That DEFINATELY ain't Falco - Info on Pit's chaingrab and other throw things

[SSD]

Arrow tricks and wing techs are cool and stuff, but I think we're focusing on them a bit too much and letting other useful things fall by the wayside. I mean, I did a search and I found no threads about his chaingrab. I'm making this thread based on the assumption that we no nothing about Pit's chaingrab besides "it works on heavy characters".


Before I go into the information on throwing, let's talk about Pit's grab. There are 3 types of grabs: Standing grabs, dash grabs, and pivot grabs.

Pit has a pretty **** horrid grab range. He has the 3rd worst standing grab(tied with several characters) and the worst dash grab(tied with NO ONE). It's slightly better than his standing grab(0.33 stage builder blocks vs. 0.4 stage builder blocks), which is good for the chaingrab. His pivot grab is actually pretty awesome in comparison, grabbing at 0.7 blocks - just a bit more than DDD's standing grab. However, you won't be using Pivot grab when it comes to the chainthrow.

The duration of his grabs(time from start to bringing up shield) is rather mediocre all around. Standing grab is 15 frames, dash grab is 20, and pivot grab is 18.


Now, onto the chaingrab.

This is done with the Forward Throw. Pit tosses his opponent in front of him, and, against some characters, can move forward and grab them again.


Pit can chain grab:
King Dedede
Fox
Charizard
Donkey Kong
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf
Link
Bowser
Wolf
Falco

He can get 2 grabs on:
Diddy Kong
Pit
Yoshi

Questionable:
Snake
Ike
Sonic
Meta Knight
Peach


Marth can break out with Up B
Zero Suit Samus can break out with Down B


But let's move onward, shall we?

Down throw:

If your opponent cannot be chaingrabbed, this is probably your throw of choice at low percentages. After a down throw, you can usually jump up and do a uair or nair for additional damage, depending on the weight/size of your opponent. A charged upsmash as air dodge bait also works.

At higher percentages, you can shoot an arrow at them, though I don't recommend using down throw at higher percentages.

Up throw:

Apparently, this has followups. and it can kill at 200%. It also does the most damage of all his throws.

Back throw:

Doesn't chain like the fthrow does, so don't use it for that. At lower percents, you can follow up with an ftilt, dash attack, or arrow if they don't shield or dodge right away. If they do, you could try angel ring. Fthrow kills better than this, though bthrow has a better launch angle for gimps. Backthrow, proceed to arrow them or jump out and smack them away, whatever suits your mood.

Forward throw:

Yes, I'm coming back to this. It has other uses besides the chaingrab. This is one of his stronger throws. Against characters that you can't chaingrab, you can follow up with a quick move like an arrow, dash attack, or forward air. Beyond that, there isn't really much to say.


On grab releases:

jab jab regrab doesn't work kids.



That's all for now.

 

[rinoH]

nice wall of text just use f and dthrow

 

[S.D]

Just chain throw them up hills, then no-one breaks out.

Generally you will get at least one regrab from 0 percent. Then it's usually best to go for d throw to u air or something like that.

 

[Siblingz]

His "Chain" throw reminds me of falcon's. It worked when the game was released now it's ineffective. Your better off chaining a Angel ring than to go for another grab.


His Uthrow isn't all that bad. And at higher percentages you can chain usmash with dthrow. (Of course charge it a bit so you can hit them when their airdodge is finished.

 

[SSD]

nice wall of text just use f and dthrow

This is what I get for being productive?

Good job pit board.

 

[Recoil]

Thanks for the info with the testing Solo :D. Hopefully this will clear up the many questions concerning Pit's 0-40~ chaingrab.

I've tried to mix in my game with more bthrows, cause they'll probably expect a fthrow after awhile. Dthrow, as you said, pretty great for racking up damage, but mix it up or they'll know your approaching them with an uair.

 

[:mad:]

This is what I get for being productive?

Good job pit board.

He's probably just upset that you didn't organize it, is all.

 

[rinoH]

nah i was just playin around good job just make it look nicer next time

 

[MrEh]

There is some talk of a grab release to regrab combo Pit can do. Apparently, ground release -> first two hits of jab -> grab will work. I do not have someone else to help see if SDI allows for a release, so I will not say that this works.

Doesn't work dude. I love explaining this, since I love grabs so much...

Every character has 30 frames of immobility after being released from a grab. Likewise, every character has 30 frames of immobility when they release someone from a grab. Both Pit and his opponent regain control at the exact same time, so the only way pit would be able to do anything to his opponent would be if Pit had a frame 1 Jab, which he does not. Pit has a frame 4 jab, and every character in the game can escape by rolling. Some characters, like Ike, can punch Pit in the face before he can do anything. In DK's special case, he can Dsmash Pit before his Jab even comes out.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

Doesn't work dude. I love explaining this, since I love grabs so much...

