos and goin in training for l cancel, wavedash. and i play against lvl 9 comps for a bit to try to use my techniques in a practical/fast way. but i dont train against lvl 9 comps, after recently playin against some friends, lvl 9 comps are useless to play against besides gaining speed.

 

[Superstar]

Why would you need to set the time to 1/4? That seems like a stupid idea to me.

I said that to learn shffl, first set the speed in training mode to 1/4, so you can see each individual part. then once you get used to 1/4, speed up to 1/2, and learn at the slightly faster speed. Increase to 1/1 and continue practicing. For me, it was easy learning with Mario's ANA.

I also did this to learn double missle and wavedash as well. Also, in 1/4 time, it is easier to see the L-cancel, and you will not be bewildered by the speed.

 

[KevinM]

This question has been answered like approximately 1 million times.

1. If you have any smashers that are around your skill or slightly better train with them since human's do unpredictable things and DI correctly.

2. If no humans are available to play then you work on fighting a level one or plugging in two controllers going into infinite time and working on Techs.

3. Search Function FTW

 

[Leoneri]

Wow, Ness really does kill himself But you train on level 9s for speed? I wouldn't even do that. You'll get used to inhuman speed and maybe block too early/attack to early when facing your friends.

 

[Giggidax]

Make sure you learn all the advanced techniques as you train.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8419325533634566278&q=advanced+combat+techniques

After that, it's just about learning how to string together attacks, and how to create combos out of grabs. You learn all that, all the technical stuff, from playing level 1 CPUs.

Then you're just going to have to play against people to learn to incorporate advanced techniques fully.

THERE LISTEN TO THat quote. people have said similar things but this basically sums it ALL up. dont listen to any of that "train with lvl 9's" bull**** because that stuff is no good. the only reason one should ever play level 9's is to warm up ur fingers for intensive shffl, wavedash, etc practice against lvl 1's.

 

[kirbstir]

Lvl 9 Luigi's are quite possibly the greatest training dummies next to the Lvl 9 Ganondorfs.

 

[skip430]

A good way to train for L-Cancelling os to play as fox in training mode, against someone like link, and jump up, down A, L-Cancel, then shine. If you L-Cancelled then the move will come us as a combo, if you did not L-Cancel, the the last move (the shine) will come up as a 1-hit combo doing only 4 damage. Do that till you can get it regularly.

 

[brwnhawaiin]

A good way to train for L-Cancelling os to play as fox in training mode, against someone like link, and jump up, down A, L-Cancel, then shine. If you L-Cancelled then the move will come us as a combo, if you did not L-Cancel, the the last move (the shine) will come up as a 1-hit combo doing only 4 damage. Do that till you can get it regularly.

but isnt the timing different for each character. u might become good at l canceling with fox, but what if u play with marth or sheik or something. or am i wrong, and Lcanceling is the same timing for everyone? also in training u cant use the cstick, which sucks.

 

[brickman]

I find a very good way to practice l canceling is to select your character, have a controller in another port and make your opponent a human. Make it a timed match, but unlimited. Select different opponents and be your main. Practice all the moves you want without having to worry about not being able to c stick. If you are l canceling correctly trying doing a neutral a jab when you land. If you do it correctly the jab should come out immediately.

 

[Banksya]

you need to find people who play at an advanced level and learn off of them, simple as that.

 

[Superstar]

Actually, the L-Cancel is the same for everyone. You need to hit the button 6 frames, or 1/10 of a second before you land [I always thought it was a quarter second], before you land. The height from which you L-Cancel changes by falling speed, which you will know instinctively once you are good with your character.

L-Canceling (LC): This is a tactic to reduce the recovery time of air attacks. Right before you hit the ground, if you're in the middle of an air attack, press L (or R, or even Z) to decrease the recovery time. There are 7 frames during which an attack can be L-canceled. You must press L/R/Z in the 6 frames before hitting the ground or the very frame during which your character hits the ground. The result is that the lag of the air attack will be cut in half. Practice with Link’s Dair or Bowser’s Bair to see the full effects.