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The Color of Magic -- Wandering Heroes Support Thread

Which do you like better?


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    11

Arcadenik

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"Wandering Heroes Venture Forth!" That's how I imagine their splash card would say. :awesome:





Wandering Heroes are probably some of the most recognized Nintendo characters since their game, Find Mii, is pre-installed in all 3DS units. Find Mii is a game that is available within the StreetPass Mii Plaza app. It even had a stage in Smash 3DS! In fact, I was inspired to support Wandering Heroes when that stage was revealed way back in December 2013.

Like how Duck Hunt represents NES Zapper games and Mr. Game & Watch represents Game & Watch games, Wandering Heroes could represent StreetPass Mii Plaza games through their special moves. Their 13 games are:

Find Mii I & II

Puzzle Swap

Mii Force

Monster Manor

Warrior's Way

Flower Town

Battleground Z

Ultimate Angler

Mii Trek

Feed Mii

Ninja Launcher

Market Crashers

Slot Car Rivals


There is more than plenty of material to come up with 12 sets of special moves! :idea:


You are probably wondering what "The Color of Magic" means. Well, this handy guide and this wiki explains all! Really... one of the reasons why I support Wandering Heroes is because the color of their shirts determines what kind of magic they use. Translating that concept to Smash and you get a new type of custom fighter. Imagine a custom fighter that get different special moves depending on what color their shirt is! I listed some examples below:

Red = fire
Orange = extra attacks, combos, lasers
Yellow = sand, wind, lightning
Light Green = sleep, plasma whips
Green = buffs, bouncing balls
Light Blue = ice
Blue = water, homing missiles
Pink = critical hits (sweet spots), sticky shots
Purple = poison, charge shots
Brown = summoning, spikes
White = light, buzzsaws
Black = dark, bombs

The second reason I support Wandering Heroes is because I love cute cats, dogs, and bunnies! As a custom fighter, you can make them either a cat, a dog, a bunny, or even human. Cats and dogs can be either brown or black. Bunnies can be either white or pink (like the Salesbunny). But that doesn't affect what kind of moves they get. Only the shirt color determines that.

As for their normal moves, they use swords and shields in the Find Mii games so obviously they would be sword fighters in Smash. But they can infuse their swords and shields with the color of magic. Fire swords! Ice swords! Poison swords! Swords with tippers! Swords shooting beams! Reflective shields! Absorbent shields! Explosive shields! Just throwing out some ideas.

But yeah, their normal moves stay the same regardless of shirt color but their properties probably are different. I know it sounds contradictory... I guess I meant something like how Marth and Lucina have the same moves but the properties of their moves are different, do you know what I mean?

The Final Smash could be your Wandering Hero teaming up with another Wandering Hero to do Combo Attack or Combo Magic on your opponents.



Oh yeah, you could also customize your animal Wandering Hero's gender to be either male or female... or customize their size to be either skinny, stocky, tall, or short. Your human Wandering Hero's gender and size would be determined by your own Mii. Gender doesn't affect gameplay but they determine whether the Wandering Hero is wearing a shirt or a dress. Size does affect their weight, speed, and strength just like it affects Mii Fighters.

List of Hired Old Allies

Arcadenik Arcadenik



Reserved for moveset ideas

Reserved for ideas for stages, Assist Trophies, items, and music.

Reserved for supporters and their contributions
 
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Arcadenik

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Reserved

EDIT by mod. Only need to reserve one post at the most
 
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Kirbeh

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I think it's an interesting idea to add as another custom fighter, but the color system seems like a lot more work than they'd realistically go for. Even if they've all got the same normals that's still 48 special moves they have to make across the 12 types. And on top of that you suggest having each type have different properties/stats on their normals.

This is less like another Mii class and more like a set of twelve semi-clones.

Assuming that in the next game they use a similar formula to the Mii classes as in Smash For, I think a more realistic approach would be to have one special for each color. Given that there's exactly twelve, that fills out the 3 options per special move.

