The Meta-Knight Data Thread

[R.Kefka]

My goal with this thread is to provide more data than you will ever need about MK and his opponents. Specifically, it's about KO moves and DI.

I'm going to pit every opponent's KO moves against MK (and vice versa) and track the results so that you know exactly what moves will KO when (and how).

Since I recently played against ROB player and lost, I decided to start with data on ROB. I plan to add characters to the list, but it's going to take awhile. Just doing ROB took me a lot of time today.

The purpose here is to know how you should be DI'ing, and where you should be using *your* moves to maximize their KO potential. For instance, glide attacks KO way earlier if the opponent DI's into them, and has good horizontal knockback when they DI away. You can exploit that by trying to glide attack people who are near the edge of the stage; with any luck, they will DI into you reflexively and you'll nab an early KO. Conversely, you need to know how to DI other attacks when you're at different points on the level.

Unfortunately, I'm only testing all of this stuff on FD. To do every character with every KO move and every logical DI I can think of would take... a long time. More time than I want to spend on this.

Also, I used two controllers in training mode (which has no move decay, so don't worry about that) to do this.

Last but not least, this data assumes that the you (or the opponent) is in the exact center of FD, and the attack is at full, non-decayed power. I also haven't charged any of the smashes at all.

Here goes.

 

[R.Kefka]

R.O.B. vs MK

Tipper Up-smash at 77 percent on FD no DI - Top
Tipper Up-Smash at 88 percent on FD horizontal away DI - Top
(Tipper means that you are at the highest point above him where the up-smash will hit. WATCH OUT FOR THIS MOVE)

D-smash at 134 percent on FD no DI - Top
D-smash at 173 percent on FD horizontal away DI - Top --Warning: high horizontal knockback with full DI.
(You can smash DI inwards and up to avoid the final knockback hit, guaranteeing that this won't EVER KO you)
(this data assumes that the whole d-smash hits you)
D-smash (last hit only) KOs at 144 percent on FD no DI - Top
It's too hard to do by myself to test with DI :/

F-smash at 117 percent on FD no DI - Side
F-smash at 117 percent on FD full (up+against) DI - Top
F-smash at 135 percent on FD straight up DI - corner

U-throw at 142 percent on FD no DI - Top
U-throw at 162 percent on FD horizontal away DI - Top, horizontal KO if at edge
U-throw at 164 percent on FD perfect DI - Top.
U-throw at 141 percent on FD horizontal against DI - Top
(Perfect DI is between down+side and side DI--i.e., in between the two grooves on your Gamecube Controller's joystick)

F-throw at 190 percent on FD no DI - side
F-throw at 186 percent on FD full (up+against) DI - top
F-throw at 209 percent on FD straight up DI - corner

B-throw at 177 percent on FD no DI - side
B-throw at 177 percent on FD full (up+against) DI - top
B-throw at over 200 percent on FD straight up DI - I don't know, you probably won't ever have to care.

N-air at 124 percent on FD no DI - corner
N-air at 110 percent on FD horizontal against DI - top
N-air at 103 percent on FD up and against DI - top
N-air at 117 percent on FD horizontal away DI - side - low trajectory
N-air at 129 percent on FD down DI - corner

Charged Gyromite at percent 150 on FD up and against DI - top
Charged Gyromite at percent 141 on FD no DI - side
Charged Gyromite at percent 173 on FD straight up DI - corner

MK vs. R.O.B.

D-smash (front) at 140 percent on FD no DI - side
D-smash (front) at 151 percent on FD full (against+up) DI - top
D-smash (front) at 167 percent on FD straight up DI - corner

D-smash (back) at 123 percent on FD no DI - side
D-smash (back) at 133 percent on FD full (against+up) DI - top
D-smash (back) at 149 percent on FD straight up DI - corner
(Please note that the second hit of your down-smash is nearly as strong as your forward-smash. Abuse this whenever possible)

F-smash at 122 percent on FD no DI - side
F-smash at 127 percent on FD full (against+up) DI - top
F-smash at 142 percent on FD straight up DI - corner

N-air at 139 percent on FD no DI - side
N-air at 146 percent on FD full DI (against+up)- top
N-air at 158 percent on FD straight up DI - corner

