The Big Change List Thread

[Supermodel From Paris]

This is a change list thread from Brawl to Smash 4. I want to help people understand where their options went, what still works, what does not work anymore. Will update regularly. Damage uses FRESH (105%) values.

GENERAL:

• Lower short hop.
• Higher full hop and second hop.
• Now as a zair. It kinda sucks. Does 4% damage and is really slow. Use it to recover.
• Now less of a person and more of a sexual object.
• Run speed seems a little slower. It's no big deal, don't worry.

NOTABLE:

• ZSS only needs 15 frames to recover after an airdodge, compared to most of the cast at 22 and 18. Only WFT has less recovery frames at 12.

GROUND:

• Jab is possibly 1 frame slower, but probably still frame 1 (will clarify ASAP). First hit has a launch effect, meaning the jab always finishes. 6% damage, down from from 7%.
• Ftilt is now a little faster, is safe on block. Up-angled version kills at high percents now. 7% damage on neutral version, 8% on up-angled version (both up from 6%). Down-angled version 8%, down from 13%.
• Down tilt hit angle adjusted to suck considerable wang, but is safer on block at max range. 8% damage, up from 6%.
• Dash attack revamped. Unsafe on block most of the time but passes through opponents. Launches upwards instead of to the side. 8% damage up from 6%.
• Forward smash revamped. Is now a kill move but not a great one. 16% damage, up from around 10%.
• Down smash adjusted. 8% down from 11%, stun duration significantly reduced. Holding down when hit now considerably reduces duration of stun. Launch after stun increased, making follow-ups in the air difficult. Max damage is probably dsmash->dthrow->fair. Kill is probably dsmash->up-b. Dsmash->up-b always works, even if they reduce the stun duration. I recommend you use that for now. This is still pretty safe on shield if spaced but it can be shield grabbed now. Stun duration now varies at different ranges; stun duration is longer at close range and less at max range. Use with care.
• Up Smash is the same move, but now kills light characters at high percents. 11% damage, up from 9%(?).
• Grab starts faster, lags less, less range. Can be used OOS more often.

AIR:

• Neutral air has less landing lag and considerably more blockstun, making it safe on shield if you fast fall with it. Space with this ****. Damage unchanged at 10%.
• Forward air connects better and combos from a variety of attacks but no longer kills. First hit lags less, you can sort of combo with it. 12% total damage, down from 17% total damage.
• Back air's hitbox now sucks giant monkey testicles. Damage unchanged at 12%. Kills a bit earlier.
• Down air now has less landing lag and therefore some follow-up potential. 10% damage up from 9%.
• Up air is now pretty slow. 8% damage, down from 10%? Nerfed pretty hard. Still a good move but a shell of its former self.

SPECIALS:

• Paralyzer Shot uncharged shots deal 4% damage, up from whatever it was before. Charged damage is the same. Projectile moves a little slower, allowing you more time to confirm hits.
• Down-b is now ****ing weird. You can now adjust the angle to move horizontally rather than vertically. The invincibility starts after frame 1 some time (so you can't use it to break combos anymore). Footstooling a grounded opponent now buries them in the ground, allowing for a follow-up (with reduced knockback). Grounded opponent can't be stunned, but you can time it to stun immediately after it wears off. Footstooling an airborne opponent spikes them. Kick now bounces off opponents. Still spikes, kills a little later. 14% damage, down from 15%.
• Side-b blows. More recovery, 8% damage down from 19% (what the actual ****). Can't kill, ever. Use a custom version.
• Up-B revamped. Now a vertical recovery special. Kills pretty early and you can combo into it from throws and some aerials. 16% (!) damage total.

 

[Ragnorok_Kitty]

Which custom moves do you like?

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

The only custom I use is the Side B#3 at the moment, though I can see Neutral B#2 being useful.

The other Up Bs either don't kill as easy as the default or have worse recovery.

The Paralyzer has grab setups you can use if you land an uncharged Paralyzer... that said, her run away game is really serious with the blaster so I can totally see #2 being so really strong for someone who wants to play run away/keep away.

Default Side B is pretty much worthless outside of landing the whip box (not the tip) while running off stage as the trajectory it sends you is down and away. Too hard to land since you can only throw it towards the blast zones on a walk off.. the stage makes you tether if you try to reverse it for a stage spike no matter where you are. I just use the 3rd Whip because it gives you combos based on their percent/vectoring.

If they're at low percents or vector away from you, you can land an aerial. At mid percents, you get an up B since it puts them directly over your head. At higher percents it puts you just at short hop height behind their head, allowing for a free back air.

I like the 3rd Down B also (goes really far) but you can't alter the trajectory like you can with the default. The default Down B is one of her best moves so I don't really want to change it unless the others are better.

Those are just my experiences though.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

^Tend to agree. Don't use vanilla side-b if you can get away with it. Either alternative is fine.

Personally I use (for now):

1. Standard Paralyzer. The alternatives take more away than they give back.
2. Project M Side-B.
3. Standard up-b. I don't like the alternatives, this could change though.
4. Comet Kick down-b. Gives me another kill and recovery option, I like it.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Updated with new note about down smash:

• Stun duration now varies at different ranges; stun duration is longer at close range and less at max range. At high %s, point blank down smash can still be combo'd into another dsmash and into aerials.

 

[TrollheartBlue]

• Now less of a person and more of a sexual object.

Is this really necessary? You couldn't just keep it about her actually gameplay and had to add this comment in? It's something that's been debated to death on these forums and this is bait for further distraction on debating it. If you truly feel the need to talk about this issue, feel free to PM me, otherwise, can we please keep it out of the threads?

• Side-b blows

I would disagree. I think Side-B is decent option to try to reset to neutral because of it's knock back. I also think it's a decent punishment against people who roll often.

 

[DoctorDub]

• Now less of a person and more of a sexual object

*sigh* Every damn time...
Those who think like this never had any real respect for the character in the first place.
No, I will not elaborate on that point, but you know I'm right.

Otherwise, this is a very useful collection of info, thank you. I've heard a bunch of folks claim that ZSS got worse, but I disagree. She just changed quite a lot. Up-b now being a useful move is quite interesting, indeed.

 

[pichuthedk]

She didn't get worse she just has a different approach to things, I wanted to add one thing we should probably all talk about in regards to her paralyzer shot.

From what i've noticed it is actually a god send this time around before in brawl one of my biggest weaknesses was my over use of her laser which allowed me to be punished alot more then i ever should have especially when I had a top Tier Zss player in my region as an example to follow.

The main reason I would get punished is for over charging her laser but now in Sm4sh It has happened significantly less then brawl Mainly due to the fact that we don't have to commit to charging it which in my eyes makes it extremely useful for things like frame trapping, baiting people right beside you ect.

being able to stop the charge and shoot it off when ever gives us a variety of options on how we want to use it.

Sexiest thing I've pulled off with her laser was a fully charged laser ->down b ground pound -> down smash-> up b kill (granted people are still not used to her down b doing that )

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It's not my problem that you have zero sense of humor. If you don't like my thread because of the little joke, feel free to report it.