Every character has 30 frames of immobility after being released from a grab. Likewise, every character has 30 frames of immobility when they release someone from a grab. Both Pit and his opponent regain control at the exact same time, so the only way pit would be able to do anything to his opponent would be if Pit had a frame 1 Jab, which he does not. Pit has a frame 4 jab, and every character in the game can escape by rolling. Some characters, like Ike, can punch Pit in the face before he can do anything. In DK's special case, he can Dsmash Pit before his Jab even comes out.

then how are any grab release chains possible at all (ness, lucas)
obvious troll is obvious


something else ive noticed is that if you dthrow to an utilt at zero percent it seems to always hit, im not sure if its because of bad opponent timing and DI but for me so far its been a guaranteed combo... i dunno something to look into i guess

 

[Coffee™]

But who else does it work on?



People who can break out of the chaingrab with a jump:
Mario
Luigi
yoshi
ROB
Kirby
Wario
Zelda
That other kid who shoots lots of arrows and has a really high voice
Samus
Olimar
Pikachu
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Lucario
Jigglypuff (did I even need to check?)
Marth
Ike
Ness
Lucas
Mr. Game&Watch
SEGAHOG

not sure:
Peach - managed to hover, so she can probably break out.
Diddy kong - I got a second grab in. I probably messed up the timing on the jump.
Sheik - I tested several times, once managing to break out after one throw, but then grabbing and throwing again without resetting the percentages allowed a second grab. She did start the jump, though, so I wonder...
Meta Knight - I think you may be able to get 1 re-grab in, with proper timing. Not that it makes a difference against him....
King dedede - considering how fat this ****ing penguin is, I'm 95% sure you can chain grab him. But I got mixed results, so I HAVE to put him here for the name of science.
That chick with the boobs - Can be chaingrabbed, but might be able to break out with the flip kick thing.

Pit can chain grab D3, Snake, Fox, Charizard, Donkey Kong, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Link, and to some extent Ike, Bowser Wolf, and Falco, these last 4 have some charcater specific ways to get out.

In addition he can chain two grabs on Marth Diddy Kong, Zss, Yoshi, other Pit and Sonic. Not sure about MK and Peach but Zss can get out with her Down B and Marth can get out with his Up B.

Up throw:
This throw sucks. Can't kill, can't combo, can't do much of anything. Don't use it.

This throw does not suck and it is Pits strongest and most damaging throw, it also has followups, they just arent as blatantly obvious as Dthrows or Fthrows.

Yes, I'm coming back to this. It has other uses besides the chaingrab. Like I said before, it is the strongest throw, so if you REALLY want to KO with a throw, use this

It isn't. It only seems that way because at higher percentages when closer to the edge of a stage and if the opponent DI's badly. But honestly if they DI this throw correctly your opponents will live to some ridiculous percentages.

On grab releases:

There is some talk of a grab release to regrab combo Pit can do. Apparently, ground release -> first two hits of jab -> grab will work. I do not have someone else to help see if SDI allows for a release, so I will not say that this works.

Like MrEh said, this just doesn't work. It can catch people offguard the first time you use it but any good player won't fall for it a second time.

 

[kown]

pit cannot cg snake. not even one

 

[Admiral Pit]

U-throw is a great throw, just isnt used for CGing. On average it KOs a Pit at about 200% on FD, should one even get up to that point, still remembering Rogue doin that to me...

Its most damaging like Mania said, 11% at max compared to F-throw's 10%, D-throw's 6% and B-throw's 8%.

 

[Blistering Speed]

then how are any grab release chains possible at all (ness, lucas)
obvious troll is obvious

There are four exceptions.

1) When DK is released, he is given 20 frames of immobility.
2) When Bowser releases someone, he is given 20 frames of immobility (hence his **** grab releases).
3) Ness and Lucas when released are given 40 frames of immobility (hence them getting ***** by grab releases).

 

[SSD]

Pit can chain grab D3, Snake, Fox, Charizard, Donkey Kong, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Link, and to some extent Ike, Bowser Wolf, and Falco, these last 4 have some charcater specific ways to get out.

In addition he can chain two grabs on Marth Diddy Kong, Zss, Yoshi, other Pit and Sonic. Not sure about MK and Peach but Zss can get out with her Down B and Marth can get out with his Up B.

I don't think it works on sonic, but I'm glad that someone here knows more about this. Updated first post.

This throw does not suck and it is Pits strongest and most damaging throw, it also has followups, they just arent as blatantly obvious as Dthrows or Fthrows.

...so what are these followups? It'd be really cool to know them, for the good of the community. Partially why I made this thread to begin with - there was no information out there.

whatever. updated first post.