As for the dogs, cats, and bunnies, while I like the idea, given the way Mii Fighters are handled, it'd probably be easier to just set them up like the others and have them as human. However, there could be special dog, cat and bunny masks as Mii Hats that fully cover their head and face and animate to look just they do in the StreetPass games. There could be one or two of each available from the start with perhaps a third and maybe fourth unlockable variant.
 

Arcadenik

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Masks? :glare: I want Wandering Heroes as playable characters, not Mii Fighter costumes. I don't want to take the easy way out. :ohwell:

Realistic approach? Okay but that's not how the color of magic works in Find Mii. Red Wandering Heroes cannot use blue magic, green magic, and yellow magic. Red Wandering Heroes use red magic and only red magic. That is what I have in mind. You have 12 different colors to choose from. Each color has their own set of special moves.

You are right. It's less of a Mii class and more like a set of 12 semi clones. That's the whole point of Wandering Heroes. They are not Mii Fighters with three different fighter archetypes to choose from. It is one new character who happens to have 12 sets of special moves to choose from. This is not a fourth Mii Fighter called Mii Mage. Wandering Heroes are more customizable than Mii Fighters are.

I want Red Wandering Heroes to play nothing like Blue Wandering Heroes despite sharing the same normal moves. I want all 12 Wandering Heroes to be different from each other. I want people to choose their favorite animals, and then choose their favorite colors or magic types, and then mix and match their favorite color-specific special moves and have fun. :grin:
 

Kirbeh

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Ah, my bad, I thought this was meant to be a special fourth class of Mii Fighter as opposed to a separate form of custom character altogether.

And I get how they work, I just think it'd likely be more work than they'd be willing to do. I just don't think we'd get both Mii Fighters and Wandering Heroes given how much time and care is needed is for both.

Again, I like the idea, but I don't see them dedicating that much time to create both on top of all the other work that goes into Smash already.

The only solution I can think of would be either outright replace the Mii Fighters with Wandering Heroes or to completely overhaul the custom character system and make a combination of the two, which would ultimately likely have to simplify them anyway and remove what makes the concept accurate to Street Pass.

And again just to clarify, I do like this idea, and I'd be all for it if possible, but from a development standpoint they'd have to allocate a lot of time into this idea. It's a lot of moves to create, properties to add, balancing to do for all 12, etc.

I'm curious as to what ideas you have to make them more customizable though, that could possibly resolve the issue if they were to replace the Mii Fighters. Or did you mean more varied due to the properties of their attacks?
 

Arcadenik

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History tells me that people are less likely to support a character if they think that character might replace a character who's already in the roster... so let's not deter people from supporting Wandering Heroes by suggesting that Wandering Heroes outright replace Mii Fighters. They can coexist as two distinct types of custom fighters.

When you create a Mii Fighter, you have a choice of Brawler, Swordfighter, or Gunner. Each fighter type has their own normal moves, their own set of special moves, and their own Final Smash.

When you create a Wandering Hero, you have a choice of Red, Orange, Yellow, Light Green, Green, Light Blue, Blue, Pink, Purple, Brown, White, or Black. Each color has their own set of special moves. That's it. They all share the same normal moves and Final Smash.

Mii Fighters are three different fighters and each fighter has their own set of special moves. Wandering Heroes are one fighter with 12 sets of special moves.

Yes, Wandering Heroes are conceptually similar to Mii Fighters but they are completely different. They are more like regular fighters like Mario but with more custom special moves to choose from. It's like as if each Mario recolor has their own set of special moves. That's what Wandering Heroes are. That's what sets them apart from the rest of the roster, including Mii Fighters.

I think that the workload might not be too much for the developers. I think it is like creating only one character and then creating 144 custom special moves for that one character. Some of the custom special moves could be borrowed from other veterans and newcomers... but only if it makes sense for specific colors.