Up-throw at 175 percent on FD no DI - top
Up-throw at 169 percent on FD horizontal against DI - top
Up-throw at 201 percent on FD horizontal away DI - top
Up-throw at 205 percent on FD full DI (down+away) - top

Glide attack at 134 percent on FD no DI - top
Glide attack at 126 percent on FD horizontal against DI - top
Glide attack at 155 percent on FD horizontal away DI - corner
Glide attack at 138 percent on FD straight down DI - top
Glide attack at 155 percent on FD away and down DI - side

Up+B at 141 percent on FD no DI - top
Up+b at 130 percent on FD horizontal against DI - top
up+b at 177/178 percent on FD horizontal away DI - corner
Up+b at 169 percent on FD away and down DI -side

Next character will be everybody's favorite MK counter, Snake.

 

[R1ngo]

I will bump this thread every day to keep it at the top,

I am R1ngo and I support this thread!

 

[GiantKiller]

Great thread. Great info. Great (well-organized) presentation. Useful comments.

Sticky this.

-GK

 

[boom-man97]

very nicely done!
sticky wanted

 

[shrinkray21]

sticky please

 

[R.Kefka]

Snake vs. MK

F-smash at 49 percent on FD no DI - side
F-smash at 59 percent on FD up+against DI - top
F-smash at 68 percent on FD straight up DI - corner

Grenade at 139 percent on FD no DI - top
Grenade at 157 percent on FD horizontal away DI - top
Grenade at 159 percent on FD away+down DI - corner

F-tilt at 117 percent on FD no DI - side
F-tilt at 144 percent on FD straight up DI - corner
F-tilt at 135 percent on FD up+against DI - top
(The first hit does 8 percent, and the second does 12; this assumes that both hits connect. If only the second one hits, add 8 percent)

U-tilt at 91 percent on FD no DI - top
U-tilt at 93 percent on FD straight away DI - top
U-tilt at 101 percent on FD against+down DI - top

D-tilt at 119 percent on FD no DI - top
D-tilt at 134 percent on FD straight away DI - top
D-tilt at 118 percent on FD straight against DI - top


Jab combo at 114 percent on FD no DI - side
Jab combo at 134-136 percent on FD up+against or straight up DI - corner

If you hold away from Snake, you can escape the combo. This won't work if you're in the air when he hits you, however. What happens is the second hit will miss, and you don't get any DI; the third kick then connects.

(The jab combo also pushes you around, making it hard to test. Give or take 1 or 2 percent for these values)

C4 at 82 percent on FD no DI - top
C4 at 94 percent on FD straight away DI - top/corner - you will die at this percent, DI just tells you where. Has high horizontal knockback.

B-air at 102 percent on FD no DI - side
B-air at 112 percent on FD against+up DI - top
B-air at 127 percent on FD straight up DI - corner

U-air at 96 percent on FD no DI - top
U-air at 108 percent on FD straight away DI - top
U-air at 110 percent on FD away + down DI - top

D-air is really hard to test. It has four hits: the first does 6, the second and third do 5, and the fourth does 12 with knockback. That makes 28 percent in total.

D-air (full) KOs at 83 percent on FD no DI - side
D-air (last hit only) KOs at 89 percent on FD no DI - side

This is weird. This probably means that the D-air has a stronger hitbox at the bottom, and a weaker (but still strong) one higher up. I'm guessing this because the third hit pops you up first.
You can smash DI any of the hits to escape the final hit. You have to account for the fact that Snake is probably moving while he does this move. I really don't want to test any more of this move :/ You probably won't ever need to know though.

F-air at 117 percent on FD no DI - top
F-air at 122 percent on FD straight away DI - top
F-air at 124 percent on FD straight against DI - top

F-air spikes you when you're in the air, so if you're hit with it off the stage, you go straight down. If you're even with FD, you'll die off the bottom at around 20 percent with no chance to jump. That being said, if you jump before it hits you while on the stage, you'll go into the stage and live.

Infinity has also pointed out that this move has a nasty upwards trajectory if he hits you early in the animation, near the top of Snake's head. It's capable of KO'ing you with no DI at around 85 percent when you're a little bit above FD, so be careful.

