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The Dandy Keef Presents: The Customs Civil War

LiteralGrill

Smokin' Hot~
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
5,976
Location
Wisconsin
There are several stereotypes around Smash 4 and quite a few in jokes within the Smash community surrounding it. Some are more lighthearted and others not. However as Payne Stewart said, "If you can't laugh at yourself, then how can you laugh at anybody else? I think people see the human side of you when you do that."

Enter The Dandy Keef. Armed with a solid sense of humor he charges into the battlegrounds of comedy to take on topical moment in the Smash community. By far some of the most popular videos he has created are the Things Smash 4 Players Don't Say videos. This time we take a brief look at Smash history and a battle we all face that may never leave us the same: The Customs Civil War.


Hopefully the video gave people a good laugh and can spark a bit of discussion. To keep an eye out for other videos in the series and see his other works, go check out The Dandy Keef's Youtube channel.

SmashCapps always enjoys videos coming out of this channel. To share a laugh with him, go check him out on Twitter.
 

Sgt-Sol

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
234
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Toledo , Ohio
NNID
Sol-Bird 64
3DS FC
2681-1465-2550
Idc I'm still on
Even tho my main don't even have customs
 

J.P

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
396
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150195
3DS FC
2466-2692-8715
In my opinion this is the most underrated Smash youtuber, he has a great ability to satirize Smash 4 scrubby community while still being respectful. On my side of customs? Idc tbh, I just play the game... like everybody should.
 

Laggalot101

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
122
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Netherlands
3DS FC
1418-6741-7161
In my opinion this is the most underrated Smash youtuber, he has a great ability to satirize Smash 4 scrubby community while still being respectful. On my side of customs? Idc tbh, I just play the game... like everybody should.
You talk about respect, then call the Smash 4 community 'scrubby'.

Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?
 

DahremRuhar

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
594
Location
Syracuse, NY
You talk about respect, then call the Smash 4 community 'scrubby'.

Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?
Yes you probably are. He didn't say "the scrubby Smash 4 community" he said " the Smash 4 scrubby community."

That refers to the numerous scrubby Smash 4 players, not the entire community. "Scrubby" is often used as a noun. There are realistically enough Smash 4 players who are also scrubbies to call them their own community.

And when did he mention "respect?" I don't see it. The most ironic thing I see is you pointing out perceived hypocrisy without even reading the post you replied to.

Damn scrubby.
 

Alph Aran

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Messages
155
NNID
AlphSquad
Diverse gameplay is freedom! Laughing over hype custom match moments is liberation! Expanding the future of this game's longevity is the aim! Those are the facts of this game! If you all will not surrender to them, then at least do not get in the way of players looking to confuse the metagame with customs! Until then, I'm going to enjoy watching some more customs highlights the Smashboards authors show.
 

Laggalot101

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 23, 2014
Messages
122
Location
Netherlands
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Yes you probably are. He didn't say "the scrubby Smash 4 community" he said " the Smash 4 scrubby community."

That refers to the numerous scrubby Smash 4 players, not the entire community. "Scrubby" is often used as a noun. There are realistically enough Smash 4 players who are also scrubbies to call them their own community.

And when did he mention "respect?" I don't see it. The most ironic thing I see is you pointing out perceived hypocrisy without even reading the post you replied to.

Damn scrubby.
That's damn poor wording then, if that were true. Why not 'scrubs in the Smash 4 community'? It's not that difficult. The wording that is used makes it at the very least seem like the entire Smash 4 community is being referred to.

Also, I quote: "he has a great ability to satirize Smash 4 scrubby community while still being respectful." That last word. No mention of respect, you say? What? Did you seriously miss that? This quote strongly suggests J.P person values respect. And I don't see how this could possibly be subject to misinterpretation. That's why I say it's ironic when he calls a community scrubby in the same sentence.

Finally consider the context. This youtuber is satirizing the Smash 4 community as a whole, no way around that. J.P is referring to this youtuber in his comment. This, to me, also suggests this is directed at the Smash 4 community as a whole.
 
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DahremRuhar

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
594
Location
Syracuse, NY
That's damn poor wording then, if that were true. Why not 'scrubs in the Smash 4 community'? It's not that difficult. The wording that is used makes it at the very least seem like the entire Smash 4 community is being referred to.

Also, I quote: "he has a great ability to satirize Smash 4 scrubby community while still being respectful." That last word. No mention of respect, you say? What? Did you seriously miss that? This quote strongly suggests J.P person values respect. And I don't see how this could possibly be subject to misinterpretation. That's why I say it's ironic when he calls a community scrubby in the same sentence.

Finally consider the context. This youtuber is satirizing the Smash 4 community as a whole, no way around that. J.P is referring to this youtuber in his comment. This, to me, also suggests this is directed at the Smash 4 community as a whole.
I can see your point, and somehow I actually did miss that he used the word respect. My bad.

