The Bringer of Sin & Punishment: Saki Amamiya for Smash Switch (Happy 19th Anniversary to the Sin & Punishment Franchise)

[shinhed-echi]

Yeah, good idea. At least it's assuring to know that Nintendo still owns the rights to the Sin & Punishment universe and can do anything they want with them without Treasure's help. Nothing came out it for several years due to the dormancy of the IP.

There was one obviously fake E3 leak that featured a Sin & Punishment 3 (which we've talked about around the time). So it could be Retro that can revive the IP or even Sakurai himself (assuming that he's a big fan of Sin & Punishment). I'm honestly open for anyone reviving the IP at this point, even if Saki snit the main character. At least that would help his chances as a Smash fighter.

I don't know why S&P2 became so overlooked.. I imagine it had to be because the Wii was plagued with rail shooters, so when a REALLY good one comes along, it's just not special anymore.

But hopefully, if they make a 3rd for the Switch, it'll get the recognition it deserves. I really enjoyed the first two, and TLS really improved a whole lot. I wish the first had those improvements, though. I kind of like Saki over Isa. Although I love Airan Jo over them both. But for Smash, I go Saki all the way for the S&P character.

 

[Altais]

I had no idea Treasure went out of business. Shame; I thoroughly enjoyed their unique shooters, namely S&P and Ikaruga.

As much as I would like to see Saki in Smash, at this rate the only way I see that happening is if Nintendo makes a new Sin & Punishment game, hopefully with a better-written story than Successor of the Skies. It was never clear what happened to Saki or Airan before the events of the second game, so a prequel of sorts focusing on that timeline would be nice.

Overall, Sin & Punishment is a very unique series, game-play wise. That said, I'd say it's more than worthy of a revival.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Woah! Treasure went out of business?? When?

Damn. I loved their games. Specifically the Sin & Punishment games and Wario World. They were a big part of my life.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Woah! Treasure went out of business?? When?

Damn. I loved their games. Specifically the Sin & Punishment games and Wario World. They were a big part of my life.

I had no idea Treasure went out of business. Shame; I thoroughly enjoyed their unique shooters, namely S&P and Ikaruga.

Here's your proof. And given there have been no news of new projects from them, it's safe to say Treasure is done for. Quite the same since they've made a lot of great games in the past and modern times, like Star Successor.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1199013

 

[Megadoomer]

That's a shame; I'm a big fan of Wario World, Gunstar Heroes, and the Sin & Punishment games, though from the looks of it, they were a pretty small studio, so I'm hoping they survive in some form.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

So who's ready to see Saki come back as an Assist Trophy?

Jokes aide, he's definitely in a bad position with the series dead and Treasure who's just as dead. But who knows, there could be a shimmer of hope.

 

[SSBCandidates]

Add me as a Saki supporter.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Add me as a Saki supporter.

And welcome aboard.

Things are looking bleak for Saki as of now, though part of me is still holding on hope that he may get a shot.

 

[smashkirby]

Still holding out hope for Saki!

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I know that most of you are still down about Saki and his chances, but if it makes you feel any better we can talk about the great parts of Sin & Punishment in my new server. It's not just for Saki support, but for the support of many other Smash underdogs that would need a miracle to make it this time.

Feel free to stop by.

https://discord.gg/R2ZeTqW

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

In a perfect world, Treasure had never fell as hard as they did.

Not sure if Nintendo themselves would want to make a new Sin & Punishment game themselves.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Whoa, what the hey happened to Treasure? I mean, given their recent output, at best they held the same status as Quintet, but still...

Sakurai, it’s up to you to revive these games!

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Whoa, what the hey happened to Treasure? I mean, given their recent output, at best they held the same status as Quintet, but still...

Sakurai, it’s up to you to revive these games!

This is the best way it describe it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1199013

Even they've poured a lot of money into toys, an anime, and cross promotional deals for both Gaist Crusher games to flop, they probably aren't in a stable enough condition to make more games. They've been rather silent since 2014. So it's safe to say they aren't coming back when it's been 4 years since they've made a new game.

That being said, I wouldn't mind if Sakurai were the one to revive the series himself. When he is done with Smash first.

 

[FunAtParties]

If you had to choose 2 current movesets to put together and make Saki who would you choose? I got ZSS and Mii Swordfighter

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

If you had to choose 2 current movesets to put together and make Saki who would you choose? I got ZSS and Mii Swordfighter

I would take those two most likely since I doubt any other moveset would had fit him.

Maybe Mega Man, but that wouldn't take full advantage of his athletic capabilities.

