The Lycia Alliance: Roy Legacy Support Thread

[Kirbyfan391]

I think it'd be better to have an option like Roy(revamped/cloned) rather than two separate options. Not only would that be more convenient, but I doubt the same people voting for "Roy(cloned)" wouldn't also vote for "Roy(revamped)".

 

[Spazzy_D]

According to @PushDustIn's research, it looks like our boy Roy is the 5th most wanted DLC character in Japan!

 

[Knux27]

According to @PushDustIn's research, it looks like our boy Roy is the 5th most wanted DLC character in Japan!

I was actually going to post this. Here's a link for anyone who is interested.
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/perception-of-smash-dlc-in-japan/

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Good ole Japanese fanbase. They've always supported Roy in big numbers.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I'm just glad the Japanese have brains.

 

[N3ON]

He used to be number 2 tho.

 

[Croph]

I suppose that was because most people assumed all Brawl vets (and ICs) were returning, so they went crazy for Mewtwo and Roy pre-Smash 4. Now that we have some cuts, you could see the shift in popularity to them, though Roy's still pretty popular too (perhaps the addition of Lucina may have made some people iffy on seeing him return, who knows). Then there's characters like K. Rool, who I guess was creeping in popularity all along (we knew he was always a popular choice anyway).

After all these years Roy still has decent popularity (both in the West and Japan), which I'm glad to see. And the Japanese really do love their vets. Look how many characters is beating out.

Haha, I wouldn't mind seeing Pichu return actually.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I suppose that was because most people assumed all Brawl vets (and ICs) were returning, so they went crazy for Mewtwo and Roy pre-Smash 4. Now that we have some cuts, you could see the shift in popularity to them, though Roy's still pretty popular too (perhaps the addition of Lucina may have made some people iffy on seeing him return, who knows). Then there's characters like K. Rool, who I guess was creeping in popularity all along (we knew he was always a popular choice anyway).

After all these years Roy still has decent popularity (both in the West and Japan), which I'm glad to see. And the Japanese really do love their vets. Look how many characters is beating out.

Haha, I wouldn't mind seeing Pichu return actually.

Even with Bowser Jr.'s lame alt and Lucina there's still a lot of roylavency. We got this.

 

[Croph]

Oh yeah, even before Smash 4, people used to throw out arguments like, "Roy's irrelevant!" or "He's a flavour of the month character!", which never really made sense, but y'know how people are sometimes lol.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Oh yeah, even before Smash 4, people used to throw out arguments like, "Roy's irrelevant!" or "He's a flavour of the month character!", which never really made sense, but y'know how people are sometimes lol.

Flavor of the month makes me laugh so ****ing hard. I don't see how that'd apply to people wanting a DLC character, I've only seen that term used for people who say they have flavor of the month mains like I sometimes do. If someone wants Isaac, Roy, K. Rool, Lucas, etc., they're eternal supporters for them. People who argue against character DLC can really be tools who want to make up excuses or nonexistent reasons sometimes.

Roy has some obstacles with relevancy, but I'd say FE13 DLC and a new FE coming is good enough, there's so much that can be done by Nintendo to promote him (Earthbound treatment for FE6 since FE7's already on the eshop) as well. Even just throwbacks to FE7 in his moveset and mentions to them in his trophies if FE6 isn't localized would work to boost FE sales.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Roy flavor of the month? People seriously used that argument for a character that's existed for 14 years?

Relevancy I can understand, but if Ike can get in Smash 4....

 

[Knux27]

Even with Bowser Jr.'s lame alt and Lucina there's still a lot of roylavency. We got this.

For a moment, I thought you disliked all of the Koopaling's alts for Bowser Jr. Then I used my brain and reread the sentence.

 

[Sakuraichu]

"At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics." Let's take a look at Roy's two attack animations from FE:BB.

This doesn't look familiar at all.
*Holds flame shield*

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

"At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics." Let's take a look at Roy's two attack animations from FE:BB.

This doesn't look familiar at all.
*Holds flame shield*

Don't forget the epic **** he does in the FE6 manga. Or his Awakening appearance and stuff he could borrow from that. Or how he could borrow from his father and other Elibe heroes.

You also forgot his critical rapier attack animation, his ranged magic sword animation, and his ranged Sword of Seals animation.

Sakurai done goofed with his excuses, but Awakening doesn't need three characters anyways. Two is already half the current SSB representation for one game out of thirteen, Roy would actually be one of our best bets to combat that. Sakurai probably realized that and that's probably just relevant for Robin > Chrom to represent the newest game. And then he adds Lucina anyways, so I can't really take that seriously in the first place, though the three clones were a nice, free treat near the end of development. I think he's just biased after seeing the Palutena's Guidance conversation with Chrom/Robin, either just being an idiot or goofing around I don't think Roy's chances are hurt by Chrom or Lucina.