Powerful Nikita at 131 percent on FD no DI - corner
Powerful Nikita at 114 percent on FD straight up DI - top
Powerful Nikita at 115 percent on FD straight against DI - top
Powerful Nikita at 102 percent on FD up+against DI - top
Powerful Nikita at 135 percent on FD down+against DI - corner

A powerful Nikita is one that has traveled some distance before hitting you. This doesn't apply to canceled Nikitas, which won't KO until over 200 percent. Weird note: not DI'ing the Nikita at all is actually a decent idea.

****

I thought Snake's throws would count as KO throws, but by DI'ing straight up you can survive back and forward throw above 200 percent. Don't DI straight down, and you should be fine.

The real killer is Snake's up-throw, KO'ing at 177 percent with no DI. So here is the rule for DI'ing throws: hold up while watching for his up-throw. If he up-throws, quickly hit left or right, and you'll survive until 189 percent.

***

Dash-attack at 144 percent on FD no DI - top
Dash-attack at 155 percent on FD straight down DI - corner
Dash-attack at 139 percent on FD down+away DI - side
Dash-attack at 129 percent on FD up+against DI - top

Up-smash is a tricky beast. It has an opening hitbox where Snake hits you with the mortar before firing; this can put you into the mortar and KO you extra early. You take extra percent from the swing, and you're high up for the hit. The swing does 4 percent, but can be DI'ed horizontally to avoid the mortar. There is a hitbox *behind* Snake with the swing as well, and it pulls you in towards him. Be very careful not to run into it.

Up-smash (no swing) at 144 percent on FD no DI - top
Up-smash (no swing) at 158 percent on FD straight away DI - side
Up-smash (no swing) at 160 percent on FD straight down DI - corner
Up-smash (no swing) at 121 percent on FD up+against DI - top

Up-smash (with swing) at 104 percent no DI - top
Up-smash (with swing) at 140 percent straight away DI - side
Up-smash (with swing) at 120 percent straight down DI - top
Up-smash (with swing) at 81 percent up+against DI - top (DON'T DI THIS WAY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD)

Another interesting note: you have to DI based on where Snake is facing when he fires. Even if you're "behind" the mortar shell from Snake's point of view, DI'ing in that direction (behind the shell) will cause you to die *sooner*. Always DI either down or the direction that Snake is facing when he fires.

D-smash at 105 percent no DI - top
D-smash at 116 percent straight horizontal DI - top

Odds are the down-smash will be charged slightly, so these values are minimums. My advice is... don't get hit by d-smash. Most often, a Snake will plant one after KO'ing you; make it a priority to detonate it while invincible.

Snake can KO you with almost anything :/

MK vs. Snake

Snake is a monster. He is very, very hard to KO. You will need to focus on keeping him at the edge of the stage where DI helps him less. If you can cypher-grab or hit him out of a cypher when he's far off the level, then you cannot ever miss that opportunity.

D-smash (front) at 147 percent on FD no DI - side
D-smash (front) at 169 percent on FD up+against DI - top
D-smash (front) at 181 percent on FD straight up DI - corner

D-smash (back) at 131 percent on FD no DI - side
D-smash (back) at 145 percent on FD up+against DI - top
D-smash (back) at 160 percent on FD straight up DI - corner

F-smash at 130 percent on FD no DI - side
F-smash at 142 percent on FD up+against DI - top
F-smash at 155 percent on FD straight up DI - corner

N-air at 145 percent on FD no DI - side
N-air at 163 percent on FD up+against DI - top
N-air at 173 percent on FD straight up DI - corner

I'm not doing up-throw because it will not KO him until 199 percent with no DI.

*

Notes on grabs in general: In the situation where Snake grenade drops, your grabs can be very handy. If you down-throw Snake and step on the grenade, it will detonate and hurt both of you, but give you no knockback. This does 13 damage to Snake and 12 to you.

Up-throw can escape grenade blasts if you're beneath platforms. You will dive bomb onto the platform above the grenade and avoid it.

Forward-throw will detonate the grenade unless you slide past it. The explosion will hurt both you and Snake, and you can get the damage from the grenade in addition to the forward-throw. This does 18 damage to Snake and 12 to you, and you both suffer knockback.

