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The Burning Digimon Dinosaur - Agumon for Smash - Digimon Survive 2020

verysleepywolf

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Season 1 of Digimon has some powerful nostalgia for me. I felt Digimon had the best anime out of the monster themed IPs, while I revered Pokemon for its video games and Yugi-oh for the actual card game. One thing I become concerned about is the fact Agumon doesn't originate from an actual video game, which is something Sakurai has addressed. And while he has contradicted himself in many instances, I have a feeling he might consider that rule some kind of special, unbreakable one. I don't really have an argument there, it's just a gut feeling.

I might be wrong, and it could be entirely flipped around; Sakurai could possibly consider virtual pets as a form of video games worth representing in SSB, in which case Agumon would be a natural choice.

But I don't personally think Agumon will happen.
 

ErenJager

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Season 1 of Digimon has some powerful nostalgia for me. I felt Digimon had the best anime out of the monster themed IPs, while I revered Pokemon for its video games and Yugi-oh for the actual card game. One thing I become concerned about is the fact Agumon doesn't originate from an actual video game, which is something Sakurai has addressed. And while he has contradicted himself in many instances, I have a feeling he might consider that rule some kind of special, unbreakable one. I don't really have an argument there, it's just a gut feeling.

I might be wrong, and it could be entirely flipped around; Sakurai could possibly consider virtual pets as a form of video games worth representing in SSB, in which case Agumon would be a natural choice.

But I don't personally think Agumon will happen.
If Tamagotchi's and vpets aren't considered video games, then I guess Mr. Game & Watches hand helds aren't video games either. You control a digital image on a hand held console, it's a video game.

Sakurai's opinion on the matter is a whole different story, I'd have to be the man or know him to tell you what he thinks.

Most of us don't think Agumon is likely to happen, but we still support and hope the character will be included.
If you only support the likely characters, smash speculation gets boring, sometimes you gotta vouch for the underdog and hope your dreams come true.
 
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verysleepywolf

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Hey dude, I'll repeat myself. I love Digimon and would also love to see a Digimon in SSB. I also feel that I can't want 20+ characters that are specific to my interests because I'll definitely be disappointed. If it wasn't clear that I did want Agumon, let me remind you that I religiously watched season 1 of Digimon when I was little and even revisited it when I was older to find that it holds up really well as a character-centric story, despite the marketability being a focus point. I never owned a Digimon virtual pet, and I also played very few of the games. Digimon Rumble Arena is probably the one I enjoyed most and that game shows Agumon definitely has potential. I would personally prefer Gabumon, but Agumon seems more iconic and he would be a great choice to represent virtual pets. I'll add that, personally, I feel Digimon vs Pokemon would be culturally powerful enough to warrant his inclusion.

If Tamagotchi's and vpets aren't considered video games, then I guess Mr. Game & Watches hand helds aren't video games either. You control a digital image on a hand held console, it's a video game.
I'm not as sure about that as you are. I personally wouldn't consider virtual pets video games, more like a digital toy, but video games themselves are also digital toys, so... slartibartfast. I took both perspectives in my post because we don't know what Sakurai would think. Is that where your beef is? Or maybe it was more of a fried drumstick (still delicious for trolls), but it certainly comes across to me as "nyeh, our venn diagram of opinions only aligns at 80% must argue!!" I'm being genuine here, the hostility from you is kind of interesting. Also, I can't buy into the G&W comparison because the circumstances under which he was included are severely different compared to something from a non-Nintendo IP, but that is a good point strictly in terms of what makes a video game a video game. That could also mean that G&W fills the role Agumon would as a rep for LED handhelds, also making it a somewhat damning comparison. Honestly I don't know what stance to take and clearly you do, so wield boldly and take no prisoners lest ye face death by opinion.

Sakurai's opinion on the matter is a whole different story, I'd have to be the man or know him to tell you what he thinks.
Oh? I retract my request for apprenticeship. I expect a refund for the gerbil I sacrificed immediately.

