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Technical Play...

prisonchild

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
604
Location
Training Mode (or Toronto)
how important are technical skills to succeed competitively? i'm leaning towards 'it's more of a tool than a necessity'. then again, input from some better players would be helpful. for example, do you think a player can be good with fox without using SHDL?



as a side topic, who are some of the more technical (most technical?) players and how do they use their technical skills?
 

NovaSmash

Banned via Administration
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
2,012
Location
Marietta, Ga
3DS FC
2079-8171-3301
I don't think techskill is that important to be good at ssb64. JaimeHR is a good example. He doesn't have great techskill but has amazing spacing and is a great player. I've also played people who have way more techskill than me that could ff uair and shdl and I was able to beat them consistently. Overall I would say spacing and combos are more important for becoming a good player.
 

weedwack

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
365
Location
NJ
I wouldn't think too much about technical proficiency in and of itself. Focus on moving quickly and fluently with the characters, and the requisite tech skill will follow.

Many advanced combos do require a great amount of tech skill. But again, I wouldn't think about tech skill. Think about landing the combos, and the tech skill will follow.
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
I'd say not that important. I think you can win most matches with almost only pika grabs and gimps with no combos. Wasn't something that was noticed when Gerson's pika was first seen in vids? SHDL is not that important either IMO. Low laser is better, and even that isn't great against someone who knows how to play DL (japanese players for example).
 

Fireblaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 17, 2003
Messages
1,859
Location
Storrs, Connecticut
Tech skill is simply a tool. At lower levels, someone with better tech skill can simply overpower another player without even outhinking them. But beyond that, it's about who simply reads the other. The only case where this isn't true is when a player uses technology that his opponent has never encountered before, so his opponent has to figure out how to beat it or end up losing.
 

Kimimaru

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
915
Location
CA
I think good movement is more important than tech skill in this game. However, you do need to be able to perform basic tech, like Z-cancelling, consistently. After you have those two down and you've played enough to be able to read players you can start integrating more advanced tech if you think it'll help you.
 

clubbadubba

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
4,086
To me it seems the biggest difference between the top of the top players and the really good players is in their movement, which I've always considered to be part of techskill. I think its a mistake to think techskill refers to only doing fancy things like shine jabs. Most fancy tech skills like that are pretty useless. Its the more subtle tech skills involved in having complete control over your character's movement that seems to be necessary to be a top player.
 

Fireblaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 17, 2003
Messages
1,859
Location
Storrs, Connecticut
To me it seems the biggest difference between the top of the top players and the really good players is in their movement, which I've always considered to be part of techskill. I think its a mistake to think techskill refers to only doing fancy things like shine jabs. Most fancy tech skills like that are pretty useless. Its the more subtle tech skills involved in having complete control over your character's movement that seems to be necessary to be a top player.

What you're describing is just footsies though. Footsies isn't considered technical skill unless you're doing a hard technique that heavily improves footsies. There aren't many hard techniques in 64 that serve that purpose.
 

prisonchild

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
604
Location
Training Mode (or Toronto)
To me it seems the biggest difference between the top of the top players and the really good players is in their movement, which I've always considered to be part of techskill. I think its a mistake to think techskill refers to only doing fancy things like shine jabs. Most fancy tech skills like that are pretty useless. Its the more subtle tech skills involved in having complete control over your character's movement that seems to be necessary to be a top player.
this post is a good segue into my follow up question: how important is fast movement?

FWIW I also consider general movement a part of tech skill.
 

Sedda

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
2,393
Location
Luigi sucks
As a new player, I think it's important (for me) to keep in mind that just because it might not be as important, you shouldn't practice it. I go on practice mode every day even if it's just for 5 minutes to practice some stuff, and it makes me feel more comfortable with the controller when I have to play other people.

Some people being genetically incapable of SHDL is not the case here. Anyone can practice it and get it eventually, but it still doesn't help if you don't get to play humans much.
 

B-Town

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
112
Location
Montreal, QC
I think some tech skills are important but overall tech skill is not what it's cracked up to be. It's also hard to define what is tech skill. To me effective movement is a large part of tech skill. You could have great spacing in your head but if ability to get the character where you want to go is bad then it doesn't matter.

