The King of Knights - Saber Artoria for Smash Support Thread

Sysmek

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Is Babylonia on what streaming service? Also, when are the Camelot movies going to air?
Its on Funimation (since Aniplex US and Funi merged)

Ep 0 is on crunchyroll but thats about it atm, youd have to go on Funimation for the rest (or get them through other means)

First Camelot movie airs May 2020, around the time the Final Heavens Feel movie will air. Babylonia will end around April 2020

Its a great time to be a Type-Moon fan

Also, did you guys hear? Mahoyo/Mahoutsukai no Yoru has another fan translation underway, and its already 50% complete. Its working off of McJons Ch. 1-7 Translation, so theyre halfway done with the rest of Mahoyo (Ch. 8-13 + Omake Chapters)

http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthrea...no-Yoru-French-to-English-Translation-Project

Thats the link to the project. They have a discord where they discuss the translation and various other things about TM as well as post updates. Its a French to English translation, so if you guys know French you might be able to lend a hand if you ask


Heres the most recent status update from a few days ago. They think theyll be able to finish before the end of the year
 

Smasherfan88

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Is Babylonia on what streaming service? Also, when are the Camelot movies going to air?
What Sysmek said, that said the movies aren't airing on TV I believe since they're... well... movies. Gonna have to wait for them to release as Blu-rays or something and wait for someone to put them on Kissanime unless you want to wait longer for the NA releases.
 
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Sysmek

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What Sysmek said, that said the movies aren't airing on TV I believe since they're... well... movies. Gonna have to wait for them to release as Blu-rays or something and wait for someone to put them on Kissanime unless you want to wait longer for the NA releases.
Could always import. 9 times out of 10 JP Blu-Rays have english subs. Theyre also cheaper than US Blurays as Aniplex gives JP the option to buy the non limited edition Blu Rays
 

Smasherfan88

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Could always import. 9 times out of 10 JP Blu-Rays have english subs. Theyre also cheaper than US Blurays as Aniplex gives JP the option to buy the non limited edition Blu Rays
Fair enough, might have to pay a bit extra though due to overseas imports usually have a fee for that, though shouldn't make it all that much more expensive.
 

Itsasomeone

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What would her stage be like? Any unique mechanics to it. What would the music tracks be?

I personally would see Ryuudou Temple being the stage as that's were a lot of important battles happened in Fate/Stay Night. I see it as a Midgar type stage where the layout is kinda simple but summon mark's appear throughout the stage and when activated, a servant will appear and do something to change the stage.
Lancer would charge up and fire a big AOE blast in the form of Gae Bolg similar to Bahamut Zero.
Caster fires many magic blast all over the stage, perhaps even changing the stage's layout.
Assassin does quick but very telegraphed slashes. If you're hit by one of them you'll likely be instantly K.O'd.
Rider would use Geal Force for a few dive bombing attacks.
Berserker would just be a stage boss. A very HARD stage boss.
Gilgamesh would rain down weapons and you'll have to find cover before he's done charging the attack.
Archer would do his iconic prayer and completely changes the stage to Unlimited Blade Works for a while before reverting back.

As for music, I'm not that familiar with it but The Sword of Promised Victory and EMIYA should absolutely be part of the music.
 

Artix

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What would her stage be like? Any unique mechanics to it. What would the music tracks be?

I personally would see Ryuudou Temple being the stage as that's were a lot of important battles happened in Fate/Stay Night. I see it as a Midgar type stage where the layout is kinda simple but summon mark's appear throughout the stage and when activated, a servant will appear and do something to change the stage.
Lancer would charge up and fire a big AOE blast in the form of Gae Bolg similar to Bahamut Zero.
Caster fires many magic blast all over the stage, perhaps even changing the stage's layout.
Assassin does quick but very telegraphed slashes. If you're hit by one of them you'll likely be instantly K.O'd.
Rider would use Geal Force for a few dive bombing attacks.
Berserker would just be a stage boss. A very HARD stage boss.
Gilgamesh would rain down weapons and you'll have to find cover before he's done charging the attack.
Archer would do his iconic prayer and completely changes the stage to Unlimited Blade Works for a while before reverting back.

As for music, I'm not that familiar with it but The Sword of Promised Victory and EMIYA should absolutely be part of the music.
Ryuudou Temple is great and all, but I think Fuyuki City would make more sense as her home stage.

I personally want it to be a roaming stage like Delfino Plaza, where you're in a floating platform as it travels to various landmarks of the city (Emiya Residence, Tohsaka Mansion, Fuyuki Bridge, Ryuudou Temple, etc.)

You know, Archer's UBW would be awesome, but I gotta wonder, what would happen if a Stage Morph took place right after Archer changes the stage to UBW?
 
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Sysmek

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Ryuudou Temple is great and all, but I think Fuyuki City would make more sense as her home stage.

I personally want it to be a roaming stage like Delfino Plaza, where you're in a floating platform as it travels to various landmarks of the city (Emiya Residence, Tohsaka Mansion, Fuyuki Bridge, Ryuudou Temple, etc.)

You know, Archer's UBW would be awesome, but I gotta wonder, what would happen if a Stage Morph took place right after Archer changes the stage to UBW?
Idk, what would happen if you used a Reality Marble inside a Reality Marble
 

Shishœ

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Two things
1) I'll be passing the thread to another user Soon™. I won't be around here much more so I feel like it should go for someone who'll use the site more than I do.

