Team SD 1v1 vids-Help us get in shape for *pound*2!(mains are roy and fox)

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Rebel and I decided to really get back into smash(lately we've just been playing FFAs with friends) and we played a lot last wednesday (that's right, the true nerd games on valentines day), and i made some vids.

I added music to all of them, so I hope you share at least some of my tastes.

Also, a word of caution. You're going to see us make lots of ******** mistakes. Among them, suiciding at 0% and firefoxing and a3/4 charged flare blade. But what else can you expect from Team SD?

One more thing. We don't need comments on stupid stuff like our SDs, screwed up L-cancels or WDs and the like. I for one spent alot of matches practicing Wavelanding and in numerous cases airdodged off a platform, which Rebel mercilessly took advantage of. We'd like thoughtful help and criticism so that we can get our gameplay top performance level for June(*pound* 2 with TA). We can get techskill down ourselves.

One more thing. In the Fox ditto matches, I need help. Not rebel. He doesn't care about fox. I just picked up fox, and I'd like to main him. So please no "lol he beat you with your main l00zer" comments.

Gah! Also, if you're only planning on watching a couple vids, watch the later fox vs. Roy ones. We do a lot better in those(later is at the bottom, not top).

so w/o further adieu and johns, ChRed2AKrisp vs. Rebel581!

Roy vs. Fox

ChRed(Fox) vs. Rebel581(Roy)
ChRed(Fox) vs. Rebel581(Roy)

ChRed(Fox) vs. Rebel581(Roy)
^^OMG I can't believe I won that!

ChRed(Fox) vs. Rebel581(Roy)
ChRed(Fox) vs. Rebel581(Roy)
ChRed(Fox) vs. Rebel581(Roy)

Fox ditto

ChRed(Fox) vs. Rebel581(Red Fox)
ChRed(Fox) vs. Rebel581(Red Fox)

Falcon vs. Ganon

ChRed(Ganon) vs. Rebel581(Falcon) 1
ChRed(Ganon) vs. Rebel581(Falcon) 2
ChRed(Ganon) vs. Rebel581(Falcon) 3
Yay, so constructive comments and no tech skill tips are needed!

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

c'mon people, I put alot of effort into editing these an uploading, i'd appreciate it if we got some kind of feed back. why is something called "rate my peach from 1 to 10" gets 4 responses and about 70 views in the time it takes for mine to get 19 views and 0 responses? if i don't get any feedback, I'm not gonna bother posting the rest of the vids and hope we can better by ourselves.

 

[ElfenLiedPeach]

Okay, first off...
Fox ditto 1 - *pound* for putting in this song. NIN ftw.
Kay, now that I got that out of my system...on to the match.

-If you see your opponent going for a ledgehog, forget sweetspotting. Just try to put yourself in position to avoid any ledgehopped attacks and get safely back to the stage. (i.e. around 1:48, he was clearly on the ledge, but you went for phantasm sweetspot)

-You had a nice shinespike around 2:23, but remember that Fox's edgeguarding game is more versatile than just the shine. If you get predictable trying to shinespike for all edgeguards, it will fail before long. Try edgehogs, ledgehopped bairs, dsmash, downward angled ftilts, nairs, or if they're at decent percents and you want to look evil, even a uair can work when randomly mixed it.

-Your chaingrabbing can use a bit of work, and that can make or break some intense fox dittos. If you see that he's DIing behind you, do whatever you can to get in position to grab. If he DI's forward, make sure to land that JC grab. Usmash, uair, bair, and nair are all good coming off the grab, just keep true to following his DI.

-Your spacing could use a little tweaking, but it wasn't too bad.

-Your fox could use a bit of speeding up, but like you said, you can handle the tech skill. speed comes with solid tech skill. Just make sure to not play mindless when playing at top speed thinking that it'll just blaze through everything.

good luck! I might edit as I watch a few more matches.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Yeah, I shouldn't keep going for shine spikes, sometimes I get them, but it doesn't work a lot of the time. Thanks!

this is weird, i wanted to refernce to the times you put down, but now the first fox ditto won't play, even though in my account it says status: Live, it's acting like I just uploaded it.

weird.

 

[thatsmybutta]

Yeah, I shouldn't keep going for shine spikes, sometimes I get them, but it doesn't work a lot of the time. Thanks!

this is weird, i wanted to refernce to the times you put down, but now the first fox ditto won't play, even though in my account it says status: Live, it's acting like I just uploaded it.

weird.

dont be such a baby its not our fault your videos arent really interesting

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Dude, half the point of the vid forum is to get HELP. Like I already said, I wanted HELP. There are people who are kind and HELP other people, and then there are people like you who just go to the most popular vids or really good pros, say how much you like them, and leave. If you HELP, then we get BETTER. Then our vids become interesting.

and as a side note, what does what you quoted have to do with what you said? You should have quoted the second post. If you can explain how me saying it's weird that the vid wouldn't show indicates that the vids are boring and I'm being a baby, I'd appreciate that.

anyways, to make things less confusing i've gotten rid of the non-essential vids. You can still see them through my youtube account.