Most of us don't think Agumon is likely to happen, but we still support and hope the character will be included. If you only support the likely characters, smash speculation gets boring, sometimes you gotta vouch for the underdog and hope your dreams come true.
How exactly do you support a character? I cannot deal with this farce, you have 22 characters in your signature and not a single one of them is Agumon. You really don't support Agumon as much as you say you do, so it seems like we are mostly in the same area. We understand he has slim-to-none chances? We still want him in, but only casually so? If you think this post is overkill it's because you're a hot little ball of soulful dreams and you severely misallocate your aggression towards me. Next time I'll just say "I love _____ and I support _____ for SSB!" if that's how I avoid this in the future. High five, bud.
 

ryuu seika

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ErenJager ErenJager has been rather blunt in stating his opinions, verysleepywolf verysleepywolf , but I don't sense hostility from him like I now do from you. Please let's not respond to percieved hostility with the blatant unmistakable sort. That only serves to escalate the situation, regardless of whether there even was one before.

Digimon Rumble Arena is probably the one I enjoyed most and that game shows Agumon definitely has potential. I would personally prefer Gabumon, but Agumon seems more iconic and he would be a great choice to represent virtual pets. I'll add that, personally, I feel Digimon vs Pokemon would be culturally powerful enough to warrant his inclusion.
This seems to be the driving force of this thread. A bunch of people who all love the Digimon anime and recognise that Agumon both has and has demonstrated great potential, yet who only really "support" him for Smash because other candidates from the series seem impossible.

Also, I can't buy into the G&W comparison because the circumstances under which he was included are severely different compared to something from a non-Nintendo IP, but that is a good point strictly in terms of what makes a video game a video game. That could also mean that G&W fills the role Agumon would as a rep for LED handhelds, also making it a somewhat damning comparison.
A low tech, LED-based handheld is as similar to a virtual pet as say, Final Fantasy is to Doki Doki Literature club. Both use the same fundamental "technology" of only ever clicking through menus but they come to a very different end result.

I'm not going to argue that Agumon doesn't blur the lines on what constitutes originating in a game or that him being 3rd party doesn't potentially alter Sakurai's willingness to wander through that fog. I am simply posing a counter argument to Agumon and Game and Watch fulfilling the same purpose.



How exactly do you support a character? ...
Actively state any degree of interest therein, a la what you have already done, apparently.
 

ErenJager

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Hey dude, I'll repeat myself. I love Digimon and would also love to see a Digimon in SSB. I also feel that I can't want 20+ characters that are specific to my interests because I'll definitely be disappointed. If it wasn't clear that I did want Agumon, let me remind you that I religiously watched season 1 of Digimon when I was little and even revisited it when I was older to find that it holds up really well as a character-centric story, despite the marketability being a focus point. I never owned a Digimon virtual pet, and I also played very few of the games. Digimon Rumble Arena is probably the one I enjoyed most and that game shows Agumon definitely has potential. I would personally prefer Gabumon, but Agumon seems more iconic and he would be a great choice to represent virtual pets. I'll add that, personally, I feel Digimon vs Pokemon would be culturally powerful enough to warrant his inclusion.



I'm not as sure about that as you are. I personally wouldn't consider virtual pets video games, more like a digital toy, but video games themselves are also digital toys, so... slartibartfast. I took both perspectives in my post because we don't know what Sakurai would think. Is that where your beef is? Or maybe it was more of a fried drumstick (still delicious for trolls), but it certainly comes across to me as "nyeh, our venn diagram of opinions only aligns at 80% must argue!!" I'm being genuine here, the hostility from you is kind of interesting. Also, I can't buy into the G&W comparison because the circumstances under which he was included are severely different compared to something from a non-Nintendo IP, but that is a good point strictly in terms of what makes a video game a video game. That could also mean that G&W fills the role Agumon would as a rep for LED handhelds, also making it a somewhat damning comparison. Honestly I don't know what stance to take and clearly you do, so wield boldly and take no prisoners lest ye face death by opinion.



Oh? I retract my request for apprenticeship. I expect a refund for the gerbil I sacrificed immediately.



