Technical info on all-star mode?

[shuall]

Anybody have any info on how they managed it?

I'm assuming they aren't loading all character's data into memory at the start of the match. I was under the assumption that there is not enough memory to do that. As far as I know, shielda, samus and pokemon trainer have to load all their char code into memory at the beginning, but I could also be wrong on that.

I know dantarion was messing with loading chars using other chars loading code. This allowed Ike Climbers because it was loading Ike with ICs' loading code. This also allowed us to have sopo loading, by loading ICs with normal char loading code.

The most obvious guess is the char info is swapped out on death. How much finagling has to be done on char loading code to do this? An alternative would be that the next character is chosen on death and loaded into another player slot, then when you die, the control is switched to the new character and the old player slot is disconnected allowing loading next char and unloading previous char to be done while you're fighting (asynchronously).

First one seems easier, but I'd be really interested in an explanation from someone who knows better.

 

[Exodo]

i dont know, but whatever it is, is gonna be freaking epic!!!

 

[ECHOnce]

Your guess is right - if a character is replaced, e.g. in regular All-Star mode or when Shielda or Samus/Zamus transform, the game has to load the new character file then and there. That's why transforming as Sheik/Zelda is noticeably slower in Brawl than it was in Melee - the timing wasn't purposely set that way, the Brawl character models just contain way more info. The only characters loaded at any given time are those that are currently on screen; there's no buffer loading done beforehand or the game probably wouldn't be able to handle it.

 

[shuall]

Cool, I didn't know shielda was loaded differently in brawl than melee. Haven't done a lot of brawl hacking, but I'm interested.

 

[ECHOnce]

Cool, I didn't know shielda was loaded differently in brawl than melee. Haven't done a lot of brawl hacking, but I'm interested.

They are loaded in the same manner. Brawl's is just slower because of all the extra character model data that is tacked on with Brawl graphics, along with generally more things going on in the background (stage animations, other character(s), etc.).

Little tidbit note to add on for clarity: if you play Shielda in PM with a Wii, you'll notice the transform time is still relatively long, if not the same. If you emulate the same version of PM via Dolphin on a decent computer, however, you'll find that the transform finishes in a fraction of the time (probably about 15-30 frames, or 1/4-1/2 seconds). The console just isn't capable of loading the character any faster.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

You can even check this by looking at the video again. When Charizard dies, his death sound starts to play, but is cut off when the next character comes on. When it gets cut off, that is when it starts loading the next character.

 

[Kankato]

Do we pick our characters in order or is the next character random or what? Do we place multiple character select markers? Is this doable with more than two players? Can we also use turbo and become one step closer to Project Mahvel?

 

[shairn]

Do we pick our characters in order or is the next character random or what? Do we place multiple character select markers? Is this doable with more than two players? Can we also use turbo and become one step closer to Project Mahvel?

-You pick your characters in order with a single marker
-Yes
-Yes, you can use any other mode, except for fixed camera(Because all-star replaces angled camera)

 

[wiiztec]

Character loading code was not changed, I just poke the same addresses that the on the fly character switcher does, also sopo is just a different character ID their's also a sona ID

 

[shuall]

Character loading code was not changed, I just poke the same addresses that the on the fly character switcher does, also sopo is just a different character ID their's also a sona ID

Cool, I know melee has poponana as one character, then popo as another. So if popo and nana are seperate characters, then does IC loading code load popo and then nana? Does that mean we could not only load doubles of one character using that loading code, but you could load two separate characters that are both controlled by one controller? Like marth/roy team? Or mario/luigi?

 

[wiiztec]

Ice Climbers, Sopo, & Sona all have differen't character ID's

 

[ECHOnce]

Cool, I know melee has poponana as one character, then popo as another. So if popo and nana are seperate characters, then does IC loading code load popo and then nana? Does that mean we could not only load doubles of one character using that loading code, but you could load two separate characters that are both controlled by one controller? Like marth/roy team? Or mario/luigi?

Not completely sure what you were trying to say here, but It is possible to play two characters with one controller already via a glitch with training mode. (I realize this probably isn't what you're looking for but I'm just throwing it out there in the case it does) Enter training mode with a controller plugged into P2-P4, begin training mode (as the "P1" player), and then exit. When you return to VS, you'll have control over both P1 and the P2-P4 slot you're actually plugged in to.

 

[TheKk-47]

Wait, so you're telling me I can use this, turbo, and stamina mode to achieve Project Mahvel? If yes, holy cow, so does that mean stocks can be used with stamina now? And I also heard the stamina cap was raised to 999, is that true?

 

[wiiztec]

Not completely sure what you were trying to say here, but It is possible to play two characters with one controller already via a glitch with training mode. (I realize this probably isn't what you're looking for but I'm just throwing it out there in the case it does) Enter training mode with a controller plugged into P2-P4, begin training mode (as the "P1" player), and then exit. When you return to VS, you'll have control over both P1 and the P2-P4 slot you're actually plugged in to.

Their is also codes for that, first jose gallardo made one then I made one that is toggleable mid match http://geckocodes.org/?c=RSBE01

 

[shuall]

Not completely sure what you were trying to say here, but It is possible to play two characters with one controller already via a glitch with training mode. (I realize this probably isn't what you're looking for but I'm just throwing it out there in the case it does) Enter training mode with a controller plugged into P2-P4, begin training mode (as the "P1" player), and then exit. When you return to VS, you'll have control over both P1 and the P2-P4 slot you're actually plugged in to.

Sorry, I'm talking about this http://www.twitch.tv/dantarion/b/480165254?t=27m57s but that's also interesting.

Ice Climbers, Sopo, & Sona all have differen't character ID's

I know that, I have to look into what dantarion means by IC loading code. I'm assuming setting popo charID uses normal char loading code and only popo model/hitboxes etc, and nana does the same for nana. Setting poponana charID uses different loading code which loads popo model/hitboxes etc, and nana model/hitboxes.

 

[RomanCenturionX]

So by effect does this mean that character assists or character tag outs can also be possible due to how the Brawl engine handles its Charcter IDs? Since I would assume the Brawl engine takes in references to character IDs and then manipulates those references to find the appropriate data associated with the ID and move sets as well.

In a non-technical side note: I need my Falcon assists, those would be sick as hell.

 

[shuall]

So by effect does this mean that character assists or character tag outs can also be possible due to how the Brawl engine handles its Charcter IDs? Since I would assume the Brawl engine takes in references to character IDs and then manipulates those references to find the appropriate data associated with the ID and move sets as well.

In a non-technical side note: I need my Falcon assists, those would be sick as hell.

Funny, that's what I was thinking too, if you're able to swap out any character mid-match, it'd be cool to get tag-outs/assists.

At this point my original question seems to be answered, so it's all "does this mean..." speculation. Fun to think about though.

 

[MrTea]

All star crew battles 0.0

I'm like beyond hype for this