The Lucas Weekly Matchup discussion is currently discussing Ganondorf.

[Blackbelt]

I am unfamiliar with this matchup, and since I'm actually interested in this matchup, so I am here to ask your opinions about this matchup.


Link here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183767


I thank you for your time.

 

[Gleam]

This match up is probably neutral really where if any of them had the advantage, it would be a simple 6:4.

Ganon's longer and stronger attacks give him the advantage, as does his heavy weight. Plus it's possible to gimp Lucas' recovery.

Lucas has a projectile, less laggier attacks and while I probably wouldn't know who could gimp who better, I'm sure Lucas do some damage to Ganon's recovery.

I think I can confindently say that Ganon's ground game> Lucas' ground game. Perhaps not by much, but just due to the fact that it contains better reach and KO power, probably a slight advantage in priority. At the very least Ganon can just space himself accordingly on the ground too.

In the air, Lucas could have the advantage. But I think Ganon's quick, longer reaching aerials like Nair and Uair could prove a bit troublesome to Lucas.

That's my two cents. Not saying I'm entirely correct or anything.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

i would say the matchup is 6:4 in lucas' favor.

One is the main reasons being ganon has problems with projecties, and lucas has a good one: PK fire.
Though not really used for approaching, it helps space properly makes it really difficult for ganon to approach lucas. It could also act as a brickwall and force ganon to try an aerial appraoach (ew...).
Ganons recovery just screams PK thunder for the gimp. i'm pretty sure it's almost nothing he can do about the pk thunder once he is off the stage. A Ganon main could clarify that one for me, as i'm not completely sure.
on the ground he definitely outranges you and if you aren't aware of the IASA frames of his Usmash, you'll be in trouble. Ganon is not as slow as people think he is, and underestimating his speed will surely cost you in the long run. Both characters will have trouble approcahing, but i think lucas will have an easier time. We can't forget that ganon is strong. Really strong. correct me if i'm wrong but his Fsmash usually kills Lucas around 70%-80%. His stomp onstage kills around 100% fresh. offstage like 10% >_>. if it takes you too long to strike up a pk thunder offstage and ganon is near. you probably will lose a stock. tether recovery might help though.
The matchup looks pretty even with it leaning a little towards Lucas' side.
Sorry this post was so unorganized, my thoughts just kept coming

 

[Gleam]

I also noticed some of the reasons for the 6:4 on the Ike match up on the Lucas board.

Ganon's recovery is far less easy to gimp than Ike's recovery.

Some people may disagree here, but I'm highly confident that Ganon does in fact have faster and less laggier attacks than Ike does.

 

[hyperstation]

edit: posted in wrong thread. moved to diddy matchup thread.

 

[Gleam]

I should probabably also mention that Ganon has a release grab on Lucas.

If Lucas mearly breaks away from Ganon, Ganon can use a Neutral A on Lucas before his shield can even come out.

If Lucas jumps away, Ganon can use a Wizard's Foot. This second one can be harder to pull off but its possible.

 

[Swoops]

Lucas is a real annoyance to Ganon. PK Fire is the main cause of this. Projectiles are the bane of Ganondorf and PK Fire is a pretty good one. Lucas is going to need to rely on this a lot through the match to frustrate the Ganon enough into approaching, which is definitely not his strong suit. But the match can't be won alone on PK Fires.

Ganon actually happens to out range Lucas in pretty much every area. Ganon does have a little bit laggier attacks but I don't think Lucas is one known for punishing laggier attacks but rather approaches. Two of his good KO attacks are pretty much built for punishing silly approaches (U-Smash and F-Smash, d-smash as well probably but I don't know Lucas that well.) F-Smash is quick though but if it's shielded Ganon can actually punish it pretty hard, as well as a misplaced u-smash. Ganon punishes Lucas' mistakes well and out ranges him with powerful KO moves like f-air, f-tilt, f-smash, and DA. However, Lucas does really well in an important part of this match up. He can effectively shut down Ganon's thunderstorm game. Like I said, Lucas punishes approaches hard, and U-Smash and U-Tilt kill stomp. Frankly, it's really f*cking annoying.

Edgeguarding is really a 50-50 here. Ganon has a good edgeguarding game, yet has horrible recovery. If you're Lucas, you better be on top of your game with recovery. You miss a sweetspot, or start PK Thunder too close to the stage, and that could easily be your stock. Edgeguarding Ganon...I don't have much advice, his recovery sucks, that's all there is to it lol.

All in all, it seems like the match for Lucas is stopping Ganondorf from working any of his game, but its hard for Lucas to get anything going against the Dorf. PK Fire, U-Tilt, U-Smash, F-Smash, and F-Tilt are most of the key moves for shutting down Ganon. But that's the thing, once you shut him down...there's no where to go from there. You have to get your kills from shutting him down too. Lucas is frustrating. But Ganon has reach, power, priority, and some nasty punishing against a lot of your moves, so be careful.

Oh, sh*t almost forgot N-Air...yea N-Air annoys Ganon like none other.

60-40 Lucas.
(I will love the day when I can actually type 60-40 in Ganon's favor and not feel like I should change it because everybody will look at me weird.)

