Tech chasing, missed techs, grab game tips?

[xelad1]

Hey guys I've been playing more captain falcon recently and techskill is not a problem since I've been playing the game long enough to be pretty comfortable with just about every character (and I main falco). Anyway I've decided to pick up captain falcon more seriously (I play him pretty frequently just because he's amazing fun.....but) and I realize that my techchasing and general grab game abilities are pretty god awful (probably BECAUSE I main falco and he's not exactly known for his stellar grab game now is he?).

I was wondering if you all had any pointers in terms of how to predict/read techs, missed techs etc.... what to chase with and how to properly work captain falcon's dash dance/grab game. I've read the guide here for some pointers but its pretty basic stuff and not as in depth as I'm looking for...... so any and all tips are appreciated!

 

[Artistry]

Try to dashdance in the general direction underneath them, and if they tech, you can go in either direction. Also, if they flub a tech, you can try to get a shffled knee.

 

[Vall3y]

most often used are (in tech chasing) are dair and fair
most of the time you should be able to dair/fair an opponent out of every tech option he has.
dair is an uber combo starter, and fair is an uber finisher. both are harder to land than your other areal moves.
grabbing... grabbing is obviously good versus shields. if you make him shield or know he is gonna shield, dash and grab away. may sound like an obvious tip but with falcon's speed you can go for a grab even from pretty far away.
nairs combo into grabs. on fast faller chars only at very low %, but at higher it just drops them so it acts as a grab anyway. when you hit someone with a single nair, usually a grab is the best way to follow it up.
about tech chasing. you get better at it with experience i guess. you should have a general idea about people's tech habits even if you play them as falco (though people do tend to have diffrent tech habits when they're thrown). there are some common tech habits such as tech away from the edge, tech in place on the first throw, miss tech on quick dthrows on low %, tech along with di etc... you should also see if he changes his techs, or maybe just techs by impulse etc

 

[xelad1]

Well I understand tech chasing and I do it somewhat with falco, when I can get it off, usually my best options are dair. But falcon is a completely different beast, and I know a good portion of his game revolves around tech chasing and his grab game, something I'm not all that familiar with. What is a good way to defend against getting attacked out of a flubbed tech, and how should I see that coming, I've had that happen to me more than once which makes me a little apprehensive about my tech chasing, should I shield and waveshield out to chase or something?

 

[technomancer]

Occasionally mix in a no-tech wakeup attack, but hit every tech that you mean to and tech out of every combo you can, and mix up your DI and techs ALOT.

 

[irealyhatepozers]

i think he means when his opponent is attacking him from a flubbed tech. i have this problem too

 

[that 1 guy]

Pretty much in order to tech chase well you have to be very observant. When your opponent lands on the ground you can just dash dance right out of range of his get up attack and go in for a grab when he finally moves. Or if he techs just run in for the grab. It's simple, but you have to be on your toes. If you are going for landing a stomp or a knee you pretty much have to memorize precisely where to do it. You'll have to guess since falcon if you are going for a stomp or knee, but the payout you get for guessing correctly (or knowing if your opponent is predictable) is really high.

I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for. You seem to know what to do. I'm thinking you're having problems with the actual execution of the whole tech chasing bit, which pretty much takes practice.

 

[Rage.]

You have to have good reaction, dash dance the perfect distance (not to close so they would hit you if they missed a tech and got up attackingly, but not to far that if they teched the otehr way that you wouldent be able to get them)
once you see where they are going Imediatly charge for them

 

[Vall3y]

the best way to punish a flubbed tech is kneeing\stomping right there instantly.
if you didnt expect him to flub a tech, the 'tech chasing cycle' starts again - he again has 4 options and you have to predict which ones he is gonna use (which makes flubbing a tech theoretically the worst option , because the chaser has two tries to guess right). a wake up attack can be shieldgrabbed, or jumped over and stomped\kneed.

 

[halfDemon]

If the opponent flubbs a tech, I recommend a SHFFLd DAir right away. Pops them up quickly to anything you want, which is most likely the knee. However, at higher percents, just a knee will do. If you want to play it safe, shielding and waiting for the get-up attack and then grabbing is good. You can also dash away and do some DD and just wait for your opponent to do something; I'd give him a good one or one-and-a-half seconds and then DAir/knee if he doesn't do anything by then.

 

[Artistry]

If you're playing against Falco or Fox and you hit them at about 70% with a shffled stomp, you can get a Falcon Punch if they DI the wrong way. Even if they do DI the right way, you could try jumping and doing Falcon Punch in the direction you think they will DI. Devastating...

Edit: If you look up "Knee Justice 2" on YouTube, you can see this.

 

[xelad1]

If you're playing against Falco or Fox and you hit them at about 70% with a shffled stomp, you can get a Falcon Punch if they DI the wrong way. Even if they do DI the right way, you could try jumping and doing Falcon Punch in the direction you think they will DI. Devastating...

Edit: If you look up "Knee Justice 2" on YouTube, you can see this.

thats too sexy for me, I think i should master basic tech chasing first

 

[Bailey]

What I do and see Darc, PC, and Cort do is D-Throw WD back then follow their tech is is easier once you get the hang of it.

