The Bell Tolls for Prince Sable in Smash Ultimate?!?! (In Search of New Thread Owner)

BluePikmin11

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Boy I would love to get my hopes up for Prince Sable, but I am gonna be very cautious still.

The best chance he's got is if Sakurai does not wanna look into the ballot to find the most popular retro candidate, and wants to implement a new transformation fighter in Ultimate again. Sable would probably be the first transformation newcomer to be implemented.

But that chance of that happening is so slim. .-.
 

Nebelung

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Admittedly I have also been getting more convinced Sable is in, which is a very dangerous line of thought, haha. It certainly feels like his chances have just been increasing throughout these months, ever slowly.

The biggest issue imo is that Sakurai openly admitted he's using the ballot for new fighters and Sable just... is not popular. He's mostly just got the power of Sakurai bias on his side, which can be powerful, butttttt... y'know.

On the note of transformation fighters, is there enough moves for Sable's frog and snake forms to be interesting? I feel like a lot of the moves would end up being the equivalent of putting a regular frog or snake in smash, which could be boring.
 

BluePikmin11

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Admittedly I have also been getting more convinced Sable is in, which is a very dangerous line of thought, haha. It certainly feels like his chances have just been increasing throughout these months, ever slowly.

The biggest issue imo is that Sakurai openly admitted he's using the ballot for new fighters and Sable just... is not popular. He's mostly just got the power of Sakurai bias on his side, which can be powerful, butttttt... y'know.

On the note of transformation fighters, is there enough moves for Sable's frog and snake forms to be interesting? I feel like a lot of the moves would end up being the equivalent of putting a regular frog or snake in smash, which could be boring.
Well, just describing as a "regular frog or snake" like that makes him seem boring. When you think about the gameplay mechanics of the frog and snake in FTFTBT (The frog being able to jump high and capture insects with his tongue, and the snake being to do powerful damage and also turn enemies into blocks), there are enough unique, unconventional properties and abilities to make them stand-out as their own fighters, as part of Sable's transformation play-style.
 
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Sable has gotten more likely out of his continued absence, which isn't unusual for many eventual ATs, keep in mind. There are still plenty of ATs left to go, but he does seem like the type of character Sakurai would be interested in reviving by including him in Smash as a hint to his next project.

He would likely have his neutral special be a transformation that cycles through human, frog, and then snake. While in the forms, he has access to a few attribute changes both good and bad as well as their unique abilities. Sable's whole strategy revolves around transforming on the fly depending on the circumstances, just like he does in FTFTBT.

If Sable was going against a ranged fighter, he could use the frog ability to manuever around projectiles and match their range with his tongue, which can be used to catch them in his mouth and spit them out. Or, if he's too far offstage to recover as a human, he can become a frog and use a higher jump to successfully return.

If Sable was going against a fast fighter that could overwhelm him, he could use the snake transformation to bite them and turn them into blocks which allows Sable to put on some decent damage. If he needs an escape route due to high damage, he could transform into the snake to slip underneath hitboxes or climb up walls where his opponent couldn't immediately reach him.

Those are just some ideas. I just wonder if he'd have access to a full moveset while in the transformations because the frog and snake forms can't engage in full battles and that would mean making three movesets from the ground up with the limited resources the base game has to work with.
 

Nebelung

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Yeah that was mostly my point, could they, or would they, make a completely unique fighter (aside from the transformation move) from the frog and snake forms? I do think the idea that they wouldn't have a complete moveset would work pretty well, like a lot of the inputs could be the same move or something.

But I did realize a few more things they could do, so thanks for bringing to my attention! I think either having the snake and frog as one or two B specials, or the transforming into them with less moves ideas seem likely.
 
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All this talk about how Sable would play made me realize he’s one of the characters with the most moveset potential I can think of.

Just for obvious facts, he can turn into a frog (jump higher, use tongue), into a snake (can’t jump, strong bite, spits acid that turns people to stone), and attacks in that huge dust ball. Those are just basic mechanics of the game. Besides that, there’s basic sword strikes, the chainsaw, throwing bags of money, and all the wacky RPG shenanigans that happen in the game (the miner crew, the mammoth, Dr. Witt’s inventions). That’s so much stuff you could make a moveset with!

Man, I really gotta replay this game.
 

BluePikmin11

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To be honest, if Sable only could transform briefly into different for certain moves, I think it would be a bit of a waste of potential. It would not account much of the frog's and snake's pros and cons that would make Prince Sable mechanically distinct in play-style.
 

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All this talk about how Sable would play made me realize he’s one of the characters with the most moveset potential I can think of.

Just for obvious facts, he can turn into a frog (jump higher, use tongue), into a snake (can’t jump, strong bite, spits acid that turns people to stone), and attacks in that huge dust ball. Those are just basic mechanics of the game. Besides that, there’s basic sword strikes, the chainsaw, throwing bags of money, and all the wacky RPG shenanigans that happen in the game (the miner crew, the mammoth, Dr. Witt’s inventions). That’s so much stuff you could make a moveset with!

