The Falchions Match-Up Discussion (Week 2: Luigi)

[Locuan]

​

Welcome to the new Match-Up Discussion format. This week we will focus on the Luigi Match-Up. Main Thread.

Special Moves Allowed| |
Default only || ?
Default + Custom || ?
Difference || ?

Discussion will include match-ups in both the custom and no custom environment. Let's begin!

 

[Pugwest]

70-30 no Customs, Simply has priority over everything we do, fireballs cant be power shielded on approach because he will just run up and grab you without a consequence and his Nado gimps our up-b recovery.

75-25 Customs on, Ice balls are slower, and if luigi uses one, takes a step and uses one again it become impossible to even power shield both resulting in a grab.

Tips - Platform stages are a must, rolling is actually something you have to do and camp/timing him out is the best option. Do not challenge off stage and recover high.

 

[Emblem Lord]

A blocked fireball is not a free grab.

Not even close.

Cut that out.

 

[Xisin]

you exaggerate both weegee and pika pug. you can outspace luigi much like the brawl match up, he moves really slow in the air, the problem here is when he gets something on you he just rolls all over you, unlike sheik though hes much easier to prevent from getting inside your sword. I honestly think it's evenish. This match up makes me rage though as I feel like i'm walking on nails, it's sort of like the the ic match up. it's not a terrible one for us, but god that punish game of luigi.... You must be spot on with dancing blade timing, or you will get naird.

 

[Pugwest]

A blocked fireball is not a free grab.

Not even close.

Cut that out.

Give me a Known Weegee u played, tell me how it went. and Why you lost/won

 

[fox67890]

To be honest (and I may very well be wrong on this) I think normal blocked fireballs may actually lead to a grab, but that's a level of commitment from Luigi. He can't react to you blocking a fireball, and then go for a grab. He just has to hope the fireball connects or you did a normal block (if they actually do lead to a grab).

The thing is though, the fireballs are super easy to powershield, and you can stuff out any grounded approach from it immediately with dtilt. Normally blocking the fireballs I find to be pretty bad. Powerblocking them into a dtilt saves you from getting grabbed in that situation.

I'm not sure what you mean by fireballs can't be power-shielded on approach--they definitely can be, and should be. Just walk>power-block>immediate dtilt.

Priority isn't a big deal vs Marth's sword tbh.

The big thing is spacing (with retreating fairs and nair in place) and watching out for his cyclone to throw off Marth's spacing.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Anything Luigi has over us we can beat. Fireballs can be great for luigi if you don't retreat enough. I think that Iai counter effectively destroys this small advantage. Without customs 60-40, With 50-50.

Weegee is pretty easy once you get to know him TBH. I haven't seen many weegee mains mix up their standard bread and butter options. Easy to see what's coming in that mu.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Give me a Known Weegee u played, tell me how it went. and Why you lost/won

Don't do this.

I'm talking about pure math, reaction time and frame data.

This is not a **** measuring contest. Luigi throwing a fireball is NEVER a free grab when you block. Your sentence structure implies he has enough time to grab you from block in any situation regardless of distance.

That is empirically false.

 

[Pugwest]

Don't do this.

I'm talking about pure math, reaction time and frame data.

This is not a **** measuring contest. Luigi throwing a fireball is NEVER a free grab when you block. Your sentence structure implies he has enough time to grab you from block in any situation regardless of distance.

That is empirically false.

Far away = your safe, when you start getting closer is when shielding fire balls = free grabs. Frame data can be flawed / math if calculated incorrectly so instead of basing all your opinions off of them why not try out actually playing the game? It's like you saying I have that 1 frame to punish someone on the ledge so I should ALWAYS 100% of the time be able to punish that frame.

 

[Locuan]

@ Pugwest , when doing Match-Up discussions we must assume that the characters in the match-up are being used to their strongest potential or as close to it as possible. This is why Emblem Lord mentioned math/frame data in the way he does. I understand what you are trying to say though. When Luigi fireballs, it can be used as a bait. If at a certain range and if Luigi's opponent reacts incorrectly, it can lead into a grab. For example, a shield, spotdodge, etc. Hence, we must word our analysis correctly and highlight every possible scenario in order not to be misinterpreted.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Far away = your safe, when you start getting closer is when shielding fire balls = free grabs. Frame data can be flawed / math if calculated incorrectly so instead of basing all your opinions off of them why not try out actually playing the game? It's like you saying I have that 1 frame to punish someone on the ledge so I should ALWAYS 100% of the time be able to punish that frame.

Do you play the game my good man? You posted something blatantly false so maybe you should be putting that question to yourself.

There is an optimal range Luigi wants to be at for fireball set-ups for it to be a tight grab trap. Any further and Lugi does not have the mobility to close before an opponent could move out of the way. Too close and you can just punish Luigi during his recovery or block and roll away. There is nothing "free" about any grab set-up that involves fireballs.

Also that last sentence you posted. Worthless analogy. You basically took a situation that has several variables and compared it to another that comes down to purely having impossible machine-like reaction time.

I grow weary of this argument. I'm not here to get into it with my own brethren.

 

[Langston777]

When Luigi throws a fireball at me and i block it i usually utilt/dtilt OoS. if i'm too close and react accordingly i'll roll or spotdodge. (i can't do this **** online though)

You can sort of dash around the space where his fireball fizzles out and force him to place them more carefully and move around himself. you'll eventually land a swing at him or bait him into approaching. If you get hit by a fireball in the air i find it very hard to avoid getting grabbed so i try to stick to the ground outside of poking with sh fairs to make sure he doesn't just run up and grab me.

His recovery is sort of ambiguous but it's laggy and floaty, kind of something Marth can react to and swat away. Good luigis can get back on stage really well though if they're close and have all their options to mix up.

as far as customs go i run vanilla, DA gets stuffed by his spammable projectile so i haven't found a use for it. Iaicounter may be good for not getting caught up in low % strings but i've never tried it. dunno what CS does to luigi.

Also, it's VERY important to be able to DI all of Luigi's followups. When luigi grabs me I DI into him so he can't double fair you for free everytime(he'll probably be able to bair you if he reads you though). Then there's DIing the downthrow, the tornado, and his upsmash. so make sure you practice that to keep luigi guessing; you don't want to get flowcharted and regrabbed

 

[SirAemiliusII]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forums, and I'm also a Marth secondary. This is my first time contributing to an MU thread, but I'd say that the matchup is 50:50, if not, 45:55 Marth.

Marth:
Marth's sword puts him at a bit of an advantage, and with the correct spacing, is Marth's key to victory. Marth cannot allow Luigi to get behind his sword, as Luigi's monstrous priority, damaging attacks, and devastating combos will be the death of him. You won't be true comboing Luigi with down throw, however, it's easy to juggle Luigi with Uair, because not only is the hitbox disjointed, but it out-ranges Luigi's down air. Watch out for a surprise down-B landing attempt.
Luigi:
Luigi basically spams fireballs until Marth slips up and Luigi sees an opening to grab. That's literally all Luigi has to do in this matchup, besides recovering efficiently.
Luigi's green missile gives him horizontal recovery, but during the end lag of this move, Marth can easily land a Fair that at mid to high percents, will most likely cost Luigi a stock. However, Marth has slightly more difficulty challenging a Luigi who recovers low with down-B and such.

That's it for my first MU post, I hoped you guys liked it, and I'd appreciate any type of replies or criticisms on it.