 

[Gleam]

(I will love the day when I can actually type 60-40 in Ganon's favor and not feel like I should change it because everybody will look at me weird.)

Captain Falcon

Jigglypuff

Link

Bowser

Samus

Sheik

Wario (If being able to get a free Fsmash on Wario on KOing him at 60% means anything)

The first two are pretty much true. Ganon>>Falcon ad Jigglypuff. Many of the others I could give a good argument to. Ganon's got some advantages believe it or not.

 

[Swoops]

Of course he does, but in almost every other match up thread they will automatically put something like..."well...he's Ganondorf." I just hope to bring some rep to Ganon. Bowser is a pure playground match for Ganon. He's just plain nasty to the turtle.

But I've actually seconded a lot of those characters for a time being, and I can tell you Jiggz and Samus are not ones to be f*cked with. Jiggz does get destroyed by Ganon though, Gerudo>DA=death at like 75%.

I meant I feel that Ganon should get a little more rep in his favor so the masses can take him a little more seriously. Not that everybody doesn't take him seriously, I know a hell of a lot that do, but people need to look at the match ups a little better.

Oh, I don't think I need to tell Lucas players this, but f-tilt and f-smash both stop his gerudo game pretty quick. There it is again, all the things to stop Ganondorf, but almost nothing to build off the stops. Over time, Ganon can start to get inside and f*ck you up.

 

[LinkSceptile333]

5:5

It's a really close match. Both of their recoveries are easily gimped, and while Lucas does have projectiles, although they can be quickly spot dodged, especially between the difference of Lucas' PK Fire with Ness' PK Fire. But, with some of Ganondorf's after-lag of some of his moves, he can get punished with Lucas' Projectiles. Two out of Lucas' Three Smashes have somewhat bad after-lag (Usmash + Dsmash) and Ganondorf can set up his Thunderstorming or other quick moves. Reocvery wise, they both are pretty bad, and easily edge-guarded for both characters. The problem with Lucas though, is his startup lag for his Up Special recovery, depending on the spacing, Ganondorf can easily spike him with his Dair.

Overall, a really close match. If not even, then 6:4 in Lucas' favor.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I've played against a Lucas at a tourney (3des), and I was just simply just too afraid of using Ganondorf against him because I was completely aware he liked FD, and would spam PK Fire on me all day.

From what I observed from his Lucas, spotdodging can be really dangerous against Lucas because his D-smash is pretty powerful and lasts forever. Only spotdodge PK Fire.

PK Thunder is really gay on Ganondorf's recovery. Not quite so hot for actually recovering since it's easily edgehogged, but it gets good distance and moves fast.

I'd say the matchup is definitely in Lucas's favor, mainly because he's better at camping, and Ganondorf suffers more from gimps in this matchup.

 

[Blackbelt]

Lucas is a real annoyance to Ganon. PK Fire is the main cause of this. Projectiles are the bane of Ganondorf and PK Fire is a pretty good one. Lucas is going to need to rely on this a lot through the match to frustrate the Ganon enough into approaching, which is definitely not his strong suit. But the match can't be won alone on PK Fires.

Ganon actually happens to out range Lucas in pretty much every area. Ganon does have a little bit laggier attacks but I don't think Lucas is one known for punishing laggier attacks but rather approaches. Two of his good KO attacks are pretty much built for punishing silly approaches (U-Smash and F-Smash, d-smash as well probably but I don't know Lucas that well.) F-Smash is quick though but if it's shielded Ganon can actually punish it pretty hard, as well as a misplaced u-smash. Ganon punishes Lucas' mistakes well and out ranges him with powerful KO moves like f-air, f-tilt, f-smash, and DA. However, Lucas does really well in an important part of this match up. He can effectively shut down Ganon's thunderstorm game. Like I said, Lucas punishes approaches hard, and U-Smash and U-Tilt kill stomp. Frankly, it's really f*cking annoying.

Edgeguarding is really a 50-50 here. Ganon has a good edgeguarding game, yet has horrible recovery. If you're Lucas, you better be on top of your game with recovery. You miss a sweetspot, or start PK Thunder too close to the stage, and that could easily be your stock. Edgeguarding Ganon...I don't have much advice, his recovery sucks, that's all there is to it lol.

All in all, it seems like the match for Lucas is stopping Ganondorf from working any of his game, but its hard for Lucas to get anything going against the Dorf. PK Fire, U-Tilt, U-Smash, F-Smash, and F-Tilt are most of the key moves for shutting down Ganon. But that's the thing, once you shut him down...there's no where to go from there. You have to get your kills from shutting him down too. Lucas is frustrating. But Ganon has reach, power, priority, and some nasty punishing against a lot of your moves, so be careful.

Oh, sh*t almost forgot N-Air...yea N-Air annoys Ganon like none other.

60-40 Lucas.
(I will love the day when I can actually type 60-40 in Ganon's favor and not feel like I should change it because everybody will look at me weird.)

You mind if I steal most of this as the summary I post on the Lucas board? This is good stuff.


And of course, I will credit you.

 

[Swoops]

Yea, go ahead, glad to help.