2) The last thing I'll do is update the moveset because I have finished it and I actually like it
Overview
Saber would be a refined yet powerful swordfighter. While she wields Excalibur in two hands, she slashes it around with the swiftness of the wind. With her many skills and Excalibur's limited wind manipulation, she makes for a nimble and quick fighter that can still deliver decisive strikes.
Her idle stance would be based off her Extella idle pose when Invisible Wind is deactivated.
For her entrance animation, she'd be summoned right out of a summoning circle as the wind blows around her.

Normals

Jab: Saber slashes her sword in a downward arc without leaving her stance, pressing the button again will make her step forward and follow up with an upwards slash
Side Tilt: with only her left hand, she slashes Exalibur horizontally in front of her.
Up Tilt: similarly to Cloud's Up Tilt, Saber slashes above her head in an arcing motion.
Down Tilt: while crouching, she performs a diagonal stab into the ground in front of her.
Dash Attack: Saber spins horizontally and does circular slash around her body, hitting opponents in front of and behind her.

Aerials

Neutral Air: Saber turns her body 90° towards or away from the camera and spins multiple times while holding her sword out in a multi-hit attack.
Forward Air: Saber slashes downwards with both hands, similarly to Cloud's FAir, though this move doesn't spike, Saber will spin and continue holding the sword out until it reaches below her as she rotates back into position.
Back Air: Saber turns upside down as she slashes her sword behind her. This
Up Air: Saber slashes above her with one hand.
Down Air: Saber stabs downwards before releasing a gust of wind out of Excalibur which will stall her in the air a bit and also spikes opponents if it connects with the sword.

Smash Attacks
Forward Smash: Saber stabs forward as her sword glows and releases a tornado out of it. The tornado is a multi hit move which autocombos out of the initial stab.
Up Smash: Saber drags her sword along the ground and slashes upwards while jumping.
Down Smash: Saber spins around in place once while slashing the ground around her.


Specials

Neutral Special - Mana Burst: Excalibur glows stronger and Saber strikes in front of her, releasing an energy beam from her sword that travels forward. This move can be charged by holding down the button, though the charge cannot be canceled or stored, much like Greninja's Water Shuriken. If used in the ground, the projectile will become bigger and stronger, and will travel alongside the ground.

Side Special - Intuition: Saber dashes forward while holding her sword behind her. Pressing the button again will have her instantly dash forward a small distance while performing a slash that will hit opponents behind her. Saber is invincible during the first few frames after pressing the button again, only becoming tangible again after crossing up the opponent. While this move is useful as a pseudo-counter and to approach opponents, it's easy to punish if missed as there's no hitbox in front of Saber and has considerable endlag. Additionally, the dash can be potentially used as a fake out due to its relatively low end lag if the sword hit isn't used.

Up Special - Rising King: Saber points her sword downwards and launches a beam out of it, propelling herself upwards in a slight diagonal angle. Pressing the button again will have her perform a slash at its apex but at the cost of halting all her momentum.

Down B - Command Seal:
Saber has 3 Command Seals per stock, which only recover after respawning, much like Wonderwing. When the button is pressed, Saber will enter a stance and a red aura will surround her,
There are 3 Commands Saber can be given, determined by how long the button is held.
Simply tapping it will give Saber a Mana Burst effect, which has an initial hitbox similar to Rebel's Guard and will slightly boost her speed in exchange for some defense and weight.
Holding it long enough to use two Seals will heal Saber for a fair amount and temporarily reduce the damage she receives. This will also remove the Mana Burst effect.
Fully charging it to use up all seals will teleport Saber in a red flash right behind the opponent, no matter where they are on the stage.


Final Smash - Excalibur, Sword of Promised Victory
Saber holds her sword above her head, it begins to glow more intensely and energy is drawn to it, as she begins to declare her Noble Phantasm's name, she brings her sword down as a giant beam of light is released out of her sword and travels forward, damaging any opponents in front of her before launching them away as a pillar of light forms where her target once stood.
"Ex...calibuuurr!"
 
D

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Two things
1) I'll be passing the thread to another user Soon™. I won't be around here much more so I feel like it should go for someone who'll use the site more than I do.

2) The last thing I'll do is update the moveset because I have finished it and I actually like it
Overview
Saber would be a refined yet powerful swordfighter. While she wields Excalibur in two hands, she slashes it around with the swiftness of the wind. With her many skills and Excalibur's limited wind manipulation, she makes for a nimble and quick fighter that can still deliver decisive strikes.
Her idle stance would be based off her Extella idle pose when Invisible Wind is deactivated.
For her entrance animation, she'd be summoned right out of a summoning circle as the wind blows around her.

Normals

Jab: Saber slashes her sword in a downward arc without leaving her stance, pressing the button again will make her step forward and follow up with an upwards slash
Side Tilt: with only her left hand, she slashes Exalibur horizontally in front of her.
Up Tilt: similarly to Cloud's Up Tilt, Saber slashes above her head in an arcing motion.
Down Tilt: while crouching, she performs a diagonal stab into the ground in front of her.
Dash Attack: Saber spins horizontally and does circular slash around her body, hitting opponents in front of and behind her.

