Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[Spikezillian]

I really just don't get this opinion. If you want to play a low tier fine, winning tournaments doesn't have to be your main goal. You can play for fun or to be the best with your character. No problem with that. I tried to point this out in my last post. We all play for different reasons.

It's this logic that is ironic and ignorant, though. Just because Mewtwo isnt S tier f****** Shiek doesn't mean he isnt viable in tournaments lmfao. He can still win one day. It is true that people claim that under D tier isnt considered viable, but honestly is that gunna stop anyone from playing Zelda (sorry, just using an example) in tourney?

Villager was once lower than mid tier. Bowser was once A tier. This is because we didnt get to see the amazing potential of several characters that were actually good behind the curtains. Ranai uses Villager and makes him look so godly, but when I play him I look like an idiot. This is because I havent actually taken the time to study the mechanics of said character, and actually dedicate myself to him to learn his capabilities.

I took my time with Mewtwo, I played him to my hearts content for several hours, and even if the training was against computer players, I still almost beat the highest ranked Ganon in the world at a tournament, and one of the best Mario players online. I've been complimented several times and changed peoples perspective on how "bad" of a character he is. You wanna make a character look good? Work at it. Dont just sit there and pick Sheik, pick what you want and do the work to learn something on your own. 1/3 the crap I know about Mewtwo I dont even know if some Mewtwo players know.

Every single character has a chance to be viable, you just don't know until someone proves it. Can you make Zelda viable? That's up to you to make that happen.

Let me put it another way too: Outside of smash, I am a drummer. At my college, I am asked to play drums 2 hours a day every day. It sounds crazy, but that is how you become a professional in 2 years. You learn everything from the basics to complicated beats and techniques, and when you learn everything you can, you can teach yourself something with the abilities you've been given. This is how drummer gods back in New Orleans would invent new types of drumming, and new patterns for many generations to learn. They sat there, and took the effort to brainstorm, and learn something no one else will.

But pointing out that certain characters are better than others isn't "ignorance", it's just a fact. And it's a very important thing to keep in mind when selecting your main. Most don't find losing to less skilled players, or facing multiple bad matchups in bracket due to your character choice is fun.

That's very true, if you look at the frame data or damage output of some characters, run speed, etc, they are definitely going to look better behind the numbers. However, the strings of moves you can pull, the potential techs you can find for specific characters, and so much more, can make or break a character. This game is super young, we dont actually know if Palu is truly bottom tier yet. For all we know she has an infinite we just havent found yet. It sounds crazy, but anything is possible. They found a new type of "DI" in Melee last year. 14 years after that game was released.

So rather than being negative and saying this character isnt going to win anything, which isnt exactly true, you could've simply just recommend a character you thought was better?

Or ya know, I could just go ahead and "not waste my time" with trying to convince you that what you said was absolutely toxic for a thread like this.

You don't waste time. You make time.

 

[Spikezillian]

Er, I'm the one who mains MK and Lucina. I do plan to win, but I'm still going to play Lucina because I still get results with her. My question was mostly "Should I have a top 3" so I have a backup character if needed. While in that question, it's mostly between Mewtwo and Greninja, I've also questioned: Lucario, Rosalina, Cloud, Robin, and Corrin (although they're not out yet).

I think that if you think you have given yourself enough time that your characters are gunna do well versus other people, then you could totally pick up a new character as a third! I think picking someone who is going to be able to help versus the matchups of and will be your best bet. Honestly, I think that you would enjoy the agility of over by looking at your choice of primary and secondary character. But if anything, you can always study the bad matchups of Lucina and MK and see if Gren or M2 match up better.

 

[TewLiter]

Hello I'm a fellow smash player who's planning on going to his first tournament soon-ish, As of right now I'm sort of maining Donkey Kong but I want to move my character pick up the tier list a bit before I really commit to a main. As a player I really enjoy using spacing and combos to wall out my opponent particularly with u-air and killing off the top. Also having a good grab game is very important for me.

 

[Dar4]

Every single character has a chance to be viable, you just don't know until someone proves it. Can you make Zelda viable? That's up to you to make that happen.

I could write walls of text, but it's not necessary because the difference in our opinion really boils down to this statement, which I completely disagree with.

I don't believe every single character has a chance to be viable. I define viable in terms of ability to win a national. Sure, any character can win a local but in my opinion the meta has advanced far enough in smash 4 at this point to say with near certainty that atleast 2/3 of the cast is not capable of winning a national in their current form. I don't think those characters have any realistic chance to take out multiple top players in one tourney run.

