The Future of Robin

[Raziek]

It's not necessarily that people should Arcfire LESS (though they probably should), and moreso that they should Arcfire SMARTER.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

That's probably an important distinction to make, but I find in the immediate term that 'Less Arcfire' ends up kind of working out as 'smarter Arcfire' by default...

 

[Dathx]

Yeah I saw one of your sets on stream at CEO, grats on doing well with Robin.

Just to make sure I got your post right, are you saying that Robin has a 60-40 advantage over Luigi? A good Luigi has more tools against us I'd think. Thunder definitely gives us more options, but Luigi is pretty comfortable both further than Rabin's traditional neutral zone, and also closer with those dreaded grabs. In general I feel Robin has slight disadvantages against most the high tier cast, but it's close to even so I don't mind it much.

I haven't actually watched Raziek's posted videos yet, but vs Rob I usually try to hold on to his gyro if he throws it, and just... keep it. It's a major tool in his arsenal, and we still have zoning options between arcfire / thunder / z-dropped nairs (to keep the gyro). I'm a lot more comfortable camping him / making Rob approach when all he has is a laser for long range.

I'm pretty adamant about my opinion on the Luigi MU, it's definitely an advantage for Robin. Whether that means 60-40 or 55-45 though, is up for discussion. Luigi has one approach option: run up and grab. Yes, he can use fireballs to cover himself and make that option safe, but it's very predictable and you can react in many different ways. If you're pretty far away, you can arcfire the fireball so it explodes closer to you, and slightly higher (Although the preferred action is waiting for a fireball and punishing with Thoron). Having Thoron charged is VITAL in the MU, and to be honest, it's probably the MU where you play the most campy and reactive (aka like a jerk). Everytime he is knocked off stage you can either charge thoron or edge-guard, depending on what he has to do to get back. When you get a book pretend it's a better Thoron and punish fireballs. Although with book you can definitely go on the aggressive as long as you re-catch off sheild. Carelessness (which is why Robin's death quote should exclusively be "I was careless") in the MU leads to getting demolished (see game 2), but if you play smart and patient I feel like it's pretty simple.

Yes, I am the Dath from FL that played at CEO. I played poorly on my stream match due to stage jitters (multiple panicky high recoveries), it's VERY different for me than just a regular tournament (our local weeklies go 80+) with 100+ unknown people cheering etc. I actually played much better off stream and beat DKWill's Sheik as well as Captain Zach (the peach player I fought on stream) in money matches. I would be down for some friendlies at some point, I'm EST and usually available any night except Thursday or Friday.

As for customs, I am not too experienced with them. I usually opt for 1311 in almost every MU (although Luigi is one where I stay default lol). I'll go 2311 in doubles sometimes, and after watching Raziek's videos I'm interested in trying out speed thunder, but I'm worried about the big drop in damage/kill power.

 

[Raziek]

I'm pretty adamant about my opinion on the Luigi MU, it's definitely an advantage for Robin. Whether that means 60-40 or 55-45 though, is up for discussion. Luigi has one approach option: run up and grab. Yes, he can use fireballs to cover himself and make that option safe, but it's very predictable and you can react in many different ways. If you're pretty far away, you can arcfire the fireball so it explodes closer to you, and slightly higher (Although the preferred action is waiting for a fireball and punishing with Thoron). Having Thoron charged is VITAL in the MU, and to be honest, it's probably the MU where you play the most campy and reactive (aka like a jerk). Everytime he is knocked off stage you can either charge thoron or edge-guard, depending on what he has to do to get back. When you get a book pretend it's a better Thoron and punish fireballs. Although with book you can definitely go on the aggressive as long as you re-catch off sheild. Carelessness (which is why Robin's death quote should exclusively be "I was careless") in the MU leads to getting demolished (see game 2), but if you play smart and patient I feel like it's pretty simple.