As long as more people talk (mail, email, miiverse, etc.) about a revamped Roy then I'm sure Sakurai would like the idea. If you want him to be unique, I think you should join us in mailing/emailing stuff on it to the addresses in the OP and helping us on Miiverse. Mention how you would want Roy's return to be handled, and solutions to "lacking unique characteristics."

 

[Kirbyfan391]

"At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics." Let's take a look at Roy's two attack animations from FE:BB.

This doesn't look familiar at all.
*Holds flame shield*

Good call on the flame shield. It's appropriate, against flamed swords

Look at the quote again, "another plain-old sword wielder like Marth and Ike". So this means this applies to Marth and Ike as well, right? But we know they're somehow exempt from this since they're in the game. Why? Simply put, because they're veterans. So is Roy. Ergo this argument doesn't apply to Roy.
Adding a new character is not the same as bringing them back.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I did terribly in Melee/PM brackets this weekend, but still had a lot of close matches and dominated in friendlies with Roy. I got a few people hyped for him, hopefully they're now supporters.

...And then I manage to place 2nd in the game that doesn't have Roy. I'm a terrible representative of him </3

 

[Kirbyfan391]

I did terribly in Melee/PM brackets this weekend, but still had a lot of close matches and dominated in friendlies with Roy. I got a few people hyped for him, hopefully they're now supporters.

...And then I manage to place 2nd in the game that doesn't have Roy. I'm a terrible representative of him </3

Which game? Smash 4? If you beat Roy Koopa on the way then I'd say that was good representation nevertheless

 

[Swamp Sensei]

"At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics." Let's take a look at Roy's two attack animations from FE:BB.

This doesn't look familiar at all.
*Holds flame shield*

That just gave me an idea for a special where Roy coats his sword in flame so it does more damage and knockback temporarily.

Your criticism of his uniqueness inspired me to make something unique.

 

[The Revolutionary Cafe]

That just gave me an idea for a special where Roy coats his sword in flame so it does more damage and knockback temporarily.

So something like Shulk's manado arts? What would the weakness(es) be?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So something like Shulk's manado arts? What would the weakness(es) be?

Not sure.

Perhaps he can slowly hurt himself for short period of time.

 

[Wintropy]

I like the idea of the flaming sword. What if it acts like a full-charged Flare Blade for all hits while active?

To wit: his smashes become much stronger and explosive, but he takes scaled-up recoil damage based on the strength of the move. So the longer he charges the smash, the more powerful the explosion, but the more severe the subsequent self-harm?

 

[Kirbyfan391]

I like the idea of a temporary flame upgrade too.

But besides recoil damage, another alternative weakness I may suggest for this is that after the flame effect wears off, Roy's attacks become weaker than usual for a temporary amount as well, this would be played off as Roy(or his sword more like) being "tired".

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Which game? Smash 4? If you beat Roy Koopa on the way then I'd say that was good representation nevertheless

Yep, Smash 4. Didn't even get to run a train on people via Melee Doubles. There's no Bowser Jr. mains I know of in CO, just people who bull**** around with him for fun every now and then. None of the PR players are listed with him, which is a huge relifef to me. I'm worried about them picking the Roy koopaling alt on me and beating me.

Not sure.

Perhaps he can slowly hurt himself for short period of time.

I like the idea of the flaming sword. What if it acts like a full-charged Flare Blade for all hits while active?

To wit: his smashes become much stronger and explosive, but he takes scaled-up recoil damage based on the strength of the move. So the longer he charges the smash, the more powerful the explosion, but the more severe the subsequent self-harm?

Sorry @ Wintropy I missed using that quote so I had to use the ghetto-quote option.

I like the temporary flame upgrade idea, but if he hurts himself over time or per move, I can see a bunch of people treating him as the Pichu of the game or complaining about him using the Pichu mechanic. I do like it, though. Paired with the rage mechanic, it could be devastating, so I personally would utilize it to its fullest, especially since I live to ridiculous % often and just want to get more ridiculous.

I like the idea of a temporary flame upgrade too.

But besides recoil damage, another alternative weakness I may suggest for this is that after the flame effect wears off, Roy's attacks become weaker than usual for a temporary amount as well, this would be played off as Roy(or his sword more like) being "tired".

He ain't Thracia but I also wouldn't mind fatigue.

But I'll let people complain about damage. If it's as badass as Brawl Minus's Ike:

(skip to 1:19 if the video doesn't automatically)

then it's all I would need. People can complain about it all they want, they'd just be stupid if they brought Pichu into it. No offense to my Johto friend just to the people who make a big deal out of them.

 

[FalKoopa]

Coming in to say that I support, but Lucina honestly crushed any hopes for him. If anyone can give a counter-argument, I'll be more optimistic about him.