 

[Winston]

I think you have the bad luck to have vids featuring a roy and a non big-name fox. The recording quality is great, and the skill is pretty good.

Any other low tier has its forum champions (I'm thinking yoshi, ness, bowser, mewtwo, pichu especially), so normally you could just post in the char specific and get tons of feedback, but the most active roy poster that knows what he's talking about basically tells people to stop being noobs. It's tough being a roy =(

Sorry for the post devoid of play advice, but just giving you a free bump, and letting you know that you deserve responses.

 

[Rebel581]

Team SD 1v1 vids-Help us get in shape for *pound*2!(mains are roy and fox)

Where did the us come from?

And told you we sucked, ChRed, that's why nobody is posting. Uploading that many vids at one time is stupid and pointless. It just makes archiving them later that much harder.

And yea, I don't post anymore. If I'm not going to compete in tournaments, I'm not going to come and give n00bs advice when I feel like I'm not even good myself. I suck at edgeguarding. How can a Roy suck at edgeguarding?

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

You're such a *******. If we suck, post vids to get help. and didn't you read Gustav's post?

 

[Rebel581]

You're such a *******. If we suck, post vids to get help. and didn't you read Gustav's post?

I ignore things that contradict what I say. Especially if it contradicts something I'm saying to piss you off.

And when did I want help? I'm not a n00b. I know how to play fighting games and I know Roy's moveset and limitations better than a far majority of Roy players. If I took the time to break some bad habits I could easily become better. I don't need people telling me what to do to get better when I know what to do. A far majority of the time, I just need to see myself playing any character to see what I'm doing wrong. Only scrubs need others to tell them what to do when they've got the video footage in front of them.

 

[Oskurito]

I watched the first match (fox vs. roy). Your tech skill was fine I guess, maybe you want to practice waveshining because I only saw 3 and some of them missed, or full jump canceled, also you may want to learn to DI Roy's Uthrow, that should help you. Apart from that your tech skill in general was decent.

I also watched the first match of your Fox ditto. I recommend you to learn how to DI fox's Uthrow and don't spam sex kicks like crazy, spam lasers instead and grab more. You were attacking your opponent in a blind haste and you didn't take your time to plan an strategy that's the reason why you lost.

 

[Rebel581]

I just want to say, waveshining against a Roy seems useless to me. Fox's shine combos don't work on Roy. That doesn't stop him from having a bunch of nasty **** he can do, but waveshine combos aren't one of them.

 

[ElfenLiedPeach]

And told you we sucked, ChRed, that's why nobody is posting. Uploading that many vids at one time is stupid and pointless. It just makes archiving them later that much harder.

And yea, I don't post anymore. If I'm not going to compete in tournaments, I'm not going to come and give n00bs advice when I feel like I'm not even good myself. I suck at edgeguarding. How can a Roy suck at edgeguarding?

You're being too negative.

I ignore things that contradict what I say. Especially if it contradicts something I'm saying to piss you off.

And when did I want help? I'm not a n00b. I know how to play fighting games and I know Roy's moveset and limitations better than a far majority of Roy players. If I took the time to break some bad habits I could easily become better. I don't need people telling me what to do to get better when I know what to do. A far majority of the time, I just need to see myself playing any character to see what I'm doing wrong. Only scrubs need others to tell them what to do when they've got the video footage in front of them.

And perhaps a little bogged down with the attitude. I'm not going to question you; I haven't played you, I don't know you, and I probably never will. However, as you say, you only need to see yourself playing a character to see what you're doing wrong. Personally, I think multipule viewpoints do help people.

Also, the scrub comment is a little uncalled for in my opinion. If things work and you win a match, things seem to be going pretty well. Sure, there are the "I shouldn't have done this stuff here," or "I jumped into that", or "I do this a lot", but if you're still winning, they can appear to be minor oversights. Wanting guidance from all different varieties of players in no way, shape, or form makes you a scrub. And if ChRed, who beat you in all of those fights I watched, is a scrub, then I, sir, do not have a definition for you at the moment.

Though you may feel that you don't need any outside help, I'm going to keep this on topic and analyze these matches to a much fuller extent than my first post so I can try to help. I know what I said above is a little hostile, but I don't want to start a flame war or anything, so...I'll just get to work on this.

To give you an idea of how much time this is taking me: It is 5:40 according to my computer clock right now...