Back-throw will only detonate the grenade on rare instances, giving you 12 damage and no knockback. Snake takes 19 damage from this exchange.

*

Glide attack at 148 percent on FD no DI - top
Glide attack at 140 percent on FD horizontal against DI - top
Glide attack at 169 percent on FD horizontal away DI - corner
Glide attack at 154 percent on FD straight down DI - top
Glide attack at 160 percent on FD away and down DI - side

Be careful of using glide attack when Snake is on the stage. His up-tilt has an easy time beating it, and you want to avoid up-tilt like the plague.

Up+B at 162 percent on FD no DI - top
Up+b at 148 percent on FD horizontal against DI - top
up+b at 183 percent on FD horizontal away DI - corner
Up+b at 173 percent on FD away and down DI -side

 

[R1ngo]

DDD maybe? seems to be alot of DDD players, or someone else who has a high player base.

 

[Infinitysmash]

F-air spikes you when you're in the air, so if you're hit with it off the stage, you go straight down. If you're even with FD, you'll die off the bottom at around 20 percent with no chance to jump. That being said, if you jump before it hits you while on the stage, you'll go into the stage and live.

Not exactly, the hitbox for that is near the mid-to-bottom of the attack. If you're above and to the side of Snake it will knock you up and away rather than into the ground so be careful of your placement vs this attack. Also, he broadcasts the attack with a giant neon sign so getting hit by this move and it spiking you is cause for embarassment if you didn't get hit on purpose.

What character should I do after that?

The mirror. We've played enough that we know a few things here and there but you and me definitely need to know the percentages dude. Letting everyone else know would be nice too

 

[R.Kefka]

Bumping because I finished Snake's KO moves. Next time I edit, I'll have MK's KO moves against Snake, and MK's KO moves for the ditto, since it'll be easy to do. After that...?

 

[Kayzee]

I'd say Fox after that.

 

[Metal_Dave]

Nice thread...very useful information here. :o

 

[Infinitysmash]

Odds are the down-smash will be charged slightly, so these values are minimums. My advice is... don't get hit by d-smash. Most often, a Snake will plant one after KO'ing you; make it a priority to detonate it while invincible.

If you place it properly you can roll across the mine and take no damage from it by using the invincibility frames on your roll. I remember doing this with Metaknight's back roll by standing just outside of the range of the mine and doing the roll, placing the mine roughly in the middle of your roll.

 

[MisterMoo]

good info. Sticky please ^__^

 

[bobert4936]

wow very nice i would never have the patience to do this. BUMP

 

[Shears]

wow i give you alot of credit for the patience and determination to test all of this. i respect what youre doing but i dont truly see its value. i dont rely on my kills by getting an opponent to 203% damage to KO with an ftilt. most of my KOs are by edgehogging, shuttle loop, dsmash, or pushing them out of recovery range. i can usually do this at around 60% on noobs and 80-120% on the highly competitive players. granted most of my kills will be on the bottom boundry than the top or sides. knowing the percents i can KO every character with every move on every neutral stage doesnt seem very applicable. i give you lots of credit and youve got my support to make this thread a sticky, but i want to make sure youre aware of the reliance of this data before you "use" any more of your time doing this. however, this thread will probably gain you alot of recognition as the mew2king of MK. you may not end up being the best MK, but you will definately be known as the most dedicated and most tactical (like mew2king).

 

[Infinitysmash]

wow i give you alot of credit for the patience and determination to test all of this. i respect what youre doing but i dont truly see its value. i dont rely on my kills by getting an opponent to 203% damage to KO with an ftilt. most of my KOs are by edgehogging, shuttle loop, dsmash, or pushing them out of recovery range. i can usually do this at around 60% on noobs and 80-120% on the highly competitive players. granted most of my kills will be on the bottom boundry than the top or sides. knowing the percents i can KO every character with every move on every neutral stage doesnt seem very applicable. i give you lots of credit and youve got my support to make this thread a sticky, but i want to make sure youre aware of the reliance of this data before you "use" any more of your time doing this. however, this thread will probably gain you alot of recognition as the mew2king of MK. you may not end up being the best MK, but you will definately be known as the most dedicated and most tactical (like mew2king).