 

[Hydewell]

Though Treasure is barely alive, they aren't done for yet. In october, there was a conference related to MegaDrive. Maegawa (the president of Treasure) was there and said this year Treasure will reveal something in 2018, probably a project. In the thread is explained a bit more because they put a translation of a japanese forum.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/tr...al-games-have-something-to-show-in-2018.2277/

It could be a mobile game, but well, at least it won't be a social mobile game because he hates them xD

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Though Treasure is barely alive, they aren't done for yet. In october, there was a conference related to MegaDrive. Maegawa (the president of Treasure) was there and said this year Treasure will reveal something in 2018, probably a project. In the thread is explained a bit more because they put a translation of a japanese forum.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/tr...al-games-have-something-to-show-in-2018.2277/

It could be a mobile game, but well, at least it won't be a social mobile game because he hates them xD

Oh so treasure is still around after all?

That's a big relief. I am not surprised why they are playing things safe with mobile games for now since most of their bigger budget titles tend to flop,

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Treasure is back? And here we all thought the company was dead from bankruptcy or stopped making games.

Then doing mobile games is just their attempt of trying to keep up with the times as far as money in Japan. Most people would rather play mobile games than niche arcade style games. If it will help them earn more money, I am all for it.

Not that it help's Saki's chances in either way.

 

[slambros]

I hope they're working with Nintendo on something but I doubt it...

 

[FunAtParties]

Honest question for all you here, do you really believe Treasure (the company itself) is that important to the contiuation of Sin and Punishment as a series?

Just because a company shuts down doesn't mean all the franchises (that they don't own) are banished with them. The lead developers of S&P could easily be hired and moved somewhere else in Nintendo, or elsewhere, and continue the series there.

Sin and Punishment's future relies on Nintendo, not Treasure.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Honest question for all you here, do you really believe Treasure (the company itself) is that important to the contiuation of Sin and Punishment as a series?

Just because a company shuts down doesn't mean all the franchises (that they don't own) are banished with them. The lead developers of S&P could easily be hired and moved somewhere else in Nintendo, or elsewhere, and continue the series there.

Sin and Punishment's future relies on Nintendo, not Treasure.

This is true. It's still a Nintendo IP even if Treasure were the ones that developed it.

Just that Nintendo would see the series as very low priority since it's not a real heavy hitter like Splatoon or a cult hit like Pikmin.

 

[FunAtParties]

This is true. It's still a Nintendo IP even if Treasure were the ones that developed it.

Just that Nintendo would see the series as very low priority since it's not a real heavy hitter like Splatoon or a cult hit like Pikmin.

Even if Treasure was still going strong, that would still be the case. The funding comes from Nintendo anyway.

Sin and Punishment is going to be low priority unless it gets an Awakening-like revamp.

 

[Hydewell]

Well, I said a mobile game because it would be the easy prediction due to its size but, if the japanese guy who posted in a forum is not lying, it seems their game will be in a "popular hardware" (aká, Switch or PS4).
https://www.resetera.com/posts/208510/

They cannot verified this claim because no one had a Premium Nico Nico account, but well, there is it.

Honest question for all you here, do you really believe Treasure (the company itself) is that important to the contiuation of Sin and Punishment as a series?

Just because a company shuts down doesn't mean all the franchises (that they don't own) are banished with them. The lead developers of S&P could easily be hired and moved somewhere else in Nintendo, or elsewhere, and continue the series there.

Sin and Punishment's future relies on Nintendo, not Treasure.

Has any Nintendo's IP been in this situation? I mean, i don't remember any IP which was developed by a "second party", the company disappeared and Nintendo gave it to another one. The most similar ones were Star Fox (but it was developed by EAD) and Glory of Heracles, but, if I'm not wrong, Nintendo bought it from Data East and gave it to Paon (or something like that, it isn't clear).

 

[Strider_123]

He's got my support. Sad to see he is assist trophy- his moveset would be so different

 

[FunAtParties]

Well, I said a mobile game because it would be the easy prediction due to its size but, if the japanese guy who posted in a forum is not lying, it seems their game will be in a "popular hardware" (aká, Switch or PS4).
https://www.resetera.com/posts/208510/

They cannot verified this claim because no one had a Premium Nico Nico account, but well, there is it.




Has any Nintendo's IP been in this situation? I mean, i don't remember any IP which was developed by a "second party", the company disappeared and Nintendo gave it to another one. The most similar ones were Star Fox (but it was developed by EAD) and Glory of Heracles, but, if I'm not wrong, Nintendo bought it from Data East and gave it to Paon (or something like that, it isn't clear).

