The Diddy Lab

[Orocket]

Hey guys! I'm starting this thread to get some discussion going. What are some of the bread and butter combos and set-ups we should be using after this patch? With the upthrow nerf and the weird knockback growth on dthrow what should we focus on for combos at low and high percents. Also what are some of the kill options we should be using?

 

[DewDaDash]

Going to the character select screen and picking sheik I heard is good

 

[Orocket]

Going to the character select screen and picking sheik I heard is good

Ahh Dewda, whats up man? You dropping Diddy? Is it just gonna be me and Dolo maining Diddy now? @ DewDaDash

 

[DewDaDash]

I think so but I don't have enough time to pick up sheik before CEO, so this will be my last tourney as a Diddy main. With that said however, I'll give my best effort at CEO with Diddy.

 

[Orocket]

I think so but I don't have enough time to pick up sheik before CEO, so this will be my last tourney as a Diddy main. With that said however, I'll give my best effort at CEO with Diddy.

Yeah. This patch was horrible. It completely changed the character. He doesn't even feel like he should be played how he was last patch and killing takes forever.

 

[Pazx]

Someone should look into whether we can true combo into dair from either throw and at what percentages it works. Angel Cortes was keen on this option (because it really opens up possibilities) but to me it seems like it can be airdodged out of 100% of the time.

My general "what to do if I get a grab" flowchart looks like this now:

0% - fthrow fair

1% - 60% - alternate between dthrow and uthrow combos (at lower percentages typically utilising bair) to keep throws fresh and mix up DI

61% - 120% - dthrow combos. if opponent's DI is good, fthrow or bthrow for stage positioning and edgeguarding potential. don't forget to pummel

Uthrow uair is kinda ****ty now so I really don't start looking for it until about 120ish (depending on character). I'll do some testing as to when it's inescapable death but I think the window is even smaller now than in 1.0.7 and I'm losing interest in playing this character.

 

[Orocket]

Someone should look into whether we can true combo into dair from either throw and at what percentages it works. Angel Cortes was keen on this option (because it really opens up possibilities) but to me it seems like it can be airdodged out of 100% of the time.

My general "what to do if I get a grab" flowchart looks like this now:

0% - fthrow fair

1% - 60% - alternate between dthrow and uthrow combos (at lower percentages typically utilising bair) to keep throws fresh and mix up DI

61% - 120% - dthrow combos. if opponent's DI is good, fthrow or bthrow for stage positioning and edgeguarding potential. don't forget to pummel

Uthrow uair is kinda ****ty now so I really don't start looking for it until about 120ish (depending on character). I'll do some testing as to when it's inescapable death but I think the window is even smaller now than in 1.0.7 and I'm losing interest in playing this character.

Yep at higher percents it seems impossible to combo with dthrow if they DI away though. They really messed up dthrow combos. I've been able to dthrow and wait out an airdodge and then connect with a dair. This works pretty well when people are expecting an upair or a fair and are airdodging immediately when you throw them. You can dthrow to bair from low to mid percents (this is good to keep fair from staling). Upthrow to dair seems like a good option, like Angel Cortes mentioned. If they airdodge they are usually trapped and you can hit them with another move.

This is what I like to do:
At low percents - upthrow ---> dair (this can be airdodged, but you can hit them with another move after they airdodge), dthrow ---> bair (sometimes two bairs), and upthrow ---> fair.
At mid percents - dthrow ---> wait out airdodge and dair or upthrow ---> upair (this is more reliable). You can still upthrow to fair or bair but depending on percent and weight these may not connect.
At high percents - banana ---> fsmash or try to upthrow ---> upair (but like you said this is *** now). Also, dtilit ---> upsmash or dtilit ---> RAR bair.
At insanely high percents () - try to kill with fthrow, bthrow, or uptilt.