Yes, I am the Dath from FL that played at CEO. I played poorly on my stream match due to stage jitters (multiple panicky high recoveries), it's VERY different for me than just a regular tournament (our local weeklies go 80+) with 100+ unknown people cheering etc. I actually played much better off stream and beat DKWill's Sheik as well as Captain Zach (the peach player I fought on stream) in money matches. I would be down for some friendlies at some point, I'm EST and usually available any night except Thursday or Friday.

As for customs, I am not too experienced with them. I usually opt for 1311 in almost every MU (although Luigi is one where I stay default lol). I'll go 2311 in doubles sometimes, and after watching Raziek's videos I'm interested in trying out speed thunder, but I'm worried about the big drop in damage/kill power.

Can I get a quick/reliable way to contact you? Skype, Twitter, Facebook, preferably in that order of ease.

 

[Dathx]

Skype: Deathx7777 (heh <___<) I'm not on often, but if you message me it will go to my phone.

Twitter: @Dath_ly

Feel free to follow, my Twitter is pretty new, but I like to post the stream for any locals I'm at (usually includes players like ESAM, Nick Riddle, and MVD), my placing/thoughts, and short videos of any cute Robin stuff I do in friendlies/tourney/etc.

 

[Wintropy]

It's not necessarily that people should Arcfire LESS (though they probably should), and moreso that they should Arcfire SMARTER.

This is exactly how I feel about rolling.

Carry on.

 

[Meneil]

I'm pretty adamant about my opinion on the Luigi MU, it's definitely an advantage for Robin. Whether that means 60-40 or 55-45 though, is up for discussion. Luigi has one approach option: run up and grab. Yes, he can use fireballs to cover himself and make that option safe, but it's very predictable and you can react in many different ways. If you're pretty far away, you can arcfire the fireball so it explodes closer to you, and slightly higher (Although the preferred action is waiting for a fireball and punishing with Thoron). Having Thoron charged is VITAL in the MU, and to be honest, it's probably the MU where you play the most campy and reactive (aka like a jerk). Everytime he is knocked off stage you can either charge thoron or edge-guard, depending on what he has to do to get back. When you get a book pretend it's a better Thoron and punish fireballs. Although with book you can definitely go on the aggressive as long as you re-catch off sheild. Carelessness (which is why Robin's death quote should exclusively be "I was careless") in the MU leads to getting demolished (see game 2), but if you play smart and patient I feel like it's pretty simple.

Yes, I am the Dath from FL that played at CEO. I played poorly on my stream match due to stage jitters (multiple panicky high recoveries), it's VERY different for me than just a regular tournament (our local weeklies go 80+) with 100+ unknown people cheering etc. I actually played much better off stream and beat DKWill's Sheik as well as Captain Zach (the peach player I fought on stream) in money matches. I would be down for some friendlies at some point, I'm EST and usually available any night except Thursday or Friday.

As for customs, I am not too experienced with them. I usually opt for 1311 in almost every MU (although Luigi is one where I stay default lol). I'll go 2311 in doubles sometimes, and after watching Raziek's videos I'm interested in trying out speed thunder, but I'm worried about the big drop in damage/kill power.

I just wanted to make sure you didn't mean it in reverse (40-60) before I wrote up a response
I disagree with your overall score vs Luigi, however I'm actually really happy to have any matchup discussion at all, I think having different opinions is a great way to think about different options more - or advancing the metagame, as the future of Robin is this thread is called.

It's interesting because I agree on a lot of your points on how to fight Luigi - Thoron is *really* good, having it available cuts off some of Luigi's 'safer' options. Even not using it, but just having the option to, really makes a large difference in high tier MUs. Playing defensive is also important, since Luigi depends heavily on his grabs. I still think Luigi has safe setups and generally a much larger payoff than Robin though, which is where I fall into a 40-60 for Robin.

I'll probably hit you up on skype for friendlies or just Robin things sometime too, Raziek is just a lot smoother at asking at it than me >____>

 

[Kevandre]

It really sucks because Robin was the most hype character pre-launch, and up until very recently I've called her my main. But I've kind of had to smell the roses here... She's still my favorite character, but no matter how hard I try, I just can't get to be as good as I am with the likes of Ness, Greninja, and now Roy.