You make a good point, I don't think Nintendo has done anything like that tbh. That's not to say the can't or won't, but I'd be lying to say that the future of the series is in good shape.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Nintendo doesn’t usually do that, but the one-two punch of Saki being in Smash and Nintendo needing a lot of new games to sell the Switch could have a hand in them bringing the games back without Treasure.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Nintendo doesn’t usually do that, but the one-two punch of Saki being in Smash and Nintendo needing a lot of new games to sell the Switch could have a hand in them bringing the games back without Treasure.

That would be the biggest miracle of all time for Saki and his franchise.

Though the possibility of that happening is a big if.

 

[FunAtParties]

Nintendo doesn’t usually do that, but the one-two punch of Saki being in Smash and Nintendo needing a lot of new games to sell the Switch could have a hand in them bringing the games back without Treasure.

Implying that the Switch isn't selling regardless.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

And I wouldn't call Sin & Punishment a system seller since it's a more niche smaller series regardless.

Though it would be nice to have.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Implying that the Switch isn't selling regardless.

Heh, true. What I meant is that they’re probably looking to keep their momentum going, and the Switch seems to be selling on the strength of its games.

It’s just wishful thinking but I think we’re going to be seeing a lot of revivals for Nintendo IP on Switch as they look for their next system seller/Fire Emblem type phenomenon.

 

[FunAtParties]

Heh, true. What I meant is that they’re probably looking to keep their momentum going, and the Switch seems to be selling on the strength of its games.

It’s just wishful thinking but I think we’re going to be seeing a lot of revivals for Nintendo IP on Switch as they look for their next system seller/Fire Emblem type phenomenon.

I really hope Switch ends up reviving a ton of franchises, but I'm not getting my hopes up. They haven't really done it yet, and they still have some A tier franchises to run through. Like we haven't gotten a new AC in a long time, new Star Fox is always on the horizon, then there's the series that got ports but could still use a new game like DKC and Mario Kart, and by the time they go through all that it'll be the time when people start expecting the next LoZ or Mario. Nintendo is in a good place right now to never have to stray from the norm.

I'm never comfortable with the future of B and C tier franchises. Nintendo doesn't push every series like they did Fire Emblem. The only way I see them supporting Sin and Punishment in that way is if they revamp it be an FPS like I mentioned before, but even that isn't likely, because there's other already existing options (Duck Hunt?, Kid Icarus?, Star Fox?, Metroid?), and it's not crazy to think they can't just make a new franchise with new ideas altogether.

Honestly I just want Saki in Smash. I really wish people just felt the same way without needing a brand new game to support him. The unfortunate reality of this business is that not every series is built to last. Saki is a cool character, but S&P's time came and went imo. The emergence of dual sticks killed rail shooters, and that's what S&P is. Unless they adapt the series its doomed to stay in purgatory.

 

[MrRoidley]

imo the biggest shot Saki has is if Sakurai wants to add a really obscure character. And I don't mean Takamaru-level obscure (I consider Takamaru to be more retro than actually obscure), I'm saying even more obscure.
As in, Sin & Punishment, Yuyuki, Famicom Tantei Club, Panel de Pon, Metal Slader Glory, and as a western exemple, Startropics
Saki fits perfect in this criteria, and add to that he actually has a decent fanbase.
Oh and Sakurai seems to like the series (I mean aren't the on-air sections of Kid Icarus Uprising basically Sin & Punishment?)

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

imo the biggest shot Saki has is if Sakurai wants to add a really obscure character. And I don't mean Takamaru-level obscure (I consider Takamaru to be more retro than actually obscure), I'm saying even more obscure.
As in, Sin & Punishment, Yuyuki, Famicom Tantei Club, Panel de Pon, Metal Slader Glory, and as a western exemple, Startropics
Saki fits perfect in this criteria, and add to that he actually has a decent fanbase.
Oh and Sakurai seems to like the series (I mean aren't the on-air sections of Kid Icarus Uprising basically Sin & Punishment?)

It is true that Sakurai loves the series and Saki as a whole, but why do you think he kept him as an Assist Trophy? Because he doesn't want to take the risk of adding character that not many Nintendo fans knows about.

You may be right, his only shot is Sakurai wanting to add more old characters and not having to focus on "relevance" as a whole for his additions. People say there is not enough All Stars or new characters to add, but there is still more if we look at what's hot in the speculation scene(Spring Man, Captain Toad, King K Rool, etc).