 

[Luigi player]

Here are the things I had in mind yesterday while trying to think about his combos. Maybe I forgot some.

most of the time / always:

uthrow -> uair / fair / bair
banana -> "anything"

very low %:

dthrow -> uair / fair / bair (maybe a little more like nair but that's kinda useless)

mid %:

rising uair -> uair
dtilt -> dtilt / jab? / grab?
bair -> bair
sideB kick edgecancel -> uair / fair ..
sideB kick (hit them with the very late part) -> fair / ..
landing nair -> uair / fair / bair / utilt ..
utilt -> utilt
sh-fair-land -> fair (depends on character etc.)
dashattack -> fair / uair ..

high %:

dtilt -> fair / bair / usmash



Most of the time I'm using uthrow -> fair now. Saw Zinoto doing these all the time and they're doing the most damage while also setting up a little bit for juggles since the opponent has to come back down to the stage from above.

uthrow -> fair does ~15 %
uthrow -> uair does ~11 %
bthrow does ~13 %

So uthrow -> uair is only good to set up, or to KO if uair is still fresh and your rage and the opponents % are right for it to work. Sometimes you might be able to get a double bair out of uthrow or dthrow, but that will depend on your opponents DI / fallspeed / % (your rage and opponents damage) / character, so it's not that reliable.
Bthrow could be saved to KO your opponent, but I'm not so sure if that's worth it...

KOing is different for each character kinda since some of them are easier to hit with a KO move than others.
We all know the bread and butter bananatoss -> fsmash.
And dtilt -> usmash or dtilt -> fair / RAR bair (on the edges of the stage at pretty high %s).
Other than that... throws at the edge (KO at pretty high %s), dsmash (back hit) for reads, and of course utilt, which seems one of the more reliable options.
All of them KO pretty late except for fsmash.
At 180+ (can happen often now) sideB kick or the sideB grab attack can KO at the edge of the stage as well.
The occasional dair spike helps too, of course.

 

[Jaylowww]

Sup Diddy boards, with EVO just around the corner I've been experimenting with customs lately and in particular, the 1121 set-up using the Rocketbarrel Attack. I find that it immensely helps with Diddy's nerfed kill power, as the kill power on the custom up B is ridiculous.

I tested out on FD against Mario in the middle of the stage and found that Up B kills at the top blastzone at around 90% with no rage. It's very reminiscent of release day uair, without the godlike frame data. The best thing about this is that since Up B is jump cancellable, you can get kills off banana hit confirms at throw distances where an fsmash follow-up is just a bit too far away. You can also read their airdodge off an uthrow at high %s and follow up with the Up B.

The downside to this is that since the trajectory of the Up B is more vertical, it is much easier to gimp Diddy with this set-up when going low for recovery. Thus, the dynamics of Diddy's recovery game is changed to a point that you're forced to recover high in certain MUs.

Killing people at 100% off a banana throw has never been so satisfying though, a feeling I'm missed from pre 1.0.6

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes Rocketbarrel Attack might be our saving grace in these times. Really would like it if someone made a video of hit confirms with this attack, as I still can't really figure the move out at times.

 

[Advent Lee]

D-Tilt -> Jab (of course you can mix up with doing the full jab or gentleman into something else like grab)
D-Tilt -> up angled F-Tilt
Bair -> Usmash

All true combos.

-lee

 

[Orocket]

D-Tilt -> Jab (of course you can mix up with doing the full jab or gentleman into something else like grab)
D-Tilt -> up angled F-Tilt
Bair -> Usmash

All true combos.

-lee

At what percents is bair to upsmash a true combo? That's a nice combo .

 

[SPAZ494]

I just started to main diddy, which may seem weird, but I enjoy playing him after a long search for my main. Anyway I've been testing nair combos.
This is against Mario on Final Destination in training mode so this is without rage.
Nair->bair->bair?
works 0% to 143%ish
The second back air work only until 35% roughly. It may start to depend on DI at the higher percents.

Nair->dair
doesn't actually combo but if used near the ledge it could lead to a spike.