The worst thing ever is having to switch characters later and find out you wasted all that time. That's what happened with me, I used to main a low tier (dedede) and really regret it because I wasted a bunch of time on a character that was hindering my results.

 

[Wolfheart77]

I really enjoy using spacing and combos to wall out my opponent particularly with u-air and killing off the top. Also having a good grab game is very important for me.

Try Robin.
-Specials to space.
-His uair kills off the top, as well as his wind jab.
-Has a good grab game. Back throw kills, down throw combos, forward throw can be useful for getting people away from you. Grab range... not so much.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Donkey Kong is a mid-tier... and though those numbers are slowly dwindling as mid-tiers are buffed into the higher tiers, Donkey Kong doesn't really need a buff to be viable. DKWill has beaten ZeRo by only using DK... he's clearly viable, but you might want some secondaries with those properties.

Your playstyle screams . Try him as a counterpick.

 

[Dar4]

Hello I'm a fellow smash player who's planning on going to his first tournament soon-ish, As of right now I'm sort of maining Donkey Kong but I want to move my character pick up the tier list a bit before I really commit to a main. As a player I really enjoy using spacing and combos to wall out my opponent particularly with u-air and killing off the top. Also having a good grab game is very important for me.

Sounds like fit your criteria and are all excellent characters. I'd try those. I have a secondary DK and personally found very natural as you just like DK end up using bair a lot in neutral. He's also easy to pick up.

 

[Spikezillian]

Hello I'm a fellow smash player who's planning on going to his first tournament soon-ish, As of right now I'm sort of maining Donkey Kong but I want to move my character pick up the tier list a bit before I really commit to a main. As a player I really enjoy using spacing and combos to wall out my opponent particularly with u-air and killing off the top. Also having a good grab game is very important for me.

Right off the bat, I think of ! His grab game is pretty good, plus he can zair as a bonus. He can kill off the top a few different ways, and he has lots of cool combos to wall out the opponent. is a solid choice too but his grab range is really hard to get used to.

is a good grabber too, who can kill off the top really early. as well.

If the "tier list" thing isnt a big deal, I would even say or , cause they manage their space really well and have fantastic kill moves for off the top, as well as great grab game.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Hey guys. I'm thinking of adding my characters into my secondary and for fun lists. For the full context, here are my two mains that I'm not gonna change because I love them too much to drop them: and
As for secondaries, the only ones that I consistently have on standby are both and I originally had as a secondary, and I still love him, but I haven't played him in a while and since I'm putting so much time into my mains, I'm not sure if I can give Toon Link dedicated practice. He'll always be an option for me, though.
As for my play style, I'm not sure if I can really say I have one. Since I play Kirby, I like characters that are combo-centric and are good at dealing damage. At the same time, my true main, Mega Man, is a character that is fantastic at spacing and requires a lot of mind games and dedication to get really good results with. I used to main back in the early meta before dropping him for Kirby, who was a secondary of mine back then. I also messed around with and
I'm someone who plays characters that I love playing as, so how viable they are is not a factor that I consider, since I'm not intending to go to a national level. It'd be nice if some of you guys gave me suggestions to add to both my secondary and for fun lists. Thanks in advance!

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Well I found my answer, I shall stick to and for my mains, no more, no less. I figured 3 mains would just make me worse with all 3 than I would be with just 2. Now I might delve into secondaries, but I think I've found a good enough team.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

I've co-mained for a very long time, but I can't stand his plethora of hitbox errors anymore. Should I drop him to counterpick until the next patch, or keep him as co-main status? I feel like he's going to be fixed sooner or later.

Also, who here thinks is actually going to get nerfed this time around?

 

[Spikezillian]

I've co-mained for a very long time, but I can't stand his plethora of hitbox errors anymore. Should I drop him to counterpick until the next patch, or keep him as co-main status? I feel like he's going to be fixed sooner or later.

Also, who here thinks is actually going to get nerfed this time around?

Didnt Sakurai already say there will no longer be any character balancing from now going forward? Including during the Bayo and Corrin patch?

 

[Wolf64118]

I've co-mained for a very long time, but I can't stand his plethora of hitbox errors anymore. Should I drop him to counterpick until the next patch, or keep him as co-main status? I feel like he's going to be fixed sooner or later.

Also, who here thinks is actually going to get nerfed this time around?