How exactly do you support a character? I cannot deal with this farce, you have 22 characters in your signature and not a single one of them is Agumon. You really don't support Agumon as much as you say you do, so it seems like we are mostly in the same area. We understand he has slim-to-none chances? We still want him in, but only casually so? If you think this post is overkill it's because you're a hot little ball of soulful dreams and you severely misallocate your aggression towards me. Next time I'll just say "I love _____ and I support _____ for SSB!" if that's how I avoid this in the future. High five, bud.
what
 

verysleepywolf

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ryuu seika ryuu seika I appreciate your approach and respectful attitude. I also have a strong response to being belittled.

I'm not completely certain of Sakurai's actions, even though he's been firm about things in the past. Plenty of those things have changed as well. We may believe that virtual pets are a valid form of video game, the best example acknowledging this from Nintendo being Nintendogs, although this was released on a platform that featured other video games. Virtual pets back then were their own designated device, kind of like the handheld Yahtzees that were popular with their respective generation, or a digital watch, or a digital alarm clock... the line is blurred and people could easily dismiss it in the same way one would dismiss mobile games for just being phone games. Sakurai does have a deep understanding of video games and it's possible that he would see old-school virtual pets as a form of video game that SSB has not yet represented and is worth representing, in which case Agumon's time would certainly come. Or maybe Nintendogs is enough virtual pet rep for Sakurai to feel it's not even necessary. Again, I'm not really going in a straight line here, I'm not sure what to think.

What I am personally afraid of is the prospect of non-video game characters getting into SSB, and I think Sakurai wants to make sure that doesn't happen. This is just a feeling that I think I agree with him on. The question for me is if Sakurai possibly sees Digimon as an infringement of that.

What we have to go off of with understanding Sakurai is interviews and past decisions in games. However, these aren't even reliable because of how often he changes his mind. It's pretty well acknowledged and not necessary to point out, especially with sarcasm. What isn't as widely acknowledged is how that fact also undermines the value of argument in the first place, meaning facts can remain facts while what actually happens is going to be largely unpredictable save for safe marketable guesses like an ARMS rep. So I'm not willing to say things with certainty. Being scathed for it seems silly.
 

Graizen

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A question for all of you:

Even if a character did not start out as a character in a game, but then if most of the media involving that character are Video Games, would that make this character worth entering Smash Bros?

Example: A character is born as the main character of an Anime, but for the rest of his existence he appears only in Video Games.
 
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ErenJager

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A question for all of you:

Even if a character did not start out as a character in a game, but then if most of the media involving that character are Video Games, would that make this character worth entering Smash Bros?

Example: A character is born as the main character of an Anime, but for the rest of his existence he appears only in Video Games.
Hm, well Lucario debuted in the anime first, and ROB was a piece of hardware long before he actually appeared in any video game. Those are both owned by Nintendo though. I don't know if the same applies to properties not owned by Nintendo.
:185:
 
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Sailor Waddle Dee

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A question for all of you:

Even if a character did not start out as a character in a game, but then if most of the media involving that character are Video Games, would that make this character worth entering Smash Bros?

Example: A character is born as the main character of an Anime, but for the rest of his existence he appears only in Video Games.
My criteria would be originate in a video game.
so if Vpets count, Agumon counts.

so using something like .hack as an example, Tsukasa is the main character of the original .hack anime (.hack// SIIGN) they are an anime character. even though they later appeared in .hack IMOQ, LINK and Verus. all games.
conversely Kite originated in a .hack video game. so he is a video game character, despite later having some anime appearances.
.hack isn't really the best franchise to use for this example though since as a multimedia franchise it doesn't really count as strictly video game or strictly anime/ manga/ novel/ card game/ radio drama/ whatever else it's been.

or i wouldn't want a net navi or robot master exclusive to a megaman cartoon/ anime appearing in the game.

or back into the realm of digimon, obscure digimon that only appeared in the manga or something like Petit Mammon or Regulumon wouldn't work. but Agumon who debuted in the vpets would.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Digimon really needs to release a good game, and not a "good for a digimon game" game.
 

fogbadge

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Graizen

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Digimon really needs to release a good game, and not a "good for a digimon game" game.

And I'm with you in that.
Bandai Namco has the ability to make huge games with multiple franchises, but when it comes to Digimon it seems like they always hold on.
They should make a Digimon game similar to Monster Hunter World, Final Fantasy 15 or Zelda BoW.
Digimon has all the capacity for something like that.
 