Nair->usmash
Works between 0% to 20%ish the third bit can be difficult to connect

Nair->fair
Works between 0% to 140%ish and starting at about 30% you may be able to follow up with more.

Nair->Uair
Works between 0% to 161%ish and it begins to kill at 148%

These all combo (except to dair) and it will probably depend on DI at higher percents but it way be possible earlier with rage. I enjoy these combos though

 

[Advent Lee]

@ Orocket Lower percents. I know it works at 20% watch the videos below.

I made 2 videos today demonstrating some of his unique but potent combos that I haven't seen anyone else use or mention.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aKSY1qHOu44

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YW-MEzC258k

There's more including little tricks but its a little difficult for me to make videos. Either way, tell me what you think.

-lee

 

[Orocket]

@ Orocket Lower percents. I know it works at 20% watch the videos below.

I made 2 videos today demonstrating some of his unique but potent combos that I haven't seen anyone else use or mention.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aKSY1qHOu44

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YW-MEzC258k

There's more including little tricks but its a little difficult for me to make videos. Either way, tell me what you think.

-lee

Very nice! Thanks for the videos. Those combos are great and I'll definitely add them to my arsenal.

 

[Orocket]

I just started to main diddy, which may seem weird, but I enjoy playing him after a long search for my main. Anyway I've been testing nair combos.
This is against Mario on Final Destination in training mode so this is without rage.
Nair->bair->bair?
works 0% to 143%ish
The second back air work only until 35% roughly. It may start to depend on DI at the higher percents.

Nair->dair
doesn't actually combo but if used near the ledge it could lead to a spike.

Nair->usmash
Works between 0% to 20%ish the third bit can be difficult to connect

Nair->fair
Works between 0% to 140%ish and starting at about 30% you may be able to follow up with more.

Nair->Uair
Works between 0% to 161%ish and it begins to kill at 148%

These all combo (except to dair) and it will probably depend on DI at higher percents but it way be possible earlier with rage. I enjoy these combos though

Nair is a great combo tool that I feel more people should use.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nair is a great combo tool that I feel more people should use.

It's definitely one of my least used moves because it doesn't really have the range or priority of Diddy's other aerials, but it's indeed a move that needs to be used more. A great surprise tactic.

 

[Pazx]

Uthrow creates a 50/50 at kill percentages with the killing up special. Your options are uair (beats jump) or rocketbarrel attack (beats airdodge). If you guess right, you get the kill. Custom Diddy is pretty good.

 

[busken]

Edge Slip F-air is cool after U-throw combos.

 

[Vyrnx]

Banana glidetoss into utilt is my go to kill confirm at 150ish. Works on midweights or lower at this percent. I prefer it to banana fsmash because it's more reliable and the combo happens so fast people rarely DI.

 

[Orocket]

Banana glidetoss into utilt is my go to kill confirm at 150ish. Works on midweights or lower at this percent. I prefer it to banana fsmash because it's more reliable and the combo happens so fast people rarely DI.

Also, if thy DI towards the stage expecting an fsmash it probably kills them earlier than if they don't DI.

 

[Vyrnx]

Also I was testing on Shulk in training and found a combo between 60-100%. If you run towards the opponent and glidetoss a banana up right when you reach them and do an utilt, they will fly up and hit the banana while it's coming down. This allows you to follow up with an uair. The whole combo (utilt -> banana -> uair) registers as a true combo. Not sure how useful this is, but the glide toss lets you get in and utilt comes out pretty fast, and the banana guarantees an uair follow up where otherwise you couldn't get one. The combo is actually really easy to pull off--the banana will always hit them if done right. There might be other follow ups besides uair. I did find that at some percents, like 70ish, I could get a guaranteed rocket boost. Idk how useful this is other than just styling lol.