 

[Vall3y]

What I do and see Darc, PC, and Cort do is D-Throw WD back then follow their tech is is easier once you get the hang of it.

i see people do something similar to that with marth. they throw and immediately wavedash toward the thrown one, so they'll be as close as possible to him when he techs and can follow him everywhere. to me it seems unnecessary with falcon. how does it make the tech chasing easier?

 

[Thino]

My Falcon have some problems and need some advices too... I have a good grab game against space animals and marths , but when it come to floaties and falcon, I dunno what to do...
vs falcon , I know the uthrow-jab reset then grab or dashgrab again , but I dont know anything else.
for floaties , they DI away from my dthrows, and after uthrows , my only option left are aerials -_-

what should I do?

 

[Vall3y]

you should tech chase falcon just like you do with space animals. usually dairs and fairs to finish them off.
most floaty chars can be re grabbed if they DI away on % low enough, with dthrow that is. im not saying you should chain grab them, instead this is a way to deal with di away. dthrow has lots of comboability, but not much on DI away. an uthrow would be probably better on DI away.
according to the situation, a nair or uair is usually used after a throw. on special %s you throw to knee.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

ya, dthrow on floaties combos marvelously at low %, unless they DI away which screws things up sometimes. Upthrow to knee or a couple upairs and then just edgeguard works.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

Also don't forget that d-smash is a viable option after grabs for punishing techs, since it hits on both sides. Also side-b was like made to tech chase, but it's obviously a lot riskier. Pretty valuable to learn, though, since it sets up so well.

For more on the stomp -> Falcon Punch thing (hella fun), look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evb-V4--Bsk

 

[Thino]

I get all my Raptor Boosts sidestepped ;_; (well like 90% of them , I'm playing humans afer all)

 

[Vall3y]

he was talking about tech chasing with raptor boosts, which covers more than one of his options so its somewhat good.
speaking general raptor boosting... you shouldnt use it too much, so it becomes a surprise approach move no one expects. if they all get side stepped you probably use it too much or too obviously. also, dont just do it to approach if they dont do anything.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

yeah I was talking about tech chasing with it. the only problems I ever have with it is I do it the wrong way >_< or it runs out just out of range of the tech roll >_<'

but yeah other than those uses you should pretty much only use it when you're 95% sure it's gonna connect.

 

[Thino]

hun....thanks. I still trust more tech chasing with grabs , as I don't get punished too violently when I miss

 

[Kimosabae]

This'll probably make some heads explode, but IMO, tech chasing with Falcon is overrated -- especially against Space Animals.

Unless you're Darkrain, I guess.

When facing SAs in particular, Falcon doesn't need chip damage with pvssy tech chases, he needs big damage from reading techs well. Think about it, when tech chasing you need to at least half expect where a player is going to tech to successfully re-grab them, so WHY would you de-optimize your damage potential by settling for grabs? Dair and Fair make much more efficient tech punishers if you ask me.

Falcon needs to kill SAs quickly if he's to have a chance and looking to build damage with grabs does more harm than good IMO. All Falcon needs is one good knee near the edge; he can edgeguard them well enough.

Falcons want to chase Fox and Falco around the stage when he should be trying to kill them. That's why Falcon's lose to them.


-SynikaL

 

[halfDemon]

What are you saying?! Falcon needs to rack up damage on them before delivering the finishing knee, unless your playstyle is to just SHFFL random knees and stomps. >_> Not only does tech chasing raise the damage on the space animal (or any opponent, really), but it puts them in a position you want them to be in, a position which could determine the outcome of the match. Tech chasing is one of the best set ups there is. Say Fox is at 60% on Yoshi's Story, are you just going to throw out forty knees in a row and hope one lands for the stock? No. You have to set them up into it, and what better way than a tech chase? If you noticed your opponent always techs in place after the first throw, predict and punish. If he always rolls behind you, predict and punish. Even ih he doesn't have a set pattern, try to predict and punish. Besides, space animals fall too fast for quite a few combos at lower to mid percents, so tech chasing is probably your best option.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

I can kind of see what he's saying. Falcon's grab game, as great as it is, is fairly weak against space animals at least at low %. What's great about grabbing a Marth at low % is that you can combo him to hell and back out of the grab, but against ****ing fox your options are severly limited.
I would agree that the tech chase stomp should be relied on fairly heavily, as it mostly owns space animals. If they get popped up with it and you're not sure about making the knee connect, dsmash or fsmash work.

 

[Kimosabae]

Cogsmooth gets it. I don't think my explanation was very well articulated.

Once you get inside a fastfaller's head regarding a tech sequence, that character should be dead or at least off the stage within 3 good reads.


-SynikaL

 

[Thino]

SAs grab game is nearly impossible at low %

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

Cogsmooth gets it.

XD too bad my falcon gets mostly ***** still by SA's...

 

[technomancer]

This'll probably make some heads explode, but IMO, tech chasing with Falcon is overrated -- especially against Space Animals.

It's actually essential for getting them past 50% damage, but after that, you really should start trying to land stomps/knees. Remember, the knee ***** Fox and Falco harder than it ***** ANY other character, because they fall halfway below the stage in the hitlag and they are both less than average weight.