On the other hand many tech skills can give your opponent a unique challenge but are not necessary. For example as fox, in a situation where a shine spike is possible, you could often also just nair off the edge, dair as they go for the ledge repeatedly and many less efficient options... it definitely helps to find new ways of doing things that are more effective BUT and this is my main point: I think a lot of online players suffer from using tech skills as a crutch and not improving other parts of their game. As Fireblaster said, at lower levels, someone with better tech skill can simply overpower another player without even outhinking them. Based on that you could just keep improving your tech skills to overpower even better players but there's a limit to this because there will be player who have a better balance of tech skills, spacing, and reading to beat you.

Overall I think that spacing allows you to capitalize on good reads and those two are only as useful as the tech skill you have to implement them. I think the best way to improve is to only use tech skills as a means to an end, keep you tech skill up to par with the rest of your gameplay but don't let it surpass it or improvement slows.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
Consider a hypothetical situation in which a player never short hops (inb4 Blue Yoshi references).

Could he be a top player? If you ask me, yes, if he is good enough at everything else he could be. However, it'd be A LOT more difficult, because of the options he lacks from no short hopping. It's like his Pikachu is a lower tier character than everybody else's Pikachu (or whatever character).

I think "tech skill is a tool" is a pretty good answer. The more tools you have, the more things you can do with your character, which makes your character (in effect) better, which makes things easier.

P.S. Playing tacos has taught me that being able to mash out of DK's FThrow ASAP gives a ******** advantage in DK dittos :mad:
 

mixa

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
2,005
Location
Isle of ゆぅ
LD doesn't Z-cancel and he got top-8 at Zenith.

You can't get away with this, y'know.
There are vids.
 

Nintendude

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,024
Location
San Francisco
I was just going by what other people said. Also I remember watching him and he was missing a lot of Z-cancels. Maybe he does it but not consistently.
 

RockinRudy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Messages
371
Location
Canada
how important are technical skills to succeed competitively? i'm leaning towards 'it's more of a tool than a necessity'. then again, input from some better players would be helpful. for example, do you think a player can be good with fox without using SHDL?



as a side topic, who are some of the more technical (most technical?) players and how do they use their technical skills?

I don't think techskill is that important to be good at ssb64. JaimeHR is a good example. He doesn't have great techskill but has amazing spacing and is a great player. I've also played people who have way more techskill than me that could ff uair and shdl and I was able to beat them consistently. Overall I would say spacing and combos are more important for becoming a good player.

I've never won a tournament. Tech skill sucks. Play Pikachu or Kirby if you want to win.


"Don't get hit."
"Miss any Tech. Punished."
"Refuse to learn Tech skill. Enjoy Losing (If it's by me it's a privilege) "
"Read players. Like a book. Study. Learn. Exploit."
"Can't read? Prepare the Salt."
"Be a hawk. Space. Swift. Target."
"In 64 don't judge by tier. Prepare yourself."
Well I'l see you guys at Apex 2014.
I'll be there.
Watching.
Playing.
 

Timotheus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
228
Location
Germany
to know everything about the movement of your character gives you more chances to win the game. that's why the japan skilllevel is higher in generel imo. they do more to share their knowledge to other players
 

mixa

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
2,005
Location
Isle of ゆぅ
they do more to share their knowledge to other players
Suddenly I remembered all those times when I was playing a videogame that was new me, with someone experienced at it, and they wouldn't teach me relevant stuff about the game, or just give me half-assed answers to everything while holding that "I'm going ******** any moment now" expression in their faces.
 

Barbs Jr

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
86
I played this guy named zenyore.

His control and movement were part of what made him so good. Obviously other factors went into it. But it was fun seeing him do cool stuff and this game is supposed to be about fun anyway. So even if it's not imperative to doing well, but it's important because of the fun factor
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
I think you're mixing things up. OP was talking about being good at winning matches and in that regard, we don't think pure techskill is that important (cf. other posts). However, I do agree that playing with good techskill is more fun/enjoyable/impressive/respectable/whatever nice.
 

rawrimamonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
745
Location
dearborn heights MI
As technical as I am, I can tell you that execution will always be infinitely more important. As long as you're solid, can space well, bait well, know stages and matchups well, it will always outweight being technical. The limit to how technical you need to be should be limited to what technicality is needed to finish the combo you're performing, I think this goes for any smash game in general.

Basically tl;dr, theres no need to be ******** about it lol.
 

Kabutox

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
101
Location
Amsterdam
You can only be as good as your tech skill and execution, so yes, to reach your own top-level you'll need to perfect your techskill to expand all your options. Utilizing those options is not a part of techskill, just gameknowledge.

I could have all the gameknowledge in the world.. If I can't control my character, it won't do me any good.
 
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