The Ivysaur Match Up?

[Denjinpachi]

What is the real approach to the Ivy MU? I've been trying to figure it out, but everytime I either try to approach, pressure, or even zone Ivy, I feel like I get no where but knocked off stage. I understand basic fox things like up throw follow ups, like up air and bair. I don't know what to do in the neutral vs. Ivy.

 

[hi im dennis]

If he camps, camp back. Ivysaur is a floaty, slow character, so when he makes a mistake, use your speed to charge him with a SFFL nair or dair. Some follow ups to nair or dair is waveshine > up smash, or waveshine > grab > up throw > uair/bair strings. He can combo fast fallers really hard, so don't get grabbed, and try to dodge his projectile. When he uses it charge him because he will be in decently long lag.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Fox can't waveshine Ivy sadly so that won't work. The place were Fox really shines in this matchup is his defensive game. Ivy has amazing defensive game, but lacks in approaching (certain characters like Fox) so it is super hard for Ivy to get in on Fox: so basically laser camp. Not super flashy I know but it is how it works. On another note, what are you using for pressure, and how is the Ivy responding? Dair Shine over and over is not punishable by Ivy's grab if done correctly. Ivy does have some Oos options but they are all sub par like Bair/Fair being slow and Nair not having great range.

If you are having trouble with Razor leaf here are some solutions. All of you aerials(except Upair/Fair) are great for beating it out completly and retain hit boxes so that is really useful especially Dair and Nair for approaching, just be weary of shields with Nair. Dash attack is really interesting because it clanks with it meaning you can act almost instantly after hitting it.

 

[Mason95]

Once IV thethers onto the ledge while I'm holding it, what are my best options? I usually wait for IV to come off the ledge and punish with bair, but he always seems to fade back to ledge when I go for this.

Any insight as to what's the optimal punish?

 

[PartlyCloudy]

Once IV thethers onto the ledge while I'm holding it, what are my best options? I usually wait for IV to come off the ledge and punish with bair, but he always seems to fade back to ledge when I go for this.

Any insight as to what's the optimal punish?

Since Fox is so fast (and if you're under 100%), you can probably do regular get up on reaction to turn around and UpSmash. Bair is pretty good, and Uair is good as a read. Mainly, you want Ivy to pick a bad option (which is pretty much anything if you're holding the ledge), and then punish it in some way with Fox's fast speed. Remember she get's two tethers before it fails, so if Ivy is fading back consistently, just wait on the ledge. Even if she get's up first, you're still Fox, and can get up quickly to punish.

On a side note about approaching, be careful about Crouch Canceling, as Ivy has a lot of good options for CCing. Dtilt can pop you up for a combo, and jab can knock you down into grab, tech chase, or other things that Fox definitely doesn't want. To deal with that, I recommend using Dair for your approach if you notice they CC a lot (like my friend does, who is really good at that). Make sure to mix it up though, as doing the same thing will inevitably have a counter to it. Just remember "Don't get hit," since Ivy can punish you super hard, and being off stage is terrible for you.

Bait and punish. Bait and punish. Bait and punish.

 

[DMG]

I used to do this with Denti some back in one of the older patches. Prolly 3.02

Optimal tether hop punish flowchart IMO is something like this:

Wait for their Hop
Drop from edge, jump towards onstage
Threaten Bair if they try to drift back offstage or ledge cancel
If they keep moving onstage, don't use Bair and get free Usmash/grab

There's a timing / distance you get used to where drifting back/edge cancelling the tether hop is no longer possible. You get used to noticing that after extensive practice edgeguarding it.

It's pretty hard for them to trick you if you follow that. The main mistake that could happen, assuming you do not let go too early before the hop, is hitting with the wrong side of Bair, especially weak reverse hit of Bair. Probably means you commit too early to Bair: does not have to be a super early decision and it's mainly option coverage.

I don't remember neutral, but basically you win a lot of stuff onstage and then get wrecked offstage. Almost everything is a bad idea, and you can easily get forced into positions where literally you have to pray they mess up to get back. Ivy has the tools to just about cover all options by Fox.

Get on top of Ivy and it's relatively free. I'd only camp Ivy if you have a stage and the room for it to be suitable. May not be an option on their CP or on the starter.