Graizen

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I stayed a little away from the topic, forgive me!
I have a Digimon Channel on Youtube and I've been working on it, besides having tests at the College!

I've been thinking about character disclosure and the support we give them. Are we really going to help these characters get to the game?

I believe this can all help in future DLCs for example.
 

ryuu seika

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What happened to the previous suggestion of a fight ontop of Apocalymon? That, with a swirling digital void in the background, would be an awesome fight location with BIG series relevance in a way that Danger Gultch and, so far as I know, Nakano Broadway just aren't.

File Island could work, IMO, but only if it's zoomed out like in Adventure's OP so that we can see it awash a digital sea or atop the wireframe earth we see in Frontier. It's an iconic franchise locale, for sure, but it's not a visually distinctive one on its own. Nothing about it screams Digimon when you just look at a part of it.

I'm sure we've talked about that second one before but it has potential. It's not anything too iconic but it's instantly recognisable as being inside a low tech computer. And that neon green on black is highly reminiscent of an early LCD display like on a Gameboy or certain V-Pets. If they could find a way to make the stage dynamic enough, it could certainly work for Digimon.

But also, what about Primary Village? It's a calm, childish place home to a highly memorable fightscene with no distinctive landmarks but soft, matress-like, bouncy terrain to make its physics interesting and a huge array of cameos possible in the background. Think Smash Bros on a bouncy castle with the baby forms of all your favourites popping by.
 

ErenJager

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So... like Pokemon Trainer is back...

Which is essentially a transformation character....

Agumon Digivolution mechanic now feasibly more possible?
 

KMDP

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Yeah, you can count me among the supporters of Agumon.

So... like Pokemon Trainer is back...

Which is essentially a transformation character....

Agumon Digivolution mechanic now feasibly more possible?
I thought about this, and... well, having Agumon, Greymon, maybe MetalGreymon and WarGreymon and possibly even Omnimon, all in one character, is probably a little labour intensive for this particular iteration of Smash Bros.
 
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timrtabor123

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Kinda surprised this particular character doesn't have more support considering so much of Smash is about dream match ups like Pokemon vs Digimon.
 

ErenJager

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Yeah, you can count me among the supporters of Agumon.



I thought about this, and... well, having Agumon, Greymon, maybe MetalGreymon and WarGreymon and possibly even Omnimon, all in one character, is probably a little labour intensive for this particular iteration of Smash Bros.
Well... i wasn't suggesting that many transformations... and I'm not a fan of the anime original forms... so basically anything beyond Metalgreymon.
 

KMDP

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Well... i wasn't suggesting that many transformations... and I'm not a fan of the anime original forms... so basically anything beyond Metalgreymon.
I'm fairly sure that WarGreymon and Omegamon are actually V-Pet originals, I believe they were introduced in the Pendulum series?

The gimmick was that WarGreymon and MetalGarurumon were fairly lackluster Ultimates (Megas) by themselves, but could fuse into Omegamon (who was, naturally, REALLY powerful).

It was Digimon Adventure that gave them buffs (and made Omegamon even more powerful as a result).
 

SEGAGameBoy

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Never played Digimon before. I support! But, I do have 1 question: Is it a clone of Pokemon?
 

KMDP

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Never played Digimon before. I support! But, I do have 1 question: Is it a clone of Pokemon?
Digimon is not a clone of Pokémon. They have similarities, but only insofar as they are both franchises with monsters that evolve into stronger forms with "mon" in the title.

Digimon is a spinoff of Tamagotchi marketed for a male audience.

In the actual respective animes/games, the relationship between a Pokémon Trainer and his captured Pokémon and a Digimon Tamer and his Partner Digimon are different. In short, a Pokémon is ultimately an animal; while a Digimon is a sapient creature usually (but not always) able to speak Human Languages. Team Rocket's Meowth (and telepathic Pokémon like Mewtwo and Lucario) are the exception, in Digimon they are usually the rule.

As the team of Death Battle put it: Agumon is Tai's friend, while a Pokémon is a pet. (Taichi being the first anime's main protagonist).

The closest thing would be the relationship between Ash and Pikachu, if Pikachu was able to speak English (Japanese) and was Ash's ONLY Pokémon.