Edit: In an actual battle this is not that useful. Diddy is too easy to punish during the sliding animation, and more often that not the opponent shields because a glide toss uthrow takes longer than an fthrow and they have more time to prepare. However, people do forget about the banana and will go for punishes that they can't do without getting hit by the banana when it comes back down. So overall not that great

 

[busken]

D-tilt:


Double D-tilt

Rosalina and Luma:38-51

Mr.Game and Watch: 37-69

Jigglypuff: 36-45

Kirby: 38-48

Peach 41-67


Villager 43-55

Wii Fit Trainer 42-82

Luigi 43-75

Ness 42-68

Toon Link 42-83

Yoshi 42-77

Samus 45-66


Sheik 40-93

Falco 39-99

Little Mac 39-73

ZSS 39-83


Mario 43-88

Doc 43-88

Shulk 44-77

Lucario 43-71


Link 44-75

DK 55-

Can somebody do the rest I'm too lazy...The general trend is that on lightweights it starts at 35,45, and 55 for all characters. However, even at low percents like at 0 double d-tilt is pmuch guranteed since they need to powerhshield on frame 1 which is so impractical. Only the CPU did it

 

[Orocket]

D-tilt:


Double D-tilt

Rosalina and Luma:38-51

Mr.Game and Watch: 37-69

Jigglypuff: 36-45

Kirby: 38-48

Peach 41-67


Villager 43-55

Wii Fit Trainer 42-82

Luigi 43-75

Ness 42-68

Toon Link 42-83

Yoshi 42-77

Samus 45-66


Sheik 40-93

Falco 39-99

Little Mac 39-73

ZSS 39-83


Mario 43-88

Doc 43-88

Shulk 44-77

Lucario 43-71


Link 44-75

DK 55-

Can somebody do the rest I'm too lazy...The general trend is that on lightweights it starts at 35,45, and 55 for all characters. However, even at low percents like at 0 double d-tilt is pmuch guranteed since they need to powerhshield on frame 1 which is so impractical. Only the CPU did it

Thanks for doing this. I was looking into this today as well!

 

[Boasting Toast]

Damn, you guys got no innovation on this board.
Under platforms, you can do uthrow > double bair > land and usmash on the platform. Works very reliably and racks up tons of damage at low percents. I've also managed to hit an fsmash out of it too. At high percents you can do uthrow > airdodge bait > up B, I don't use customs and I nab kills with it pretty often. Barrel explosions are a useful tool to catch your opponent off guard as well. It has a very large vertical hitbox so you can hit them from above/below a platform and the hitbox will reach them. I also have a jab lock combo that is very hard to pull off but works at low percents, I've managed to pull it off in tourney a few times. Basically, you do dthrow, jump up and footstool them, read their DI, fast fall and hit them with the dair as they land, if you get the timing JUST right, you can follow up with 2 ftilts to extend the lock, but most of the time they get up before the ftilt has time to come out. Upon getup you can punish with whatever you want, I usually do double dtilt > grab > uthrow/dthrow > fair/double bair. Also another option I like to use with bananas off the ledge is zdrop > dair, it's great for catching their recovery with the banana and confirming it into a spike. I've managed to pull off insane mindgames by throwing my banana at the wall, z catching it, double jump z drop, dair. Diddy is a very mindgame oriented character and I don't think Diddy players put that to good enough use. Oh, and I'd like to see more dthrow > flip kick > fair/uair combos, I can do it pretty consistently, it's not as situational as people think. This is data I've collected after maining Diddy for about 2 months. So far, Diddy has landed me 11th on the Central Florida power rankings. I love this monkey.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Damn, you guys got no innovation on this board.
Under platforms, you can do uthrow > double bair > land and usmash on the platform. Works very reliably and racks up tons of damage at low percents. I've also managed to hit an fsmash out of it too. At high percents you can do uthrow > airdodge bait > up B, I don't use customs and I nab kills with it pretty often. Barrel explosions are a useful tool to catch your opponent off guard as well. It has a very large vertical hitbox so you can hit them from above/below a platform and the hitbox will reach them. I also have a jab lock combo that is very hard to pull off but works at low percents, I've managed to pull it off in tourney a few times. Basically, you do dthrow, jump up and footstool them, read their DI, fast fall and hit them with the dair as they land, if you get the timing JUST right, you can follow up with 2 ftilts to extend the lock, but most of the time they get up before the ftilt has time to come out. Upon getup you can punish with whatever you want, I usually do double dtilt > grab > uthrow/dthrow > fair/double bair. Also another option I like to use with bananas off the ledge is zdrop > dair, it's great for catching their recovery with the banana and confirming it into a spike. I've managed to pull off insane mindgames by throwing my banana at the wall, z catching it, double jump z drop, dair. Diddy is a very mindgame oriented character and I don't think Diddy players put that to good enough use. Oh, and I'd like to see more dthrow > flip kick > fair/uair combos, I can do it pretty consistently, it's not as situational as people think. This is data I've collected after maining Diddy for about 2 months. So far, Diddy has landed me 11th on the Central Florida power rankings. I love this monkey.