If we were to compare Saki to those characters, he's completely outmatched. Though we can still dream.

 

[FunAtParties]

imo the biggest shot Saki has is if Sakurai wants to add a really obscure character. And I don't mean Takamaru-level obscure (I consider Takamaru to be more retro than actually obscure), I'm saying even more obscure.
As in, Sin & Punishment, Yuyuki, Famicom Tantei Club, Panel de Pon, Metal Slader Glory, and as a western exemple, Startropics
Saki fits perfect in this criteria, and add to that he actually has a decent fanbase.
Oh and Sakurai seems to like the series (I mean aren't the on-air sections of Kid Icarus Uprising basically Sin & Punishment?)

My only hang up here is that I believe there's a method to Sakurai's madness. He doesn't just add characters willy nilly, I believe he adds characters that he believes contribute significantly to Nintendo's history. Characters like and even to an extent add knowledge of past Nintendo projects, not just games. Characters like and once again are all NES era characters that he seems to have an attachement to representing. Obscure characters that I personally love like Saki, Ray, Isaac, Starfy, and others sadly don't really fit in with these groups, and the most out-there choices outside of the ones previously mentioned are side characters to big franchises.

I think if characters like Saki are to have a chance they need a massive popularity boost just to be recognized, and if it hasn't worked for Isaac yet, I don't know if it ever will. I still wish people would support characters if they like them, and not just because they have a chance. Who knows? Maybe Sakurai will change it up in the future?

Sorry for being so negative all the sudden lol, just putting all my thoughts on the subject together.

 

[ETFruitNinja]

ooooh can I be a Successor of the Earth? Like most other games I am familiar with, though I've never played it, I've seen the entire playthrough on YouTube and can say for sure that the game is among the best of its genre.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

ooooh can I be a Successor of the Earth? Like most other games I am familiar with, though I've never played it, I've seen the entire playthrough on YouTube and can say for sure that the game is among the best of its genre.

And added. Welcome to the club.

That's ok, watching the games can be fun. But playing them will made a big difference since they can be hard as it can get hectic. Bullet hell bosses and many enemies on the screen.

Rail shooters were always great, this one being a very unique case. You seen the first game or the sequel Star Successor on YouTube?

 

[FunAtParties]

And added. Welcome to the club.

That's ok, watching the games can be fun. But playing them will made a big difference since they can be hard as it can get hectic. Bullet hell bosses and many enemies on the screen.

Rail shooters were always great, this one being a very unique case. You seen the first game or the sequel Star Successor on YouTube?

That was fast holy ****

 

[ETFruitNinja]

And added. Welcome to the club.

That's ok, watching the games can be fun. But playing them will made a big difference since they can be hard as it can get hectic. Bullet hell bosses and many enemies on the screen.

Rail shooters were always great, this one being a very unique case. You seen the first game or the sequel Star Successor on YouTube?

I've seen both, more of Star Successor. The graphics are stunning, and the gameplay looks insane, I probably wouldn't get passed the first level lol. I'd still prefer Saki as a character over Isa just cuz he's the original guy. I watched it a couple of years ago, I was curious because Saki was an assist trophy in Smash 4.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I've seen both, more of Star Successor. The graphics are stunning, and the gameplay looks insane, I probably wouldn't get passed the first level lol. I'd still prefer Saki as a character over Isa just cuz he's the original guy. I watched it a couple of years ago, I was curious because Saki was an assist trophy in Smash 4.

Both games? Nice.

I like the two for what they are and vastly prefer Star Successor. Trust me, I sucked a lot on the first level of both games when I first played them, moreso on Star Successor due to the absurd number of bosses in one level.

And true, Saki is still the OG protagonist and the first one to become a Ruffian mutation. It was kind of how I gotten into the series. Soon as Saki become an Assist Trophy, I bought the first game on my Wii and to blown away by the gameplay. Then was I was hyped to hear that sequel would be confirmed years later. And you know what? I still bought it too.

That was fast holy ****

What can I say, I know when a new support shows up.

 

[Hydewell]

Aaaaaaaaaand, probably, the project of Treasure is...

porting their old games into the new hardwares (ps4&Switch):

https://www.resetera.com/threads/tr...ical-mode-after-fan-request-of-ikaruga.35214/

They're experimenting on Switch with Ikaruga, Radiant Silvergun and Gun Star Heroes. And, it seems earlier this year, Ikaruga was rated for PS4.

Well, maybe by this way they can gain some money, expand a bit their company/paying their debts, and trying to do something new or gain attention from some big company in order to do a new game.