For example, Red Wandering Heroes specialize in fire magic... so it would make sense to give them fire-related special moves like Charizard's Flamethrower (the fire comes from the sword, not the mouth), Fox's Fire Fox, Ness's PK Fire, and Roy's Flare Blade.

Light Blue Wandering Heroes specialize in ice magic... so it would make sense to give them ice-based special moves like Lucas's PK Freeze (the ice comes from the sword) and Ice Climbers' Blizzard... and the developers could borrow move ideas from other fighting games like Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat series... and copy abilities from Kirby games (Ice Kirby).

Some colors are a little abstract... for example, Orange Wandering Heroes specialize in magic that gives them extra attacks (combos). How do we translate that in Smash? Maybe they could get special moves like Shulk's Air Slash, Marth's Dancing Blade, and Meta Knight's Mach Tornado... you know, moves that hit again when you press the button again? Oh, and they also could borrow Fox's Blaster since orange mercenaries shoot Piercing Laser in Mii Force.
 

PsychoJosh

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Wandering Heroes are probably some of the most recognized Nintendo characters since their game, Find Mii, is pre-installed in all 3DS units.
Funny, I have zero idea who they are, and I'm sure many people are likewise in the same boat as me.

Having a thing pre-installed into your device doesn't mean that every single owner of that device will use it or even know that it's there. Generally people are only interested in the system for the actual games and don't dink around with pre-installed gimmick software like this that's only meant to be a tech demo for the hardware at launch.

Just because they're pre-installed into hardware that sells a lot doesn't mean they're well known. Some people like myself can go an entire console's life cycle without ever even touching the pre-installed things, or we might delete it just to free up space for actual games.
 
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Kirbeh

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I think PsychoJosh has a fair point in whether the Wandering Heroes are among Nintendo's most recognizable characters. That being said I'd wager StreetPass itself is at least well known enough. Even if only a half, third, or even just a fourth of 3DS owners played StreetPass games, that's still several million people.

I don't think they were discounting the character so much as pointing out it's a bit flawed to call them among Nintendo's most recognizable. As extensions of the Miis perhaps, but I'm not sure if they are on their own. At the same time, even if they aren't too well known or outright just unlikely, I see no issue in trying to support them. That goes for both the Wandering Heroes, his Stunt Race FX idea, and other character speculation in general.

Back on topic. I don't think they should replace the Mii Fighters, and I don't think they can't coexist. Like I said, I've no objections to the idea, I just have doubts as whether they'd be willing to develop more custom characters. Adding another Mii class is one thing, creating a separate type altogether is another.

I understood your idea for how they were supposed to work from the original post, I just mistakenly thought they were meant as an extension of the Mii Fighters.

It's definitely doable; having one moveset at least helps ease development there. The 48 specials wouldn't be to bad, depending on what they choose to make, and reusing assets as you suggested would help as well. Taking the time to balance them all out is what would likely take the most time, which is where I took most issue given you also had the idea of giving each color a different set of properties on their normals.

Dropping the properties as a natural element of their moveset would make the idea a lot more feasible. Plus you don't have to get rid of them entirely. Given the limited pool of spells the Wandering Heroes posses, some creative liberty will need to be used as you already pointed out. So borrowing some moves or making up new ones to represent their abilities would be necessary,

I think this is where you could include their ability to infuse their attacks with their particular element. One of the specials they might have is some sort of Enchantment. So Red could have Fire Enchantment which adds a temporary fire effect to their attacks for extra damage. Blue could have a Water Enchantment which splashes water from their attacks for increased range, etc, etc.
 
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Arcadenik

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I think this is where you could include their ability to infuse their attacks with their particular element. One of the specials they might have is some sort of Enchantment. So Red could have Fire Enchantment which adds a temporary fire effect to their attacks for extra damage. Blue could have a Water Enchantment which splashes water from their attacks for increased range, etc, etc.
What you just described is what I had in mind for the Green and Pink Wandering Heroes.

Green Wandering Heroes specialize in magic that levels up other Wandering Heroes. Pink Wandering Heroes specialize in magic that makes other Wandering Heroes more likely to land critical hits.