Link 1 (Battlefield, labeled match 5)

- DI the uthrow a lot more. Lucky for you he didn't spam uthrow -> uair so much, otherwise this might have become very prevalent. I noticed this in most of the matches, so I'll tally this up in each section. Times he threw you up: 2 Times you had little to no DI: 2 Times he hit the uair out of that throw: 1
- Fox was too predictable with his approach and needs to mix it up on edgeguarding. He has more than one option in both of these areas, yet he tends to stay with almost exlusively nair appraoch and shine edgeguard.
- I think you need to grab and CT more. I realize that platforms can hinder this, but it is still an important thing to take advantage of, not only against fox, but against all fast fallers. Uthrow -> fsmash is good though.
- You probably know this, but Roy can't effectively utilt juggle after a uthrow like marth does. (you tried this at :22)
- You were predictable getting up from the edge this time, and on occassion, fox punished your for it. A better fox would've hit you harder and more often. Times you got up from the edge: 6. Times you rolled back on to the stage: 6.
- Does fox know about thunder's combo (waveshine -> jab reset -> whatever) against people that hit the floor when shined?
- You were good at being unpredictable with the counter, except it was in the wrong place pretty much every time you did it. This means free hits for the opponent.
- You did a nice job avoiding shinespikes until the last stock in this particular match.
- I'll leave the rest of the stuff in this match for you to find since you don't really need it.

Link 2 (Battlefield, labeled match 6)

- Fox uthrows: 1 No DI on throw: 1 uairs hit out of uthrow: 0
- I'm not quite sure what was different this time, but his shinespikes were pretty high percentage even though he was predictable with them (3/5).
- I noticed you were missing a few fast falls, but that isn't extremely crucial.
- Otherwise i felt you had a much more dominant fight.

Link 3 (Yoshi's Story, labeled match 7)

- lol, no uthrows ^_^
- Note for Fox, don't bother trying to be flashy with wavelands and crap between stocks. It can put you in a bad position, and even cause you to SD. Not to mention, missing one right when the other player comes back can result in a free hit.
- You had the match in the bag >_> I did notice you were kind of spamming counter a bit to finish that last stock of his. I find people are a lot more cautious when they're hanging by a thread, I wouldn't expect to hit with counter unless their being either REALLY agressive, or unbearably predictable.
- I don't like pointing out the specific "if i had done this different i would've won" things, but you had that edgehog at 2:28

Link 4 (Pokemon Stadium, match 8)

- lol, no uthrows again. Fox has to uthrow more ^_^
- I've probably watched these matches more than my own by now >_>, but I'm really starting to think with Fox's predictability you could land quite a few shield grabs, which means nice, easy damage.
- You seem to be jumping right into the shinespikes. He jumps after you, anticipates the second jump, and WHAM! Now, I know Roy doesn't have great horizontal recovery, but try to mix up the trajectory of your second jump when you can.
- To work to your advantage with edgeguarding, your charging the flare blade seems to always make him go for the platform. If you can influence the timing or space it right, you can punish him just for knowing where he's heading.
- Note for ChRed, I've heard this song before and now it's really starting to bug me that I can't remember what it is. Tell me what it is?

Link 5 (Dreamland 64, match 9)

- Fox uthrows: 2 No DI on uthrow: 2 uairs hit from uthrow: 1
- okay, props for staying in this match, he was ****** you early on.
- Too jumpy for uthrow, fsmash at 1:47. Make sure you know what percents this will work at. Otherwise, just chainthrow him.
- personal note: I'm getting pretty lazy after spending so much time on this >_>

Link 6 (FD, match 10)

- Fox uthrows: 4 No DI on throw: 3 uairs hit from uthrow: 2
- Really nice ledgehopped counter edgeguard at 1:19
- shinespikes were negligable because all of them were hit when you were already good for dead anyway.

Final notes:
- Your Roy isn't bad, but most of your issues lie in DI and your mental game. That you really can't get much guidance with. Spacing could use a little tweaking too.
- Fox needs to work on his predictability issues, especially with edgeguarding.
- Fox, you don't always have to attack Roy, or any other character that has no projectiles for that matter. Just move around with DD, WD, empty short hops, etc. and take advantage of them approaching you. You can always use the lasers to force them to come to you.

Maybe if I can regain focus later I'll add something else. It's now 7:07 on my CPU clock, my only break from repeated watching and taking notes was a five minute phone call...so yeah, that was a little much >_<. Even if you feel it didn't help you, at least know that some of us will even take the time to help people who are being kind of jerkish

 

[virtualgamecafe]

my comment is at the first video link

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

ELP, the song in Link 4 is Question by System of a Down, album is Mesmerize.

'^_^ you really outdid yourself with those comments.
Thanks SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO*cough**eep**gasp* much!

and yes, Rebel tends to be pessimistic when it comes to smash. If he whines, he loses. I, on the other hand, complain more when I win. It seems God has to prove me wrong, so the more I whine the better I do.

 

[CWolf20]

A couple general things for the fox.