I don't really understand why she's the slowest character in the game. If I'm being honest I do feel like it's the main thing holding her back. I dunno, I feel like non-Monado Arts Shulk is a good speed that could fit with Robin. It'd solve a lot of her issues.

 

[Raziek]

It's interesting because I agree on a lot of your points on how to fight Luigi - Thoron is *really* good, having it available cuts off some of Luigi's 'safer' options. Even not using it, but just having the option to, really makes a large difference in high tier MUs. Playing defensive is also important, since Luigi depends heavily on his grabs. I still think Luigi has safe setups and generally a much larger payoff than Robin though, which is where I fall into a 40-60 for Robin.

This is pretty much how I felt in a nutshell.

I agreed with everything you said, but then you came to 6-4 OUR advantage and I was like, "huh?"

The payoff being really disproportionate is what really pushes me towards it being Luigi favor.

 

[WispBae]

@ Dathx

So HERE you are! I was wondering who you were, I wanted to play friendlies with ya, so I was waiting behind ya, but KDB (red yoshi) came and money matched ya before I got the chance.

I also saw the match against you and KDB, and noticed it came down to the last game, surprising considering he's one of our best players in CFL. He was walking around looking for "free money", and you were one of the few to make him work for it. XD

Back to the discussion at hand, however. I want to main Robin, but I'm already a Duck Hunt main (the only one in my area). I feel like I have a duty to the doggy to help advance his meta. But at the same time, the first time I went to the Campus Cards weekly at CFL, I decided to go mostly Robin the whole time and ended up getting 9th. The two doubles tourneys I've won have also been with Robin as well...

It's so hard. =[

 

[Raziek]

@ Dathx

So HERE you are! I was wondering who you were, I wanted to play friendlies with ya, so I was waiting behind ya, but KDB (red yoshi) came and money matched ya before I got the chance.

I also saw the match against you and KDB, and noticed it came down to the last game, surprising considering he's one of our best players in CFL. He was walking around looking for "free money", and you were one of the few to make him work for it. XD

Back to the discussion at hand, however. I want to main Robin, but I'm already a Duck Hunt main (the only one in my area). I feel like I have a duty to the doggy to help advance his meta. But at the same time, the first time I went to the Campus Cards weekly at CFL, I decided to go mostly Robin the whole time and ended up getting 9th. The two doubles tourneys I've won have also been with Robin as well...

It's so hard. =[

Join usssss :3c

 

[WispBae]

Join usssss :3c

Now that CEO is over, I was going to go Robin exclusive for a while, really put time in the lab with her at weeklies and such. If anything, Robin may be the main, but Doggy would probably stay the secondary, since I like him way better for certain MU's (Rosalina, Sonic, Lil Mac, Olimar).

My other issue is... do I go Cotton Candy Robin?! Or Stylin Robin?! Or Red Robin?! I wish there was a green hair, fem Robin =m=

 

[Dathx]

Join usssss :3c

This.

Funny you bring up the money match with KDB, I was up 2-1 on game 4 and had about a 90% lead, when one of our local players apparently saw me from across the room and ran up and shook me. I ended up losing that game and the next and it made me kind of sad.

Anyway, Robin and Duck Hunt are pretty similar I guess. The trade-off is speed for Dog and kill power for Robin. Maybe next big FL event we can play.

 

[WispBae]

This.

Funny you bring up the money match with KDB, I was up 2-1 on game 4 and had about a 90% lead, when one of our local players apparently saw me from across the room and ran up and shook me. I ended up losing that game and the next and it made me kind of sad.

Anyway, Robin and Duck Hunt are pretty similar I guess. The trade-off is speed for Dog and kill power for Robin. Maybe next big FL event we can play.