You should check out the combo thread, also, please don't rip on people, we don't really go into situational combos. And this thread is basically dead.
1st combo, pretty cool, the Bair-Bair is a true combo around forty, so as long as you read their DI it should work every time.
2nd combo, I'm pretty sure everyone knows about this, but at what percent would that kill? It seems like we could be punished harder if they read it. And if it doesn't kill until 100% it might be better to go for a more reliable kill confirm.
3rd combo, Isn't that just a jab lock? Like it is a set-up for jab lock but it is probably better to go for the New-Haa combo...
Neat banana tricks tho...
As well as a cool spike set-up, that might even true, depending on where you are.
4th combo, New-Haa! That combo is so freaking great, I almost always hit with it too. I am actually making a list of it's Percents on each character, including DI. It is not situational at all and true combos. The only DI where it never works is back, and that leads into great combos as well!

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Damn, you guys got no innovation on this board.
Under platforms, you can do uthrow > double bair > land and usmash on the platform. Works very reliably and racks up tons of damage at low percents. I've also managed to hit an fsmash out of it too. At high percents you can do uthrow > airdodge bait > up B, I don't use customs and I nab kills with it pretty often. Barrel explosions are a useful tool to catch your opponent off guard as well. It has a very large vertical hitbox so you can hit them from above/below a platform and the hitbox will reach them. I also have a jab lock combo that is very hard to pull off but works at low percents, I've managed to pull it off in tourney a few times. Basically, you do dthrow, jump up and footstool them, read their DI, fast fall and hit them with the dair as they land, if you get the timing JUST right, you can follow up with 2 ftilts to extend the lock, but most of the time they get up before the ftilt has time to come out. Upon getup you can punish with whatever you want, I usually do double dtilt > grab > uthrow/dthrow > fair/double bair. Also another option I like to use with bananas off the ledge is zdrop > dair, it's great for catching their recovery with the banana and confirming it into a spike. I've managed to pull off insane mindgames by throwing my banana at the wall, z catching it, double jump z drop, dair. Diddy is a very mindgame oriented character and I don't think Diddy players put that to good enough use. Oh, and I'd like to see more dthrow > flip kick > fair/uair combos, I can do it pretty consistently, it's not as situational as people think. This is data I've collected after maining Diddy for about 2 months. So far, Diddy has landed me 11th on the Central Florida power rankings. I love this monkey.

I hate to be that guy who necro posts but...honestly, if people think they're being inventive with this situational garbage then meh.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Hey, so ZeRo showed off this little tidbit of awesomeness awhile ago but in case you missed it, Diddy can buffer ff fair to get out of sheiks Dthrow to Uair combo. It beats Uair but loses to vanish. It is still better then the usual chances though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hey, so ZeRo showed off this little tidbit of awesomeness awhile ago but in case you missed it, Diddy can buffer ff fair to get out of sheiks Dthrow to Uair combo. It beats Uair but loses to vanish. It is still better then the usual chances though.