If you don't understand the point of this then you really need to open up your mind. Yes, edge hogging and getting gimp kills is a large part of the game, but a VERY large part of kills will be at higher percentages and using the tables of information he's putting together will make it easy to know when to use your kill moves rather than your gimp moves.

As much as I love doing a spot dodge into a downsmash it's just not practical to do that at lower percentages unless you want them away from you or they're very near the edge; however, hitting someone with a downsmash that has no decay on it at a higher percentage when you KNOW it will kill them is very useful information.

Also, this information lets you know which way you need to DI when you get hit. DI is one of (if not THE) most defining abilities of an advanced player and knowing which way to do your DI is very important.

 

[Shears]

o i understand the importance of DI. but knowing the percent the dsmash can KO wouldnt change the practical use of a spot dodge to dsmash. if the dsmash is the only move that will hit them after a spot dodge then you will do the dsmash regardless of percents, unless you plan on leaving yourself vulnerable to an attack. mew2king knew every single frame rate and weight and attack speed and shield and attack stun and all that crap, but he still lost pound 3. knowing the lowest percent an attack will KO at isnt going to matter seeing as you will use whatever move works and gets the hit whenever you can. if you knew your opponent was at 123% damage and a dsmash is going to KO them wont help if you cant get the dsmash off. if you plan on KOing with a single attack and no tactical manuever then go and memorize every bit of data and brawl formula in the game. otherwise just try to rack up about 80% damage with whatever moves you can and then start going for the KO with whatever moves or tactics you can. relying on a nair at 95% damage when youre down a stock isnt going to make the comeback, but trying some crazy mindgame and going wild to get a risky kill at 40% will. i give the kid credit, i just dont think its giong to matter that much because at 200% you can pretty much assume almost any move will kill. i think something more useful would be the amount of damage each move does instead of the damage requirement for a move to KO. i also feel that spacing and attack lag are alot more important to know seeing as MKs weakness is defense, so knowing how to protect yourself will be your strength.

 

[Infinitysmash]

Know what percent to use what move to kill someone is very valuable information, regardless of what is normally used to kill someone. Knowing which way to DI when you get hit by a move is also extremely valuable. This is providing us with both sets of information and is therefore an extremely valuable resource.

This information will matter in tournament play, I've already used it more than once.

 

[R.Kefka]

Shears: The reason I'm compiling this data is so that you can have the following information during your fights:

1) How to DI the opponent's moves. I've already found some strange and counter-intuitive DI data. I'll probably find more. If you DI badly, you will be KO'ed much sooner than if you DI well. MK is lightweight, and it's pivotal that he live as long as possible.

2) Understand move properties. It's much better to read about a move and say, "Oh, I didn't know it did that," than to have the same reaction in a tournament. Especially if your surprise gets you eliminated.

3) Know when to use your KO moves. Many MK's have trouble KO'ing. I don't. This is because I don't use my KO moves when they won't be useful. I make sure to eliminate decay right before the move will KO, and then set up for it.

That is what I want to learn from testing all of this.

 

[Kayzee]

You should be thankful that he's providing this information. He could have just kept it to himself. He's doing this to benefit all competitive Meta Knight users.

He's doing this for us, so don't piss on it.

 

[Infinitysmash]

I wouldn't say he's pissing on it dude, he just doesn't understand why it's useful.

 

[Shears]

im not insulting him ive actually said that im impressed with what hes doing its just that i dont think this is going to hugely change the dynamics of MK gameplay nor make you go from barely beating a friend to three stocking them. idk i just dont think keeping a data sheet over every attack possibility and encouraged DI is going to help that much. i think if you just play the game and know the characters and their moves is going to lead you to instinctually DI in a safer direction, instead of referring to a data sheet in the middle of a match, checking your percents to know that you wont need to DI because they wont KO you. i think you should just DI everytime and play it safe. DI doesnt deteriorate and im not wasting any significant energy tapping the c-stick and joystick in the same direction. so knowing that im at 70% damage and will live if i dont DI isnt going to make me perform better and have a better chance of winning because i saved that energy and focus to DI when i was at 85% damage where DI made a big difference. if you just DI every time and know how moves KO and knockback you will be fine. percents arent going to matter if you do what i just said.

