Tell me about down B

[TOCK]

I don't get this move.

I'm not a ZSS player, I'm just having trouble punishing this move. Can someone tell me about the lag and possible invincibility of this move?

I can't seem to punish it and I don't know how to bait it. I want to believe there is something you can do about it.
Thought I would come here and find out for sure.

 

[Dawnz_]

I played 8 hours a few nights ago with my friend a falcon main, and we went over what he should do with this move. At first he was getting killed by it constantly same with my up-b. The first thing we tested is my recovery time after he used shield on it and I was in lag until i slowly fell to the ground so you should be able to get a lot off if you shield it or spot dodge. But she gains a short time of invincibility during the initial rise which you should look at the timing for yourself. If she uses down-b and hits a wall she'll automatically wall jump. Also she cannot land on a platform until she finishes the animation. During the time you see if flashing and she kicks it will be a meteor at this time if you're on the ground you'll be planted, If you try to footstool samus while she is flashing she will do a spin jump move, anytime after she will do normal knockback and she can down-air after she gets to 180 degrees. She also can change directions a bit, but the move is still slow so watch out for that. If you have any specific questions about her let me know and ill try to help as best I can.

 

[pichuthedk]

She won't wall jump if she holds down.
if she flip jump kicks you she will be put into an animation where it looks like she's crouching, depending on things like when she throws out the kick and how tall your character/shield strength is, she will either be to low and forced to land in the crouching animation OR she will be high enough to use her second jump before she lands.

To counter her flip jump at lower % s you can literally just jump under her and air dodge timing it so that you get under her before she reaches the apex of the jump, this will then in turn force the footstool (even if she hits you with the footstool she can't act till reaching the ground).

Punish her based off which one she chooses generally the kick can be shielded and punished via jump+ areial or foxtrot over to grab/smash.

The footstool is harder cause she can maneuver well horizontally in the air till landing, play safe unless you are read king.

Never challenge zss flip jump off stage not worworth cause she can probably spike you and recovery even if you trade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-plW1mlzsyE&feature=youtu.be

 

[TOCK]

Thanks for the help guys.

One thing though. How often do you guys use this move to recover over your other options?

 

[Dawnz_]

I use it when im very far away to start my recovery, or when i want to do a mixup either close because you can use this and stay in almost the same spot and use the start up invincibility to my advantage near the ledge or start recovering low, wall jump off of it and up-b or just grab the ledge. A lot of my recovery is just using tether, safest and quickest option.

 

[Zero Suit Roxas]

I use it to recover more than anything else. I probably use that more than any other move, too. Yes, I do use it more than I shoot with the Paralyzer. It gives me a chance to avoid being meteor smashed and I'm invincible for a little bit.
If people try kicking and miss with Flip Jump they leave themselves open to some heavy punishment. As long as you shield when they try using it, you should be fine and possibly be given the chance to punish.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Thanks for the help guys.

One thing though. How often do you guys use this move to recover over your other options?

Constantly. I try to always get it out before my second jump and up b of course.
I only really mix it up with tether.

 

[pichuthedk]

I use it when im very far away to start my recovery, or when i want to do a mixup either close because you can use this and stay in almost the same spot and use the start up invincibility to my advantage near the ledge or start recovering low, wall jump off of it and up-b or just grab the ledge. A lot of my recovery is just using tether, safest and quickest option.

Pretty sure it's not on startup anymore have you never been hit and tried to do it again but it came out side b cause down b was gone?

But I get what your saying I generally am the same.

 

[David Viran]

Pretty sure it's not on startup anymore have you never been hit and tried to do it again but it came out side b cause down b was gone?

But I get what your saying I generally am the same.

Yeah I think the invincibility frames come out on frame 3 due to testing with jabs.

 

[pichuthedk]

Also the most important thing about down b zss mains should practice is the dreaded fear tactic that is flip jump platform canceling.


I'll have a video about it here or something soon xD.

 

[extremechiton]

The way to deal with down b is usually to full hop fair if your character can reach,
Or if you just shield it, zss will be in lag until she lands, so you can be creative with your punish.
Sometimes you can short hop up air just before she hits you.
And some characters cam anti air upsmash.

I usualy do the flip kick when someone is in endlag from charging a smash, or throwing a projectile, as it can cover great distance on a short amount of time and is super deadly. So baiting it could work of you have a low lag move to frame trap it.

 

[Suyon]

So, I have a question with down b kick. How does one spike with ZSS down b?

 

[David Viran]

So, I have a question with down b kick. How does one spike with ZSS down b?

You hit with the outer most part of the hitbox.

 

[extremechiton]

So, I have a question with down b kick. How does one spike with ZSS down b?

You hit with the outer most part of the hitbox.

You also have to be at about a 45 degree angle above your opponent.
I might have a video of me pulling this off on my youtube channel.

Edit: at the end, the last stock, i styled so much on this little mac
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NQXD6iSAFM4

 

[David Viran]

You also have to be at about a 45 degree angle above your opponent.
I might have a video of me pulling this off on my youtube channel.

But the kick always comes out at the same angle so if you just aim for the outer part of the hitbox you will get it.

 

[extremechiton]

But the kick always comes out at the same angle so if you just aim for the outer part of the hitbox you will get it.

Well then.... i did some experimenting and i was able to spike someone below their head, but it was on ddd cuz hes so big. Tried it on smaller characters and its just too hard. Hitting them on te head is easiest

Also, the non kick version has 2 spike hitboxes as well. At the apex of her jump, and at the very end of the animation

 

[LordFluffy]

Keep in mind, usually the Kick coming out will be the opposite direction of where your momentum went, so left momentum = kick right
You can however change the totally distance traveled and the direction of the kick with the stick, so by moving your stick slighty to the right after going right with the D B, the kick will also go Right