Aerials

Neutral Air: Saber turns her body 90° towards or away from the camera and spins multiple times while holding her sword out in a multi-hit attack.
Forward Air: Saber slashes downwards with both hands, similarly to Cloud's FAir, though this move doesn't spike, Saber will spin and continue holding the sword out until it reaches below her as she rotates back into position.
Back Air: Saber turns upside down as she slashes her sword behind her. This
Up Air: Saber slashes above her with one hand.
Down Air: Saber stabs downwards before releasing a gust of wind out of Excalibur which will stall her in the air a bit and also spikes opponents if it connects with the sword.

Smash Attacks
Forward Smash: Saber stabs forward as her sword glows and releases a tornado out of it. The tornado is a multi hit move which autocombos out of the initial stab.
Up Smash: Saber drags her sword along the ground and slashes upwards while jumping.
Down Smash: Saber spins around in place once while slashing the ground around her.


Specials

Neutral Special - Mana Burst: Excalibur glows stronger and Saber strikes in front of her, releasing an energy beam from her sword that travels forward. This move can be charged by holding down the button, though the charge cannot be canceled or stored, much like Greninja's Water Shuriken. If used in the ground, the projectile will become bigger and stronger, and will travel alongside the ground.

Side Special - Intuition: Saber dashes forward while holding her sword behind her. Pressing the button again will have her instantly dash forward a small distance while performing a slash that will hit opponents behind her. Saber is invincible during the first few frames after pressing the button again, only becoming tangible again after crossing up the opponent. While this move is useful as a pseudo-counter and to approach opponents, it's easy to punish if missed as there's no hitbox in front of Saber and has considerable endlag. Additionally, the dash can be potentially used as a fake out due to its relatively low end lag if the sword hit isn't used.

Up Special - Rising King: Saber points her sword downwards and launches a beam out of it, propelling herself upwards in a slight diagonal angle. Pressing the button again will have her perform a slash at its apex but at the cost of halting all her momentum.

Down B - Command Seal:
Saber has 3 Command Seals per stock, which only recover after respawning, much like Wonderwing. When the button is pressed, Saber will enter a stance and a red aura will surround her,
There are 3 Commands Saber can be given, determined by how long the button is held.
Simply tapping it will give Saber a Mana Burst effect, which has an initial hitbox similar to Rebel's Guard and will slightly boost her speed in exchange for some defense and weight.
Holding it long enough to use two Seals will heal Saber for a fair amount and temporarily reduce the damage she receives. This will also remove the Mana Burst effect.
Fully charging it to use up all seals will teleport Saber in a red flash right behind the opponent, no matter where they are on the stage.


Final Smash - Excalibur, Sword of Promised Victory
Saber holds her sword above her head, it begins to glow more intensely and energy is drawn to it, as she begins to declare her Noble Phantasm's name, she brings her sword down as a giant beam of light is released out of her sword and travels forward, damaging any opponents in front of her before launching them away as a pillar of light forms where her target once stood.
"Ex...calibuuurr!"
Dude how is that possible so I could go edit the Morrigan thread coz it doesn't look quite appealing. I mean, back there, there weren't too many supporters and I was like, "Did you even?"
 

Shishœ

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Dude how is that possible so I could go edit the Morrigan thread coz it doesn't look quite appealing. I mean, back there, there weren't too many supporters and I was like, "Did you even?"
The OP of the thread needs to consent to it and ask a mod to pass it on to the other person.
 

Smasherfan88

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But let's say the mod was AFK. What can I do? Create a new thread or what...
Think that depends on how long they've been inactive on the site for general or they just don't allow it. If its the former I'd assume the time limit would be a couple of months.
 
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D

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Think that depends on how long they've been inactive on the sight for general or they just don't allow it. If its the former I'd assume the time limit would be a couple of months.
Thanks for the info, though I'm quite curious as to how it would work.
 

Itsasomeone

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A definite consistent discussion on this thread is about what Saber's moveset would be like.
I would like to give my taste on what it would be by 1st posting this question "Do we only have to use the ORIGINAL Saber? Why can't we incorporate different versions of her into her moveset as well like Saber Lancer."

I see 2 ways of doing this idea.
1. Have her use the lance(I can't remember its name becuase ancient mythical weapons have weird names)for certain specials and maybe a few normals.
2.(more interesting one personally) Have her switch from the Excalibur moveset to the lance moveset via down B.

I think using more then just the original VN could help not only getting her a unique moveset but also have Saber be able to represent the Fate Series as a whole. Not just its origins. Doing this would also get alternate costumes of Saber Lancer and Saber Lancer Alter respectably among other costumes.

I know Saber Lancer is usually on a horse with a name but that isn't a requirement as we've seen Saber use a lance without being on a horse. Even if it was a requirement for some reason there have been fighting game characters who're on horses for their moveset.

P.S. if I were to choose 7 alts for Saber they would be....
1.Saber Alter
2.Saber Lily
3.Casual Clothes from FSN
4.MHX
5.MHX Alter
6.Saber Lancer
7.Saber Lancer Alter
 
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Artix

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A definite consistent discussion on this thread is about what Saber's moveset would be like.
I would like to give my taste on what it would be by 1st posting this question "Do we only have to use the ORIGINAL Saber? Why can't we incorporate different versions of her into her moveset as well like Saber Lancer."