I was thinking that the green magic could be similar to Shulk's Monado Arts where the green magic temporarily buffs Green Wandering Heroes' stats.

As for the pink magic, the way I understand how critical hits work in Smash is that they involve sweet spots. I was thinking that maybe the pink magic could make Pink Wandering Heroes' hitboxes temporarily bigger so they are more likely to land critical hits.

Oh, and the yellow magic summons sandstorms which lower enemy and hero accuracy in Find Mii. Translating that to Smash... maybe it temporarily shrinks Yellow Wandering Heroes' hurtboxes so it's harder to hit them... and temporarily makes them stay intangible longer when dodging.

I played Breath of the Wild and I liked the elemental weapons. Maybe Red, Yellow, Light Blue, Blue, and Purple Wandering Heroes could have a special move that temporarily infuse their swords and shields with fire, lightning, ice, water, and poison, respectively.
 

Kirbeh

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What you just described is what I had in mind for the Green and Pink Wandering Heroes.

Green Wandering Heroes specialize in magic that levels up other Wandering Heroes. Pink Wandering Heroes specialize in magic that makes other Wandering Heroes more likely to land critical hits.

I was thinking that the green magic could be similar to Shulk's Monado Arts where the green magic temporarily buffs Green Wandering Heroes' stats.

As for the pink magic, the way I understand how critical hits work in Smash is that they involve sweet spots. I was thinking that maybe the pink magic could make Pink Wandering Heroes' hitboxes temporarily bigger so they are more likely to land critical hits.

Oh, and the yellow magic summons sandstorms which lower enemy and hero accuracy in Find Mii. Translating that to Smash... maybe it temporarily shrinks Yellow Wandering Heroes' hurtboxes so it's harder to hit them... and temporarily makes them stay intangible longer when dodging.

I played Breath of the Wild and I liked the elemental weapons. Maybe Red, Yellow, Light Blue, Blue, and Purple Wandering Heroes could have a special move that temporarily infuse their swords and shields with fire, lightning, ice, water, and poison, respectively.
Just for clarity, what'd you'd want for the Pink Heroes is a longer time window for the sweet spot, not necessarily larger hitboxes. So if an attack has a sweep spot you could increase the amount of frames that it lasts and increase the area of the hitbox that the sweet spot occupies to make it easier to land.

You could still have an effect that increases hitbox sizes though, that'd work as a buff to range. That could possibly work for most any color since it's not really something any of them use based on your chart.
 

Arcadenik

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Kirbeh Kirbeh I see the current topic at the Smash Switch thread is custom moves and how they need to be gone.

I was thinking... maybe custom moves should be gone. Let's simplify Wandering Heroes by giving them 12 sets of special moves without custom moves.
 

Kirbeh

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Kirbeh Kirbeh I see the current topic at the Smash Switch thread is custom moves and how they need to be gone.

I was thinking... maybe custom moves should be gone. Let's simplify Wandering Heroes by giving them 12 sets of special moves without custom moves.
Isn't that basically the same thing? Or did you intend for each Wandering Hero to have multiple sets on top of there already being 12 of them?

For your idea you said they'd all share the same normals, with the differences between each type being the special moves. The Wandering Heroes would essentially be a like Mii Fighter will 12 sets of custom moves, but without the ability to mix and match.

The problem with customs moves and by extension the idea of the Wandering Heroes has always been the sheer number of them.

While I think the main cast could benefit from the elimination of customs, I think it'd be a waste and more or less defeat the purpose of characters like the Miis and the Wandering Heroes idea since the entire point behind is to have them serve as customizable fighters.

However, I do think having only 12 sets (one for each) would be best. The customization of the Wandering Heroes should come more from the fact that you have 12 to choose from already. Trying to add custom moves for each type on top of that is one of the reasons why I was so critical of the idea in the first place. It'd be a lot more work than what's already been done with the Mii Fighters.
 
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