 

[Infinitysmash]

im not insulting him ive actually said that im impressed with what hes doing its just that i dont think this is going to hugely change the dynamics of MK gameplay nor make you go from barely beating a friend to three stocking them. idk i just dont think keeping a data sheet over every attack possibility and encouraged DI is going to help that much. i think if you just play the game and know the characters and their moves is going to lead you to instinctually DI in a safer direction, instead of referring to a data sheet in the middle of a match, checking your percents to know that you wont need to DI because they wont KO you. i think you should just DI everytime and play it safe. DI doesnt deteriorate and im not wasting any significant energy tapping the c-stick and joystick in the same direction. so knowing that im at 70% damage and will live if i dont DI isnt going to make me perform better and have a better chance of winning because i saved that energy and focus to DI when i was at 85% damage where DI made a big difference. if you just DI every time and know how moves KO and knockback you will be fine. percents arent going to matter if you do what i just said.

It's useful because you know how to stay alive better and know how to kill them better. I don't know any other way to say it more clearly than that. And yes, staying alive for longer and killing people faster and better will make a very significant difference.

I'm not saying anything else on this. If you don't get the point by now then you're a lost cause.

 

[Shears]

i know what youre saying and i understand the point youre trying to make. but what im saying is if you just DI every time and know how other characters and their moves work then youll be fine. meaning that knowing percents wont matter and you wont need to think of DIing as a product of an attacks characteristics and equate DI direction to moves because by just DIing every time and just knowing your opponent you will do just that without making a list of every game formula and variable. therefore if 140% is the highest percent you can survive an fsmash by ROB than you will die at 140% regardless of knowing that bit of information. all it does is make you sound smart and give you hope, hope that you will play better because youre more knowledgable on the development of the game. if that works for you than great youve got your key to success. but what im saying is none of it directly influences your performance as MK its just a placebo that hypes you up so, in your case, you play better. i dont think i can explain it any better so i guess i will stop trying to explain myself and let you go on with it as well. im just wondering if anyone shares my perspective?

 

[MisterMoo]

R.Kefka, How many hits does it take with another move to undo the decay of another move?

 

[R.Kefka]

Shears: If you know that an attack *cannot* KO you at a certain percent but another attack can, then you will know which attack you want to avoid.

You are right, having all this data is somewhat excessive. It won't even help that much because your attacks will all almost never be at full power. However, setting up your moves so that you land moves at the right percents is handy. If you down-smash when a character is at 140, even though it can't KO him until 147, then you have lost a LOT of KO potential. You might have been better off using another move to build damage and keep pressure rather than waste your KO move.

Again, I agree; doing all this is kind of excessive. But in doing so, I also manage to find out lots of weird move properties that I didn't know otherwise. I won't be surprised when the properties are used against me in tournament play, and that may save me from losing in important situations. That's how I see it.

Edit: I edited the earlier post about Snake with MK's KO data. It has a lot of little tidbits about how to deal with Snake's grenades as well, so please check it out.

 

[Shears]

shouldnt you just avoid every attack? thats what im getting to. if you just avoid every attack and always DI then youre at your safest game and least likely to die, percents and attacks wont matter. i dont think saving your attacks is going to matter, spamming them however will. as long as you dont spam it youll be fine. at 140% a dsmash may not kill but it will knock them far enough where you can chase them off the stage and edgehog. and if theyre at 140% and you know it takes 147% to KO but dsmash is your only option then you will/should use the dsmash, if you ignore the opportunity and try to focus on a dtilt that you know wont KO so you can use the dsmash after than your only making yourself vulnerable and just played like a noob. if they manage to come back at 140% from your dsmash then you know the next dsmash will KO. the move decay isnt really effective until youve used it and hit with it about 3-4 times in a row. and if its taking you to 140% to KO an opponent than youre doing something wrong because with MKs edgeguarding abilities you should be able to KO alot easier and alot earlier. MK shouldnt be relying on KOs with a single move, hes not powerful enough. thats why im saying this is as important as some people make it seem. sure its a good statistic to know and some moderator will come around and see the work you put in and make it a sticky and a pro will see your dedication and compliment you and your name will get made as the most knowledgable about MK but that doesnt matter in tournaments, gameplay, and winning cash. thats all ive got to say. its not as valuable as most may think.