They are sort of similar... I picked up Robin because she has way better KO power and seems very technical in a projectile sense. Her slow speed is meh, but in doubles, she's amazing. Luckily, my doubles partner mains Luigi and G&W, so he can combo opponents into Uairs and Nosferatus with Luigi, and we pull super bucket shenanigans with G&W. Kind of hard to set up, but you can get a OHKO with a bucket of 3 ArcThunders. Adversely, if he needs a quick bucket just to have a strong projectile or finisher to a combo, Arcfire fills it up immediately once the pillar is out. It's weak, but effective with how much base knockback Bucket has.

 

[Another K-2L Survivor]

They are sort of similar... I picked up Robin because she has way better KO power and seems very technical in a projectile sense. Her slow speed is meh, but in doubles, she's amazing. Luckily, my doubles partner mains Luigi and G&W, so he can combo opponents into Uairs and Nosferatus with Luigi, and we pull super bucket shenanigans with G&W. Kind of hard to set up, but you can get a OHKO with a bucket of 3 ArcThunders. Adversely, if he needs a quick bucket just to have a strong projectile or finisher to a combo, Arcfire fills it up immediately once the pillar is out. It's weak, but effective with how much base knockback Bucket has.

Hm, reminds me of a friend and I. We play a lot of team games locally, and usually keep friendly fire turned on for the challenge (and for the hilarity). I'll play Robin, and he'll play Villager. I'll load his pockets, he'll let me Nosferatu him in a pinch. There is a lot of back and forth, but we know each other so well that it's just natural.

 

[WispBae]

Hm, reminds me of a friend and I. We play a lot of team games locally, and usually keep friendly fire turned on for the challenge (and for the hilarity). I'll play Robin, and he'll play Villager. I'll load his pockets, he'll let me Nosferatu him in a pinch. There is a lot of back and forth, but we know each other so well that it's just natural.

With a lucario friend of mine, He'll have me spam nosferatu on him when we get the chance. I stock tank, he goes aggro with Rage and Aura.

 

[Funkermonster]

Wanted to ask.... how do you guys feel about Robin in Doubles?

Here's the thing.... Pre-launch, I didn't know who Robin was but oh boy did he look badass and I not only wanted to play him as my potential secondary, but he's also the one who got me into Fire Emblem Awakening, a series I've never played before and its now my favorite game on the 3DS (barring Smash 3DS) and one of my favorite RPGs as a whole. When the game did come out, I Played Robin for a bit but kinda forgot him, as I found him too difficult to use and felt that has been far more useful in the early days of my competitive career than he was (although in truth, I was a bad, bad Sonic and was only successful n For Glory for the most part, took me time to realize it tho). He was not the only character I dropped: and most recently are all characters that came and went with me as well (although recently, I've been playing Shulk more often lately and Lucina too, but only with customs). A couple months ago, I grew back interest in this character and I still have it, but now I've changed mains and secondary almost entirely and am already stuck in developing and learning their metas: , and I am pretty much the only Greninja in my area too. I want to play Robin but not only is it far too late in the game to pick him back up, he's got too high a learning curve to be a side character, and he doesn't really compliment either one of these characters anyway.

But.... if I can't play him in singles, maybe I can main him in doubles (or secondary if I continue using Mega Man there too). I know quite a few people that have a main exclusively for doubles, and some characters tend to be far more useful in that metagame for singles (Zelda for example, is a trash character in singles, but I hear she is surprisingly good in doubles). I'd imagine his usual flaws become a bit less of an issue in this metagame when I get a partner to cover me while I act as a support tank. My current partner mains Yoshi and I thought of supporting him from the sidelines while goes into rushdown and he could potentially do some crazy team combos with combinations of my projectiles and his speed an aerials, and he can help cover me if opponents get too close. I'm still getting into the doubles metagame and I don't really have a main yet for that. I'm more used to being a supporter than an aggressor, and right now I'm looking at these characters the most as candidates from greatest to least: . But I wanted your input to see if this was a fine idea.

 

[WispBae]

So my first Robin exclusive weekly... I got 2nd place...

It was a small turn out but still... Challenged the current reigning champ and beat my olimar buddy who beats me on a regular basis...