Man, I really gotta replay this game.
His Assist definitely was one of the most complex, powerful and fun due all of this, and it's just the tip of the iceberg. Such a shame he's in such a weird state of being JPN-only and also sort of a retro relic at best today. :urg:
 
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BluePikmin11

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I have been re-watching Smash 4 character trailers again, and I finally wanted to share a few interesting things I spotted, specifically with Lucas' and Cloud's trailer, where Sable appears twice, both in his snake and frog form in character trailers for JRPG characters:

1536607646792419.gif
1536608137642445.gif


To me, these brief scenes directed by Sakurai tells me that he has a fondness for the prince. That and the return of transformations, and the possibility of new transformation fighters has me somewhat hopeful that Sable will be playable. But that is just mostly a hunch.

:seuss:
 
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Nebelung

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I have been re-watching Smash 4 character trailers again, and I finally wanted to share a few interesting things I spotted, specifically with Lucas' and Cloud's trailer, where Sable appears twice, both in his snake and frog form in character trailers for JRPG characters:

View attachment 163134 View attachment 163135

To me, these brief scenes directed by Sakurai tells me that he has a fondness for the prince. That and the return of transformations, and the possibility of new transformation fighters has me somewhat hopeful that Sable will be playable. But that is just mostly a hunch.

:seuss:
Hahaha, I never noticed that Lucas throwing Rope Snake was supposed to symbolize a battle from the game, since the dust cloud appears when Sable and Rope Snake make contact. Though realistically they'd just have a conversation. (EDIT: just realized it was sable turning INTO a snake and not attacking so they probably are talking! How cute)

It is pretty obvious in general that Sakurai likes Sable Prince when he has made lovingly detailed 3d models of him and his forms and chose him to be in the game over countless other characters. Count me hopeful too! I just hope the bias nets us some more goods from the game, if anything.
 
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Oh yeah so I was just thinking...

Where do you think Sable would show up on the Everyone is Here banner thing?

I think it might be fun if he was by Rope Snake or Cloud. (Definitely for no particular reasons...)

https://i.imgtc.com/8mFB52q.png idk if this will work well but i circled the areas. So what do you think?
Sable alongside both his transformations being right in between Greninja and Snake would be extremely clever.
 

FlintIke

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Hey guys, I too would like to give my support to Prince Sable.
Unfortunately I couldn't get my hands on playing his game (need to do that in the near future!) but I would love to see that little guy in Smash as our new retro character.
He probably was one of my favorite ATs in Smash 4 and I think the potential this character brings to the table would give him a well deserving spot.
Let's hope that sakurai will give that little guy a chance so everyone can enjoy another unique fighter! :D
 

BluePikmin11

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That image kinda makes me wanna see a co-op mode for a potential new FTFTBT game.

Though, I dunno how the execution would play out, but I think it might be fun. Imagine a scenario where the first player's heart is about to reach zero, when the second player can help out to double the strength and take in the damage for protecting the first player. Two players could both contact a simple enemy and conquer them with double the damage, kinda sorta like the Gold Miners.
 

Nebelung

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That image kinda makes me wanna see a co-op mode for a potential new FTFTBT game.

Though, I dunno how the execution would play out, but I think it might be fun. Imagine a scenario where the first player's heart is about to reach zero, when the second player can help out to double the strength and take in the damage for protecting the first player. Two players could both contact a simple enemy and conquer them with double the damage, kinda sorta like the Gold Miners.
Yea I was thinking about that, too... neat idea! Would make the combat a bit more interesting, though it could potentially get too easy depending on the level design. Introducing multiplayer in a sequel is a fun thing to think about... and kind of reminds me of a thing mentioned a while back, where Richard and Sable would be a tag-team in Smash, lol.

Also, maybe instead of red and blue joycons... green ones? For frogs? Hmmm???
 

BluePikmin11

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A recent data mine is going on today, anyone know If there are any remixes for the Gameboy game For the Frog the Bell Tolls? I would like to know BADLY! Surely with the AT and the spirit, there has gotta be at least one new track for Smash Ultimate.

I am hoping for a costume too.
 
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Nebelung

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If you want you can beat up the Prince of Sable when he's untransformed, so... that's kind of neat. I liked the Richard Spirit fight; he randomly turns invincible as a blue Young Link which really brings home the close rivalry you have with him.
Thanks for the info! That spirit fight sounds great, I'm happy we got a reference like that to the game. Are the other spirits from the game in WoL?
 

BluePikmin11

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Is it just me, or is the quality of those ripped spirit art darker than usual?

I faced the Richard fight this afternoon. As soon as I saw him in World of Light, I immediately wanted him, got him, and instantly leveled up him to Lvl. 100.

At this point, it does not look like there will be any songs from the game, which is a big letdown, considering that even Goku's game got musical representation. :(
 
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