The Cerulean Cave: Mewtwo Stage Discussion

[DavemanCozy]

While you're discussing Lylat, you might as well discuss the matchup vs the shine monster over in the Fox boards:
http://smashboards.com/threads/all-...discussion-thread-mr-g-w-shulk-mewtwo.393061/

vs

We've started general discussion of the Mewtwo matchup, feel welcome to join and discuss

 

[Smashifer]

As meleebrawler said, Lylat's tilting can get in the way of Shadow Balls and mess up recovery, and I find the platforms iffy due to how weird their placement is, and again, coupled with the tilting is pretty bad with what little Mewtwo has already. Along with the pretty high ceiling makes it difficult to get kills off the top. I'd say Lylat is a no-no for Mewtwo.

As for Duck Hunt, I'd say it's 50-50, maybe a little less. Sure the ducks can get in the way most of the time but because of how close the left and right blast zones are, they can make for some back throw shenanigans. The ceiling is pretty true to what you see as far as I can tell, so killing off the top is okay-ish, although the lack of reliable platforms is kind of a turn-off.
I'd say Duck Hunt is even, although you have much better choices when it comes to picking your stage.

 

[Sonicninja115]

As meleebrawler said, Lylat's tilting can get in the way of Shadow Balls and mess up recovery, and I find the platforms iffy due to how weird their placement is, and again, coupled with the tilting is pretty bad with what little Mewtwo has already. Along with the pretty high ceiling makes it difficult to get kills off the top. I'd say Lylat is a no-no for Mewtwo.

As for Duck Hunt, I'd say it's 50-50, maybe a little less. Sure the ducks can get in the way most of the time but because of how close the left and right blast zones are, they can make for some back throw shenanigans. The ceiling is pretty true to what you see as far as I can tell, so killing off the top is okay-ish, although the lack of reliable platforms is kind of a turn-off.
I'd say Duck Hunt is even, although you have much better choices when it comes to picking your stage.

Didn't someone prove that the sides aren't as close as people think?

 

[Smashifer]

Didn't someone prove that the sides aren't as close as people think?

I dunno, did they? All I know is that it's pretty useful as I've gotten many back throw kills with it. I think it was around the 90% mark, but I can't remember if I had rage or not.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Well, at least Mewtwo doesn't get screwed (not more than most anyway) if he picks the wrong stage.

What do you mean by this?
(I think it would be a good discussion to have, especially in this thread)

 

[meleebrawler]

What do you mean by this?
(I think it would be a good discussion to have, especially in this thread)

Well, it's just that NOBODY gets screwed harder by Little Mac by certain stages. He does fine on Battlefield and FD, but Smashville or Duck Hunt? Yeah, good luck.

Some stages may be less favorable to Mewtwo depending on his opponent (like say Sheik on Smashville, or Ryu on Halberd), but nothing insurmountable.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Well, it's just that NOBODY gets screwed harder by Little Mac by certain stages. He does fine on Battlefield and FD, but Smashville or Duck Hunt? Yeah, good luck.

Some stages may be less favorable to Mewtwo depending on his opponent (like say Sheik on Smashville, or Ryu on Halberd), but nothing insurmountable.

So your saying that you can't counter pick stages against Mewtwo anymore, you can only counter pick depending on the Stage MU?

 

[meleebrawler]

So your saying that you can't counter pick stages against Mewtwo anymore, you can only counter pick depending on the Stage MU?

I mean Mewtwo isn't really more disadvantaged vs. Sheik on Smashville than other characters basically.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I mean Mewtwo isn't really more disadvantaged vs. Sheik on Smashville than other characters basically.

I agree. With Shiek, you just learn the MU, get a advantageous stage, and pray.

I think the best stage Mewtwo vs. Shiek is Dreamland.

Should I update the OP saying to discuss Mewtwo vs. Character stage MU's?

 

[meleebrawler]

I agree. With Shiek, you just learn the MU, get a advantageous stage, and pray.

I think the best stage Mewtwo vs. Shiek is Dreamland.

Should I update the OP saying to discuss Mewtwo vs. Character stage MU's?

I agree, the stage you choose as Mewtwo has more to do with your opponent than Mewtwo.

I mean, it's pretty clear Battlefield is Mewtwo's best stage in a vacuum, but it's very risky to take Mario there.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I agree, the stage you choose as Mewtwo has more to do with your opponent than Mewtwo.

I mean, it's pretty clear Battlefield is Mewtwo's best stage in a vacuum, but it's very risky to take Mario there.

Agreed.

Is there any gimmicks Mewtwo can take advantage of stage wise?

 

[meleebrawler]

Agreed.

Is there any gimmicks Mewtwo can take advantage of stage wise?

Again, most of them are on Battlefield: teleport cancelling, confusion sometimes plants opponent on platform as does dthrow, nair locks etc. Mewtwo just really likes low platforms

Lylat Cruise has the easier lagless ledge getup.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Again, most of them are on Battlefield: teleport cancelling, confusion sometimes plants opponent on platform as does dthrow, nair locks etc. Mewtwo just really likes low platforms

Lylat Cruise has the easier lagless ledge getup.

Did we ever look into SH confusion? I can't remember, but it seems like it would force them onto the PF.

 

[Zarxrax]

I think the flat stages like FD and Duck hunt can benefit Mewtwo in some ways that haven't been discussed. While it's true that they leave less landing options for mewtwo, they also leave less landing options for the opponent. Mewtwos full charge shadow ball is one of the best moves in the game for shutting down an on-stage landing, so I think this gives us a good advantage there.

I also dislike dreamland, because most of the hits on mewtwo's upsmash will miss an opponent on the platforms. I think that attack is useful enough that I would rather go to battlefield with the higher ceilings than to not have access to this option.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I think the flat stages like FD and Duck hunt can benefit Mewtwo in some ways that haven't been discussed. While it's true that they leave less landing options for mewtwo, they also leave less landing options for the opponent. Mewtwos full charge shadow ball is probably the best move in the game for shutting down an on-stage landing, so I think this gives us a good advantage there.

I also dislike dreamland, because most of the hits on mewtwo's upsmash will miss an opponent on the platforms. I think that attack is useful enough that I would rather go to battlefield with the higher ceilings than to not have access to this option.

DL also allows earlier kills though. If you catch an opponent with Uair or Uthrow off a platform it will kill ridiculously early. Plus, Uthrow platform locks on the top platform 0-2%, so this the best stage (kappa, but the lock is true.) Duck hunt can be annoying for Mewtwo. You really have to be careful of the ducks. Other then that, edgeguarding is really nice on that stage.

FD has it's uses, but is a bit outclassed by BF and T&C.

Keep this thread going! Keep on posting! I will usually reply more in depth BTW.

 

[Chiroz]

Did we ever look into SH confusion? I can't remember, but it seems like it would force them onto the PF.

Confusion makes you jump higher which doesn't allow you to go lower than a certain distance (vertically speaking). Falling Confusion after having already used Confusion in the air can put your opponent on the platform though, but you would need to learn the exact height at which you activate it.


In general I think T&C and DreamLand are our best stages, but as has been said before in this thread: It is more important to CP against your opponent, specially with a char that basically does well on all stages.