Footage is strongly needed for this!

Eagerly awaiting,

Kong

 

[Sonicninja115]

Footage is strongly needed for this!

Eagerly awaiting,

Kong

I know he did it a PAX and MVD used it at Paragon I think, I will look into it later.

 

[Pazx]

The one time I've seen FF fair actually come out the Diddy got torched by vanish lmao. It's okay, but jumping is better.

 

[Top Boss]

how come i never see anyone use d throw>side B>Up/forward air? does pretty close to 30 iirc and its true

 

[Sonicninja115]

how come i never see anyone use d throw>side B>Up/forward air? does pretty close to 30 iirc and its true

It's still new and being developed, ZeRo might incorporate it into his style but it isn't easy to pull off consistently on account of the DI possibility's. It might be a staple of Diddy's meta, but it will probably end up as a good mix-up. Did you check out the other thread? I posted a conversation I had with a pro, never say their names for they are always watching... quite literally, they look up their names.

 

[Top Boss]

lol no, I didn't look at other threads. i don't use diddy so yeah

 

[MVD]

lol I been doing FF fair to get out of sheiks combos since pre CEO

 

[Sonicninja115]

lol I been doing FF fair to get out of sheiks combos since pre CEO

They are everywhere! lol.

Awesome, I didn't learn that it works until some commentators mentioned it at PAX, It only loses to vanish right?

 

[MVD]

They are everywhere! lol.

Awesome, I didn't learn that it works until some commentators mentioned it at PAX, It only loses to vanish right?

Only loses to a very specific angle of vanish. It beats normal vanish angles.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Hey, so I found a couple of new combos, FF Uair-Uair-Uair and Uair-Bair and probably another Bair.

 

[Pazx]

here's something i mentioned I might do way back in june. spoiler: hoo hah is alive and well, and you can expect a thread from me soon.

~WIP~

These are just some kill percentages for uthrow uair I'd rather not forget. They aren't particularly precise, these are just the magic numbers I keep in my head however this time tomorrow these numbers will be rather precise. Also please note that I make a conscious effort to stale my uthrow and I never use uair unless it's the only way for me to hit my opponent and they're not nearing kill percent. Bonus cool thing: fthrow stutter step fsmash is really cool. It's not true but people seem to get hit by it more often than not.

I've already forgotten a few that I've tested, so I'm going to do some in depth testing tomorrow and record the data. I'll probably do Rosalina, Fox, ZSS, Sheik, Diddy, WFT, Yoshi, Falcon, Wario and D3 with rage at 0%, 50%, 100% and 150% with uthrow in the stale moves queue once, and I'll see how a fully staled uthrow changes the %range in which this combo kills. Will also check Halberd and BF as the stages with the highest and lowest ceilings.

This is for stages with the ceiling height of FD/SV/DH/etc. Percentage is before the dthrow. Remember pummels can tack on some %, but they also get added to the stale moves queue!

Vs. Pit (middleweight... like literally middle I think his weight value is either the median or the mean)
Kills at 130% with no rage
Kills at 90% with 150% rage

Vs. Falcon (heaviest tournament relevant character... rip )
Kills at 150% with no rage
Kills at 140% with 60% rage
Kills at 120% with 120% rage

Vs.
Kills at like... 180% with 0% rage, but it's impossible to **** up lol the window is pretty long

Just a personal note, I'm quite excited (?) to be playing Diddy again. I didn't use him for the better part of a 2 month period but before my last tourney I switched to him in friendlies against one of my region's top players because I didn't want him getting a download on a character I was preparing to debut that weekend (this was about 3 weeks ago now). I ended up getting a ZSS in my pool the day of the tournament and as the two characters I was expecting to use get completely ****ed on by her I went with Diddy from my first game of the day and I haven't looked back.