I see 2 ways of doing this idea.
1. Have her use the lance(I can't remember its name becuase ancient mythical weapons have weird names)for certain specials and maybe a few normals.
2.(more interesting one personally) Have her switch from the Excalibur moveset to the lance moveset via down B.

I think using more then just the original VN could help not only getting her a unique moveset but also have Saber be able to represent the Fate Series as a whole. Not just its origins. Doing this would also get alternate costumes of Saber Lancer and Saber Lancer Alter respectably among other costumes.

I know Saber Lancer is usually on a horse with a name but that isn't a requirement as we've seen Saber use a lance without being on a horse. Even if it was a requirement for some reason there have been fighting game characters who're on horses for their moveset.

P.S. if I were to choose 7 alts for Saber they would be....
1.Saber Alter
2.Saber Lily
3.Casual Clothes from FSN
4.MHX
5.MHX Alter
6.Saber Lancer
7.Saber Lancer Alter
You know, that's actually a good idea. Having Saber both Excalibur and Rhongomyniad into her moveset would be definitely be awesome. It will definitely make her unique among swordfighters in Smash.

I think she will use Rhongomyniad in certain normals and maybe some Smash attacks. There's no way they're going to make an entirely different moveset based around the lance that can be switched anytime using Down B as I don't think we have a character with an interchangeable moveset (Kirby and Joker are kinda close to that concept, but only one move changed entirely and in Joker's case, the rest are just revamped version of his normal moveset, except for Down B, I think. I mean the function is different, but it uses the same animation as Rebel's Guard).
 

Itsasomeone

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You know, that's actually a good idea. Having Saber both Excalibur and Rhongomyniad into her moveset would be definitely be awesome. It will definitely make her unique among swordfighters in Smash.

I think she will use Rhongomyniad in certain normals and maybe some Smash attacks. There's no way they're going to make an entirely different moveset based around the lance that can be switched anytime using Down B as I don't think we have a character with an interchangeable moveset (Kirby and Joker are kinda close to that concept, but only one move changed entirely and in Joker's case, the rest are just revamped version of his normal moveset, except for Down B, I think. I mean the function is different, but it uses the same animation as Rebel's Guard).
If they ever put Dante in here(which is very likely) they'll likely have a weapon switching mechanic with him since that's one of the best things he's known for. Doing it with Saber with Excalibur and Rhongo-something would help them test the waters for when they add Dante eventually. Anything is possible once Sakurai and his team think of the idea themselves and it stands in reasonable way and isn't to overpowered.
 

Shishœ

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Saber being able to use Rhongomyniad makes no sense, she's Saber not Lancer. I know Smash takes creative liberites but I think this kinda goes against the idea of Saber being, well, a Saber.
Rhongomyniad is also not that iconic, not even in proper Arthurian mythos, so to a lot of people, including Fate fans who didn't play FGO, it'd just be "why the hell is she using a spear"
 

Sysmek

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Saber being able to use Rhongomyniad makes no sense, she's Saber not Lancer. I know Smash takes creative liberites but I think this kinda goes against the idea of Saber being, well, a Saber.
Rhongomyniad is also not that iconic, not even in proper Arthurian mythos, so to a lot of people, including Fate fans who didn't play FGO, it'd just be "why the hell is she using a spear"
Well, to be fair she did use it while she was alive to kill Mordred.

Also, it wouldnt be the first time people used weapons that dont match their class. I mean, a good chunk of Archers dont even use bows. Hell, the first one we ever see's ultimate attack is "Unlimited Blade Works" lol.

I get what you mean though, she shouldnt have it. But I wouldnt mind her having it in Smash as it could reference that scene in the Battle of Camlaan where she uses it to finish off Mordred
 
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Smasherfan88

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Well, to be fair she did use it while she was alive to kill Mordred.

Also, it wouldnt be the first time people used weapons that dont match their class. I mean, a good chunk of Archers dont even use bows. Hell, the first one we ever see's ultimate attack is "Unlimited Blade Works" lol.

I get what you mean though, she shouldnt have it. But I wouldnt mind her having it in Smash as it could reference that scene in the Battle of Camlaan where she uses it to finish off Mordred
You see, that was Artoria in /life/, this is when she's summoned as a servant under the Saber class. When summoned under the class Artoria cannot use Rhongomyniad. The Saber class only allows for swords to be used and we've yet to see anyone break this rule. That said let me clear an misconception on the Archer class, despite its name, its actually meant for projectile users in general, not just bow and arrow users, thus we have archers that lack a bow. Lancers use spears and lances, Riders ride various mounts, Casters use magic and sometimes even some technological stuff if they're someone that brought such a thing, and Assassins are Assassins, they aren't really limited, same goes for Berserkers, etc. etc. Giving Saber Artoria her Lance would 100% defeat the purpose of her being Saber. That said the reason why Saber is Saber is due to Excalibur being her main weapon, and Lancer Artoria we know is an version of her from a different timeline where she used Rhongomyniad as her main weapon, I also believe she's was the King of The Hunt or whatever that legend is called as well. It also is why F/SN Artoria says she cannot be summoned in any class other than Saber, because her main weapon is Excalibur and the rest didn't become really attached to her in Nasuverse. It's why every alt of her we have in FGO is actually a version of her from an alternate dimension and thus, not the same person. Only one that still is is Saber Lily, who is still in the Saber class. Archer? Scathach rune shenanigans, even then the summer alts aren't considered canon and wouldn't be able to be summoned. Lancer? As I described, is a "what if" and a alternate universe version of her where she used her lancer as her main weapon instead of her sword, also two different people. Assassin? MHX is a star wars parody, separate person, and from a different universe. Berserker? Also a star wars parody, from a different universe, and is a separate person even from MHX. Foreigner? Another parody servant, different universe... separate person (don't know if she's the same or an alternate universe version of MHX ala Artoria Lancer). That said, all of these besides the Saber variants are only summon-able through Chaldea's FATE system.