1) Vary your approach. You almost always approach with shffl nair. Throw in some full hopped drill shines, grabs, etc. You're fox, you have a lot of options.

2) U-throw to Uair is your best friend against pretty much everything. Use your speed to get a few grabs and punish with them.

3) As stated before, you're using the same 3 chunks over and over. Nairs to shine, wavedash a bunch and throwing out a smash, and edgeguarding with shinespikes. While most of these things are very useful, they need to be spread amongst other plays to vary things up a bit. You're very predictable.

As far as Roy goes, I can't help you. I know nothing about him.

 

[ElfenLiedPeach]

ELP, the song in Link 4 is Question by System of a Down, album is Mesmerize.

'^_^ you really outdid yourself with those comments.
Thanks SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO*cough**eep**gasp* much!

and yes, Rebel tends to be pessimistic when it comes to smash. If he whines, he loses. I, on the other hand, complain more when I win. It seems God has to prove me wrong, so the more I whine the better I do.

aha! I knew I'd heard that song before. I was thinking SOAD just based on the sound of the vocals, but the song name wasn't coming to me at all. That's one little annoyance out of my mind (i can't stand having a song played over and over and not knowing what it was called ^_^ )

I don't think I really outdid myself there. I mean, it took a while, but I don't play Roy at all, so I couldn't really get too specific (I'd expect a Roy player to know much more about Roy's physics, combos, moves, etc that I do). I was just saying it as I saw it.

You're welcome though ^_^

 

[captainlukey]

thats dedication rite there ELP....
you should be a smash debator.......

 

[dvt]

ur friend is a whiney little kid

 

[gkrackerr]

props to ELP ( for fantastic posts) and as for ChRed, you have very good skills, but just as people have been saying, your approach could use some work, but still, good fox. That's really the main things that i noticed when watching your first, second, third (fox vids), and the first captain falcon/ganon (good ganon btw) video.

With falcon (this comment is for your friend), I play him personally (not like dark rain/isai/others, but im still decent with him), and I think, this is only my opinion, that you should abuse falcons speed for things besides comboing. That last comment might have seemed noobish, but throughout the first video of CFvsGanon, the only thing that i noticed you using as a mindgame was you running then wavedashing back. Nooooo. CF has the best dash dance in the game, abuse it. Ehh, done with my rant, sorry if i hurt any feelings.

 

[ElfenLiedPeach]

thats dedication rite there ELP....
you should be a smash debator.......

lol, thanks

I thought about it, but I'm too lazy to write the entry essay >_>

I hope you've improved your fox after a month, ChRed ^_^ Maybe give us a new vid with a less predictable fox? Either way, good luck at *pound*2 (I wish I could drive to VA, their smashing is too good >_<)

 

[knightpraetor]

what the hell VA has smashing? where are these phantom tournies..i should go to one sometime...on another note..i didn't more than glance at the videos to check over ELP's comments..but shieldgrabbing a fox..i can't picture that happening much..is he missing shines? or do you mean lightshield to be pushed back enough to avoid the shine? i heard that was possible but haven't incorporated it yet

you also told roy he was being predictable in his getting on from a ledgehang but didn't mention his other options..he probably knows this, but just in case..you can of course fair or upair on, nair is possible (but took me a while to learn to do...hard to do with roy)...as well as wavedash on to jab or roll or whatever...you can stand up and then buffer a spot dodge or roll using the C-stick..air dodge on..just don't stick to only rollons and stand ups..the faster characters tend to be able to punish such really easily as they can respace if they see you roll on..or dash in and grab or a host of other things..attacking on of course isn't very useful unless they are edgeguarding too closely


i watched matches 5 and 6..unfortunately i am not a roy player..he is probably in my bottom half of the cast...

there are a few places where you should have gone for a grab or aerial because they were going to have time to land and shield before you got off the smash..and maybe mix up the edgeguarding a little more?...ftilt and even dtilt to pop them up aren't bad either if you don't have time to get in position for the counter..definitely need to punish fox more for recovering high..counter will take care of him trying to go straight at you..so if he goes up just time a regrab or a CC fsmash before he lands...a little harder on platforms stages..just take your nair or whatever you can get

overall your roy isn't bad..i would pick up a higher tier char honestly though..your friend hasn't gotten to high level mind games yet, but he will get there..the only way you will continue to be able to compete is if you pick up chaingrabbing at the least and hopefully marth instead..if you are going to keep on with roy though..i can't really give too much advice as most of the comboes that i like don't happen with roy..watch some neo or adhd or reed maybe? i don't know many roys though..not that compete with a decent fox...personally i play falco, fox, falcon, marth, and sheik..it's good to have a variety of char to counterpick with.

Good counterpicks for vs fox..Falco and sheik are even, i'd say marth has the advantage..and falcon gets ***** so don't try him

as a general rule friends should play close to equal tier i think..