My idea to utilise his Fire mechanic would go be something like this.
Roy's sword can have 5 levels of charge with increasing damage and knockback. For every single time he hits the opponent with his sword, his sword powers up by one level, while every missed attack powers his sword down by one.

How about it?

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Coming in to say that I support, but Lucina honestly crushed any hopes for him. If anyone can give a counter-argument, I'll be more optimistic about him.

My idea to utilise his Fire mechanic would go be something like this.
Roy's sword can have 5 levels of charge with increasing damage and knockback. For every single time he hits the opponent with his sword, his sword powers up by one level, while every missed attack powers his sword down by one.

How about it?

I don't have a counter argument for Lucina and Roy, but I honestly think they'd be neat side-by-side. I was hoping Lucina would play like a Roy replacement and she's just a cheap happy meal solution for that. That's what it's like whenever I talk to people who tried to use Lucina as a reminiscient character of Roy and how I feel. She just doesn't work as a Roy replacement to the fanbase. Marth would be for tips, Roy would be for center-blade, and Lucina would be an in-between which I think would be neat and cater to a lot of swordsman players. I think if Sakurai knows this, he'll be more inclined to support Roy. I've always felt like a decloned Roy would be as different as, say, the difference between Marth and Ike, and even if he wasn't really decloned I'd be fine with it, though a lot of people would be unhappy since the general consensus is that clones are bad and we'd see more of his personal character for decloning so I'm leaning largely towards the Falco/Luigi/Ganon treatment, or the Bowser/Pit treatment.

Anything that makes Roy more unique in Smash helps. I'd still main him no matter what if he returned.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Coming in to say that I support, but Lucina honestly crushed any hopes for him. If anyone can give a counter-argument, I'll be more optimistic about him.

My idea to utilise his Fire mechanic would go be something like this.
Roy's sword can have 5 levels of charge with increasing damage and knockback. For every single time he hits the opponent with his sword, his sword powers up by one level, while every missed attack powers his sword down by one.

How about it?

Similar to what Royvolution Ream said above me, Roy could work well in a 'trinity' character archetype, that is, three characters loosely based on a similar style to each other, but different enough to feel like their own character in their own right. Examples include Ryu, Ken and Akuma in the Street Fighter series, and in the Super Smash Bros, we see this present in characters like , ; sharing similar neutral and recovery moves, but entirely different play style. We've also got the situation present in the Star Fox characters, and , all possessing similar special attacks, but performed completely differently and possessing different play styles. With this in mind, Marth is the one focused on spacing and dealing more damage at the tip of his blade, Roy is focused on getting up close and personal like a rushdown fighter and dealing stronger attacks at the base of his sword, and Lucina being a balance between the two.

And based on what Swampasaur proposed with Roy activating the Sword of Seals for extra crispy damage, it gave me the idea of Roy becoming a sort of 'stance' based fighter, that is, Roy carries both the Sword of Seals and his blade from Awakening, and swapping out the two with a down-special, affecting the properties of his attacks.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

There is one weak point in the Sword of Seals hurting Roy, being that it actually heals him if used as a usage item. That could work in some way as a ying-yang relationship with it hurting him if Smash did the idea, though.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Sword of Seals also has limited usage, and I believe breaks after awhile, while that's better translated with my idea of the sword going limp(this probably sounded a bit pretentious, sorry about that), it also works with the sword hurting Roy.

 

[Croph]

Coming in to say that I support, but Lucina honestly crushed any hopes for him. If anyone can give a counter-argument, I'll be more optimistic about him.

My idea to utilise his Fire mechanic would go be something like this.
Roy's sword can have 5 levels of charge with increasing damage and knockback. For every single time he hits the opponent with his sword, his sword powers up by one level, while every missed attack powers his sword down by one.

How about it?

In what way does Lucina crush your hopes?

I personally think both characters don't have that much bearings on each other.

Don't forget the epic **** he does in the FE6 manga.

Roy's Final Smash:

^pretend Roy's sword is the SoS

 

[FalKoopa]

In what way does Lucina crush your hopes?

I personally think both characters don't have that much bearings on each other.

Two Marth clones seems a bit much. Mario can get away with Luigi and Doc, Fire Emblem is kind of small for that.

 

[Croph]

Two Marth clones seems a bit much. Mario can get away with Luigi and Doc, Fire Emblem is kind of small for that.

At this point in the game, I don't look at franchise "repping" too much, especially when it comes to how many fighters a franchise could have.

There's unbalance in regards to the representation of various series, thanks to perhaps Sakurai's bias and other factors. I don't think they could get any lower than this, so I don't see Roy as a bad thing. And since Roy's already been in Smash, he's got many fans who like him for whatever reason (character, fire properties, reverse tipper/gameplay, etc.).