The only versions of Saber Artoria that could actually be summoned unless you preside in those alternate universes are: Saber Artoria, Saber Artoria Alter, and Saber Artoria Lily. All of which use Excalibur or Calibur, a sword. So it makes no sense at all for Artoria to use anything else but Excalibur. Even then, like Excalibur's sheath, in the "main" F/SN timeline, the Lance is under the possession of Gray and thus can't be used by Artoria even if she wanted to. Also yes, I'm not counting the other Saber faces as Artoria as they're not Artoria, they just have the same face. This stuff also applies to Arthur, he'd also only be able to be summoned into the Saber class (some speculate him to even actually be Grand Saber).


P.S. if I were to choose 7 alts for Saber they would be....
1.Saber Alter
2.Saber Lily
3.Casual Clothes from FSN
4.MHX
5.MHX Alter
6.Saber Lancer
7.Saber Lancer Alter
That said: Lancer Artoria, her alter, and her swimsuit alt couldn't be an alt due to the fact they have quite the /big/ difference in their body-shape, the hitboxes on her wouldn't match up with normal Artoria and that is a problem when it comes to alts. I'm unsure if MHX and MHXA's extra clothing would inflict upon hitboxes, but in Extella Link Artoria has an alt that allows her to cosplay as MHX (sadly JP exclusive I believe due to the fact it was one of the pre-order bonuses from various stores in japan) so it might be passable.
 

Shishœ

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Technically speaking, Artoria Lancer would be perfectly summonable in the Fuyuki Grail War, she still qualifies as a Lancer under normal circumstances, it's just that the Lancer we can summon in FGO is explicitely stated to be one from a diferent timeline that used Rhongomyniad as her main weapon(not the Lion King from the Camelot singularity, who is an Artoria whose Bedivere never returned the sword to the lake, Fate is complicated)
Iirc, under normal circumstances she qualifies for Rider as well and "possibly Caster" though she can't be summoned as one due to "magecraft not being the way of the king" and not having the patience to learn it.
 

Itsasomeone

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I know Saber is classified as a.........Saber and can only use swords based on the lore but....does it REALLY matter for here? I think Saber shouldn't just represent the original Visual Novels but the Fate Series as whole much like every other DLC character so far(even Terry doesn't just represent Fatal Fury but also KOF via his stage and probably also some music and spirits.) and I think the best way to do that would be to incorporate the version of her from the 2nd most well known Fate media and also one of the best mobile games ever. (if that happened then she would would technically represent 2 genres. Better her then wasting a slot on some cringeworthy mobile game rep) Arturia is still Arturia no matter which one you're talking about, they just use different weapons. They've done more or less the same stuff. Smash isn't afraid to do that sorta stuff. Simon uses moves that belong to Richter. The Koopalings are all alts for Bowser Jr. even though they all have unique boss fights from him. Kaptain K. Rool and Dr. K. Rool are actually different poeple and yet King K. Rool can use thier moves. Are Mario Wario and WarioWare Wario even the same person?
What trying to say is that it's not impossible to have a character be based upon more then one of thier appearances that may or may not be different. They could totally use Saber Lancer as part of the moveset and a costume because they're technically still the same character and wouldn't be considered weird becuase they've done stuff like this before with other characters.

Also, I dont think size is a major problem in Smash. Some characters are bigger and smaller then what they actually are for game purposes. In fact, that was one of the biggest discussions regarding Ridley and look how that turned out. If they want to her in then they will regardless of hight difference or do a middle ground where they make her taller then the original but shorter then the Lancer.
 
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Smasherfan88

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I know Saber is classified as a.........Saber and can only use swords based on the lore but....does it REALLY matter for here? I think Saber shouldn't just represent the original Visual Novels but the Fate Series as whole much like every other DLC character so far(even Terry doesn't just represent Fatal Fury but also KOF via his stage and probably also some music and spirits.) and I think the best way to do that would be to incorporate the version of her from the 2nd most well known Fate media and also one of the best mobile games ever. (if that happened then she would would technically represent 2 genres. Better her then wasting a slot on some cringeworthy mobile game rep) Arturia is still Arturia no matter which one you're talking about, they just use different weapons. They've done more or less the same stuff. Smash isn't afraid to do that sorta stuff. Simon uses moves that belong to Richter. The Koopalings are all alts for Bowser Jr. even though they all have unique boss fights from him. Kaptain K. Rool and Dr. K. Rool are actually different poeple and yet King K. Rool can use thier moves. Are Mario Wario and WarioWare Wario even the same person?
What trying to say is that it's not impossible to have a character be based upon more then one of thier appearances that may or may not be different. They could totally use Saber Lancer as part of the moveset and a costume because they're technically still the same character and wouldn't be considered weird becuase they've done stuff like this before with other characters.