In some Digimon games (like the recent Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth games), it's more like Pokémon (where you're able to collect more than one Digimon), but even then, the Digimon are shown to be able to speak human languages.

This is nitpicking, but, Pokémon are theorized in-series to come from Space; Digimon are from a parallel dimension (usually borne from the existence of computers and the internet). The first series of Digimon is about a group of kids being trapped in that parallel dimension.

Digimon tends to tackle darker themes than Pokémon (not that Pokémon doesn't do so, examples being Mewtwo's existential crisis in the Japanese version of the first movie, Ghetsis and Lusamine's implied abuse of their children, etc). For example: In Pokémon: The First Movie, Ash is killed by Mewtwo and Mew, and quickly comes back. In Digimon Tamers (Season 3), a main character's partner Digimon is killed, permanently, and never comes back. The character in question has a mental breakdown (sort of) and the Digimon's killer (another Digimon) eventually realises the error of his ways and tries to make amends.

This isn't to say Digimon doesn't have all the silly trappings of your general shonen anime (Season 1 and the V-Pets have way more toilet humour than Pokémon has ever had).

Sorry in advance about the wall of text. XD
 
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Graizen

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Sometimes it is very difficult to maintain the confidence that your character will one day get to the game.
Even if it was like an AT, I'd be pretty happy.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Honestly, I'd be more hype for a Digimon as a Bandai Namco Rep than anyone from Tekken.

I know it's not this way in Japan, but here in the west there was a Mario/Sonic rivalry between the series that was something fierce!
 

KMDP

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Honestly, I'd be more hype for a Digimon as a Bandai Namco Rep than anyone from Tekken.
Here, here!

I know it's not this way in Japan, but here in the west there was a Mario/Sonic rivalry between the series that was something fierce!
A rivalry between those that only watched Pokémon, and thought that Digimon was just a rip-off. And those who knew better.
 
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Graizen

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And for me it's very funny that people have a preference for other Namco Bandai characters.

1 - Heihachi who is literally another character of fighting games. It's literally a less interesting version of Ryu.
2 - Klonoa is a mascot Namco practically ignores to put the Pac-Man in place always.
3 - Lloyd Irving who is a main character in the Tales series, which would be interesting if he was not practically a protagonist of Fire Emblem.

And among all the options we have Digimon, which is a series known worldwide, a huge franchise that exists for more than twenty years, which directly rivals Pokémon in many different ways.

I can not believe that more people are not giving the value that Agumon should have in this case.
It turns out to be the obvious choice of Namco Bandai's second rep!
Pac-Man representing Namco and Agumon representing Bandai.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Here, here!



A rivalry between those that only watched Pokémon, and thought that Digimon was just a rip-off. And those who knew better.
Or those of us that sunk too much into Pokemon cards to switch, bore resentment as friends moved on, grew up, learned to appreciate both series for what they were and would like to see a friendly duke out for old time's sake and not whatever gore fest Screw Attack has planned.
 

KMDP

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One barrier for entry for Agumon, I think, is that, should he get a stage, the most iconic Digimon music is from Digimon's anime series. Not saying it can't happen, but it would be unprecedented. (Man, that's a lot of commas in the first half of that sentence).

And for me it's very funny that people have a preference for other Namco Bandai characters.

1 - Heihachi who is literally another character of fighting games. It's literally a less interesting version of Ryu.
2 - Klonoa is a mascot Namco practically ignores to put the Pac-Man in place always.
3 - Lloyd Irving who is a main character in the Tales series, which would be interesting if he was not practically a protagonist of Fire Emblem.


And among all the options we have Digimon, which is a series known worldwide, a huge franchise that exists for more than twenty years, which directly rivals Pokémon in many different ways.

I can not believe that more people are not giving the value that Agumon should have in this case.
It turns out to be the obvious choice of Namco Bandai's second rep!
Pac-Man representing Namco and Agumon representing Bandai.
I have literally never played Tekken (I think, my uncle owned it and I MIGHT have played it then), Klonoa or a Tales game. And besides PAC-MAN, those games and Digimon, I have a hard time thinking about any other Bandai-Namco series other than their licensed anime games (and we all know what the reception to Goku is).