It isn't. It only seems that way because at higher percentages when closer to the edge of a stage and if the opponent DI's badly. But honestly if they DI this throw correctly your opponents will live to some ridiculous percentages.

I know about the DI thing. Pit's throws aren't made for killing. But from my testing, this was the strongest throw. If it isn't, then which one is?

Like MrEh said, this just doesn't work. It can catch people offguard the first time you use it but any good player won't fall for it a second time.

I didn't think it worked, but with no way to actually test it, I did not want to write it off. updated first post.

something else ive noticed is that if you dthrow to an utilt at zero percent it seems to always hit, im not sure if its because of bad opponent timing and DI but for me so far its been a guaranteed combo... i dunno something to look into i guess

DI can avoid the uptilt.

 

[Nikenick]

There are four exceptions.

1) When DK is released, he is given 20 frames of immobility.
2) When Bowser releases someone, he is given 20 frames of immobility (hence his **** grab releases).
3) Ness and Lucas when released are given 40 frames of immobility (hence them getting ***** by grab releases).

You only listed 3.
How about Wario then, is he the fourth exception?

And I've done two fthrow grabs tons of times on Lucario, and I've did it a few times on MK.
I'm not sure about MK, but I think that Lucario can get grabbed twice.
Good thread btw.

 

[Silent Beast]

You only listed 3.
How about Wario then, is he the fourth exception?

Maybe he meant Ness and Lucas were the third and fourth exceptions. Or it could have been a typo.

As for Wario, I've heard he gets infinited by several characters, but I'm only familiar with the Yoshi infinite, so I'll just cover that. When characters jump break from a grab, they get 50 frames of immobility (except for Jigglypuff, who gets 49), as opposed to the 30 frames from the ground break. As MrEh said, the character that forces a break suffers from 30 frames of lag, regardless of whether it was a ground break or a jump break. So on a jump break, the grabber has a 20 frame advantage before the opponent recovers. Yoshi's grab always forces jump breaks (unless the opponent mashes fast enough that he forces a break before entering Yoshi's mouth; then he'll get a ground break). Wario goes straight up on a jump break. In the 20 frames that Yoshi has, he's able to regrab Wario without moving forward. Hence, the infinite.

Grab release frame data thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209846

 

[MrEh]

The only reason why Wario gets ***** out of a grab release is because when he jumps out of a grab, he doesn't really go anywhere. He just floats in front of you like a big target. All the characters in the game can do something to Wario if he gets a jump release.

Either way, it's not something that's easily taken advantage of. Wario is hard to grab, and Pit can't force him to jump release anyway.

 

[Diddyknight]

almost all....Diddy fails at grab releases on wario. fthrow to fair is too good =3

 

[teh_pwns_the]

There are four exceptions.

1) When DK is released, he is given 20 frames of immobility.
2) When Bowser releases someone, he is given 20 frames of immobility (hence his **** grab releases).
3) Ness and Lucas when released are given 40 frames of immobility (hence them getting ***** by grab releases).

thanks for clearing up Mr.Eh's broad incorrect statement

 

[Coffee™]

I don't think it works on sonic, but I'm glad that someone here knows more about this. Updated first post.

You can regrab Sonic at least once, he might be able to get out by using his Up B but i'm not sure if he can do this on the 2nd grab or the 3rd.

...so what are these followups? It'd be really cool to know them, for the good of the community. Partially why I made this thread to begin with - there was no information out there.

As I said its nothing blatantly obvious and it most depends on how your opponent reacts.

I know about the DI thing. Pit's throws aren't made for killing. But from my testing, this was the strongest throw. If it isn't, then which one is

Up Throw is.


Also, you can CG Snake just fine, you simply have to time it correctly. If you don't then he'll be able to spot dodge. Ike is similar to Snake in this manner.

 

[smash superstar]

If they are at high percents I normally go for throwing them off the edge with back throw or front throw then keep hitting them with arrows....you can normally get up to 3 hits on them if you can time right.

 

[LoveChrist]

Good job clearing things up.

 

[Arzengel]

I love to chain-grabbing my opponents, however for characters like wolf and fox if they use reflector they can escape quite easily, i had a friend who used to do that, a lot, did annoy me. The trick is to press the buttons (DI + Z) as quick as possible, therefore leaving yourself less open, with that the reflector strategy gets pwned.

 

[PenUmbra]

Fox is very hard to be chaingrabbed at 0. He actually falls too fast and can actually act if you aren't almost perfect. You need to start around 10 for optimal results.

 

[Arzengel]

Fox is very hard to be chaingrabbed at 0. He actually falls too fast and can actually act if you aren't almost perfect. You need to start around 10 for optimal results.

Start around 10%? I thought the lower the damage, the less far he flies, hence , easier to
re-grab again.