He told me I do way better with her and said I should just make the switch...

Not sure if good at this character or people don't know the MU...

 

[shane3x]

Robin's does pretty well in doubles, I entered a local tournament recently and came 4th. Although when it came to certain matchup's later in the finals I pretty much had to swap out to Rosalina.

Of course the meta could result in some technique or discovery that could accelerate Robin higher then he is and he has good tools overall, although for now I think he has a limit. I feel like his zoning and walling tools aren't good enough to keep out a good rushdown player to justify his lack of mobility and relatively slow moves. I wouldn't say he needs an overhaul, a few tweaks here and there should be enough to say at least bring him up closer to Villager. It is always nice to see more non-zone breaker and rushdown characters in the higher ups.

 

[ThatRandomGuy42]

I entered a small online tournament exclusively as Robin and came 2nd. I lost to Link because I wasn't used to fighting a proper Link main. That, and it was 5am when I done it and I was exhausted.
Johns aside though, they could be viable. It's too early to tell.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

It really sucks because Robin was the most hype character pre-launch, and up until very recently I've called her my main. But I've kind of had to smell the roses here... She's still my favorite character, but no matter how hard I try, I just can't get to be as good as I am with the likes of Ness, Greninja, and now Roy.

I honestly feel the same way. My Robin might not be as good as Nairo's (though it's interesting to note he has apparently stopped using her competitively? Or so it seems?) or Raziek's... but it has basically peaked for the time being. I'm not getting much better with her despite dumping in tons of time and effort.

Conversely I pick up Peach for a few weeks and wreck people. Or Ryu, who I do even better with. At some point I have to say I think the character has a real barrier to any further progress, and have pretty much demoted Robin to being my secondary while I focus on Ryu and Ness.

Which is to say I don't feel Robin has much of a future at this point. That disappoints me greatly. Sure, some great players can take locals or even 'small area' events with her... but I haven't seen her make much of an impact at majors.

 

[Kevandre]

The move set itself is fine but truly Robin needs to be a lot faster, there's no reason for her to be the slowest character. At all.

 

[Raziek]

The move set itself is fine but truly Robin needs to be a lot faster, there's no reason for her to be the slowest character. At all.

Yes there is.

Realize that Marth was blatantly top tier in Brawl while having similar aerials to what Robin currently has.

Now imagine that with Robin's specials. It would not be fair or balanced.

Robin has a lot of power in her aerials and specials BECAUSE her speed is bad. That's a by-design weakness, and taking that away would give you a stupid broken character.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I'm honestly inclined to agree. What we have now isn't a good character, but raw speed improvements aren't what should be focused on. The furthest I would want movement speed improvements to go is "no longer casually caught by Ganondorf", and that's it.

We shouldn't want to move Robin toward Marth's paradigm. Robin should be a 'Red Mage' in the Final Fantasy sense; decent at both aspects, but definitely more defined by their range/magic than their physical assets. She is the only Fire Emblem rep in Smash who has a ranged attack, the only one who uses magic in a direct sense. I want to see them fix her jab and make her magic better, not move toward things that would emphasize sword-play even more. I want to see Robin stay unique.

 

[Raziek]

Robin IS a good character though.

Mid tier is good. You don't have to be top tier to be playable. I would make like, very minor tweaks to Robin and that's it.

 

[Kevandre]

Yes there is.

Realize that Marth was blatantly top tier in Brawl while having similar aerials to what Robin currently has.

Now imagine that with Robin's specials. It would not be fair or balanced.

Robin has a lot of power in her aerials and specials BECAUSE her speed is bad. That's a by-design weakness, and taking that away would give you a stupid broken character.

I'm not saying Marth speed. I'm talking not the slowest character in the game. I seriously think she's got a lot more potential with just a few bumps up.

 

[SpeedBump]

As an aside, for what it's worth to this discussion (I came across his video a while ago on /r/smashbros), Zero seems to believe Robin needs a buff. If you're interested in just hearing about Robin, skip to 1:00. Just figured I'd share it since I haven't seen the video shared by anyone else on the board.