Also, I dont think size is a major problem in Smash. Some characters are bigger and smaller then what they actually are for game purposes. In fact, that was one of the biggest discussions regarding Ridley and look how that turned out. If they want to her in then they will regardless of hight difference or do a middle ground where they make her taller then the original but shorter then the Lancer.

First off, I want to start off with your saying they can just make her an alt. Which makes me think you've /never/ seen Lancer Artoria before. Since if you have you'd know why she couldn't be an alt for Saber Artoria in a Smash setting. It has a whole lot more to do than Saber being 154cm tall and Lancer being 171cm tall.

Here's them side by side.

Saber:



Lancer:



(then also ascension 1, ascension 2 is just this without the helmet).



apologies to Smashboards staff if the picture of Lancer Artoria's third/fourth ascension is considered too risque for the site, only good piece of official artwork I could find showing off the differences.

Clearly from these, you can see they have /heavily/ different styles of armors and outfit, and some rather large... "assets". even if one it's covered up more in armor. All alts in Smash bros. have basically done the same things Echo Fighters do, fitting the silhouette of the character, some like Mario do have drastic costume changes but they still fit the silhouette and their hitboxes. Lancer Artoria would not able to do that for Saber Artoria, and thus would be ineligible for being an alternate costume. If you suggest more changes than just her height however, I'm just gonna have to tell you no there buddy as you'd basically doing a whole re-design. While we did get that with Pit in brawl, the difference is he was a first-party character from the NES, while Lancer Artoria is a kinda recent addition to FGO and is owned by a third party, that won't' fly.

Also, you're wrong on that DK lore there buddy, it's been known and confirmed the Smash Trophy descriptions saying they were different were wrong and based off of a non-canon T.V. show. Kaptain K Rool and Dr. K Rool are indeed still King K Rool just using different personas.

That said, back to Saber Artoria using the Lance. All those things with DLC you've been stating are still /canonical/ and true to the lore of those characters. All of Joker's stuff is true to his character and abilities in Persona 5 and its upcoming remix and spin-off. Hero and his alts are all true to their game and fit the hitboxes set by the Luminary and all use abilities they can and are true to them. Banjo and Kazooie have the same thing going on, and so does Terry. Also, ain't really that hard to imagine why that's the case when you realize the first game Terry appeared in was literally titled "Fatal Fury: King of Fighters". Also ain't really hard to imagine Simon being able to do the same things Ritcher can and contradict lore, and besides the final smash and one I believe, I think a remake of Castlevania 1 gave Simon some of Ritcher's abilities beforehand as well.

So... since this is /SABER/ Artoria we're talking about here and sticking true to the lore here, /SABER/ no matter WHAT can't wield her Lance when summoned as a /SABER/ class servant. Which she is and what would be used in Smash Bros. If you want her to use her Lance, advocate for Lancer Artoria or Gray since she's a Saber-face and her whole backstory has to do with the fact her village was trying to turn her into a second coming of King Arthur before Waver saved her and her Scythe is literally the lance in disguise via a mystic code. Otherwise: the Heroic Spirit version of her /might/ have it, and yes they're actually two different things, the heroic spirit is always stronger than the servant version in fact. But they can't be summoned at all besides from the world itself I believe, thus, it'd be lore breaking to slap a master on her of some sorts while also probably being differently designed as well.

That said... I wouldn't call FGO cringe-worthy and I see no reason why they couldn't add Mashu in if they ever desired to. Especially due to the fact we're soon going to be getting the Lost-belts in NA and the events that came with those that aren't holiday based (which you should know, the holiday and summer events aren't even considered hard-canon) which are essentially almost on consistant quality with Camelot and Babylonia, some of the best written singularities and works for Fate, heck its why fans in Japan voted for those to get adapted into an anime and movie. Fun Fact; Mashu's whole character design was a scrapped concept from Stay Night due to time restraints.

That said, if you /really/ want more Fate/ representation just wait for Artoria to get in normally and who knows, maybe she'll be bundled with Mordred as an Echo Fighter or in a future game, or if you're not a fan of her or the Extra servants besides Nero, Nero could be an Echo Fighter, or in a future game we get another Fate/ rep like as I've said, Hakuno (F & M) with Nero, Tamamo, and Nameless or another protagonist from their other works like Arcueid or Shiki, etc. etc.

Technically speaking, Artoria Lancer would be perfectly summonable in the Fuyuki Grail War, she still qualifies as a Lancer under normal circumstances, it's just that the Lancer we can summon in FGO is explicitely stated to be one from a diferent timeline that used Rhongomyniad as her main weapon(not the Lion King from the Camelot singularity, who is an Artoria whose Bedivere never returned the sword to the lake, Fate is complicated)
Iirc, under normal circumstances she qualifies for Rider as well and "possibly Caster" though she can't be summoned as one due to "magecraft not being the way of the king" and not having the patience to learn it.
Its actually impossible to summon Artoria under anything but Saber in the Fuyuki Holy Grail Wars actually for reasons I've stated, the woman herself even admits so canonically. While Excalibur overshadowing everything else in the Nasuverse plays a part, specifically the main Artoria we know of, theoretically if lancer could be summoned, she still couldn't be summoned in that form due to the fact in that main timeline the weapon still exists and is use by Gray before, during, and after the Fuyuki Holy Grail War somewhat similar case to why she wasn't summoned with her scabbard. I cannot say anything for reasons against a actual Rider Artoria that isn't Summer Artoria Alter besides it has to do with the fact her accomplishments on horse-back just weren't enough alongside the numerous NPs Riders have besides just the ones you see in FGO. While that may be another explanation to it, the one I had heard was because she had no potential in mage-craft since she can't actually use her mana in that sort of way thanks to how her unique circuits are, but Caster and Rider are a bit iffy due to the lack of proper information.