Yeah she'll get nerfed, even if it's just a little bit. I'm more concerned about Cloud though, he is shredding up For Glory right now.

 

[Dar4]

Also, who here thinks is actually going to get nerfed this time around?

We can hope, but I doubt it. If her needles had more lag I'd be OK with the character.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Responding to all.
Spikezillian - No. Sakurai supports wholeheartedly the consistent use of balance patches, and said so in an interview.
Wolf64118 - He's overcentralized, NOT overpowered. On my personal tier list, he ranks 13th. He's so easy to use, which is what makes him so popular on a medium like For Glory.
Dar4 - I'm most concerned with Bouncing Fish. A fast, strong, reliable, AND really really long range KO move should not exist. Also, forward air and side tilt need major nerfs. But I do agree that the Needles pretty much cut off every ground approach option.

 

[Dar4]

Responding to all.
Spikezillian - No. Sakurai supports wholeheartedly the consistent use of balance patches, and said so in an interview.
Wolf64118 - He's overcentralized, NOT overpowered. On my personal tier list, he ranks 13th. He's so easy to use, which is what makes him so popular on a medium like For Glory.
Dar4 - I'm most concerned with Bouncing Fish. A fast, strong, reliable, AND really really long range KO move should not exist. Also, forward air and side tilt need major nerfs. But I do agree that the Needles pretty much cut off every ground approach option.

True, bouncing fish is amazing. But if sheik was forced to approach almost everyone in the cast instead of the other way around that'd do a lot to balance her in my eyes. Thus why I'm thinking needle lag nerf. She's such a tough character to balance though. A feel like a serious nerf to her main tools would send her plummeting way down the tier list.

But in all honestly I don't see her being touched since she isn't on the level of melee fox or brawl MK in terms of her superiority over the rest of the cast. Plus she's already underpowered at low skill levels, casual scene and free for alls. And seems pretty balanced in doubles.

 

[Joey T.]

For me, Sheik "only" has three aspects that need to be tweaked: fair, needles and the 50/50 out of dthrow. I'm not hoping for a massive nerf, but if they retouched that, imo, it would be a fair nerf. I also wouldn't mind a nerf to Bouncing Fish, but for me it's ok just how it is now.

But back to the topic at hand, I've tried the characters you recommended me, and I had a lot of fun with them, but they're not main material for me (well, maybe Pikachu, he's really cool). They go to the funsies list for sure tho.
I recently watched ESAM's new video about being honest with your mains, so I will ask you guys for help following that criteria.
What I'm looking for is a character that can do well at tournament level while being entertaining to watch in a normal basis. For example, we all saw Dabuz gaining the crowd's hearts with his Rosalina against ZeRo, or 6wX doing amazing stuff with Sonic, but when it comes to players with "less skill" than them, they can be a real pain to watch because of their extremely defensive and repetitive playstyle. So, just like before, I leave the rest up to you.

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate the help!

 

[the_muffin]

Entertaining to watch and does well in tournaments? comes to mind right away, but I could see an argument for as well.

 

[Dar4]

Entertaining to watch and does well in tournaments? comes to mind right away, but I could see an argument for as well.

For me, come to mind. People love watching my but I play him pretty aggressively. If you play him super campy he is dreadful to watch. I want to include but I don't think he fits the does well in tournament criteria.

 

[TyDye]

I think you should choose your main with two main things in mind:

1- Do they come naturally to you? This will help you more easily learn / master that character AND choose a character that fits your play style.
2- Do you enjoy playing as that character? If you don't have fun playing them... Why play?

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Well, here's a debate.
Every person has a different opinion on who is top tier and why they are.
For instance, my personal top tier is 7 characters, .
But there are many other characters out there that, when used correctly, are also considered top tier, such as , etc. So if you want to play a "top tier", go look at a lot of tier lists, not just one. Find what among the consistently highest ranked fits your style and play them.

 

[C0rvus]

When making a tier list, you always assume the character is being played well. I also agree with fun being a major point. Your main ought to be a character you can play for hours at a time. Nothing is worse than losing interest in the middle of a tournament. Also note that generally speaking winning is more fun than losing, so that is also a factor.

 

[AJb1205]

What are good secondaries for Ness Toon Link and Roy?

 

[C0rvus]

Someone with a good Rosalina matchup maybe? Three characters seems like plenty to me tbh.

Anyone you have in mind?

 

[TyDye]

What are good secondaries for Ness Toon Link and Roy?

I main with alt's of . But before Cloud I used . Honestly having three characters plenty; four at max. seem to be characters commonly used together and they cover alot of options.