Anyhow, I don't know that Robin needs anything major. Sure, it'd be nice if he moved at least as fast on the ground as say, Ganondorf, but as I've continued playing him, I think he's in an acceptable spot. Mobility is nice but in many cases I don't know if running faster would have helped save me from being punished for a stupid use of arcfire or thunder spell. Speaking for myself, it's that I need to learn how to better trap people between my use of aerial mobility/Levin disjoints and landings to force bad positioning or an impatient/reckless option from my opponent and use that time to press an advantage (*insert predictable scale-tipping joke here*).

I see him as a mid tier with reasonable strengths and weaknesses and we are just continuing to learn how to play around them. Or maybe I'm just drinking the Kool-aid. Would freebie buffs be appreciated, though? Sure! (yes please, Sakurai - round out that FE series of buffs! )

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Robin IS a good character though.

Mid tier is good. You don't have to be top tier to be playable. I would make like, very minor tweaks to Robin and that's it.

I wasn't asking for top tier. If "ahahaha unlimited power like Emperor Palpatine" appealed to me I would have picked Fox or any other character along those lines. I would have swapped to Diddy back when he was the best in the game.

I'm just asking for some improvements so she doesn't get destroyed for free by the top tiers.

 

[shane3x]

I wasn't asking for top tier. If "ahahaha unlimited power like Emperor Palpatine" appealed to me I would have picked Fox or any other character along those lines. I would have swapped to Diddy back when he was the best in the game.

I'm just asking for some improvements so she doesn't get destroyed for free by the top tiers.

Just some tweaks to help deal with rushdown more would be nice indeed.

 

[C0rvus]

Robin IS a good character though.

Mid tier is good. You don't have to be top tier to be playable. I would make like, very minor tweaks to Robin and that's it.

Not to be that guy, but I dunno if I would consider Robin good enough. Robin has abysmal MUs against the likes of Sheik, Sonic, Fox, etc. I don't think that makes her a good character.

 

[shane3x]

Not to be that guy, but I dunno if I would consider Robin good enough. Robin has abysmal MUs against the likes of Sheik, Sonic, Fox, etc. I don't think that makes her a good character.

That's why he's in Mid as opposed to high because he isn't better than all those people, but still better then plenty others.

 

[Raziek]

I would not consider either Sheik or Fox 'abysmal'. I don't think Fox is worse than -1, and Sheik is somewhere between -1 and -2. They're not easy, but they're also not 'pick a different character' levels of bad, by any means.

I won't speak for Sonic, as I haven't yet played against a decent one.

 

[WispBae]

I would not consider either Sheik or Fox 'abysmal'. I don't think Fox is worse than -1, and Sheik is somewhere between -1 and -2. They're not easy, but they're also not 'pick a different character' levels of bad, by any means.

I won't speak for Sonic, as I haven't yet played against a decent one.

The fact that Robin has no way to escape the Fox jab lock combo really upsets me. Only by DI'ing up, and hoping you can jump out. And if they eat your double jump... Might as well just put your controller down.

 

[C0rvus]

I want to believe it, but I'm having a very hard time. I've played the character, I've watched others play the character. So many matchups seem like a huge uphill battle. I do like the character and their playstyle but it's hard to imagine myself going very far with them. Perhaps being a character specialist is enough for some people. I still don't know what I want from this game.

 

[Dathx]

Following what Raziek said, Robin's MU's against the top tiers are actually...really good for a "mid" tier. Sheik and Fox I believe are between 0 and -1, and I feel like Sonic might be even. This is all vanilla by the way. All of my experience in these MUs are with high level local players.

Also, having a -1 MU is very good. Shaky (one of the best Ness players in brawl/smash4) won -3 MUs in brawl all the time. There is no reason to complain about a -1 MU. If you lose a -1 MU, it is 100% your fault for not knowing how to play the MU or just not playing well enough.