 

[Sino]

isn't there a guide somewhere on the internet where all you can see at which % you can KO a specific character with a specific KO attack, like to KO ike you must do 160% to Ike and then Dsmash to KO him.

 

[R.Kefka]

R.Kefka, How many hits does it take with another move to undo the decay of another move?

Nine hits. I tested this as follows:

I had MK versus an R.O.B. on Luigi's Mansion. I hit him with a forward-smash at the start of the match and did 14 percent. I then had the R.O.B. SD while I spammed f-smash against a column about fifteen times (to make sure). Then I used nine down-tilts against a column. When the R.O.B. came back, I f-smashed and did 14 percent again.

I repeated this, but then only used eight down-tilts against the column. I had the R.O.B. SD, come back, and the f-smash did 13 percent.

 

[Shears]

Nine hits. I tested this as follows:

I had MK versus an R.O.B. on Luigi's Mansion. I hit him with a forward-smash at the start of the match and did 14 percent. I then had the R.O.B. SD while I spammed f-smash against a column about fifteen times (to make sure). Then I used nine down-tilts against a column. When the R.O.B. came back, I f-smashed and did 14 percent again.

I repeated this, but then only used eight down-tilts against the column. I had the R.O.B. SD, come back, and the f-smash did 13 percent.

now thats significantly useful. im not saying the other stuff is useless i just dont think its as practical and useful as people make it seem. this however is a nice find.

 

[ckm]

Nine hits. I tested this as follows:

I had MK versus an R.O.B. on Luigi's Mansion. I hit him with a forward-smash at the start of the match and did 14 percent. I then had the R.O.B. SD while I spammed f-smash against a column about fifteen times (to make sure). Then I used nine down-tilts against a column. When the R.O.B. came back, I f-smashed and did 14 percent again.

I repeated this, but then only used eight down-tilts against the column. I had the R.O.B. SD, come back, and the f-smash did 13 percent.

Im curious... can we be sure that the 15 f-smashes you performed completely decayed the attack? In other words, could it be decayed further, which would make the necessary hits to recharge the attack increase? I know its unlikely that i would ever use an attack 15+ times in a row, but it would be nice to know if it was some sort of ratio or something.

 

[Infinitysmash]

Im curious... can we be sure that the 15 f-smashes you performed completely decayed the attack? In other words, could it be decayed further, which would make the necessary hits to recharge the attack increase? I know its unlikely that i would ever use an attack 15+ times in a row, but it would be nice to know if it was some sort of ratio or something.

Because it only took him 9 hits to get it back to the original percentage and power.

 

[R.Kefka]

ckm: I'm working with the "list theory" of decay. When a move connects with an opponent or breakable object, it goes into a list. The list is ten moves long. Every time you connect with another attack, that attack then goes into the list as well. Each new move pushes the old moves further down the list. If a move passes the tenth spot on the list, it drops out.

For every time a move appears in the list, it gives that move another level of decay. When a move drops out, it removes a level of decay.

With nine down-tilts and one forward-smash in the list, the next forward-smash pushes the old one out. Thus, the new forward-smash has no decay on it. With eight down-tilts and one forward-smash in the list, the new forward-smash does *not* push the old one out, thus it is decayed.

At least, that's how the theory works in my mind. Also, some moves are not affected by decay at all.

Anyhow, I'm going to start working on this again now. I was preparing for a tournament (and busy attending it), so I couldn't do any work on the data. I will be resuming tomorrow (as today is Mother's day).

 

[Infinitysmash]

Anyhow, I'm going to start working on this again now. I was preparing for a tournament (and busy winning it), so I couldn't do any work on the data.

Fixed~

There were 3 Metaknights in the top of that tournament and we were 2 of them, lol.

On a related note, I'll start helping with this some time this week when I'm not being absorbed by work and WoW. Stupid WoW...

 

[LessThanThree]

bump, sticky?

 

[Infinitysmash]

Not letting this fall off the first page. Bumpasaurus.