Or those of us that sunk too much into Pokemon cards to switch, bore resentment as friends moved on, grew up, learned to appreciate both series for what they were and would like to see a friendly duke out for old time's sake and not whatever gore fest Screw Attack has planned.
Yeah, one thing I don't like about Death Battle is how gory it is. I mean, is Ace's face getting melted by Natsu (among other really gross things) really necessary?
 

Graizen

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One barrier for entry for Agumon, I think, is that, should he get a stage, the most iconic Digimon music is from Digimon's anime series. Not saying it can't happen, but it would be unprecedented. (Man, that's a lot of commas in the first half of that sentence).


I have literally never played Tekken (I think, my uncle owned it and I MIGHT have played it then), Klonoa or a Tales game. And besides PAC-MAN, those games and Digimon, I have a hard time thinking about any other Bandai-Namco series other than their licensed anime games (and we all know what the reception to Goku is).
Digimon World of PS1 is an extremely iconic and legendary game in the minds of many people. You can check this out in people's reaction to recently released Digimon World games such as Digimon Next Order for PS4.

And even if you have not played, a lot of these are wonderful games, I just do not think they deserve to represent Bandai on the same level as Digimon should.
 

KMDP

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Digimon World of PS1 is an extremely iconic and legendary game in the minds of many people. You can check this out in people's reaction to recently released Digimon World games such as Digimon Next Order for PS4.

And even if you have not played, a lot of these are wonderful games, I just do not think they deserve to represent Bandai on the same level as Digimon should.
Believe me, I played Next 0rder (gotta format it right~) and loved it (even if it took me a little bit to get used to). I didn't play the original World series (though I wanted to).
I love "Accentier" (though what an "Accentier" even is, I have no idea), it would be a great song for Agumon if he gets chosen (along with Brave Heart and Believer).

I will admit I liked Cyber Sleuth (and Hacker's Memory) a little more. But that's probably got something to do with it being something I'm more used to.

Hey dude, it's alright! LOL You can get as specific as you want!
Heh, I was going to go into even more detail (like how the aftereffects of a divorce effect one of the characters and his relationship with his little brother in Season 1, or how the main character of Season 1, Tai, comes to realize how all the collateral damage the Digimon cause when they fight effects the general populace in Digimon Adventure Tri, the most recent 'season').

Tri is meant for more mature audiences though, like Pokémon Generations was. So it probably doesn't count.
 
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Graizen

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Believe me, I played Next 0rder (gotta format it right~) and loved it (even if it took me a little bit to get used to). I didn't play the original World series (though I wanted to).
I love "Accentier" (though what an "Accentier" even is, I have no idea), it would be a great song for Agumon if he gets chosen (along with Brave Heart and Believer).

I will admit I liked Cyber Sleuth (and Hacker's Memory) a little more. But that's probably got something to do with it being something I'm more used to.
So here's my recommendation for you!
Play the first three Digimon World for Playstation, you will fall in love!
They are wonderful games that will show you a lot of special things that Digimon has to offer!
 

KMDP

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So here's my recommendation for you!
Play the first three Digimon World for Playstation, you will fall in love!
They are wonderful games that will show you a lot of special things that Digimon has to offer!
Maybe one day! (I don't have the kind of money I would need to get a hold of them). Besides, I'm aware of lots of things Digimon has to offer!
 

dangeraaron10

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Ohio
You know I still support Agumon.

Agumon, especially if he can digivolve into Greymon and back, is the only character(s) that can budge me from Charizard. I'd main Agumon in a heartbeat, especially if he comes in a package deal with Greymon (and to a much lesser extent, Wargreymon).

My ideal character would be a transforming Agumon - Greymon who's Final Smash would change based on which Digimon you were using. Using Final Smash as Agumon digivolves you into Wargreymon (and clear the screen with Terra Force), and as Greymon it would digivolve you into MetalGreymon (who would target opponents with Giga Blaster).

I imagine Agumon would fight similar to Mario and Greymon similar to Bowser.

I'm not greedy, though. I'll gladly just take Agumon standalone and have his Final Smash digivolve into anything from his line.
 
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