Otherwise... our canonical (probably if she was ever summoned) Caster Saber-face is her "dear" sister-slamming sister Morgan le Fay who basically has good magical circuits that work and function properly.
 
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Artix

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That said, if you /really/ want more Fate/ representation just wait for Artoria to get in normally and who knows, maybe she'll be bundled with Mordred as an Echo Fighter or in a future game, or if you're not a fan of her or the Extra servants besides Nero, Nero could be an Echo Fighter, or in a future game we get another Fate/ rep like as I've said, Hakuno (F & M) with Nero, Tamamo, and Nameless or another protagonist from their other works like Arcueid or Shiki, etc. etc.
Mordred doesn't play like Artoria at all. Nero, on the other hand, seems more fitting as her Echo Fighter, though they'll have to change some of Artoria's wind attacks to fire ones.

That said, I wouldn't mind them going after other Type-Moon franchise if Saber got in Smash. Shiki and Arcueid might be cool additions to Smash, plus this could be an opportunity for them to announce the Tsukihime remake.
 

Smasherfan88

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Mordred doesn't play like Artoria at all. Nero, on the other hand, seems more fitting as her Echo Fighter, though they'll have to change some of Artoria's wind attacks to fire ones.

That said, I wouldn't mind them going after other Type-Moon franchise if Saber got in Smash. Shiki and Arcueid might be cool additions to Smash, plus this could be an opportunity for them to announce the Tsukihime remake.
I only said Mordred since she can fit the silhouette somewhat, that said Mordred has never been playable in anything outside of normal FGO. As long as it makes some sense, they're from the same series, and fit the silhouette and hitboxes they can be an Echo Fighter. That said I have a Mordred in FGO and friends with Artoria and Arthur as supports and well... only difference between them is Artoria has attack up, Mordred has defense up, and I think Arthur has some special attack against divine up or something. Both could work, though uh... for Mordred the wind would probably have to be replaced with red lightning. Though that said... I think Mordred would be pushing it and Nero would fit better, even if personally I'd rather a semi-echo Nero tied with Tamamo and Nameless to come alongside Hakuno if they ever got added afterwards.

That said I guess you didn't hear? They're already play testing it and are planning to remake the EXTRA series of games (So... Extra and CCC... I hope for an English translation of CCC finally happening officially).

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201910/05182695.html

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201910/05182695.html?page=2

Confirmed in a interview in Famitsu by Nasu himself.
 
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Artix

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I only said Mordred since she can fit the silhouette somewhat, that said Mordred has never been playable in anything outside of normal FGO. As long as it makes some sense, they're from the same series, and fit the silhouette and hitboxes they can be an Echo Fighter. That said I have a Mordred in FGO and friends with Artoria and Arthur as supports and well... only difference between them is Artoria has attack up, Mordred has defense up, and I think Arthur has some special attack against divine up or something. Both could work, though uh... for Mordred the wind would probably have to be replaced with red lightning. Though that said... I think Mordred would be pushing it and Nero would fit better, even if personally I'd rather a semi-echo Nero tied with Tamamo and Nameless to come alongside Hakuno if they ever got added afterwards.

That said I guess you didn't hear? They're already play testing it and are planning to remake the EXTRA series of games (So... Extra and CCC... I hope for an English translation of CCC finally happening officially).

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201910/05182695.html

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201910/05182695.html?page=2

Confirmed in a interview in Famitsu by Nasu himself.
Oh, I actually do know about the play testing and the EXTRA remake. All I'm saying is that it could be perfect for them to announce the release date of the Tsukihime remake or probably a Switch port if they ever plan on releasing it on a Nintendo console if they put either Arcueid or Shiki in Smash.
 

Shishœ

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Mordred fights way too differently from Saber to ever work even as a semi-clone. The only thing they have in common with Artoria is their face.
Nero could work in her fighting style but her sword has a very different deisgn
 

Smasherfan88

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Mordred fights way too differently from Saber to ever work even as a semi-clone. The only thing they have in common with Artoria is their face.
Nero could work in her fighting style but her sword has a very different deisgn
Fair enough. I'll agree to disagree on the subject if Mordred can be an echo fighter or not.

In general though as long as the sword can fit Excalibur's hurt boxes it could work, an example is that Chrom's Falchion and Roy's Binding Blade which have some noticeable design differences from one another but Chrom's Falchion still fits the hurt boxes of the Binding Blade.
 

Sysmek

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Oh, I actually do know about the play testing and the EXTRA remake. All I'm saying is that it could be perfect for them to announce the release date of the Tsukihime remake or probably a Switch port if they ever plan on releasing it on a Nintendo console if they put either Arcueid or Shiki in Smash.
I honestly dont know why Arc Sys and French Bread havent ported Melty AACC to the Switch. Its such a dumb business move not to

But yeah, if Tsukihime R gets announced for the Switch (which I dont see why it wouldnt), I would 100% love to see Arcueid in Smash. Tohno is cool and all but Arc would be a lot more interesting.