 

[SpiceGC]

So the game has been out for like a year, but I still don't have a main. I'm just searching for a medium sized character that is really fun to play as. I do not want anyone slow or campy because that sounds really boring to me. Also i would like someone who is in melee to just so whenever I go to play that game I know who to pick even if they'll be a little different.

Thanks.

 

[C0rvus]

These are all medium sized and in Melee as well. This is your starting point. Slow and campy sounds like an opinion thing, so that's mostly up to you. Of these guys, play pretty similarly in Melee. are hard to recommend because they play so differently between games or are mediocre/bad in one or both of them.

 

[SpiceGC]

Thanks, extremely helpful, but out of all of these characters who would you say is fun?

 

[C0rvus]

That's something you ought to figure out for yourself, but in my opinion, I find pretty fun. I like them for separate reasons, but a common theme here is pressure. That's just me.

 

[SpiceGC]

Thank you.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

You need a main in Smash 4 that you could play in Melee and have no significant change? or .

 

[Scottbatman24]

Hey I'm a shulk main. However at the moment I just cannot get past some of the higher tier characters. I also don't have a secondary is there anyone I could just adapt to?

 

[FamilyTeam]

If you want, you could try Cloud. He doesn't have as much range as Shulk, but his range is still very good. He's also far more versatile in just about everything he does, with a lot more kill options, and he has Limit to force approaches and get very early kills with Finishing Touch.

 

[the_muffin]

I'd suggest anyone main hunting to wait until Wednesday after the new patch drops. Part of me thinks Cloud is going to get nerfed.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Characters I'd watch out for nerfs-
Characters I'd watch for buffs-
But remember- they just added two unpredictable decisions for DLC characters, the patch will probably be equally as unpredictable.

 

[Kulty]

Guys,

There's a friend of mine who wanted to get into competitive Smash. He already chose his main which is. He loves to play many characters, and doesn't mind which character he's playing as secondaries. He wanted to pick characters that can help improve his overall-Smash game. He found this video which was pretty helpful (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG8Nsv_QWVQ), but he wanted to know which characters can fit in each number. Basically, he wants a list of characters for each type:
1) A character that's easy to pick up and play, teaches basic KOing and combos (in the video)
2) A character that can teach adaptibility, teaches how to develop different playstyles (in the video)
3) A character that teaches spacing (in the video)
4) A character that teaches how to use moves in an unconventional way, learn each moves' special properties (in the video). Fun fact, I don't know what this point means. Need help for that...
5) A balanced character (no strengths or weaknesses) and teaches basics of Smash without in-depth (in the video)

Any ideas of characters for each of the categories?

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

He picked . If he takes this training regimen, he'll soon learn why that wasn't a great decision... unless there is a buff next patch.
Just show him well rounded, basic characters. Here's a few examples to get you started-

C0rvus Yeah... I just did that, didn't I? Fixed.

 

[C0rvus]

Says not to play Puff because she's bad. Then recommends Lucina. Okay.
I will say Marth might be a good character to learn with. He thrives on spacing and positioning, has nothing super crazy or busted about him, and is similar enough to a number of characters that you could move away from him while still being able to apply what he taught you. Get your fundamentals in. Playing characters you find fun and can win with is the ultimate goal, however.

 

[Kulty]

He picked . If he takes this training regimen, he'll soon learn why that wasn't a great decision... unless there is a buff next patch.
Just show him well rounded, basic characters. Here's a few examples to get you started-

C0rvus Yeah... I just did that, didn't I? Fixed.

Do you understand what it means to use moves in such unconventional ways and learning each special move properties? It's just that one thing that I don't really get what it means. Thanks for the character btw.

 

[Chalice]

I like being an aggressive player but my aggression tends to make me auto pilot very often and I end up forgetting to properly read my opponent and try to cover the proper options. This happens a lot when I play my current main,

Now, I believe myself to not exactly be a noob player since I've never gone 0-2 in tournament and even got to play with people like Mew2King and Slayerz and make them work (I still lost to Mew2King and made every game I've ever played with Slayerz super close), but I still feel like my neutral and my reads are lacking.

But putting that aside, let's forget about that since that's another topic. What I really want advice on is what character most fits my playstyle? I may or may not end up maining the character you guys suggest but I'd really like thoughts on this.

Since I want to be aggressive but I end up playing poor due to aforementioned reasons, I think I play at my best as a bait and punish style.