I saw this posted elsewhere: "Don't play with your food."

Going for a grab is also alot safer if you're too slow, and you can do it as a reaction as opposed to prediction, and at high percents if you tech-chase with a grab it can lead to a KO combo.

And for god's sake, remember that if they don't DI a stomp or raptor boost at medium percents (alot of people will try to shield this), you can upsmash them and then knee for the hoober *****.

 

[Kimosabae]

It's actually essential for getting them past 50% damage,

No it isn't, peep this scenario.

Say Falco's at zero percent and you land an aerial to grab (around 18-20% damage): you throw him (about 26-28% damage), you read his tech and land a Dair (at this point he's damaged enough for Dair to pop him up), you re-grab, chip and throw him again reading his tech with another Dair; at this point Falco is already at more than 50% and you've only read him twice.

You've got the option to F.Smash, Foward B to Knee, D. Smash and basically get him off stage or at least close to the edge (really should be off stage unless your finishing move connects from the opposite end). If you're really in his head, you can attempt a psuedo chain grab (one or two jabs to re-grab) and try reading him with one more Dair (or a Fair) which will finish him for good.

Basically I've read Falco two times and already fvcked up his day. Meanwhile, your chasing him around the level with grabs, which he's likely to eventually get away from (again, unless you're Darkrain) and start harrassing you with lasers again.

I'm not saying tech chasing isn't a vaild strat. I just think that if Falcons put more effort and confidence into their tech reading abilities, they'd realize they can do more hurt, much faster, giving them more of a fighting change against Space Animals.

They're still a ***** though.

-SynikaL

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

No it isn't, peep this scenario.

Say Falco's at zero percent and you land an aerial to grab (around 18-20% damage): you throw him (about 26-28% damage), you read his tech and land a Dair (at this point he's damaged enough for Dair to pop him up), you re-grab, chip and throw him again reading his tech with another Dair; at this point Falco is already at more than 50% and you've only read him twice.

Umm reading a tech perfectly even twice would certainly count.

how to read a space animal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ayp7DdTZwc&mode=related&search=

 

[Vall3y]

i think everyone are confusing the terms.
tech chasing is following a tech into some kind of attack.
on space animals, everything (you will use nair\dair mostly) leads to tech chasing (expect for low %s where nairs lead to grabs) and you should tech chase at every opportunity
i figure what syn is saying is that tech chasing with grabs is a waste. i agree with this, but not completely as when done once it helps you learn the teching habit and is usually harder to get out of (people usually shield after a tech, atleast for the first time).
when you have a good idea where he is gonna tech, you should use your heavy guns, and not a grab that will lead to more tech chasing.

 

[Kimosabae]

As I said before, I know I'm not articulating this the best, which is why there seems to be confusion.

Cogsmooch, I don't see what the point of that post is.

Valley:

"i figure what syn is saying is that tech chasing with grabs is a waste. "

That's basically it. I do agree that tech chasing with grabs can help you in finding a tech pattern, but I feel that if you're a player with enough high level experience, you should have a general idea of how certain players think in any given situation -- being able to size up your opponent before the match even starts helps a lot. The key thing to remember, is that no player thinks completely originally when subjected to the tech metagame. A less experienced player's tech habits are different from a high level one's and there's still the habits of every player inbetween, but with enough experience you can stereotype a player quickly.

Knowing your opponent's skill/experience level, paying attention to the stage/enviroment, making mental notes of what kind of techs people like to use after getting hit by certain moves, knowing when a player has the option to think clearly about how he wants to tech and when he doesn't; all help in eliminating what I consider the tedium of chasing people around the stage with grabs.

But that's just me. Like I said, tech chasing with grabs is still a valid strat.


-SynikaL

 

[irealyhatepozers]

you guys are deep. it seems like darkrain can wait and sort of react to the type of tech, cuz he's right so often. he's not actually doing that is he?

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

I'm pretty sure Darkrain just has superpowers.

 

[xelad1]

I'm pretty sure Darkrain just has superpowers.

I'm pretty sure that's completely right, nice sig btw.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

I'm pretty sure that's completely right, nice sig btw.

tanx. Banks made it.

 

[go2chutch]

dash dancing next to the fallen opponent works well but either keep out of range of his ground attack or be prepared to jump when you recognize the animation. imo there are three types of tech chases all dependant on when you reach your opponent. if you get there at just the right time a stomp or knee is aplicable, if your alittle later and he can just barely get up a shield you should probably grab because sheilding is his fastest option. the third is noticing a habit after their tech, and your only going to do this if you reach him very late. when i flub a tech chase on my friend his usual reaction is to shield and if hes able to he'll air dodge. ive began to get used to running up to him, feign the grab and instead short hop stomp to catch him right after the dodge.

 

[xelad1]

Well my friend is better than me and has some decent tourney experience and he said learning to techchase improved his game alot. I've been practicing it with him lately and I've been getting better at recognizing (and keeping a mental record) of patters and guessing techs, flubbed techs etc.... this concept just seemed so impossible at first but I guess it just comes with more experience eh?