 

[Tricky Al]

I want to believe it, but I'm having a very hard time. I've played the character, I've watched others play the character. So many matchups seem like a huge uphill battle. I do like the character and their playstyle but it's hard to imagine myself going very far with them. Perhaps being a character specialist is enough for some people. I still don't know what I want from this game.

Nothing comes easy to Robin, that's for sure. There's very little room for error with his laggy moves especially against those top tiers. The biggest thing I've learned from playing Robin is patience. You can't rushdown so don't try. You've gotta play the spacing game and wait for your opponent to mess up and punish like all hell. People who play top tier characters are often impatient and want results. If you dance around long enough they'll open up.

Keep playing Robin and you'll continue to improve, trust me. When I first picked the character up I was terrified of Sheiks, Sonics, Foxes, Olimars, Links..well you get the point. But over time I viewed the matchup as a challenge I wanted to overcome and I've improved greatly because of it. Keep up the good fight! There are too few Robin mains!

 

[shane3x]

Following what Raziek said, Robin's MU's against the top tiers are actually...really good for a "mid" tier. Sheik and Fox I believe are between 0 and -1, and I feel like Sonic might be even. This is all vanilla by the way. All of my experience in these MUs are with high level local players.

Also, having a -1 MU is very good. Shaky (one of the best Ness players in brawl/smash4) won -3 MUs in brawl all the time. There is no reason to complain about a -1 MU. If you lose a -1 MU, it is 100% your fault for not knowing how to play the MU or just not playing well enough.

The only time it'd be 100% your fault is if you are better then your opponent skill wise and still lose. If people are of even skill or your opponent is better then anything below a +0 MU isn't going to go well for Robin on average. You don't see Nairo play Robin much these days and others do want to play Robin but as things are right now until a patch changes things or someone discovers something that can put things in Robin's favour the game is still mostly run by the high mobility and combo potential characters with Rosa being an exception. Rosa compensates heavily for her lack of mobility while Robin not quite as much.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I'm not sure I'm willing to accept "vulnerable to this character's infinite" as "oh that match isn't so bad, no reason to change characters at least."

Being able to be 0-to-deathed off a jab sounds like about as good a reason as I'll ever get to not use Robin against Fox.

 

[Raziek]

Don't get jabbed in the middle of the stage then. Maybe try getting jabbed by the ledge so it's not as many.

I'm gonna point something out to all of you. Dath and I are the best Robin players not named Nairo, and we are telling you this **** is doable.

Meanwhile lots of the rest of you are complaining about how Robin isn't good enough instead of learning to work around your weaknesses. If all you want to do is crap up the forum with whining about how Robin needs buffs, then you're not really concerned with working towards a better future for Robin. You're waiting for it to be hand-delivered to you in the form of a patch.

It CAN be done with Robin, and those of you who take pessimistic views into a match defeat yourself before the announcer even says go.

 

[ThatRandomGuy42]

Don't get jabbed in the middle of the stage then. Maybe try getting jabbed by the ledge so it's not as many.

I'm gonna point something out to all of you. Dath and I are the best Robin players not named Nairo, and we are telling you this **** is doable.

Meanwhile lots of the rest of you are complaining about how Robin isn't good enough instead of learning to work around your weaknesses. If all you want to do is crap up the forum with whining about how Robin needs buffs, then you're not really concerned with working towards a better future for Robin. You're waiting for it to be hand-delivered to you in the form of a patch.

It CAN be done with Robin, and those of you who take pessimistic views into a match defeat yourself before the announcer even says go.

I do sincerely think Robin could use something to help them out a little, but they are far from 'desperate'. I don't know how good of a Robin I am (I like to think I'm above average at least) but all of Robin's bad match-ups are certainly do-able. More than anything, you need patience and sharp reactions to take on Sheik and Sonic.
Fox, while he has the jab-lock, is very vulnerable to Robin's Elwind neutral, and he's just the right weight to remain trapped in it for a long time and can still be easily KO'd by it.