Her chains would be really fun to mess with, and her marble phantasm can give her loads of possibilites for a cool moveset

Also, I wouldnt mind dropping the Moon as a Final Smash (or turning into Archetype Earth, taking you to outer space (similar to her Melty Another Last Arc), and blasting you to oblivion. Actually yeah thatd probably be 100x cooler than dropping the moon, lol)
 

Artix

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Whew! Terry's presentation was pretty wild!

Anyways, during the livestream, Sakurai said that whether a character is fun to play is more important than whether a character is old or new, or whether a character is recognizable or not. I guess this is a message to those people who would say "literally who" to a character and that really makes me happy since Saber has a tiny bit of a shot now.

Mai not being included as a cameo in a stage is really funny. They were able to have Bayonetta in the game, but with Mai they were like "Nope! This is a kids game and we can't risk having a sexy character in here". Really hope this doesn't affect Saber's chance in the game even though she doesn't wear any revealing outfit compared to Mai and Bayonetta, but the fact that she comes from an eroge game still holds water.
 
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PapillonXtreme

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Mai not being included as a cameo in a stage is really funny. They were able to have Bayonetta in the game, but with Mai they were like "Nope! This is a kids game and we can't risk having a sexy character in here". Really hope this doesn't affect Saber's chance in the game even though she doesn't wear any revealing outfit compared to Mai and Bayonetta, but the fact that she comes from an eroge game still holds water.
I feel like they're gonna use this as an argument against Saber, even though she's tame in terms of appearance compare to Mai. But I still think this wouldn't affect her chances if anything.
 

Starch

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Whew! Terry's presentation was pretty wild!

Anyways, during the livestream, Sakurai said that whether a character is fun to play is more important than whether a character is old or new, or whether a character is recognizable or not. I guess this is a message to those people who would say "literally who" to a character and that really makes me happy since Saber has a tiny bit of a shot now.

Mai not being included as a cameo in a stage is really funny. They were able to have Bayonetta in the game, but with Mai they were like "Nope! This is a kids game and we can't risk having a sexy character in here". Really hope this doesn't affect Saber's chance in the game even though she doesn't wear any revealing outfit compared to Mai and Bayonetta, but the fact that she comes from an eroge game still holds water.
Turns out, Sakurai mentioned CERO in the recent presentation so the Smash team would have to deal with CERO's strict policies on sexuality if they're to put Mai in. In terms of design, Saber would be pretty tame compared to Mai in terms of sexual appearances so I don't think it does anything to her anyways.
 

Smasherfan88

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Turns out, Sakurai mentioned CERO in the recent presentation so the Smash team would have to deal with CERO's strict policies on sexuality if they're to put Mai in. In terms of design, Saber would be pretty tame compared to Mai in terms of sexual appearances so I don't think it does anything to her anyways.
Yeah, its more so the fact CERO is more concerned about if you can get potential upskirts of a character than say... giving someone a gun. (Sakurai himself has criticized CERO for not getting their priorities straight as he believes panties shouldn't be more of a concern than just a gun as they're just a fabric of clothing. Which I gotta say I agree with him, same also kinda applies to bust size to me, they're breasts, every natural-born girl has them, even those with large chests).

But yeah no, I don't think that'd be any issue for Saber, especially taking into account of what we've said before. The Fate/ series has essentially pulled a Love Hotel era Nintendo and has firmly stuck its placed in the Rated T-M ratings and not really touching A.

Also fun fact: FGO JP is 4 and up, so... I guess for mobile games in japan they're less strict?
 

Artix

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Yeah, its more so the fact CERO is more concerned about if you can get potential upskirts of a character than say... giving someone a gun. (Sakurai himself has criticized CERO for not getting their priorities straight as he believes panties shouldn't be more of a concern than just a gun as they're just a fabric of clothing. Which I gotta say I agree with him, same also kinda applies to bust size to me, they're breasts, every natural-born girl has them, even those with large chests).
Man, CERO are really THAT strict, huh? They are more concerned about a character who's just showing skin for distraction than a character who uses a gun?

Anyway, they literally had no choice in that matter about Mai. They could have altered Mai's appearance so that it would appeal to the audience more, but that would mean she loses the one aspect that makes Mai so iconic and that would definitely cause a backlash from a lot of people if that were to happen. So they decided to not have her appear as a cameo in the KoF Stadium stage, probably to prevent another "Mr. Game and Watch Controversy".
 
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I am not sure on Saber as her games did start out as erotic, but now this is no longer something commonly present in the series. Plus they have games on the Switch.

Some are taking this (the Fate series) and that CERO wants fully covered sexy women, as an excuse to have that Asagi character and Rance.

Oddly just as Fate, I have been reading that they want to tone down the erotic aspect of the Asagi series to reach wider audiences as something mainstream... wonder if they actually plan to aim for something like Smash...!?
 

Inoj

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ohhhhhh boy

if I heard my glorious days in a direct I would be so confused lmfao

not even mad or glad... just confused haha
I would likely spit my drink. And If I didn't have one I'd get one just so I could spit it.

The "Holy ****" reaction would be off the charts.
 
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