Perhaps I just don't care anymore. I had hopes to see a DK newcomer (and a lot more content), but nope. I also thought Sakurai would be wary of adding too many Mario fighters (since it's like the biggest & iconic franchise) and would show more modesty. But, nope, we got 2 newcomers and a returnee (but we know the whole clone story). Not to say they don't deserve to get in... I just always thought Sakurai's modest when it came to Mario. Maybe I've read an article in the past, idk why I thought that. But I guess I'm wrong.

Anyway, that's just my view, Sakurai may think differently. He might think 2 Marth clones may be too much, who knows. Honestly, if a character very popularly requested, I have little qualms if they get in (regardless if they might be clone-ish). Smash is a game all about fanservice, no?

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

There's also Mewtwo being DLC despite how many reps Pokemon already has, even if Pokemon sells like crack cocaine.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

There's also Mewtwo being DLC despite how many reps Pokemon already has, even if Pokemon sells like crack cocaine.

It arguably lost a rep before Mewtwo though.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

It arguably lost a rep before Mewtwo though.

Two, I almost brought up Squirtle/Ivy. Three if Pokemon Trainer or Pichu counts, four if both count. I would say we need a blood sacrifice for Roy, but Ike's too cool.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Nintendo has too many franchises to even feasibly "rep" all of them equally. I never understood why repping is given so much credit in Smash speculation.

 

[Knux27]

Speaking of Ike, who was expecting him to return to Smash 4?

I was expecting him to be cut.

Something I might be attacked over is that I was hoping he would be cut too. Please here me out. I just grew tired of Ike in Brawl and knew that if he returned I would reluctantly play him again. Thankfully, I got over this, I think it was due to Project M, and now play Ike as one of my secondaries in Smash 4. Ironically, Marth, the swordsman I couldn't get good with in Melee, Brawl, or Project M, is now one of my mains. This is all due to Lucina getting into the game, allowing me to get good with the moveset, and then trying Marth and landing tippers. Now Lucina is only used in laggy online matches with me, and only if I need Marth's playstyle for the fight.

Now speaking of Roy, I think I would like his playstyle more than I already like Marths. By this, I mean that I think Roy's sweetspot fits my playstyle better than Marths tippers. However, even with Lucina being a safe alternative to the Hero King and Our Boy, Lucina feels too easy to play. It is more rewarding imo to play as a swordsman who has power concentrated at one point than equally divided throughout the blade. Nothing against Lucina, I'm eternally grateful for her inclusion teaching me Marth, I just favor playing every other FE character in Smash.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I expected Ike to be cut with Chrom as a newcomer to be the most logical outcome pre-release. I was always hoping they would add the Tactician in, and that they'd favor them over Chrom/Lucina if they had to. Wish granted even though Robin doesn't fit me, he/she's still my most hyped newcomer both pre-release and now.

Since PoR/RD aren't relevant for Nintendo making $$$ anymore and Ike made it back, I have faith in Roy. Ike wasn't cut after his poster boy role for the newest FE releases ended. The argument people use for Roy's role ending long ago doesn't really phase me now, and there could be a decent amount of money from an FE6 localization or remake.

Another idea I had was that buying Roy's DLC chapter in Awakening would give a DLC code for Wii U and another for 3DS. The localization could give codes, and a remake could contain in-box DLC codes.

 

[FalKoopa]

I had faith in Ike's chances., mostly because he was not a clone and Toon Link (another popular cut-candidate) had come back unscathed.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I had faith in Ike's chances., mostly because he was not a clone and Toon Link (another popular cut-candidate) had come back unscathed.

If you want Roy to avoid clone status (whether you're against, for, or neutral on him) then there's nothing wrong with including your stance on Roy (for, against, or neutral) in e-mail, snail mail, or Miiverse while mentioning that, if he does return, you'd rather not see two Marth clones, and that you'd be against or more against him returning as such. Mention any ideas you have for unique moves or repurposing of old moves, a general design for Roy, and stuff like that. If we send in enough of our views on what a returning Roy could be like, we're not necessarily doomed to just seeing a Marth clone.

 

[FalKoopa]

If you want Roy to avoid clone status (whether you're against, for, or neutral on him) then there's nothing wrong with including your stance on Roy (for, against, or neutral) in e-mail, snail mail, or Miiverse while mentioning that, if he does return, you'd rather not see two Marth clones, and that you'd be against or more against him returning as such. Mention any ideas you have for unique moves or repurposing of old moves, a general design for Roy, and stuff like that. If we send in enough of our views on what a returning Roy could be like, we're not necessarily doomed to just seeing a Marth clone.

Uniqueness would be nice, of course, but I don't mind him being cloney.

Can we do something on the scale of the Kremling Kampaign though, I wonder? Roy's popularity in Japan does give us a head start.