I suppose I'm being optimistic in my belief that he was referring to the scrubbies and not the entire community. Eh, w/e this community has always been divided in one way or another.
 

The Usurper

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
10
Location
The trunk of your car.
I think Custom moves are for scrubs. I despise Customs.* Customs are for people who want things to be easier and the matchup to be cut out for them. Come on, people. The competitive Smash community is and always was about skill. Implementing Customs is crippling this philosophy and making players dependent on them. Sticking with Defaults shows skill, competence of the characters and matchup, and perhaps even a bit of respect to the subsequent Smash Bros. installments, since everyone had one moveset, their Default.

*I only tolerate Customs for the Mii Fighters and Palutena. Why the Mii Fighters? They're Miis, duh. They were MADE to be customized; they're YOU. Why Palutena? Her Default moveset sucks on purpose, so you can customize it yourself. Everyone else in the cast is fine the way they are (even if their Defaults kinda suck). And yes, I'm pointing fingers at people who use 2-1-2-2 Ganondorf and 3-2-3-1 Donkey Kong. Don't try to make bad characters better. Characters such as Ganon and DK, however tragic, were made bad in Brawl, and they stayed generally the same when carried over to Smash 4. Sakurai made them stay the same.
 
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DahremRuhar

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
594
Location
Syracuse, NY
I think Custom moves are for scrubs. I despise Customs.* Customs are for people who want things to be easier and the matchup to be cut out for them. Come on, people. The competitive Smash community is and always was about skill. Implementing Customs is crippling this philosophy and making players dependent on them. Sticking with Defaults shows skill, competence of the characters and matchup, and perhaps even a bit of respect to the subsequent Smash Bros. installments, since everyone had one moveset, their Default.

*I only tolerate Customs for the Mii Fighters and Palutena. Why the Mii Fighters? They're Miis, duh. They were MADE to be customized; they're YOU. Why Palutena? Her Default moveset sucks on purpose, so you can customize it yourself. Everyone else in the cast is fine the way they are (even if their Defaults kinda suck). And yes, I'm pointing fingers at people who use 2-1-2-2 Ganondorf and 3-2-3-1 Donkey Kong. Don't try to make bad characters better. Characters such as Ganon and DK, however tragic, were made bad in Brawl, and they stayed generally the same when carried over to Smash 4. Sakurai made them stay the same.
Sounds like you lose hard to custom DK and Ganon.
 

Froggy

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
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3DS FC
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The people who ***** about customs are people who play top tiers. I think people who support customs need to speak out a bit harder on this. **** YOU TOP TIER MAINS!
 

Atrabilious

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Feb 22, 2015
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WHY CAN'T WE JUST HAVE BOTH?

I imagine people don't want to have to learn two different metagames just to compete in sm4sh. Reality is EVO will be make or break for customs, and whichever way it goes will determine what becomes the focus and what becomes the side show. Whatever becomes the main focus will likely become standard in big tournaments, the ones associated with cash-payouts and y'know just general prestige. People aren't going to put as much time into a meta that isn't standard at tournaments, because the competition isn't going to be there.
 

The Usurper

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
10
Location
The trunk of your car.
The people who ***** about customs are people who play top tiers. I think people who support customs need to speak out a bit harder on this. **** YOU TOP TIER MAINS!
Hey, I main the best character in the game, but I also like mid-to-low-tiers. I like playing as Bowser, Ganondorf, DDD, Lucina, and Dark Pit. :grin:

People who support Customs are either new to the game, or slackers. #shotsfired :joyful:
 

Froggy

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Hey, I main the best character in the game, but I also like mid-to-low-tiers. I like playing as Bowser, Ganondorf, DDD, Lucina, and Dark Pit. :grin:

People who support Customs are either new to the game, or slackers. #shotsfired :joyful:
You main the best character in the game. It proves my point. Again everyone to the sentiment to those who supports customs shjould just be a big F.U.C.K YOU to the top tier mains, becayse they're the only ones ******** about them.
 

Atrabilious

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You main the best character in the game. It proves my point. Again everyone to the sentiment to those who supports customs shjould just be a big F.U.C.K YOU to the top tier mains, becayse they're the only ones ******** about them.
People who main top tier characters aren't exactly getting a raw deal by participating in a customs environment. Characters like Sheik and Rosaluma actually benefit from customs iirc, maintaining their top tier position and generally being better for it.

General opposition to customs from what I've seen stems from the perception of 'jank', i.e. what people view to be degenerate gameplay states caused by the use of a customs meta. 0% kills from windboxes, or infinites (Pikachu, lookin' at 'chu), excessive camping (customs villager), moves that kill at very low percents (skullbash, crescent slash at the edge, etc). Not to mention that despite the 'optimised' ways to obtain customs, it's still a pain in the ass to set yourself up with all of them.

There are legitimate concerns with what customs does to the game, and people are right to oppose them if they think they're too problematic to overcome. Trying to trivialise what they're saying by boiling it down to 'you don't want to lose top tier status, get bent' is one of the big reasons this debate is a mess.

I think, with Amazing Ampharos having already set up the groundwork for customs integration and regulation, that egregiously offensive/janky customs can be easily examined and removed from customs sets for a smoother tournament experience in a hypothetical customs meta. I'd like to go that route, since I'd love to see more characters become viable and start taking tournaments. It's just getting over that initial perception of customs being janky and showing that a little bit of dedication through the aforementioned project can make it all work out.

It'll just be interesting to see if EVO will start bigger arguments or just settle the dispute.
 

The Usurper

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
10
Location
The trunk of your car.
You main the best character in the game. It proves my point. Again everyone to the sentiment to those who supports customs shjould just be a big F.U.C.K YOU to the top tier mains, becayse they're the only ones ******** about them.
Yes, I main the best character in the game, but that's besides the point. Regardless of who you main, Customs are problematic. They mess up tiers, they make everything disorganized, and like people have said, they make certain characters overpowered. Haven't you seen My Smash Corner's videos about infinites? They all involve Custom moves. C. Falcon's down-B, Pika's neutral-B and side-B, etc.

Also, watch what you say. You may be censoring yourself, but still...
 

Qzzy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
208
Location
Hawthorne, CA
I wouldn't have minded customs, but the grind to unlock is impressively awful. Has anything changed since the game came out in terms of unlocking? I was willing to unlock stages and characters, but the customs aren't worth the time investment. I'm trying to play the game, not waste my life away.
 

DahremRuhar

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
594
Location
Syracuse, NY
You main the best character in the game. It proves my point. Again everyone to the sentiment to those who supports customs shjould just be a big F.U.C.K YOU to the top tier mains, becayse they're the only ones ******** about them.
1. You need to chill out with the censor dodges. Really not okay; if you are going to be profane, be creative about it.
2. I'm pro-customs but I'm gonna play devils advocate here, and ask why you don't main a top-tier? Like, if you need customs to be good, then you aren't actually good. A good chunk of people main lower-tier characters because they realize that they will never be relevant, but playing a garbage-tier character gives them access to character johns.

Character johns are some of the most inexcusable seeing as you have the choice to pick a top-tier.

Yes, I main the best character in the game, but that's besides the point. Regardless of who you main, Customs are problematic. They mess up tiers, they make everything disorganized, and like people have said, they make certain characters overpowered. Haven't you seen My Smash Corner's videos about infinites? They all involve Custom moves. C. Falcon's down-B, Pika's neutral-B and side-B, etc.

Also, watch what you say. You may be censoring yourself, but still...
1. Mess up tiers? Lolk because tiers aren't fairly fluid to begin with. Pls stahp.

2. Ya'll need to stop ******** about janky infinites that will never affect the metagame in any meaningful way.
 

The Usurper

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
10
Location
The trunk of your car.
2. I'm pro-customs but I'm gonna play devils advocate here, and ask why you don't main a top-tier? Like, if you need customs to be good, then you aren't actually good. A good chunk of people main lower-tier characters because they realize that they will never be relevant, but playing a garbage-tier character gives them access to character johns.

Character johns are some of the most inexcusable seeing as you have the choice to pick a top-tier.

1. Mess up tiers? Lolk because tiers aren't fairly fluid to begin with. Pls stahp.

2. Ya'll need to stop ******** about janky infinites that will never affect the metagame in any meaningful way.
1. I totally agree. Using Customs to make your non-high-tier character(s) better is just a cheap and subtle way to sneak johns in (character-related or otherwise). Just like you said, using Customs to be good is not actually being good.

2. Fair enough, tiers aren't that organized (then again, Event Hubs' tiers for Smash 4 are pretty good). Regardless, Customs would mess up the already fragile system. You have to deal with this Custom combination, and that combination...And then you have to put it all together into one picture. It just doesn't work.

3. They kinda do. :colorful:
 
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DahremRuhar

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
594
Location
Syracuse, NY
1. I totally agree. Using Customs to make your non-high-tier character(s) better is just a cheap and subtle way to sneak johns in (character-related or otherwise). Just like you said, using Customs to be good is not actually being good.
:colorful:
The flip-side is that if you are losing to a bad player because of their customs then you are bad as well.
 

DahremRuhar

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
594
Location
Syracuse, NY
No offense, but saying something this stupid kind of ruins he credibility of the rest of your argument, if it had any.
No offense but it doesn't lol. There is no commonly accepted tier list afaik, and even if the eventhubs tier lists were any ****tier than the others, his argument would still stand. He is completely correct in saying that customs make tier lists infinitely more complicated and harder to determine. The real argument is whether this is good for the metagame.

Anti-customs vs. Pro-customs is Stable (but potentially stale) Metagame vs. Extremely Dynamic (but possibly incomprehensibly complex) Metagame.

Excluding the arguably broken customs, this is what the debate boils down to.
 
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